Palfy Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Just now, Gwlad all over said: When they attack you see something might happen doesn't happen with us That’s because there midfield and defence don’t go missing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Thats it for me this season. I give up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueherts Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Five more home games, brighton, M.city, liverpool, newcastle and southampton. We should win three of them so at least we'll stay up, not have to deal with the horror of finishing seventh or watch fat sam next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 We need eleven Pickfords Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 What a load of rubbish again... Watford were bang average and we were equally as bad. Almost no reaction to going behind as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, milesey05 said: A rest from starting a game- most over rated player in prem No. A rest from playing 30 odd games this season, in February at 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 You know it's bad when your GK has the best chance in the 93rd minute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 6 minutes ago, Shukes said: It’s pretty much died as soon as Niasse went off for us. Cenk needs more time, doesn’t seem to have much energy or pace for the premier yet. Yeh I know what you mean. He had an immediate impact, but after that he couldnt really get on the ball. He didnt do much wrong, he was in good positions, he was looking for the ball, but just couldnt get on it. I think its more a team (ie Allardyce) issue than a player issue, but Niasse at least knows which aimless channels to run in. Im not entirely sure that was the reason though on its own, they made subs too and it means they could test us more at the back and keep the ball better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacitunal Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Shukes said: It’s pretty much died as soon as Niasse went off for us. Cenk needs more time, doesn’t seem to have much energy or pace for the premier yet. Its not about Cenk or Niasse, its about team. There is no playmaker, we respect rooney but he is end. You must carry the ball to Cenk or Niasse. Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Watford manager made decisive decisions to win the game Allardyce didn’t simple as that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueherts Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 That front line (sig/tosun/walcott) should tear teams apart, but without baines and coleman to feed them they may as well be playing in a different stadium. sacitunal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loz Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Fat Sam Little Fat Sam and if need be Big Dunc leave town in May and we can start again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 Can anyone think of a more useless sub appearance than that of Bolasie's today? MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted February 24, 2018 Report Share Posted February 24, 2018 17 minutes ago, Bailey said: Can anyone think of a more useless sub appearance than that of Bolasie's today? Can I phone a friend? Bailey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 I have just watched a replay of the goal back again, albeit only from the point that Kiko is running at us with the ball. I cant remember exactly what happened before that, but I do know that one of the Watford players went for the ball against Rooney and Martina, beat them both to it and had lifted the ball to Kiko. Rooney is out of the game but Martina is able to get back into it and does well to help his defence. From hereon though it shows the frailties in the confidence of our defenders and how either indecisive they are, or just how they dont read the game that well. Its always difficult on the counter attack because you have to make really quick decisions, especially at that level, but the good and confident players make the right ones, ours... well, erm... dont. When Kiko has the ball we are 4 v 5 (we have the 5), albeit Kenny is caught ahead of the ball. Martina gets back in the fold and he is the closest man to Kiko, whilst tracking the run of Okaka. Keane is marking space and should be screaming at Martina to follow the ball, allowing him to track Okaka. Kiko cuts in, Martina stops to tackle him, Keane also stops and Okaka is open and the ball is played easily to him. Gana is more or less in the perfect position at this point as he is tracking back. As the ball gets played into Okaka, Keane has dropped to the near post, 6 yards out marking thin air, Martina is the closest to Okaka but not close enough to block the cross or tackle (due to the indecision with Kiko) and Gana has sprinted across the box into no mans land, right past Kiko who has continued into the box, which is just where Deeney happens to get the ball. Williams is in a good position with Deeney to start with but its almost like he is expecting either someone else to be there, or for the ball to go past Deeney because he hesitates. Deeney gets the ball out of his feet and smashes it past the diving Williams and then Keane who is on Pickfords toes. Gana has also over run the play and he also cant get back in time to stop the shot. Thats my interpretation of the goal, it might not be the same for others but in anyones view you can see that the communication and decisiveness were dreadful. If Martina follows Kiko, as he started to, or even pushed him inside to Gana and then Keane went straight into Okaka as he got the ball, there wouldnt have been a problem. As a defender you know when you should know when you are pushing someone into a space occupied by a teammate. Thats why you spend so long doing drills on the training pitch. Keane just gets himself caught in no mans land, not close enough to anything to make a difference, other than a bad cross that Williams had covered. Gana too had done so well to make the ground up only to get mesmerised by the ball instead of remaining disciplined. In one simple and small decision, that is the difference between him and Barry/McCarthy. In the end Okaka had two to chose from because of that overreaction. Whilst I am here, in hindsight I also have to question the bench and subs. Schneiderlin is a clear like for like for Gana, I get that, no problems there. Bolasie is there for a winger like for like, again I get that. Why dont we have a Klaasen or possibly a Vlasic to replace one of Rooney/Davies? Why do we have two strikers on the bench when we only play 1 up front? We all know Rooney isnt a 90 minute player, and that is also a tag you can give to Davies, so why dont we have a replacement for them on the bench? I can hear some of you say, "you can use Sigurdsson centrally" and I agree, but they why take both him and Rooney off at the same time? Them two and Davies dictate how much of the ball we have. When Rooney flags, chuck Siggy back and bring on a winger, don't sub them both off, for two players who aren't going to control the game in any way. Instead of trying to build pressure in the last few minutes what Sam has done is take off 66% of our quality and brought on a guy to chase lost causes and another who is a lost cause. Even if Vlasic was on the bench, he too can help control a game and would give us a better chance that Bolasie, giving you a chance to go 2 up top if you wanted. Its almost like the subs weren't really thought about or maybe he had such little faith in his tactics that he wanted completely different players on the bench to change things completely if it didn't work? In a similar theme to the goal above, the bench lacked clear thought and decisiveness. It wasn't a bench of someone who expected plan A to work, or maybe even a plan B. It was appeared more of a "use in case of emergencies" bench. plaidharper and Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff the Canadian Bluenose Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 8 hours ago, MikeO said: Can I phone a friend? 8 hours ago, MikeO said: Can I phone a friend? What a load of shit Everton are. Pickford excluded... honestly cannot take it anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff the Canadian Bluenose Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 We have no players in the middle with the combination of bottle and passing ability. Tosun isn’t lost or unfit - he’s just expecting some level of quality/vision from the midfield that just isn’t there. To be honest I feel Tosun could do the job in the midfield as he results in a positive more times than a negative when on the ball. The problem is he’s not on the ball enough. I blame Big Sam 40 for this. We’ll survive this year and hope to stave off regulation next year also. Anyone thinking any different is not watching games nor familiar with entire roster. Dark days at Goodison. Sideliner and sacitunal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 11 hours ago, Bailey said: Can anyone think of a more useless sub appearance than that of Bolasie's today? Bolasie is useless no matter what the appearance - sub or starting. He's just not very good. I bet he's got a load of those protector things on the corners of his furniture at home because he keeps walking into them. Bailey and nyblue23 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggytop Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 10 hours ago, Bailey said: I have just watched a replay of the goal back again, albeit only from the point that Kiko is running at us with the ball. I cant remember exactly what happened before that, but I do know that one of the Watford players went for the ball against Rooney and Martina, beat them both to it and had lifted the ball to Kiko. Rooney is out of the game but Martina is able to get back into it and does well to help his defence. From hereon though it shows the frailties in the confidence of our defenders and how either indecisive they are, or just how they dont read the game that well. Its always difficult on the counter attack because you have to make really quick decisions, especially at that level, but the good and confident players make the right ones, ours... well, erm... dont. When Kiko has the ball we are 4 v 5 (we have the 5), albeit Kenny is caught ahead of the ball. Martina gets back in the fold and he is the closest man to Kiko, whilst tracking the run of Okaka. Keane is marking space and should be screaming at Martina to follow the ball, allowing him to track Okaka. Kiko cuts in, Martina stops to tackle him, Keane also stops and Okaka is open and the ball is played easily to him. Gana is more or less in the perfect position at this point as he is tracking back. As the ball gets played into Okaka, Keane has dropped to the near post, 6 yards out marking thin air, Martina is the closest to Okaka but not close enough to block the cross or tackle (due to the indecision with Kiko) and Gana has sprinted across the box into no mans land, right past Kiko who has continued into the box, which is just where Deeney happens to get the ball. Williams is in a good position with Deeney to start with but its almost like he is expecting either someone else to be there, or for the ball to go past Deeney because he hesitates. Deeney gets the ball out of his feet and smashes it past the diving Williams and then Keane who is on Pickfords toes. Gana has also over run the play and he also cant get back in time to stop the shot. Thats my interpretation of the goal, it might not be the same for others but in anyones view you can see that the communication and decisiveness were dreadful. If Martina follows Kiko, as he started to, or even pushed him inside to Gana and then Keane went straight into Okaka as he got the ball, there wouldnt have been a problem. As a defender you know when you should know when you are pushing someone into a space occupied by a teammate. Thats why you spend so long doing drills on the training pitch. Keane just gets himself caught in no mans land, not close enough to anything to make a difference, other than a bad cross that Williams had covered. Gana too had done so well to make the ground up only to get mesmerised by the ball instead of remaining disciplined. In one simple and small decision, that is the difference between him and Barry/McCarthy. In the end Okaka had two to chose from because of that overreaction. Whilst I am here, in hindsight I also have to question the bench and subs. Schneiderlin is a clear like for like for Gana, I get that, no problems there. Bolasie is there for a winger like for like, again I get that. Why dont we have a Klaasen or possibly a Vlasic to replace one of Rooney/Davies? Why do we have two strikers on the bench when we only play 1 up front? We all know Rooney isnt a 90 minute player, and that is also a tag you can give to Davies, so why dont we have a replacement for them on the bench? I can hear some of you say, "you can use Sigurdsson centrally" and I agree, but they why take both him and Rooney off at the same time? Them two and Davies dictate how much of the ball we have. When Rooney flags, chuck Siggy back and bring on a winger, don't sub them both off, for two players who aren't going to control the game in any way. Instead of trying to build pressure in the last few minutes what Sam has done is take off 66% of our quality and brought on a guy to chase lost causes and another who is a lost cause. Even if Vlasic was on the bench, he too can help control a game and would give us a better chance that Bolasie, giving you a chance to go 2 up top if you wanted. Its almost like the subs weren't really thought about or maybe he had such little faith in his tactics that he wanted completely different players on the bench to change things completely if it didn't work? In a similar theme to the goal above, the bench lacked clear thought and decisiveness. It wasn't a bench of someone who expected plan A to work, or maybe even a plan B. It was appeared more of a "use in case of emergencies" bench. Haven't seen any of the game yet, will do later today, but I did listen to the game, and from what you've put it sounds right. Your final paragraph is also right IMO, and comes from BFS ( big fat Sam) from being a negative and unadventurous manager, just seems to want to sneak a draw or occasionally a result. Bleak times ahead until he goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plaidharper Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 15 hours ago, Bailey said: I have just watched a replay of the goal back again, albeit only from the point that Kiko is running at us with the ball. I cant remember exactly what happened before that, but I do know that one of the Watford players went for the ball against Rooney and Martina, beat them both to it and had lifted the ball to Kiko. Rooney is out of the game but Martina is able to get back into it and does well to help his defence. From hereon though it shows the frailties in the confidence of our defenders and how either indecisive they are, or just how they dont read the game that well. Its always difficult on the counter attack because you have to make really quick decisions, especially at that level, but the good and confident players make the right ones, ours... well, erm... dont. When Kiko has the ball we are 4 v 5 (we have the 5), albeit Kenny is caught ahead of the ball. Martina gets back in the fold and he is the closest man to Kiko, whilst tracking the run of Okaka. Keane is marking space and should be screaming at Martina to follow the ball, allowing him to track Okaka. Kiko cuts in, Martina stops to tackle him, Keane also stops and Okaka is open and the ball is played easily to him. Gana is more or less in the perfect position at this point as he is tracking back. As the ball gets played into Okaka, Keane has dropped to the near post, 6 yards out marking thin air, Martina is the closest to Okaka but not close enough to block the cross or tackle (due to the indecision with Kiko) and Gana has sprinted across the box into no mans land, right past Kiko who has continued into the box, which is just where Deeney happens to get the ball. Williams is in a good position with Deeney to start with but its almost like he is expecting either someone else to be there, or for the ball to go past Deeney because he hesitates. Deeney gets the ball out of his feet and smashes it past the diving Williams and then Keane who is on Pickfords toes. Gana has also over run the play and he also cant get back in time to stop the shot. Thats my interpretation of the goal, it might not be the same for others but in anyones view you can see that the communication and decisiveness were dreadful. If Martina follows Kiko, as he started to, or even pushed him inside to Gana and then Keane went straight into Okaka as he got the ball, there wouldnt have been a problem. As a defender you know when you should know when you are pushing someone into a space occupied by a teammate. Thats why you spend so long doing drills on the training pitch. Keane just gets himself caught in no mans land, not close enough to anything to make a difference, other than a bad cross that Williams had covered. Gana too had done so well to make the ground up only to get mesmerised by the ball instead of remaining disciplined. In one simple and small decision, that is the difference between him and Barry/McCarthy. In the end Okaka had two to chose from because of that overreaction. Whilst I am here, in hindsight I also have to question the bench and subs. Schneiderlin is a clear like for like for Gana, I get that, no problems there. Bolasie is there for a winger like for like, again I get that. Why dont we have a Klaasen or possibly a Vlasic to replace one of Rooney/Davies? Why do we have two strikers on the bench when we only play 1 up front? We all know Rooney isnt a 90 minute player, and that is also a tag you can give to Davies, so why dont we have a replacement for them on the bench? I can hear some of you say, "you can use Sigurdsson centrally" and I agree, but they why take both him and Rooney off at the same time? Them two and Davies dictate how much of the ball we have. When Rooney flags, chuck Siggy back and bring on a winger, don't sub them both off, for two players who aren't going to control the game in any way. Instead of trying to build pressure in the last few minutes what Sam has done is take off 66% of our quality and brought on a guy to chase lost causes and another who is a lost cause. Even if Vlasic was on the bench, he too can help control a game and would give us a better chance that Bolasie, giving you a chance to go 2 up top if you wanted. Its almost like the subs weren't really thought about or maybe he had such little faith in his tactics that he wanted completely different players on the bench to change things completely if it didn't work? In a similar theme to the goal above, the bench lacked clear thought and decisiveness. It wasn't a bench of someone who expected plan A to work, or maybe even a plan B. It was appeared more of a "use in case of emergencies" bench. Indeed. Great analysis again Bailey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 Another great away day, boss atmosphere in the Everton end. It’s just a good job I’m way past letting yet another piss poor performance from the players and manager ruin the trip DavisJD and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said: Another great away day, boss atmosphere in the Everton end. It’s just a good job I’m way past letting yet another piss poor performance from the players and manager ruin the trip Wouldn’t it be good if the people you speak of had the same attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted February 25, 2018 Report Share Posted February 25, 2018 17 hours ago, Bailey said: I have just watched a replay of the goal back again, albeit only from the point that Kiko is running at us with the ball. I cant remember exactly what happened before that, but I do know that one of the Watford players went for the ball against Rooney and Martina, beat them both to it and had lifted the ball to Kiko. Rooney is out of the game but Martina is able to get back into it and does well to help his defence. From hereon though it shows the frailties in the confidence of our defenders and how either indecisive they are, or just how they dont read the game that well. Its always difficult on the counter attack because you have to make really quick decisions, especially at that level, but the good and confident players make the right ones, ours... well, erm... dont. When Kiko has the ball we are 4 v 5 (we have the 5), albeit Kenny is caught ahead of the ball. Martina gets back in the fold and he is the closest man to Kiko, whilst tracking the run of Okaka. Keane is marking space and should be screaming at Martina to follow the ball, allowing him to track Okaka. Kiko cuts in, Martina stops to tackle him, Keane also stops and Okaka is open and the ball is played easily to him. Gana is more or less in the perfect position at this point as he is tracking back. As the ball gets played into Okaka, Keane has dropped to the near post, 6 yards out marking thin air, Martina is the closest to Okaka but not close enough to block the cross or tackle (due to the indecision with Kiko) and Gana has sprinted across the box into no mans land, right past Kiko who has continued into the box, which is just where Deeney happens to get the ball. Williams is in a good position with Deeney to start with but its almost like he is expecting either someone else to be there, or for the ball to go past Deeney because he hesitates. Deeney gets the ball out of his feet and smashes it past the diving Williams and then Keane who is on Pickfords toes. Gana has also over run the play and he also cant get back in time to stop the shot. Thats my interpretation of the goal, it might not be the same for others but in anyones view you can see that the communication and decisiveness were dreadful. If Martina follows Kiko, as he started to, or even pushed him inside to Gana and then Keane went straight into Okaka as he got the ball, there wouldnt have been a problem. As a defender you know when you should know when you are pushing someone into a space occupied by a teammate. Thats why you spend so long doing drills on the training pitch. Keane just gets himself caught in no mans land, not close enough to anything to make a difference, other than a bad cross that Williams had covered. Gana too had done so well to make the ground up only to get mesmerised by the ball instead of remaining disciplined. In one simple and small decision, that is the difference between him and Barry/McCarthy. In the end Okaka had two to chose from because of that overreaction. Whilst I am here, in hindsight I also have to question the bench and subs. Schneiderlin is a clear like for like for Gana, I get that, no problems there. Bolasie is there for a winger like for like, again I get that. Why dont we have a Klaasen or possibly a Vlasic to replace one of Rooney/Davies? Why do we have two strikers on the bench when we only play 1 up front? We all know Rooney isnt a 90 minute player, and that is also a tag you can give to Davies, so why dont we have a replacement for them on the bench? I can hear some of you say, "you can use Sigurdsson centrally" and I agree, but they why take both him and Rooney off at the same time? Them two and Davies dictate how much of the ball we have. When Rooney flags, chuck Siggy back and bring on a winger, don't sub them both off, for two players who aren't going to control the game in any way. Instead of trying to build pressure in the last few minutes what Sam has done is take off 66% of our quality and brought on a guy to chase lost causes and another who is a lost cause. Even if Vlasic was on the bench, he too can help control a game and would give us a better chance that Bolasie, giving you a chance to go 2 up top if you wanted. Its almost like the subs weren't really thought about or maybe he had such little faith in his tactics that he wanted completely different players on the bench to change things completely if it didn't work? In a similar theme to the goal above, the bench lacked clear thought and decisiveness. It wasn't a bench of someone who expected plan A to work, or maybe even a plan B. It was appeared more of a "use in case of emergencies" bench. Bailey very interesting points you made particularly on the subs never really considered that until you brought it up, thinking about it my thoughts are pretty close to yours. If I felt Garbutt was good enough to go on the bench then I would have played him and put Cuco on the bench as cover for him and Kenny, like you I would have had Klaassen on the bench and dropped either Tosun or DCL, Klaassen as you said would have been a natural replacement for Rooney. Then do you go with Bolasie or Vlasic for me neither I would opt for Beni as he would be a natural replacement for Davies, and if there was an injury to either of the wide men you could revert to a 442. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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