London Blue Posted October 4, 2017 Report Share Posted October 4, 2017 He only has 1 and 1/2 years left on his contract so it wont cost that much too sack him, not that Moshiri would worry about the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Trust me. Wealthy businessmen become that way because they focus and worry about every single cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 8 hours ago, MikeO said: "speculation in certain gutter areas of the press" Must be true. 21 hours ago, Matt said: Rumours are coming from the scum, don't believe a word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 Can't see Koeman being the type to ever hold his hands up, admit he did wrong and walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 17 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said: Can't see Koeman being the type to ever hold his hands up, admit he did wrong and walk. Not when there is £££ at stake. He is unlikely to have his dream offers waiting for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 8 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: Trust me. Wealthy businessmen become that way because they focus and worry about every single cost. Trust me, a smart businessman would be considering the opportunity cost of keeping Koeman there as our global brand diminishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Chach said: Trust me, a smart businessman would be considering the opportunity cost of keeping Koeman there as our global brand diminishes. I agree. Moshiri wants success and is willing to be patient but the early signs are that, under Koeman, we are going backwards. If things don't improve quickly then Koeman will be gone. rubecula 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, hafnia said: Not when there is £££ at stake. He is unlikely to have his dream offers waiting for him. The Dutch are more proud than the Spanish.. I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 minute ago, pete0 said: The Dutch are more proud than the Spanish.. I hope. Ahem, we treat people as individuals on Toffee Talk. pete0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 4 hours ago, hafnia said: Not when there is £££ at stake. He is unlikely to have his dream offers waiting for him. That's the point isn't it? Why resign when you could have millions in the bank for being sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Aidan Lewis said: That's the point isn't it? Why resign when you could have millions in the bank for being sacked. well - he can't walk away and say its due to lack of support can he? He has been well backed... Aidan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 5, 2017 Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 I haven't added a lot on this topic but I felt from the start and still feel that our players are not taking any where near the amount of responsibility needed. I accept koeman hasn't had a perfect start however I still don't think he has been bad as it's been made out. He needs to be better yes but equally a lot of our "core" experienced players do as well. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted October 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2017 12 hours ago, Chach said: Ahem, we treat people as individuals on Toffee Talk. I always thought you were an Englishman Chach. 12 hours ago, johnh said: I agree. Moshiri wants success and is willing to be patient but the early signs are that, under Koeman, we are going backwards. If things don't improve quickly then Koeman will be gone. agreed, makes sense johnh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 7 hours ago, Btay said: I haven't added a lot on this topic but I felt from the start and still feel that our players are not taking any where near the amount of responsibility needed. I accept koeman hasn't had a perfect start however I still don't think he has been bad as it's been made out. He needs to be better yes but equally a lot of our "core" experienced players do as well. The biggest single worry is his complete inability or refusal to recognise that his ridiculous selection and formation just simply does not work. Forget everything else.... this alone is a worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 8 hours ago, Btay said: I haven't added a lot on this topic but I felt from the start and still feel that our players are not taking any where near the amount of responsibility needed. I accept koeman hasn't had a perfect start however I still don't think he has been bad as it's been made out. He needs to be better yes but equally a lot of our "core" experienced players do as well. Almost all of these lot are his own players now. He doesn't have any excuse in that regard imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 47 minutes ago, Bailey said: Almost all of these lot are his own players now. He doesn't have any excuse in that regard imo. His, or someone else's, they should be doing better and showing more than they are. That's the point Btay is making. Matt, markjazzbassist and Btay 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I made this point about Martinez. seems there could be a deeper problem than just managers. Hard working teams seem to be getting performances and results than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romey 1878 Posted October 6, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Shukes said: I made this point about Martinez. seems there could be a deeper problem than just managers. Hard working teams seem to be getting performances and results than us. You'd think, being the competitive animals sportsmen are, that they wouldn't allow their levels to be as they are. People are making the argument that the manager has lost the dressing room and that the players aren't playing for the manager, as they did when Martinez was manager. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. There's only so much blame a manager can take. Once those players go on to the pitch it's on them for the most part. Players play for themselves, they're very selfish. So I couldn't see them, as a collective, downing tools. Sure, you'll get one or two dickheads who don't give a shit, but they mostly just want to win , and win for themselves. They wouldn't like the stigma of being a loser. Koeman's doing a lot wrong, but serious questions need to be asked about the players and their effort. Bill, Btay, StevO and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: His, or someone else's, they should be doing better and showing more than they are. That's the point Btay is making. I get that but it's all about motivation. If you don't want to play for the person managing you arent going to perform. You don't have the right characters. My point is Koeman brought most of these here, and they almost all said how much they wanted to work for him yet they aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said: You'd think, being the competitive animals sportsmen are, that they wouldn't allow their levels to be as they are. People are making the argument that the manager has lost the dressing room and that the players aren't playing for the manager, as they did when Martinez was manager. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. There's only so much blame a manager can take. Once those players go on to the pitch it's on them for the most part. Players play for themselves, they're very selfish. So I couldn't see them, as a collective, downing tools. Sure, you'll get one or two dickheads who don't give a shit, but they mostly just want to win , and win for themselves. They wouldn't like the stigma of being a loser. Koeman's doing a lot wrong, but serious questions need to be asked about the players and their effort. The players are being sent out handcuffed though.... its absolutely ridiculous to expect them to play under the instructions and formation they are given. We have zero width, no pace, the heat map shows a ridiculously narrow set up with two DM's and players being played out of position. Players who are showing a real desire and passion like Davies and DCL have been dropped or played out of position... Klassen has been found wanting and is getting played, Williams is playing ahead of Jags.... John Joe Kenny on the bench whilst Cuco is playing? As a fan I have no faith in Koeman... the players must be really frustrated. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn balor Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 I give him the next two games. It’s not just the results the football has been horrendous. You can tell the players are pissed off with the formation and lack of movement. I don’t know why he doesn’t play a standard 4-4-2 formation for a few games. Vlasic and lookman on the wings and Rooney alongside DCL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romey 1878 Posted October 6, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, hafnia said: The players are being sent out handcuffed though.... its absolutely ridiculous to expect them to play under the instructions and formation they are given. We have zero width, no pace, the heat map shows a ridiculously narrow set up with two DM's and players being played out of position. Players who are showing a real desire and passion like Davies and DCL have been dropped or played out of position... Klassen has been found wanting and is getting played, Williams is playing ahead of Jags.... John Joe Kenny on the bench whilst Cuco is playing? As a fan I have no faith in Koeman... the players must be really frustrated. Again, Koeman is largely at fault, of course he is, but the players are getting a free pass and that just isn't right. Koeman can't be blamed for Rooney deciding he wants be friends with our CB's and LB. Koeman can't be blamed because Klaassen looks afraid of the ball and shits out of tackles. Koeman isn't to blame because Williams is a fucking melon and Jags is injured. Koeman can be blamed for picking Martina but he can't be blamed for that player deciding he's going to put zero effort in when he does play. Davies has actually looked poor in most of his appearances, Haf, so I certainly haven't been screaming for him to come in for Morgan . The one I'll give you is DCL- that's been handled wrong. What's frustrating is that these players are better than what they're showing despite what problems we have with the manager, but for some reason that's swept under the carpet. Btay, Quinn31, Sibdane and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 6, 2017 Report Share Posted October 6, 2017 Maybe there is a bit of an issue with players not giving their all. After all, sheer effort and commitment is what brought Niasse his recent goals. But there's more to it than that. When Baines run down the left wing, Koeman's setup is such that he has few options when in the opponents' half of the field. As a result, he passes back or to the side. How many times have we seen the midfield pass rather aimlessly because wide options are not there and Koeman's apparent plan is to play into the most crowded areas. For the players, it has to be a case of "damned if you do and damned if you don't": Try to play differently and suffer the wrath of Koeman, or play his way and get nowhere. That must be frustrating and have an effect on morale and hence effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Btay Posted October 7, 2017 Report Share Posted October 7, 2017 On 06/10/2017 at 18:23, Romey 1878 said: You'd think, being the competitive animals sportsmen are, that they wouldn't allow their levels to be as they are. People are making the argument that the manager has lost the dressing room and that the players aren't playing for the manager, as they did when Martinez was manager. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. There's only so much blame a manager can take. Once those players go on to the pitch it's on them for the most part. Players play for themselves, they're very selfish. So I couldn't see them, as a collective, downing tools. Sure, you'll get one or two dickheads who don't give a shit, but they mostly just want to win , and win for themselves. They wouldn't like the stigma of being a loser. Koeman's doing a lot wrong, but serious questions need to be asked about the players and their effort. This is exactly my thoughts. i have said it before many times, I don't expect us to never lose, but when we do it has to be in a manner where we fans can be proud of the effort. Thats been lacking and I truly think a bit of heart and fight these last few weeks would have earnt us enough ( not a lot ) of points to put us in a position that we could say - okay new team is gelling, now let's push on through this favourable run and see where we are and what we can do against the "big boys" second time around. Romey 1878, markjazzbassist and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 I can see this saga ending in Koeman taking over as Holland manager rather than him being sacked or resigning - was looking for odds on him being next Dutch manager but couldn’t find any (didn’t look very thoroughly mind). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 35 minutes ago, c1982 said: I can see this saga ending in Koeman taking over as Holland manager rather than him being sacked or resigning - was looking for odds on him being next Dutch manager but couldn’t find any (didn’t look very thoroughly mind). Good shout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted October 8, 2017 Report Share Posted October 8, 2017 5 hours ago, c1982 said: I can see this saga ending in Koeman taking over as Holland manager rather than him being sacked or resigning - was looking for odds on him being next Dutch manager but couldn’t find any (didn’t look very thoroughly mind). That's a brilliant suggestion. Solves several problems and allows Koeman to save face. I hope someone refers Moshiri to your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Telegraph Sport today links Koeman with the Holland job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 Let's hope it happens. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 13, 2017 Report Share Posted October 13, 2017 59 minutes ago, Palfy said: Let's hope it happens. Agreed. It seems almost serendipitous, allowing us to change managers and for Koeman to save face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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