Brexit...

[MikeO]

Someone's voted "leave" in the poll today .

[Louis]

To those eligible for a non-GB EU passport, will you apply for it on the back of the result of this referendum to leave?

 

I saw that the Liverpool Echo are encouraging people to apply for Irish passports.

[johnh]

anyone care to describe each of the potential successors?

 

Boris Johnson

Theresa May

Michael Gove

 

what are they like?

 

Theresa May is my constituency MP. She is a brilliant constituency MP, works extremely hard supporting local causes. Every week the local paper will have several pictures of her involved in good causes. She must have very little private life. Not too sure about her performance as Home Secretary though. She supported 'remain' but was very low key and kept out of the Cameron/Osborne crap.

She will be a strong leadership contender and in my opinion just edges it over the other two.

[Cornish Steve]

The article in the Telegraph makes some key points: It was more about democracy and economy than about immigration. Plus, call the electorate stupid at your own peril.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/this-was-the-day-the-british-people-defied-their-jailers/

[holystove]

I, for one, am extremely proud that the British public decided to be brave and take control of their own destiny. I'll be even prouder if it comes to pass that our bravery gave other countries the courage to ask for change as well. And that won't half fly in the face of the claims that Brexit would diminish our influence. Effecting monumental change across Europe? I think that's pretty influential myself.

 

I must say I'm loving that this result has got politicians scrambling round as it dawns on them that the people put them where they are and they damn well tear them right back down.

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.

It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

[markjazzbassist]

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.

It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

 

facists are people too...............................sorry just trolling

Edited June 24, 2016 by markjazzbassist

[Romey 1878]

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.

It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

Still very proud .

[Steve_E]

Might be important to keep in mind that the only ones from the continent congratulating you are Le Pen, Wilders, Lega Nord, Orban.. Not one mainstream party has said that a Brexit is a good thing.

It's OK to be proud of your victory, but patting yourself on the back for having united the facsists of Europe is taking it a step to far for me.

 

Adding on to this, the Belgian party congratulating the British on this vote are Vlaams Belang, who were once forced to alter their party programme after being convicted of racism in court.

[MikeO]

Extreme right wing is on the rise everywhere it seems; scares the crap out of me.

[Matt]

Extreme right wing is on the rise everywhere it seems; scares the crap out of me.

yip, and the U.K. just opened the door for them.

[holystove]

Interesting demographics

Under 50 in - over 50 out
Employed in - unemployed/retired out
Educated in - no higher education out

Just heard it on the news. Looking for source

[Romey 1878]

Oh and Holystove? Next time don't twist my words. My post was about uniting the people, not political parties, fascist or otherwise. My post was actually a fuck you to political parties.

[Steve_E]

Haha, wow, just saw Nigel Farage's comments about that 350m transfer from the EU to the NHS. He's not wasting time. Weren't the parties campaigning for a Brexit the neoliberal ones and did people actually believe they were advocating a Brexit to save publically funded healthcare? ​

[holystove]

Don't think I was twisting your words. You said you hoped your Brexit influenced other countries to also choose to quit the EU. I replied that such a message is only being picked up by the far-right-wing parties, who are uniting behind quitting the EU.

Also don't see how each country reverting back unto itself has anything to do with uniting people.

 

I think it's a bad evolution that people feel the need to say fuck you to (mainstream) political parties; it pushes them to extremists such as UKIP, FN, AfD, PVV, Vlaams Belang on the right, and to the communists on the left.

Trump is also riding the fuck-you establishment wave, with terms like "take your country back", and "make your country great again".

[Steve_E]

Don't think I was twisting your words. You said you hoped your Brexit influenced other countries to also choose to quit the EU. I replied that such a message is only being picked up by the far-right-wing parties, who are uniting behind quitting the EU.

Also don't see how each country reverting back unto itself has anything to do with uniting people.

 

I think it's a bad evolution that people feel the need to say fuck you to (mainstream) political parties; it pushes them to extremists such as UKIP, FN, AfD, PVV, Vlaams Belang on the right, and to the communists on the left.

Trump is also riding the fuck-you establishment wave, with terms like "take your country back", and "make your country great again".

 

That's down to the failure of the mainstream political parties to offer an alternative though. Really all of the voters that voted out based on a fear of losing prosperity and of seeing their socio-economic position diminish or out of displeasure with the neoliberal agenda of the British governments of the last couple of decades (including Blair's New Labour) should have been Labour's voters or even the Green Party's voters.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Steve_E

[holystove]

 

That's down to the failure of the mainstream political parties to offer an alternative though. Really all of the voters that voted out based on a fear of losing prosperity and of seeing their socio-economic position diminish or out of displeasure with the neoliberal agenda of the British governments of the last couple of decades (including Blair's New Labour) should have been Labour's voters or even the Green Party's voters.

 

I agree that in your example Labour and the Green Party should pick up those votes. But it's tough for mainstream parties to offer an alternative that resonates with the public if there's also a populist party that is offering a really simple solution to every problem you might have (it's the immigrants, it's the EU, it's radical Islam, it's the gays, ..).

Edited June 24, 2016 by holystove

[MikeO]

Haha, wow, just saw Nigel Farage's comments about that 350m transfer from the EU to the NHS. He's not wasting time. Weren't the parties campaigning for a Brexit the neoliberal ones and did people actually believe they were advocating a Brexit to save publically funded healthcare? ​

 

He's not even an MP though so for him to back down and say that their tour bus ad was a "mistake" isn't that relevant because he has no say...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html

 

 

I'd be somewhat happier if someone in a position of authority came out and contradicted him though.

 

Deafening silence so far.

[Hafnia]

 

He's not even an MP though so for him to back down and say that their tour bus ad was a "mistake" isn't that relevant because he has no say...

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html

 

 

I'd be somewhat happier if someone in a position of authority came out and contradicted him though.

 

Deafening silence so far.

The bus doesnt say "lets spend all of it on the nhs every week"

 

If the NHS receives £10m a week "net" of our old EU expenditure.... then that is actually funding the NHS.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Hafnia

[Newty82]

The Nigel Farage £350 mill thing...if anyone believed that all of this money would be spent on the NHS...fool them. It's not upto Farage and Co how that money is spent. But the strap line was used as an example of what could supposedly be saved and what it could potentially be spent on.

 

A vote for the UK to be out of the EU is absolutely not a vote for the 'far right'...and it is not down to the UK that doors will be opened up for such political parties else where in Europe. That is down to the people of each individual country. And if it is on the rise, and if more people from varying countries are embracing it, then we need to start asking why? And not be scared of the answers. But face them full on.

 

There is so much bollocks out there at the moment. You've got people of non UK origins asking for London to be separate from the UK. People from Europe, who are here working and raising families saying that they no longer feel welcome, which is rubbish. I've read so much crap today.

 

I've gone from a normal guy who earns an honest living, pays my way and only wants the best for my family to an ignorant bigot, a racist, a right winger, a xenophobic...what the hell?! What, because I used my right to vote for what I believe is the best solution? Suddenly half the country are being labeled in the same way. That's a disgrace. And actually, the reaction to the result from the remainders is what opens doors for the far right type mindsets.

 

A vote to leave was not a vote for UKIP, the far right, the far left what ever. It was not a vote to kick out all foreigners. It was a vote to leave the EU.

 

I hate pigeon holing. I have my own mind and my own thoughts. I don't belong to a 'wing' or a 'party'. I am me. I was me yesterday, I am me today.

[Cornish Steve]

[Hafnia]

Actually mike... whilst that picture wasnt a direct commitment they did have a poster that said "Let's give our NHS the £350 million the EU takes every week"

 

Embarrassing.

[Makis]

Poor excuses. Not everyone who voted for NSDAP were Nazi's, they were just disapointed. Net effect is you voted what the far right wanted. Plus Trump, Putin, Johnson etc.

[holystove]

A vote for the UK to be out of the EU is absolutely not a vote for the 'far right'...and it is not down to the UK that doors will be opened up for such political parties else where in Europe. That is down to the people of each individual country. And if it is on the rise, and if more people from varying countries are embracing it, then we need to start asking why? And not be scared of the answers. But face them full on.

 

I've gone from a normal guy who earns an honest living, pays my way and only wants the best for my family to an ignorant bigot, a racist, a right winger, a xenophobic...what the hell?! What, because I used my right to vote for what I believe is the best solution? Suddenly half the country are being labeled in the same way. That's a disgrace. And actually, the reaction to the result from the remainders is what opens doors for the far right type mindsets.

 

A vote to leave was not a vote for UKIP, the far right, the far left what ever. It was not a vote to kick out all foreigners. It was a vote to leave the EU.

 

I hate pigeon holing. I have my own mind and my own thoughts. I don't belong to a 'wing' or a 'party'. I am me. I was me yesterday, I am me today.

 

The thread was going in the direction of which parties on the continent are influenced by the idea of an exit out of EU, and so far, they're all extreme parties. Doesn't mean anyone on here who voted leave is by definition an extremist. The UK is very unique in that they were never fully in the EU, were always suspicious of it, have a huge anti-EU media, used to be a big empire so nostalgia might have played some part, ... there are so many reasons to vote leave, next to the immigration/racist/xenophobe arguments.

 

On the continent, the first (more or less reasonable) set of arguments apply to a much lesser extent. Not that France/Germany/Italy/Netherlands etc don't have an impressive history as nation-states, but they are some of the founding fathers of the EU so they identify with it much more. I guess their economies are much more open as well, given their geographical location (on the continent).

[Romey 1878]

Don't think I was twisting your words. You said you hoped your Brexit influenced other countries to also choose to quit the EU. I replied that such a message is only being picked up by the far-right-wing parties, who are uniting behind quitting the EU.

Also don't see how each country reverting back unto itself has anything to do with uniting people.

 

I think it's a bad evolution that people feel the need to say fuck you to (mainstream) political parties; it pushes them to extremists such as UKIP, FN, AfD, PVV, Vlaams Belang on the right, and to the communists on the left.

Trump is also riding the fuck-you establishment wave, with terms like "take your country back", and "make your country great again".

Ffs, I greened this accidentally.

 

If the people want to make the choice whether to stay in the EU, and the result of our vote gives them the courage to ask for it, then you fucking bet I'm proud of that.

 

Mainstream politics has brought the fuck you attitude on themselves. They deserve it. Maybe be this (and the possibility of other countries following suit) will force them to be what they should be.

 

You make out like all people who voted to leave are uneducated racists when it's simply not the case. Immigration wasn't even the top concern of the majority of leave voters. You keep spouting that though. Anyway, Newty put it much better than me so just read his post. I'm going out and maybe I'll have a few extra drinks to celebrate the result of the vote. I might punch a Polish person just for shits and giggles while I'm there. After all, I voted leave so it'd only be right wouldn't it?

[Hafnia]

Poor excuses. Not everyone who voted for NSDAP were Nazi's, they were just disapointed. Net effect is you voted what the far right wanted. Plus Trump, Putin, Johnson etc.

Absolute bullshit! Its like saying someone who wants to protest at a game is a kopite. I hate all that shit.

 

I voted out. I want our elected government to make our rules. Is that far right? No is it fuck.

[holystove]

Ffs, I greened this accidentally.

 

If the people want to make the choice whether to stay in the EU, and the result of our vote gives them the courage to ask for it, then you fucking bet I'm proud of that.

 

Mainstream politics has brought the fuck you attitude on themselves. They deserve it. Maybe be this (and the possibility of other countries following suit) will force them to be what they should be.

 

You make out like all people who voted to leave are uneducated racists when it's simply not the case. Immigration wasn't even the top concern of the majority of leave voters. You keep spouting that though. Anyway, Newty put it much better than me so just read his post. I'm going out and maybe I'll have a few extra drinks to celebrate the result of the vote. I might punch a Polish person just for shits and giggles while I'm there. After all, I voted leave so it'd only be right wouldn't it?

I'll green you in return !

 

Read my reply to Newty and you'll understand where I stand.; no need to be so defensive.

 

I tend to (try to) keep emotion out of these things, but I guess that's easier not being a UK citizen and not really directly affected.

Edited June 24, 2016 by holystove

[Hafnia]

I do love how im supposed to be thick,old, biggotted, facist, uneducated because of my vote according to media.

 

Oh to be a 20 year old lad called Giles from Hertfordshire who has just decided to spend his year out from Uni doing "europe" with rupert and henry in a VW camper that Daddy had bought... i mean just as the white boy dreadlocks and henna tattoos were taking shape.

 

All about extremes with stereotypes isnt it.

[MikeO]

The bus doesnt say "lets spend all of it on the nhs every week"

 

If the NHS receives £10m a week "net" of our old EU expenditure.... then that is actually funding the NHS.

 

 

It was at best disingenuous.

 

"We send the EU £350m every week, let's fund the NHS instead" doesn't suggest to me we'll give the NHS £4.50 extra. Shameful misinformation. Politics of fear maybe?

[Newty82]

Both sides were at it.

 

Nobody has come out smelling like roses.

[MikeO]

Both sides were at it.

 

Nobody has come out smelling like roses.

 

Agree.