Should we sack our manager?

[Bill]

Agreed, no but i thought it was standard practice for the 1st team coach to take the next step up.

[Paddock]

13 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Walsh was brought in to make these decisions as Director of Football. That’s his domain. He doesn’t need to sack himself, Moshiri is above him. 

I’d be absolutely staggered if Walsh sanctioned the Lukaku sale- I think we sold him to get maximum revenue for him knowing we’d probably get less than 50 next summer and that lies firmly at Kenwright and Moshiris door. Also if targets were identified, it’s their job to do the maths and make the magic happen.

I think the blame lies collectively, Koeman as manager mostly, Walsh for his part and also the board for sanctioning the sale of Lukaku and not getting a striker over the line.

[Paddock]

7 minutes ago, MikeO said:

And thrice no.

Unanimous

[Romey 1878]

Just now, Paddock said:

I’d be absolutely staggered if Walsh sanctioned the Lukaku sale- I think we sold him to get maximum revenue for him knowing we’d probably get less than 50 next summer and that lies firmly at Kenwright and Moshiris door. Also if targets were identified, it’s their job to do the maths and make the magic happen.

I think the blame lies collectively, Koeman as manager mostly, Walsh for his part and also the board for sanctioning the sale of Lukaku and not getting a striker over the line.

If Walsh didn’t sanction it then what the hell did we bring him here for? Transfers, in and out, are his gig. 

[nogs]

Just now, Bill said:

Agreed, no but i thought it was standard practice for the 1st team coach to take the next step up.

You could say same for assistant manager. But as that's Ernie, probably not in this case. 

Thing is, I get Unsworth needs to prove himself as a first team manager. But if we send him away to a league 1 club and next thing we're playing him in the Premier League in three, four years, what have we achieved? His record at U23 level is exceptional, why not give one of our own that first chance? 

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Bill said:

Agreed, no but i thought it was standard practice for the 1st team coach to take the next step up.

Think in most cases where a manager is binned the first team coach is as well; although I don't think that'd happen in this case.

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, nogs said:

You could say same for assistant manager. But as that's Ernie, probably not in this case. 

Thing is, I get Unsworth needs to prove himself as a first team manager. But if we send him away to a league 1 club and next thing we're playing him in the Premier League in three, four years, what have we achieved? His record at U23 level is exceptional, why not give one of our own that first chance? 

I wouldn't be against it; different era I know but it worked pretty bloody well for Merseyside's second team.

[Paddock]

2 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

If Walsh didn’t sanction it then what the hell did we bring him here for? Transfers, in and out, are his gig. 

He finds players and identifies them, he then passes it to the board to see if it can be done. He wont of sanctioned the sale of Lukaku.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

He finds players and identifies them, he then passes it to the board to see if it can be done. He wont of sanctioned the sale of Lukaku.

So who did then ?

Unless Haf was given some kind of influential role in transfer business no other daft cunt would have sold him

[Paddock]

1 minute ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So who did then ?

Unless Haf was given some kind of influential role in transfer business no other daft cunt would have sold him

 

The board Dunc- no way would Lukaku be sold unless Moshiri and Kenwright gave the green light to it- they are te ones who hold the purse strings, they are the ones who wil ultimately sign any deal off- not Walsh or Koeman and snyone with even a modicum of common sense would have put the blocks on that transfer until his replacement was at Finch Farm in a blue shirt.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

The board Dunc- no way would Lukaku be sold unless Moshiri and Kenwright gave the green light to it- they are te ones who hold the purse strings, they are the ones who wil ultimately sign any deal off- not Walsh or Koeman and snyone with even a modicum of common sense would have put the blocks on that transfer until his replacement was at Finch Farm in a blue shirt.

I totally agree it’s was criminal to let him go without a replacement , and whoever sanctioned it needs to go. But if it wasn’t Walsh is in charge of player recruitment and if he was over ruled in such a major decision surely he would have walked anyway

[Lowensda]

Looks more and more like the players have also stopped playing for him.

[Paddock]

4 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I totally agree it’s was criminal to let him go without a replacement , and whoever sanctioned it needs to go. But if it wasn’t Walsh is in charge of player recruitment and if he was over ruled in such a major decision surely he would have walked anyway

 

I don’t think anyone but the board have the power to samction deals one way or the other- Walsh will find and identify targets he wont ring Kenwright or Moshiri and say “I’ve just sold Lukaku for 75 mil plus add ons” or any other player for that matter- regardless of what deal is beinbg done either sell or buy it will have to be put in front of the board who control the finances so why did they say ok to it? Why did no one say “hang on a minute what if we don’t get a replacement in, lets wait and sort that forst, tell them it’s a tes as long as we get a replacement” signing deals off will not be Walshes job.

[Bailey]

15 minutes ago, Paddock said:

The board Dunc- no way would Lukaku be sold unless Moshiri and Kenwright gave the green light to it- they are te ones who hold the purse strings, they are the ones who wil ultimately sign any deal off- not Walsh or Koeman and snyone with even a modicum of common sense would have put the blocks on that transfer until his replacement was at Finch Farm in a blue shirt.

It's definitely the board. I doubt Walsh has any involvement in the contracts or negotiations. He is basically a chief scout and takes that side of the job away from the manager. Koeman feeds back what he wants and Walsh will find players that fit that bill plus some of his own.

The board sold Lukaku. Walsh and Koeman between then would have ideas of replacements but he board didn't get them over the line.

[Paddock]

1 minute ago, Bailey said:

It's definitely the board. I doubt Walsh has any involvement in the contracts or negotiations. He is basically a chief scout and takes that side of the job away from the manager. Koeman feeds back what he wants and Walsh will find players that fit that bill plus some of his own.

The board sold Lukaku. Walsh and Koeman between then would have ideas of replacements but he board didn't get them over the line.

Exactly- Walsh would have zero say on it, the board wanted top dollar and played Russian Roulette letting him go without a replacement- it’s backfired big time and regardless of what Koemans doing, they let him down massively over that. I would imagine if Koeman and Walsh would have had a say, Lukaku would if stayed at least another year.

[Hafnia]

32 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I’m more angry at us not replacing Lukaku than letting him go. We’d known since April (at least) that he was off, so we had ample time to do something. We did nothing and whoever is responsible for that should be sacked. 

I'd sooner have a manager who knew what he was doing to get the next striker. 

[Bailey]

1 minute ago, Paddock said:

Exactly- Walsh would have zero say on it, the board wanted top dollar and played Russian Roulette letting him go without a replacement- it’s backfired big time and regardless of what Koemans doing, they let him down massively over that. I would imagine if Koeman and Walsh would have had a say, Lukaku would if stayed at least another year.

I imagine everyone at the club knew that Rom was going this summer, probably since the summer before. I imagine there was a conversation that went along the lines of "get your head down, bang in a load of goals this season and then you can move next summer" like we did with Stones. He was ALWAYS going. 

Why we didnt get anyone in is a completely different story. Maybe we aimed to high, maybe we were given the run around, maybe there was no-one that fit the bill who wanted to come here. 

Koeman said all along that he wanted more goals from the other 9 outfield players. We did buy 2 strikers in Sandro and Rooney along with DCL coming through the ranks. If he wanted a big name target man then why on earight bring those two in? There is something wrong between Koeman, Walsh and the board that doesn't add up. I suspect that Koeman wanted the big name players (Rooney, Giroud, Siggy, Costa), Walsh wanted the slightly left field players (Sandro, DCL, Vlasic, Onyekuru) and what we have ended up with is a mixture of shite because players are being shoe horned into positions they aren't right for. 

Whatever happens in the future, it needs to be better.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

So it alls come back to whoever sanctioned the sale has fucked up massively and I seriously doubt that Koeman , unless he has a had Haf in his ear , would have been daft enough to agree to the sale of his best asset unless he believed we had a replacement

[nogs]

2 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So it alls come back to whoever sanctioned the sale has fucked up massively and I seriously doubt that Koeman , unless he has a had Haf in his ear , would have been daft enough to agree to the sale of his best asset unless he believed we had a replacement

 

On the other hand, Koeman has more or less told Barkley he can go and spent nearly £70m on two replacements that look utter shite. 

[Bailey]

It was never Koeman but selling Lukaku isn't the reason we are playing shit. We played this badly last year when he was playing for us so what was the excuse then?

[EFC-Paul]

It'll be the board that sanction such deals, Walsh will be more of a head scout with a fancy title 

Either way it's a big part of our problems but the buck stops with Koeman I think he and Walsh put all their eggs into one basket with Rooney as Roms replacement 

 

[nogs]

Lukaku going is a distraction. The players we've brought in have not been good enough, the system we are playing is horribly wrong. A decent manager would be winning against Burnley, Brighton and Limassol with our squad

[Bill]

Not able to stop him going tbh, he said often enough he didn't want to be here and put in half hearted performances, if we'd have tried to stop him it would have been a waste of time to even consider playing him.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

So who did then ?

Unless Haf was given some kind of influential role in transfer business no other daft cunt would have sold him

 

daft cunt?

 Keeping lukaku???  Yeah could really do with his leadership, hard work, tenacity, I'm sure he would have been fully up for the cause.  You could always depend on him to put in a shift when all those around him weren't....

I fear your beloved Bill was involved in the sanction dunc.  

[Paddock]

25 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I imagine everyone at the club knew that Rom was going this summer, probably since the summer before. I imagine there was a conversation that went along the lines of "get your head down, bang in a load of goals this season and then you can move next summer" like we did with Stones. He was ALWAYS going. 

Why we didnt get anyone in is a completely different story. Maybe we aimed to high, maybe we were given the run around, maybe there was no-one that fit the bill who wanted to come here. 

Koeman said all along that he wanted more goals from the other 9 outfield players. We did buy 2 strikers in Sandro and Rooney along with DCL coming through the ranks. If he wanted a big name target man then why on earight bring those two in? There is something wrong between Koeman, Walsh and the board that doesn't add up. I suspect that Koeman wanted the big name players (Rooney, Giroud, Siggy, Costa), Walsh wanted the slightly left field players (Sandro, DCL, Vlasic, Onyekuru) and what we have ended up with is a mixture of shite because players are being shoe horned into positions they aren't right for. 

Whatever happens in the future, it needs to be better.

The bit that’s wrong with that is Lukaku should have been told he’s going nowhere until he is replaced and reminded he has 2 years left and if we can’t replace him he stays- why should the club suffer to appease Lukaku- He was under contract to us, we held all the cards and some genius let him leave. It’s nothing but piss poor running of the club and you can’t blame that on Koeman.

[Hafnia]

So let's get this right....  we are in the shit cos we never replaced lukaku?  Elsewhere we have threads saying that schneiderlin is crap, DCL is being played out of position, tom davies should be getting played, gana is Poor, Ashley Williams is past it. 

 

[Guest]

To put things into perspective, I haven't spoken to one blue yet who wants to keep Koeman. If i was in his position I would want to leave, nevermind get sacked.

[Cornish Steve]

Increasingly, what concerns me is the impact this is having on players we really need to keep: Barkley, Lookman, Davies, Besic, Kenny, Mirallas (even though I've not been the latter's biggest fan). These are the type of players, coupled with Holgate, Vlasic, and DC-L (when played in their proper positions) who will turn this team around. With every week that passes, they must be thinking twice about running for the exits.

As for replacement manager, I called for Ancelotti the moment he became free, but our lowly position (which tomorrow could be in the relegation zone) would be a big turn-off for him. The more I think on this, I would stick with someone who knows the team and the players, and that's Unsworth. He's proved his worth with the U-23s, so give him the chance: He deserves it, and it seems the players respect him. This is important right now.

Until this week, I could understand those who called for Koeman to be given more time, even though I've wanted him out for over a month now. It's wise to stick with a strategy when things are going poorly, and knee-jerk reactions rarely work out well. But Koeman has shown absolutely no propensity for change. Week after week, he sticks with an obviously losing formula, forces players to play out of position, appears to show little genuine emotion, frustration, or anger, and, quite frankly, doesn't seem to care. This cannot continue. Too many warnings signs are there for even a cautious observer to request more time.

The corollary to the John Harris quote in my signature applies right now: Fall into a low footing, and the air becomes putrid. Mr. Moshiri: You must see right now that the tide has turned against the manager. It's only going to continue downhill until you take charge and act decisively.

[Paddock]

46 minutes ago, hafnia said:

So let's get this right....  we are in the shit cos we never replaced lukaku?  Elsewhere we have threads saying that schneiderlin is crap, DCL is being played out of position, tom davies should be getting played, gana is Poor, Ashley Williams is past it. 

 

Yes Haf, the reason we have scored practically no goals is we haven’t replaced him- it’s no coincidence since he left we’ve practically scored nothing.

I know that stick in your throat but we miss Lukaku- fucking deal with it mate!

[nogs]

There is an argument to say Koeman is unlucky with injuries. Coleman, Bolasie, McCarthy and Barkley would make a massive difference. But would he play Barkley ahead of Sigurdsson? Would he play McCarthy and break up his beloved Schneiderlin/Gana defensive screen?

Even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say the failure to replace Lukaku is not his fault, he is still not using the players available to the best of their potential. DCL out wide - it's just unbelievable when you have Mirallas on the bench and Lookman not even in the match day squad. DCL needs to work on his finishing for sure, and you could argue his misses have cost us big points this season. But he's getting one, two chances a match - arguably more than Rooney playing down the centre, but not enough to play himself into any sort of goal scoring form. How many tap ins did Lukaku get from just being in space in the box? That's what DCL needs, with wide men who will beat their full back and put a cross in. Have we seen anyone get to the byline this season?

So yeah, there are players missing, and new signings not delivering. But if he played people in their right places and set us up to at least have a go, we'd be nowhere near the mess we're in. Which for me is why he has to go.