Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[SpartyBlue]

3 minutes ago, Formby said:

He's going from one controversy to another, if this is to be believed.

PSG’s Muslim soccer stars criticized for Al-Aqsa Mosque visit – The Last Of Ligue 1 (lg-solid.com)

I think people generally greatly overestimate the degree to which the average athlete pays attention to or cares about cultural/political issues. See: LIV Golf Tour.

[Matt]

3 minutes ago, RPG said:

To try to infer that Gueye declined to wear the shirt for any reason other than his religious obligation is just ridiculous Matt.

That's not remotely what I said. It's clearly his religious views that stopped him. Like is said, I agree with you on the why.

[plaidharper]

Assume there has been many EPL players who have refused to wear rainbow laces / shirts. Probably happens every year.  Wonder where the news stories were on that?  Involves an ex / future Everton player and it is front page / all over socials.  Everton that.

[Shukes]

4 hours ago, Aidan said:

 

This is obviously fake! Don’t forget 3 people on world think that Gana is one of the worst passers in premier league history.

Baileys gonna love this one, he is big on his stats come on Bails…. Bring it in!

[Hafnia]

There are black footballers who will not take the knee because of tokenism, and I get that.  Tokenism is rife at the moment and the hot air is irritating…. Players can take the knee, get racially abused and the fans that subject them to it are not punished. It’s the ultimate throw a bone insult.   
 

The womens game will get a few minutes of fame, bbc sports personality team of the year and the likes of Clare balding will spout her men vs women nonsense without even giving a crap. Will they be there in the stands with the 900 others trying to grow it? Will they be trying to address the complete lack of investment at grass roots level in order to get the UK on the same page as the USA?  Doubt it.  Yeah they have female academies etc, they are not a patch on the mens, and until they are you will have to hear people pretend the game is a better quality than it is or have irritating pricks like me say it’s not good enough. 

[SpartyBlue]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

This is obviously fake! Don’t forget 3 people on world think that Gana is one of the worst passers in premier league history.

Baileys gonna love this one, he is big on his stats come on Bails…. Bring it in!

I’d be curious if there are any stats on average length of pass. It doesn’t surprise me that Gana’s accuracy is very high given that many of his passes with us would have been passing it back and forth to our defenders or a 5 yard pass to another midfielder. Worth noting that the list is mostly players who make short, safe passes. I suppose Gomes and Doucoure are exceptions a bit but they still do a lot of those short triangle type passes to defenders and other mids as they look to connect our play.

[StevO]

41 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

There are black footballers who will not take the knee because of tokenism, and I get that.  Tokenism is rife at the moment and the hot air is irritating…. Players can take the knee, get racially abused and the fans that subject them to it are not punished. It’s the ultimate throw a bone insult.   
 

The womens game will get a few minutes of fame, bbc sports personality team of the year and the likes of Clare balding will spout her men vs women nonsense without even giving a crap. Will they be there in the stands with the 900 others trying to grow it? Will they be trying to address the complete lack of investment at grass roots level in order to get the UK on the same page as the USA?  Doubt it.  Yeah they have female academies etc, they are not a patch on the mens, and until they are you will have to hear people pretend the game is a better quality than it is or have irritating pricks like me say it’s not good enough. 

Are you in the right thread?

[Bailey]

On 01/08/2022 at 15:55, Hafnia said:

Palf, there is no way he will cost us games.  Will he make mistakes?  Yeah, all players do.  He is a high energy, combative midfielder who when he was taken out of our team we looked completely leggy, and weak in midfield. 
 

no he’s not Patrick viera or Gerrard, but he will stop us from being overrun 

To be fair, look at the players we had left! My nan would look high energy compared to them!

On 01/08/2022 at 17:17, Shukes said:

No I agree with this Bailey. This is why I think his play suits a link up player. He was effective in this role in the CL matches. It’s 100% what we as a team struggle with. 
Doucs is a massive player for us, but will always struggle with the ten yard passes. He just doesn’t have that in his locker.

I don't see a huge amount of difference in them other than Doucoure being played in a more traditional box to box role during his time here (especially under Rafa). 

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

This is obviously fake! Don’t forget 3 people on world think that Gana is one of the worst passers in premier league history.

Baileys gonna love this one, he is big on his stats come on Bails…. Bring it in!

Sparty has already touched on this. He can make short simple passes but he isnt a progressive passer. You cant tell me that you watch him and think he has amazing technique as a passer? But, he doesnt need to. In the same way as Doucoure, win the ball and give it to someone who can do something with it. 

If Gana had all the ability you suggest he should have won the Ballon D'or by now

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

I’d be curious if there are any stats on average length of path. It doesn’t surprise me that Gana’s accuracy is very high given that many of his passes with us would have been passing it back and forth to our defenders or a 5 yard pass to another midfielder. Worth noting that the list is mostly players who make short, safe passes. I suppose Gomes and Doucoure are exceptions a bit but they still do a lot of those short triangle type passes to defenders and other mids as they look to connect our play.

I’m hoping it’s the smaller passes. Long passes are the easiest to make on a football pitch as the ball is in flight for so long that the receiving player has time to adjust to tie flight. 
Everton have failed over the last ten years to find players that can make a more technical ten yard pass.

Doucoure is a typical example of this, as was Gomes. They put so many ten yard passes a yard away from the player as they don’t have that ability. 
 

We need a player in the middle who can easily put these passes together and link up play. I imagine that’s why they were looking at players like Winks and Gilmour.

[Shukes]

10 minutes ago, Bailey said:

To be fair, look at the players we had left! My nan would look high energy compared to them!

I don't see a huge amount of difference in them other than Doucoure being played in a more traditional box to box role during his time here (especially under Rafa). 

Sparty has already touched on this. He can make short simple passes but he isnt a progressive passer. You cant tell me that you watch him and think he has amazing technique as a passer? But, he doesnt need to. In the same way as Doucoure, win the ball and give it to someone who can do something with it. 

If Gana had all the ability you suggest he should have won the Ballon D'or by now

No by far he is not an amazing technique player. But he can put the shorter players together. 
 

Put it this way. Coaches work on these short passes and rarely train with a long ball. It’s because it doesn’t really take much skill to flight a ball to a player 30 yards away as the player can easily make 5 yards during flight.

If you put a ten yard pass only a yard away, it misses its target and the player has no time to react to it.

Question: do you ever get annoyed with players like Doucs, Davies, Gomes for missing short passes? Take a quick skim through any match day thread and you’ll realise it’s very very common. 

[Formby]

46 minutes ago, StevO said:

Are you in the right thread?

To be fair, he probably is - the thread is the nearest we have to a pub thread. Haf talking to anyone who will listen while Matt and RPG check their handbags before assaulting the other and Bailey busily scanning his phone for stats to lob at Haf, who has now decided to move on to another subject, while Palfy and Shukes do their best impressions of Statler and Waldorf... it's really very enjoyable. 

[SpartyBlue]

32 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I’m hoping it’s the smaller passes. Long passes are the easiest to make on a football pitch as the ball is in flight for so long that the receiving player has time to adjust to tie flight. 
Everton have failed over the last ten years to find players that can make a more technical ten yard pass.

Doucoure is a typical example of this, as was Gomes. They put so many ten yard passes a yard away from the player as they don’t have that ability. 
 

We need a player in the middle who can easily put these passes together and link up play. I imagine that’s why they were looking at players like Winks and Gilmour.

I take your point about floaty, cross-field balls but in general a shorter pass is going to be more accurate. Most defenders and players like Gana are going to rack up high accuracy numbers making short, risk free passes to each other. Just as players will have a lower shooting % if they take them from 25 yards out.

[Shukes]

I don’t disagree. It’s the triangle passes that most will fail at. They have to be on the button and crisp. This is what sets professional players apart from your average non league superstar, and why so many of these players fail when they step up.

Im actually sitting on a field watching the U13s at the moment. Their coach is putting them in threes and making them pass and move. One lad just pinged a ball to the furthest player and is instantly pulled up for it…. Your not learning anything doing that. 
 

Jags wasn’t the most technical player we had, nor is Tarks… but they both long balls to the corners all day long. Even Holgate makes the Hollywood pass look easy. Ask them to thread a ten harder through two players and you may as well ask them to explain quantum Physics.

[SpartyBlue]

9 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I don’t disagree. It’s the triangle passes that most will fail at. They have to be on the button and crisp. This is what sets professional players apart from your average non league superstar, and why so many of these players fail when they step up.

Im actually sitting on a field watching the U13s at the moment. Their coach is putting them in threes and making them pass and move. One lad just pinged a ball to the furthest player and is instantly pulled up for it…. Your not learning anything doing that. 
 

Jags wasn’t the most technical player we had, nor is Tarks… but they both long balls to the corners all day long. Even Holgate makes the Hollywood pass look easy. Ask them to thread a ten harder through two players and you may as well ask them to explain quantum Physics.

I think the reason those are difficult is because it’s really not a technical thing. Any professional footballer can play a 10 yard pass. It’s having the brain to see the space and the proper angle  and the ambition to try something that might give the ball away. It’s why I prefer players like Deulofeu in attacking positions. He gave it away a lot but several times a game he’d create chances with his creativity. It only takes one or two moments a game to make it worth it. We struggled badly last year to create chances against a set defense. Hopefully guys like McNeil and Dele will improve us in that respect. 

[Shukes]

I suppose it’s down to opinion and what we see, and I suppose what we are good at.
Im 49 years old and still play with my kids, pinging balls non stop. But when asked to do a control and pass movement at pace, I often fail these days. 
 

I agree any pro footballer should be able to do a ten yard pass. But I disagree that it’s the simpler pass to play under pressure in a match.
 

Not that I’m right, but that is how I see it and train the kids. Hopefully I’m not destroying their careers to badly haha If I am, then at least they have a chance at Everton!

[SpartyBlue]

3 minutes ago, Shukes said:

I suppose it’s down to opinion and what we see, and I suppose what we are good at.
Im 49 years old and still play with my kids, pinging balls non stop. But when asked to do a control and pass movement at pace, I often fail these days. 
 

I agree any pro footballer should be able to do a ten yard pass. But I disagree that it’s the simpler pass to play under pressure in a match.
 

Not that I’m right, but that is how I see it and train the kids. Hopefully I’m not destroying their careers to badly haha If I am, then at least they have a chance at Everton!

Well not all 10 yard passes are the same, obviously. A 10 yard ball you slip in to unlock the defense and time a run from a teammate is of course much more difficult than passing it across the back to a defender. Gana did far more of the latter when he was here. Which is fine, he wasn’t in there to play that final 1/3 ball. Just a reminder that while numbers don’t lie they can be misinterpreted (not suggesting you are).

[Wall Writer]

1 hour ago, Formby said:

To be fair, he probably is - the thread is the nearest we have to a pub thread. Haf talking to anyone who will listen while Matt and RPG check their handbags before assaulting the other and Bailey busily scanning his phone for stats to lob at Haf, who has now decided to move on to another subject, while Palfy and Shukes do their best impressions of Statler and Waldorf... it's really very enjoyable. 

This is spot on!  

[Romey 1878]

 

[Gwlad]

3 hours ago, Hafnia said:

There are black footballers who will not take the knee because of tokenism, and I get that.  Tokenism is rife at the moment and the hot air is irritating…. Players can take the knee, get racially abused and the fans that subject them to it are not punished. It’s the ultimate throw a bone insult.   
 

The womens game will get a few minutes of fame, bbc sports personality team of the year and the likes of Clare balding will spout her men vs women nonsense without even giving a crap. Will they be there in the stands with the 900 others trying to grow it? Will they be trying to address the complete lack of investment at grass roots level in order to get the UK on the same page as the USA?  Doubt it.  Yeah they have female academies etc, they are not a patch on the mens, and until they are you will have to hear people pretend the game is a better quality than it is or have irritating pricks like me say it’s not good enough. 

No. Clare Balding is all about Clare Balding.

[Hafnia]

24 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

No. Clare Balding is all about Clare Balding.

Can’t stand the horror.  The way she embarrassed the jockey for his teeth after the grand national was a disgrace.  

[Gwlad]

Untouchable

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Formby said:

To be fair, he probably is - the thread is the nearest we have to a pub thread. Haf talking to anyone who will listen while Matt and RPG check their handbags before assaulting the other and Bailey busily scanning his phone for stats to lob at Haf, who has now decided to move on to another subject, while Palfy and Shukes do their best impressions of Statler and Waldorf... it's really very enjoyable. 

Shukes and I are like Morcombe and Wise, with me being Morcombe not because I’m the funniest, bald or wear classes, but just because Shukes is fat and short with hairy legs

[Cornish Steve]

27 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Shukes and I are like Morcombe and Wise, with me being Morcombe not because I’m the funniest, bald or wear classes, but just because Shukes is fat and short with hairy legs

That makes me Andre Previn.

[badaids]

27 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

That makes me Andre Previn.

Or Angela Rippon.

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, badaids said:

Or Angela Rippon.

Please not Des O'Connor.

[Shukes]

7 hours ago, Palfy said:

Shukes and I are like Morcombe and Wise, with me being Morcombe not because I’m the funniest, bald or wear classes, but just because Shukes is fat and short with hairy legs

My legs are not hairy!!!!!

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

My legs are not hairy!!!!!

Only since you started waxing

[Matt]

12 hours ago, RPG said:

Pleased to hear it. In that case I can’t see where we disagree.

You made a blanket statement on Islam (which came across as very condescending, intended or not) and I was correcting that statement. Never disagreed with you that Gana (or anyone) should be forced into something they don't want to do, even for what I see as a just cause. That's counter to equality.

[SpartyBlue]

24 minutes ago, Matt said:

You made a blanket statement on Islam (which came across as very condescending, intended or not) and I was correcting that statement. Never disagreed with you that Gana (or anyone) should be forced into something they don't want to do, even for what I see as a just cause. That's counter to equality.

Forced is being thrown around a lot in this conversation. I agree Gana should not have been put to a decision (though it is possible his contract mandates he wears whatever kit the club decides on) but he did still have a choice. Wear the kit or sit the game. He simply chose the latter. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, SpartyBlue said:

Forced is being thrown around a lot in this conversation. I agree Gana should not have been put to a decision (though it is possible his contract mandates he wears whatever kit the club decides on) but he did still have a choice. Wear the kit or sit the game. He simply chose the latter. 

Fair enough, poor choice of wording on my part. He should never have been put in the position.