Manchester City (Home) Saturday September 28th

[Cornish Steve]

What we need is Moyes as defensive coach and Martinez as offensive coach, working together to capitalize on their strengths. We'd be solid at the back, scoring like crazy, and playing entertaining football. RIght now, we're in the mode that even a handful of players putting in effort leads us to claim we did well, and that's not good enough. We thought we had an easy start to this season, but look at our position in the league.

[Cornish Steve]

11 minutes ago, nogs said:

We've been a mess defensively since Koeman. Only conclusion I can make is the CBs we keep signing aren't good enough. 

Actually, I think the players are strong. Aren't they all internationals? It's poor coaching.

[Cake]

He isn’t the sole reason we lost but Pickford needs a rest..... a long rest.  He really isn’t that good.  Give Lossl a go.

[Tonsta]

39 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Actually, I think the players are strong. Aren't they all internationals? It's poor coaching.

All internationals,there strong and not kids and you think its the coaching, interesting.

[Keith B]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Good first half, then the inevitable. Silva's got 3 games for me. I know there are injuries in midfield but keeping Schneiderlin as a starter is unacceptable. And he has a big decision to make about Sigurdsson too. Just not good enough atm. 

I think he has through the Anfield derby to turn it around. Away to Burnley, home with West Ham, away to Brighton, home to Spurs, away to Soton, home for Norwich, and away to LCFC. There are lots of points on offer there. I think 12 out of 18 is reasonable.  If he hasn't picked up a load of points, his last match will be a loss away in the Derby on December 4th. Of course, no matter the results, a win away at Anfield and he's safe for awhile.

[nogs]

29 minutes ago, Keith B said:

I think he has through the Anfield derby to turn it around. Away to Burnley, home with West Ham, away to Brighton, home to Spurs, away to Soton, home for Norwich, and away to LCFC. There are lots of points on offer there. I think 12 out of 18 is reasonable.  If he hasn't picked up a load of points, his last match will be a loss away in the Derby on December 4th. Of course, no matter the results, a win away at Anfield and he's safe for awhile.

So what would you think about 2 points from the next 9? His problem isn't today. Its the fact we've already lost to Villa, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd. 

Cornish Steve - does the fact that Keane gets picked for his country somehow disguise the fact he is prone to bad errors? For club and country? Mina - overhyped too young? I keep saying it, we're signing the wrong type of player and we're suffering coz of it. 

[Gwlad]

Uber disappointed with Pickford today. He's really got it in his head that he's England's No 1 so invincible. ~###intenational break again soon, maybe Southgate will slap him down?

[Sibdane]

Hard to slate Pickford too much with it being Man City, but yeah, the keeping on that second goal wasn't good.

I hate to say it, but I feel like he's digressed since his first season here (and after the last World Cup).

[Finn balor]

The second goal was Sunday league. The fact that he started laughing after he got away with a mistake like he did at Newcastle like he was proud of himself . 

[barryj]

Where was Seamus today? It certainly wasn’t the player we’ve seen the rest of the season in the No.23 shirt. I was starting to write him off and then he put in a superb performance today. 

[Keith B]

2 hours ago, nogs said:

So what would you think about 2 points from the next 9? His problem isn't today. Its the fact we've already lost to Villa, Bournemouth and Sheff Utd. 

Cornish Steve - does the fact that Keane gets picked for his country somehow disguise the fact he is prone to bad errors? For club and country? Mina - overhyped too young? I keep saying it, we're signing the wrong type of player and we're suffering coz of it. 

I obviously don't think it would be very good! In my very honest, but partly drunk, opinion, the season is already lost. We've already dropped too many points against beatable sides. I don't think we can finish top 6, so the question for me is if Marco can go on a run of 20 or so matches where the team has success coupled with a coherent tactical plan A and B. I think we are way too talented to really face relegation. I also don't think it makes much sense to fire a manager in the middle of a season simply to finish 11 rather than, say 14th. 

Ultimately, I'm out on Silva. I don't think he's the guy. But I'm also not trying to overreact. I could be wrong about him.

 

[Finn balor]

We are deffo behind Leicester,Chelsea, Arsenal and united 

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

We are deffo behind Leicester,Chelsea, Arsenal and united 

We are behind a few more that. 

[Finn balor]

Yeah unfortunately you are right 

[Aidan]

This game doesn't define our recent demise, rather than just back it up. Expected to lose today, however expected to lose in a worse manner. One thing is clear, sigurdsson is a clear weak link and iwobi offers more in that central position. 

[Palfy]

Although Gylfi didn’t have a outstanding game I felt he probably had his best game this season, which only highlights how poor he’s been in recent weeks, if he had had the presence of mind to take his chance one on one with the keeper with his head it would have made it very different game. 

Bar the result there was a lot of positives, we worked as a team and put the hard work in, which lifted the crowd and the old lady was rocking, we need to build on the effort and shape shown in the next game. 

If we don’t get something from the next couple of games you have to fear for Silva’s future at this club. 

[Romey 1878]

It's weird to say this but City taking the lead helped us massively. Until that point we were fucking atrocious and I feared a heavy, heavy defeat. But the goal woke us up and we started to play football, remember how to pass to team mates, move off the ball, move the ball quicker and actually create openings. We had them rattled and fully deserved the equaliser and I honestly felt that we were looking like being the more likely to get a second goal. If that would have happened I think City would have been in big trouble. But, once again, we shot ourselves in the foot and ended up beating ourselves. I'm so disappointed with their second goal - Pickford should not be getting beaten on his side of the goal. You have a wall for a fucking reason - trust it! If the ball goes through them then you bollock them for it afterwards.

The sad thing is if we'd played like we did yesterday in our other games this season then the defeat yesterday wouldn't be seen as such a big problem.

We desperately need to cut out the mistakes because most of our defeats this season have come due to our own ineptitude.

[Wiggytop]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's weird to say this but City taking the lead helped us massively. Until that point we were fucking atrocious and I feared a heavy, heavy defeat. But the goal woke us up and we started to play football, remember how to pass to team mates, move off the ball, move the ball quicker and actually create openings

Totally agree, we looked nervous and totally lacking in confidence until they scored which I guess is understandable after the last two games, then for some reason we gained some self belief, if Siggy had lifted his flick in to the net the game would have been totally different. We all feared a heavy defeat yesterday, but I don't think we suffered one, hope that we go into next Saturday with some self belief and confidence.

[Bailey]

I am not going to lie but I was disappointed with yesterday's performance. Yes it may have looked better than our previous games but this was a game we should have relished the challenge and put them under all sorts of problems at the back. We did create chances, albeit mainly from set pieces, but we shipped far too many against a misfiring City and the biggest problem for me is that we were filled with individual mistakes yet again.

Pickford should have done better with the 2nd goal. He shouldn't be beaten at that part of his goal, regardless of whether he was unsighted or not. I thought he did well enough with the ball back to him at the end because that was an awful ball and he stopped the attacker scoring. It looked ugly because it was but they didnt score or come close to as a result. The negativity around his reaction is a bit ridiculous. He isn't laughing because its funny, its more of a "we got away with that". You see him week in week out screaming at people. He is serious about his job but that's how he reacts to his own sticky situations. Some of his kicking in this game was also sublime.

Its a bit of a surprise that Digne has escaped criticism. Their first chance came from him charging out of position and not winning the ball and their first goal cam from him diving in and then not getting back and marking KDB (whilst Delph was covering him). The rest of the game was largely solid but it was a poor start.

Mina and Keane had their troubles. I have a little sympathy for Keane in that playing with Mina must be quite hard because he is very unorthodox. At times he comes flying out of the line, he almost covers runners at a delayed moment and then risks fouling them to get back in (although I thought he did really well yesterday) and he makes some odd looking diving in, two footed tackles/blocks. It must be more difficult for Keane because he is so straight laced. I didn't think he had a bad game though, got caught out for the first but it was a very good ball and good run, but I think its very clear to see that they aren't a strong CB partnership.

Coleman had a very mixed game IMO. On the ball he was great, his runs forward were superb and the goal he scored was fantastic. On the other hand when the ball came down his side I thought he was going to be smoked. They had a lot of joy down that channel. The Sterling chance was down to him just stopping instead of following him in.

The midfied two had a very difficult time. Due to the way we set up (which I intend to get onto later) they were trying to cover 3 or 4 players on almost every attack. They did a pretty good job all told and I amazed to see some people still slagging off Schneiderlin. The problem they both have is that they are both slow. In one of their first attacks, Delph was chasing KDB and the latter was pulling away. They have no recovery pace and for all of their qualities which they showed yesterday, against a mobile attacking unit, which we saw to the largest effect in the first 15-20 mins, they just had to sit deep and chase shadows. When they could get their foot in they did though and when they could play the ball forward they did.

Siggy was deployed in his usual role but because he had more space to play in, he played well. He should have got a better shot off with his first chance but his second chance was a tough one. The run he made for the latter was impressive though and it was a great ball from Iwobi to pick him out. I was most impressed with his defensive effort in which he had very little help from DCL. He was all over Rodri and then when one of the CBs tried moving the ball forward he sprinted across to close them down but unfortunately DCL didn't move himself across to pick up Rodri afterwards. Whenever a move broke down it was him sprinting back to get back into position too. He gets a lot of stick but he is a quality player who plays the game properly. I would love to play alongside a player like that.

The two wingers had mixed games, more so in Iwobi's case. Iwobi had moments of brilliance, but then largely didnt affect the game enough in the standard phases of play and he actually looked a bit slow and cumbersome. It would have been a perfect game for Bernard so its a shame he was out but I don't know why Walcott was picked to start. Richarlison had a good game though, constantly trying to get at City, had one hard headed chance that was behind him and he played some quality passes too. He was also one of the first to get back when things went tits up.

DCL had a mixed game too. I was expected him to trouble the City CB' a little more albeit the more the game went on the more he troubled them. He stole the goal from Coleman but I dont mind that, although I would have if he was offside! He had a couple of other good chances that he couldn't convert which you need to in any game but definitely in a game like this. I dont know if he was told to work with Siggy defensively or not but I was disappointed that he wasnt doing more to help his teammates in their defensive shape. Its one of the reasons he gets in the team. Some of his touches were Lukaku-esque as well, which stopped us getting up the pitch.

Of the subs, Davies came on and looked lively enough. He saw some good passes but overhit them both, one by a little bit and one by a lot. Kean came on and didnt have much of a chance after being left out on the right wing. He did well enough with the times he got the ball. He can certainly beat his man.

Silva was probably the one I was most disappointed with. He basically left the midfield out to dry by playing the way we did. They had no chance when City stepped up the pace. As soon as they were past Siggy and DCL which was fairly easy as only one of them was defending properly, we were 6 v 6 or worse depending on whether a full back came forward and our winger didn't. Against City that is such hard work and I am not sure why he thought that would work. City play so wide and that meant the gap between the two centre mids was huge at times. Delph would often be in the left hand channel and then Schndeiderlin would be right of centre and it was giving us a problem every time but we got away with it a lot. I don't think he actually wanted DCL to move across to Rodri either, he didn't hook him nor did he have words from the touchline. Then you have the introduction of Walcott into the starting 11 but then I think we would have been really more route one. Sitting deeper and deeper and launching balls for DCL to win. Our best play came from playing through City and then mixing it up with a long ball to get a breather, winning corners or free kicks. I am under no illusions that we could have played better and still lost, but that game was a massive chance, they won't be as bad as that again.

[Palfy]

I think we did give them problems at the back, but our Achilles heel of not being able to convert our chances bit us in the arse again. 

[Finn balor]

Even Guardiola commented on how “sublime” city were at times yesterday. I don’t think it’s an even playing field against them if I’m honest and I thought at times we matched them. We just aren’t ruthless enough with converting our chances and we shoot ourselves in the foot defensively. At 1-1 Marco should have made a positive change to try and win the game not waiting for them to score then immediately putting kean on and playing him outwide!

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

I am amazed to see some people still slagging off Schneiderlin.

I'm amazed to see anyone defending him. He's a glaring weak link. Slow, doesn't dominate the middle of the park defensively/physically, offers next to nothing creatively or defensively. Our win ratio with him starting is appalling. I reckon I could name a better midfield player ar every other Premier league club. 

You mention Silva leaving Delph and Schneiderlin out to dry in midfield. Well that's the issue with playing Sigurdsson. You say he did his defensive duties well, but he plays too high up the pitch. I just don't think the 4-2-3-1 we tend to play works when most teams play three a genuine three in midfield. We need an extra body dropping back, that has to be Sigurdsson or someone better suited to doing it. 

[Bailey]

3 minutes ago, nogs said:

I'm amazed to see anyone defending him. He's a glaring weak link. Slow, doesn't dominate the middle of the park defensively/physically, offers next to nothing creatively or defensively. Our win ratio with him starting is appalling. I reckon I could name a better midfield player ar every other Premier league club. 

You mention Silva leaving Delph and Schneiderlin out to dry in midfield. Well that's the issue with playing Sigurdsson. You say he did his defensive duties well, but he plays too high up the pitch. I just don't think the 4-2-3-1 we tend to play works when most teams play three a genuine three in midfield. We need an extra body dropping back, that has to be Sigurdsson or someone better suited to doing it. 

Defending him? He played well, not for the first time this season either. I have made it clear that I don't particularly like him as a footballer as I too think he has limitations, and ones that dont really suit our style of play, but he played very well in a tough game. He broke up the game, he passed the ball well and did the job Silva would have expected from him. I could name better midfielders in our side too, but unfortunately they are injured and that is why he is playing.

I completely agree that it is the issue with playing Siggy in that position. In the second half there was a passage of play where Siggy won the ball about 30-40 yards out, turned and was able to feed DCL into the channel where he was able to beat Otamendi and win the freekick and get the City player booked. That should be the space he occupies and not 20 yards further forward IMO. I also think that it would then be easier for a single pivot DM to cover where the opponent attack dictates rather than the two we have being pulled apart as they are being overrun. It would also mean that the fullbacks have to be a little more responsible and read the game situation better and in turn the wingers will need to stay wider for longer in order to keep our width in attack but I consider that to be a positive.

[Finn balor]

I agree with the first paragraph Bailey you lost me in the second though . I’m not Morgan’s biggest fan by a long shot but he played really well yesterday and in the first half in particular his positive passing started some good moves for us. 

[nogs]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Defending him? He played well, not for the first time this season either. I have made it clear that I don't particularly like him as a footballer as I too think he has limitations, and ones that dont really suit our style of play, but he played very well in a tough game. He broke up the game, he passed the ball well and did the job Silva would have expected from him. I could name better midfielders in our side too, but unfortunately they are injured and that is why he is playing.

I completely agree that it is the issue with playing Siggy in that position. In the second half there was a passage of play where Siggy won the ball about 30-40 yards out, turned and was able to feed DCL into the channel where he was able to beat Otamendi and win the freekick and get the City player booked. That should be the space he occupies and not 20 yards further forward IMO. I also think that it would then be easier for a single pivot DM to cover where the opponent attack dictates rather than the two we have being pulled apart as they are being overrun. It would also mean that the fullbacks have to be a little more responsible and read the game situation better and in turn the wingers will need to stay wider for longer in order to keep our width in attack but I consider that to be a positive.

My frustration with Sigurdsson - and Schneiderlin for that matter - is we're seeing exactly the same problems in midfield we saw two years ago under Koeman. It was crap then and its crap now. How have we not moved on, tactically and in terms of personnel, two managers later? 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Mostly encouraged but why can’t we play like that against the relegation candidates?

Impressed by Mina more than anyone. 

Been calling for the Schneiderlin ax for years but today was an unfortunate reminder he’s still better than Davies. Davies was a headless chicken when he came on and that’s being kind. 

Swap the keepers and I think we win that game 2-1. 

DCL is not the predatory striker that Kean is but right now he gives us a better chance to win games. 

This game cemented my thoughts on Keane. Seems a great lad but same issues over and over again. I doubt he will ever be good enough for where we aspire to be. 

[Matt]

On 28/09/2019 at 21:04, nogs said:

We've been a mess defensively since Koeman. Only conclusion I can make is the CBs we keep signing aren't good enough. 

Didn’t we concede the third least in the 2019 part of last season?

[Bailey]

20 hours ago, nogs said:

My frustration with Sigurdsson - and Schneiderlin for that matter - is we're seeing exactly the same problems in midfield we saw two years ago under Koeman. It was crap then and its crap now. How have we not moved on, tactically and in terms of personnel, two managers later? 

I share the same frustration to be fair, well with Siggy anyway. As I have said before Schneiderlin wouldn't play in a fully fit side. 

The only reasoning I can think of is that Siggy is the main "creative" player we have and he was bought for a tonne of money. Everyone seems to think, including most on here for that matter, that such a player needs to play as a number 10. We get the same shouts with Bernard and also with Iwobi. It's just a waste of a position in modern day football and every manager we have had for as long as I can remember wants to use one. At least with Moyes it wasn't a creative position!