Ronald Koeman

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Newty82 said:

And yet Rooney' s average pass length is 19metres (77% success), while Ganas is 17 metres (90% success) this season so far.

That's not a lot of difference in pass length gents. But Rooney sprays it all over the park, continous 60 yard (55 metre!) passes, while Gana only passes it a few feet???? C'mon, it's clearly not a balanced opinion.

And by the way, I don't perceive Gana to be some sort of worldie player, and I don't think many do, but those who spit at the mention of his name are so wide of the mark and it's become real easy to see.

Any one can pass a ball 20 yards back to the defence. He rarely goes forward, so 10% of those easy passes he's giving up. I'd argue he fucking up most passes as the quality of them is dreadful. 

[rubecula]

back on topic,  what has Koeman done for us that is so good apart from spending a lot of money on players that seem so-so

[pete0]

59 minutes ago, rubecula said:

back on topic,  what has Koeman done for us that is so good apart from spending a lot of money on players that seem so-so

Spoke frankly but even that has dimmed as he coming out with Martinez-like excuses. 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, rubecula said:

back on topic,  what has Koeman done for us that is so good apart from spending a lot of money on players that seem so-so

Qualified us for Europe.

Got rid of dead wood and bought in better quality players.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Hope you're not gender stereotyping his penis size.

You honky 5 incher you

[Bailey]

8 hours ago, Newty82 said:

The reason I brought up Rooney is because you mentioned that Gana can't pass or have away a few few yard passes. You guys who have a bone to grind over Gana continuously say that he can't pass.

Watching on Sunday, it was evident that Rooney was giving away several balls. I mentioned something similar in the match thread. He was playing 'well' but giving it away too much...including a few few yard passes.

For the United game, Rooneys pass success rate was a whopping 67%, Ganas was 90%. Both included forward, backward, sideways, long and short passes.

It was also interesting that against Atalanta, the much coveted Gana replacement, Besic, had an absolute mare. But that wasn't mentioned. 

And that's my point. You gents who watch us and have a disliking for Gana seem to focus so much on him, waiting for a mistake, that you must actually miss a lot of the game. I can't watch footy like that, each new game is exactly that, a new game. You's must drive yourselves nuts during a game.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, of course, but it's blatantly not a balanced opinion when it comes to Gana.

You stick Gana up front and his passing stats would be in the 20s (as would plenty other players).

[Newty82]

4 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Qualified us for Europe.

Got rid of dead wood and bought in better quality players.

No no no...only the first 5 league games of this season counts!!!

[Newty82]

2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You stick Gana up front and his passing stats would be in the 20s (as would plenty other players).

Yeah and put a Formula 1 car on a rally track and it will crash.

[London Blue]

3 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

No no no...only the first 5 league games of this season counts!!!

Sorry I totally forgot, you are right, we are headless chickens now so only the last 5 games count.

In which case Koeman out, lets get Martinez back as he has been so good with Belgum in their last 5 games. 

Lets sell Gana, and Morgan and get Stokes midfielders Fletcher and Allen.

Good grief.

[Bailey]

15 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Yeah and put a Formula 1 car on a rally track and it will crash.

Exactly so comparing Rooney and Gana is futile. 

[Palfy]

28 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Qualified us for Europe.

Got rid of dead wood and bought in better quality players.

Very debatable on quality players as we haven't seen much quality to date, and I wouldn't call Deulefeu and Lukaku dead wood.

He's turning out to be very lacking in ideas and can't seem to inspire the players he brought to do the job he wants, now is that because he brought in the wrong players, or because they aren't in tune with what he is wanting done, either way he is responsible it's his team, and the one thing that the team seem to have inherited from him is a lack of passion and will to win, we need a Mourinho or Klopp someone who shows passion and a desire an inspiration to the players so that they want to please there manager, not worry if he's gonna make them next scapegoat to cover his own inadequacies.

It's time to seriously think about getting rid no more money he can't be trusted.

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

It's time to seriously think about getting rid no more money he can't be trusted.

He can't spend any more money until January anyway and if we're still bottom half by then a lot of people will agree with you. It's just madness to consider ditching him now, however if (for example) we lose the next four home games I'll be at the front of the lynching party alongside you with a pitchfork and some sturdy cordage.

[London Blue]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Very debatable on quality players as we haven't seen much quality to date, and I wouldn't call Deulefeu and Lukaku dead wood.

He's turning out to be very lacking in ideas and can't seem to inspire the players he brought to do the job he wants, now is that because he brought in the wrong players, or because they aren't in tune with what he is wanting done, either way he is responsible it's his team, and the one thing that the team seem to have inherited from him is a lack of passion and will to win, we need a Mourinho or Klopp someone who shows passion and a desire an inspiration to the players so that they want to please there manager, not worry if he's gonna make them next scapegoat to cover his own inadequacies.

It's time to seriously think about getting rid no more money he can't be trusted.

Lulaku left because he wanted to despite Koemans efforts to keep him.

Gerri was all flash and no delivery, I wanted him to succeed here so much but it was never going to happen.

He did get rid of Cleverley, Mcgeady, Gibson and Oviedo. 

As I and others have said, we have had a tough start to the season, as well as adapting to life after Lukaku, this all takes time, so lets give him and the team some.

[nogs]

11 hours ago, pete0 said:

Rooney played well. Main issue was no one being near him. You can see the intent with a misplaced pass from Rooney the quality is there. Just because a pass makes it to a player doesn't mean it's any good. What opportunities is the receiving player getting from a ball from Gana? They have to control it from a difficult angle/wrong foot, break stride or often stop completely to get the ball under control losing all momentum. More often than not the ball is then passed backwards or straight back to him. He's the main reason we struggle to make a forward pass. 

Rooney made a few shocking passes when it was easier to hit his own team mate than give the ball away. I don't think Gana is great with the ball, and playing him alongside Schneiderlin is asking for trouble coz neither is he. But you can't make blatant excuses for one player like that. Use of the ball throughout was very poor, as was general movement off the ball.

[rubecula]

5 hours ago, London Blue said:

Qualified us for Europe.

Got rid of dead wood and bought in better quality players.

not the first to get us into Europe and will not be the last.  Winning the trophy would be nice, but after Atalanta it is not looking very likely is it?

get rid of dead wood but the players he brought in are not good players either

[pete0]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

Rooney made a few shocking passes when it was easier to hit his own team mate than give the ball away. I don't think Gana is great with the ball, and playing him alongside Schneiderlin is asking for trouble coz neither is he. But you can't make blatant excuses for one player like that. Use of the ball throughout was very poor, as was general movement off the ball.

You're comparing one off missplaced passes to someone who is consistently shite at them. There is a huge difference in the quality and differculty of the passes. Rooney missplacing the odd pass does not in anyway justify the less than ametuer offerings from Gana. 

[sydneyneil]

Watch the game again on Saturday (if you can put yourself through it!) and watch how many times Rooney gave the ball away when it was an easy pass. I'm not buying the "difficult pass" thing. Seriously, Rooney was dropping deep and still giving simple balls away, I was screaming at the TV. Im not getting on to Gana, completely different things expected of him. However, Rooney is supposed to be the one providing the quality and any number 10, centre forward, whatever you want to call him, who has a pass completion rate of 67% in the PL is poor. He'd have been dragged off at any of the top clubs in the league. Yes, he can provide a goal and he's better than what we've got so he has to play. But as I said, he wouldn't get into any of the Top 6 sides whilst continuously giving the ball away. That's where we're trying be right??????????

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, sydneyneil said:

Watch the game again on Saturday (if you can put yourself through it!) and watch how many times Rooney gave the ball away when it was an easy pass. I'm not buying the "difficult pass" thing. Seriously, Rooney was dropping deep and still giving simple balls away, I was screaming at the TV. Im not getting on to Gana, completely different things expected of him. However, Rooney is supposed to be the one providing the quality and any number 10, centre forward, whatever you want to call him, who has a pass completion rate of 67% in the PL is poor. He'd have been dragged off at any of the top clubs in the league. Yes, he can provide a goal and he's better than what we've got so he has to play. But as I said, he wouldn't get into any of the Top 6 sides whilst continuously giving the ball away. That's where we're trying be right??????????

Watched again last night. It's crazy what you miss when your engulfed with rage watching us.

I see nobody mentioned Baines switching off again back post for lukaku goal. If he's gonna give us less going forward then he's got to give us more at the back.

[Bill]

Rooney never gave simple balls away, it was taken from him by one of the three defenders who surrounded him because nobody else was anywhere near him to help out.  Utds defenders had a very easy day because our midfielders where all playing on the edge of our own penalty area, Davies was the only one to get up and help him.

[London Blue]

12 hours ago, rubecula said:

not the first to get us into Europe and will not be the last.  Winning the trophy would be nice, but after Atalanta it is not looking very likely is it?

get rid of dead wood but the players he brought in are not good players either

For the 952 time, you can't accurately judge new players after a handful of matches.

[rubecula]

true  but why not judge the performances.

[Newty82]

19 hours ago, Bailey said:

Exactly so comparing Rooney and Gana is futile. 

But I wasn't comparing them. If you think that then the context of the posts has been lost on you, or you haven't read them in their entirety to get the point that was being made, which was solely about negative bias towards a player of your choosing...can be any player, just that Gana is the hot topic just now.

[nogs]

15 hours ago, pete0 said:

You're comparing one off missplaced passes to someone who is consistently shite at them. There is a huge difference in the quality and differculty of the passes. Rooney missplacing the odd pass does not in anyway justify the less than ametuer offerings from Gana. 

And neither does the fact that you think Gana is shite excuse Rooney being shoddy in possession. And I stand by what I said originally - he wasn't trying worldie through balls that would have taken out three defenders and put the last man in every time. He played some very basic passes very badly. I thought the overall quality of our passing was dreadful on Sunday. There's no point picking out individuals, it was a team problem and they all have to carry the can, including Koeman for whatever he is doing on the training pitch.

Just on the 'odd misplaced pass which would have been great had it come off' argument - isn't that what Barkley gets slated for every match?

 

[Trigger]

10 minutes ago, nogs said:

And neither does the fact that you think Gana is shite excuse Rooney being shoddy in possession. And I stand by what I said originally - he wasn't trying worldie through balls that would have taken out three defenders and put the last man in every time. He played some very basic passes very badly. I thought the overall quality of our passing was dreadful on Sunday. There's no point picking out individuals, it was a team problem and they all have to carry the can, including Koeman for whatever he is doing on the training pitch.

Just on the 'odd misplaced pass which would have been great had it come off' argument - isn't that what Barkley gets slated for every match?

 

The issue to me is. We now have many players that are capable of playing a great final ball, but not enough players able to provide movement to create and move into space intelligently in the final 3rd. We then always get caught on the ball trying to pass to a load of static players. It looks like this is simple misplaced passes but I think its beause everyone off the ball is too easy to mark giving whoever it is on the ball no options, so ends up giving it away.

[Shukes]

4 hours ago, rubecula said:

true  but why not judge the performances.

Surely that deserves a ....

BOOM!

[London Blue]

5 hours ago, London Blue said:

For the 952 time, you can't accurately judge new players after a handful of matches.

 

5 hours ago, rubecula said:

true  but why not judge the performances.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

And neither does the fact that you think Gana is shite excuse Rooney being shoddy in possession. And I stand by what I said originally - he wasn't trying worldie through balls that would have taken out three defenders and put the last man in every time. He played some very basic passes very badly. I thought the overall quality of our passing was dreadful on Sunday. There's no point picking out individuals, it was a team problem and they all have to carry the can, including Koeman for whatever he is doing on the training pitch.

Just on the 'odd misplaced pass which would have been great had it come off' argument - isn't that what Barkley gets slated for every match?

 

I moan Barkley doesn't try them through balls. I'd be happy if he did, it'd have an adverse effect on his stats but so what. Gana should have a higher pass % as he plays further back.

I don't even know what your point is here, are you saying it doesn't matter what position you're in passing % should be the same? 

[Shukes]

LB, professional players should be able to do the basics in any team. I played for about ten teams through my career and managed to work hard from the start in each team.

these guys aren't new to football, they have made a career out of it. 

Systems need time to adjust. Hard work is just that, hard work. You don't need training or telling how to do it. Our performances have lacked drive from the new boys. It's not their general ability or how they fit I to a team that is under question, but rather their desire to make things work.

[rubecula]

49 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Surely that deserves a ....

BOOM!

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

LB, professional players should be able to do the basics in any team. I played for about ten teams through my career and managed to work hard from the start in each team.

these guys aren't new to football, they have made a career out of it. 

Systems need time to adjust. Hard work is just that, hard work. You don't need training or telling how to do it. Our performances have lacked drive from the new boys. It's not their general ability or how they fit I to a team that is under question, but rather their desire to make things work.

Shukes mate, I take my hat of to you for playing football for so long, and no doubt you have a different perspective on things due to this. Your right there is no excuse for not putting effort. The new players I have seen have been putting an effort in, its just they have not seemed that they know what they are doing and what their role is. That will come with time and experience, especially once we adapt to life without Lukaku.