Liverpool Derby (Our old stadium) Sunday December 10th

[pete0]

That Liverpool team has loads of weaknesses we never tried to exploit their back four and goalie are suspect (minus the left back) we should have been hitting them through the middle  (Henderson is plop) and down their right. But we solely focused on their strength to stop them from countering. They dropped two starters we should have been lifted and got stuck in, yet we barely strung two passes together. Their heads dropped after the pen and instead of punishing them we brought a defender on for a midfielder and settled. They were there for the taking. 

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Maybe they were their to be taken but given that we conceded the first goal I'd have been inclined to stick with the draw rather than twist. Our derby record is abysmal, this draw goes some way to alter that.

It adds another year since we've won at Anfield. It's an equal split with draws/defeats. I'd rather have gone for the jugular. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

Bailey forget this mate I was using that as an example of how hard it is to defend a striker who is at the top of his game and that even Kenny who was probably how best defender struggled to contain him, yet you think that Martina who doesn't play left back and is right footed should have put him in his pocket, then you act like I've had ago at Kenny and come out with another delusional comment that Kenny made only one mistake all game that's total rubbish no one on that pitch made only one mistake, get a grip man your letting your contempt for Martina cloud your judgment, when really it should be fair play to the man for giving it his best and not throwing the towel in when been placed in a awkward position.

Contempt for Martina? Get a grip mate, I am more than fair on any player (I have even given him credit in parts on this thread). 

It's not delusional at all. I am not talking about a mistake like a misplaced pass I am talking about fundamental mistakes that lead to chances or opportunities. Unfortunately Cuco made way way too many.

Salah is in form but he isn't exactly skillfull. He is actually a little clumsy, certainly not the same level as Mane. 

Also see below

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Exactly, he's not a premier league level player. Considering his ability he done well. Positionally playing on the opposite against someone in form would be a nightmare for anyone. Remember Coleman's debut in Portugal. We'd have been better with someone more experienced there or a winger as they're used to being in the other side more. 

He gets out muscled but even if he never goes job is to close the angle try and show him outside. Salary cut in which happens all the time and usually a team mate would be there and the ball would be pinched and cleared without acknowledgement as its school boy stuff. Worst thing is Gana does this every week. He's got no feel for where he's supposed to be on the pitch. 

Conversely Cuco wouldn't have been under pressure in the first place if Gana never done that stupid takle from behind. Cost is a goal and put himself on a yellow. He's a liability. 

It' not even about ability it' about attitude and application.  I can forgive a player that isn't good enough but keeps going and going. 

Cuco isn't good enough and he isn't even professional enough to do the basics. He had given up on that pitch and some of you seem happy to allow that to be the case. 

If I saw one of my mates do that on the 5 a side pitch they would still be gettin a bollocking now. He bottled so many challenges, and ultimately that' what happened for their goal because he wasn' aggressive enough and Salah wanted it more. That has nothing to do with skill.

[Wiggytop]

Did anyone see Williams telling Cuco to man up towards the end, good to see williams having some authority, it's been missing from his game most of the season.

But Cuco is just awful, I've never been so worried when a player gets near the ball as I am with him, he goes into a tackle without any determination to win the ball, he just seems to hit it against the opponents legs every time. He had plenty of opportunity to win the tackle today but failed. We must have a better alternative we can play though the rest of December until the window opens.

[pete0]

The more you see the goal the more you see just how senseless Gana is at defending. Every fucking week he's wrong sided.  

[MikeO]

Great analysis on motd2. Slapped down the pen complaints and highlighted a great performance from Gana.

Rarely agree with Shearer (though I do with Murphy) but both were spot on. 

[Aidan]

52 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The more you see the goal the more you see just how senseless Gana is at defending. Every fucking week he's wrong sided.  

Thought he couldn't do much without provoking a penalty and potential second yellow (I can't remember if he was on on at the time?) 

Either way, it's hard to put the blame on the goal on anyone else other than cuco.

[pete0]

29 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

Thought he couldn't do much without provoking a penalty and potential second yellow (I can't remember if he was on on at the time?) 

Either way, it's hard to put the blame on the goal on anyone else other than cuco.

All Gana has to do is get goal side. Instead he cuts off the angle to stop Salah leaving the area and gives him a clear channel to goal. Gana is more to blame, if he does his job (which was a basic basic defensive positioning) we'd not be talking about Cuco. 

[Bailey]

15 minutes ago, pete0 said:

All Gana has to do is get goal side. Instead he cuts off the angle to stop Salah leaving the area and gives him a clear channel to goal. Gana is more to blame, if he does his job (which was a basic basic defensive positioning) we'd not be talking about Cuco. 

I dont think you can be "more" to blame when you are the second action. If Cuco deals with it then Gana doesnt get involved. Even if Gana saves his arse, we will still be talking about Cuco being weak and timid in the challenge.

I agree that Gana could have dropped back in, and at the very least made Salah go round him instead of inside him but as I say, that's a secondary action.

[pete0]

2 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I dont think you can be "more" to blame when you are the second action. If Cuco deals with it then Gana doesnt get involved. Even if Gana saves his arse, we will still be talking about Cuco being weak and timid in the challenge.

I agree that Gana could have dropped back in, and at the very least made Salah go round him instead of inside him but as I say, that's a secondary action.

Cuco's been done (although it you go to the first action that would be Gana giving the silly fk away). That's to be expected. His teammates should be there to back him up. It really is school boy stuff. I'm baffled how more on his back, even more confused to why it's not been addressed by the coaches. 

[Bailey]

1 minute ago, pete0 said:

Cuco's been done (although it you go to the first action that would be Gana giving the silly fk away). That's to be expected. His teammates should be there to back him up. It really is school boy stuff. I'm baffled how more on his back, even more confused to why it's not been addressed by the coaches. 

The free kick before was silly, he got caught wrong side again, but we were back in our shape afterwards. It was far enough away from our goal to not have a clear link IMO, and we had 2 different actions that could have at the very least, made it more difficult for Salah to score.

I thought he was a lot better with his positioning in general today, he didnt just rush forward and linger there. He pressed and then dropped back into position. He just doesn't have the same sense of danger that a true defensive midfielder should have. He should be thinking "its Cuco, he has pushed out wide leaving a gap, so Ill drop goal side of the ball and fill that area" but instead he ball watches and whilst he tries to react, its too late and Salah is too quick.

[pete0]

9 minutes ago, Bailey said:

The free kick before was silly, he got caught wrong side again, but we were back in our shape afterwards. It was far enough away from our goal to not have a clear link IMO, and we had 2 different actions that could have at the very least, made it more difficult for Salah to score.

I thought he was a lot better with his positioning in general today, he didnt just rush forward and linger there. He pressed and then dropped back into position. He just doesn't have the same sense of danger that a true defensive midfielder should have. He should be thinking "its Cuco, he has pushed out wide leaving a gap, so Ill drop goal side of the ball and fill that area" but instead he ball watches and whilst he tries to react, its too late and Salah is too quick.

It doesn't matter who the LB is. The position should have been filled by Gana. He always sits to far forward or just not in a position in relation to everyone else. 

If you rewatch the game look at Rooney constantly trying to fill gaps defensively. He makes the angles harder. It's noticeable what he's doing as it's not his natural position so he's constantly looking at where his teammates, opposition and the ball are then reacting. He gets caught a few times mainly because of his pace but positional he's doing the job much better than Gana who should be doing it week in week out. 

[rubecula]

pleased as I expected a beating and a half  even during the game.

[pete0]

• The Toffees posted a 21 per cent possession figure in the game, their lowest-ever in a Premier League match since 2003/04 (when Opta started recording possession). 

 

[rubecula]

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

• The Toffees posted a 21 per cent possession figure in the game, their lowest-ever in a Premier League match since 2003/04 (when Opta started recording possession). 

 

the important stats are in the goals column

[markjazzbassist]

Only the second time since 1937 we got a penalty at Anfield 

[rubecula]

5 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

Only the second time since 1937 we got a penalty at Anfield 

[nogs]

Really do think some on hear need to manage their expectations a bit. A point at Anfield is a GREAT result for us at the moment, we were all talking about relegation a fortnight ago. Did anyone really expect a great performance? We haven't had one of them all season. 

For me Allardyce got the starting formation wrong, Rooney cannot play RM. But that shows again how imbalanced the squad is. Like Koeman, like Unsworth, he's searching for a way to make two twos add up to five. We will not see a return to the performances we expect until we overhaul the squad, which means next summer. All we can do in the meantime is try to snatch points off the top 6, who are leagues ahead of us, and beat all the other crap that makes up the rest of the league. Starting with Newcastle on Wednesday

[Sev]

A piss-poor derby. I was embarrassed to watch it. Not giving 'pool three points is however a light in the dark. Well done.

Just can't help thinking about what would have happened if Sam had dared to go for the win, and he should have; it's a bloody derby. Herr Klopp didn't set up the best team and they were somewhat shaken after Rooneys goal.

I'm all for building up confidence into the players, but I really don't want to see EFC play like that.

[MikeO]

11 hours ago, Aidan Lewis said:

Thought he couldn't do much without provoking a penalty and potential second yellow (I can't remember if he was on on at the time?) 

He was on one and I agree.

[Matt]

Looks like i saved myself utter torture yesterday. A points a point, but this better not be how we play in future

[JoeQuince]

Rooney’s goal, as celebrated in NYC yesterday. You’ll find me in the back, frozen in disbelief. 

[nogs]

3 hours ago, Matt said:

Looks like i saved myself utter torture yesterday. A points a point, but this better not be how we play in future

Why? If we go away to any of the top 6 and get a point I'll be delighted. When Atalanta and Southampton were able to humiliate us, and earlier in the season we shipped four to Man U and five at home to Arsenal, yesterday was progress. 

[Aidan]

2 hours ago, JoeQuince said:

Rooney’s goal, as celebrated in NYC yesterday. You’ll find me in the back, frozen in disbelief. 

Awesome! would love to visit a blue pub in the states one day, if I ever got that far.

[JoeQuince]

2 minutes ago, Aidan Lewis said:

Awesome! would love to visit a blue pub in the states one day, if I ever got that far.

Mr. Dennehy’s will probably be the biggest/best. As an American, you are used to seeing large crowds for Arsenal, ManUre, Chelsea, Spurs, and the Shite. So, being in a city with an Everton pub—walking in and seeing everyone in blue; sharing in a love for this club; singing after a good result—it’s magical. 

O’Neal’s in Philadelphia is my regular Everton pub (a brisk 25 minute walk away), and is always great, as well. 

[Matt]

47 minutes ago, nogs said:

Why? If we go away to any of the top 6 and get a point I'll be delighted. When Atalanta and Southampton were able to humiliate us, and earlier in the season we shipped four to Man U and five at home to Arsenal, yesterday was progress. 

No doubt, but must’ve been bloody awkward to watch 

[rubecula]

3 hours ago, JoeQuince said:

Rooney’s goal, as celebrated in NYC yesterday. You’ll find me in the back, frozen in disbelief. 

I like that very much,  I know where I will go for a bevvy in NYC now

[Shukes]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

No doubt, but must’ve been bloody awkward to watch 

You wouldn’t be setting time aside to watch that every week. It was dire.

Only Kenny showed any spirit. Even Niasse wasn’t his usual self. DCL kept going, but that’s about it.

It was one moment of magic from Rooney that wasn’t us a point... who was otherwise slow and lumbersome.

[nyblue23]

5 hours ago, JoeQuince said:

Rooney’s goal, as celebrated in NYC yesterday. You’ll find me in the back, frozen in disbelief. 

Just moved back to the city and can't wait to make it back to Mr. Dennehy's after a two year hiatus. I've been wondering for a while when one of us Americans would bring them up; it's a great pub. Will you be there Wednesday, Joe?

[JoeQuince]

16 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

Just moved back to the city and can't wait to make it back to Mr. Dennehy's after a two year hiatus. I've been wondering for a while when one of us Americans would bring them up; it's a great pub. Will you be there Wednesday, Joe?

I won’t, unfortunately. I’ll be back in Manhattan this weekend, but of course we don’t play until Monday! It is a great pub. O’Neal’s will have to do for this week! (O’Neal’s is great, too. Spoonie O’Neal is my favorite bar owner).

Where were you the past two years?