Carlo Ancelotti

[Zoo 2.0]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Bringing Davies on wound have been more of a signal he was holding out for a draw than bringing Delph on, Delph of the 2 on paper has the better chance of creating something with ability on the ball. 

I assume (and hope) you're on the wind up?

[Palfy]

Just now, Zoo 2.0 said:

I assume (and hope) you're on the wind up?

Not at all Davies isn’t going to pick out a defence splitting passes, he doesn’t really have that in his game, he’s going to work his arse off and break their game up but he’s not going to provide a magic moment, were as poor as Delph is he still has that ability to see something and execute it, he was definitely not brought on to defend the draw. 

[Zoo 2.0]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Not at all Davies isn’t going to pick out a defence splitting passes, he doesn’t really have that in his game, he’s going to work his arse off and break their game up but he’s not going to provide a magic moment, were as poor as Delph is he still has that ability to see something and execute it, he was definitely not brought on to defend the draw. 

Neither is Delph.

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Btay said:

My growing concern though is his apparent fondness of Delph. I don’t understand how he can rate him and I don’t want us to sign anymore players of similar level

Our perception of Delph as fans may not be the reality of him as a player.  I don't like him but I also think Carlo is using games to suss them out.  

Technically Delph isn't a bad player.... He just isn't.  I think a few players are getting last chances and he's one of them. 

 

[Palfy]

46 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

Neither is Delph.

Well like I said the manager made the decision, and if he made it for the reasons that I think he did then I would have done the same, it isn’t a competition about who is the best player, management is about who the manager thinks will influence the game more at that particular moment, but if like Rom you believe he put Delph on to take a draw, then you should both be asking for his head, I know 100% if I believed that I would be screaming from the roof of the Old Lady for him to be sacked. 
I’ll continue to believe he was trying to win the game with his substitutions because he new only a win would help us get to where he is trying to get us. 

[Romey 1878]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

So what do you achieve by questioning him what questions are you going to ask him? If you are not prepared to ask for his head and  you think he’s getting a free ride because of who he is, then you are just sitting on the fence, if it was your company and you just said that about your shop floor manager and did nothing you would look weak to the rest of your workforce, so if you think he’s getting a free ride and it’s wrong what do you do to stop it if not sacking him. 

Questioning someone doesn’t men calling for their head. That’s ridiculous.

For starters - why do you continually set us up the exact same way at home despite it clearly not working? Why do you persist with Iwobi when he’s adding fuck all? Why play Holgate when you don’t have to and he’s having a shocking season? Why make negative subs? And subs that often don’t change a thing from the game plan that isn’t working in the first place? What are you going to do to fix an embarrassing home record?

I don’t do sitting on the fence.

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Questioning someone doesn’t men calling for their head. That’s ridiculous.

For starters - why do you continually set us up the exact same way at home despite it clearly not working? Why do you persist with Iwobi when he’s adding fuck all? Why play Holgate when you don’t have to and he’s having a shocking season? Why make negative subs? And subs that often don’t change a thing from the game plan that isn’t working in the first place? What are you going to do to fix an embarrassing home record?

I don’t do sitting on the fence.

So you think our manager is responsible for all those issues, he plays a 433 players permitting like most teams home and away. 
He doesn’t persist with Iwobi Iwobi was on the bench until James got injured warming up, yet he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch. I’m guessing he played Holgate because Keane isn’t fit and Mina wasn’t quite ready to start so didn’t take the risk most of Holgate’s starts have been as cover because of injuries, who would you rather he play there yesterday? He has made negative subs in games we were winning in the past I will grant you that and they have backfired, yesterday wasn’t one. 
 Well I hope you get your audience with him so you can tell him he’s getting a free ride, why aren’t you condemning Brand’s for buying Delph and Iwobi in your eyes the to worse players in the team, there’s quite a few players you dislike that weren’t brought in by Ancelotti, he can only play with what he as inherited, I can see that players who have joined since he arrived are mark up on those that were already here, and I believe those that come next season will also be of a better quality and players like Delph Davies Gylfi Iwobi Bernard and Gomes will struggle to get a start and some won’t even make the bench, I don’t think he’s got a free ride I think an impossible task to get this squad of players into the top six yet have he nearly or may achieve it.

For me calling a manager negative and saying is substitution of Delph was to protect a draw in a game we had to win, and then making the accusation that he has been given a free ride doesn’t had up when you then say getting rid of him would be absurd.

 

[Romey 1878]

Long story short, I can feel as though Ancelotti has made mistakes without wanting rid of him. It’s not difficult. 

[Btay]

22 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Long story short, I can feel as though Ancelotti has made mistakes without wanting rid of him. It’s not difficult. 

Exactly. Fantastic manager and grateful to have him but not above criticism 

[Palfy]

35 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Long story short, I can feel as though Ancelotti has made mistakes without wanting rid of him. It’s not difficult. 

Of course you can, but how do you make him pay for his free ride, the only way I’ve ever seen a manager pay for his mistakes is by losing his job. 

[Hafnia]

Lads, the top and bottom of all this is that we want the best for our club obviously.

How many managers need sacking before people start looking at the players? It's as though managers get sacked and the fans hope the next fella comes along and waves a magic wand.

I do hold Carlo accountable for a chunk of the performances.... I'd ask him why he doesn't throw the fuckers under a bus but that's my anger as a fan wanting revenge on the players.   

My feeling is that he is playing a patient game and knows the players he's got aren't good enough.  He will hopefully be making this abundantly clear in meetings with Brands.  

I'm pretty sure he looks at the games and reviews them. He doesn't throw the players under a bus and that's how he gets loyalty. 

We need to look at the summer signings but we are absolutely right to be pissed off with what we see. 

 

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Questioning someone doesn’t men calling for their head. That’s ridiculous.

For starters - why do you continually set us up the exact same way at home despite it clearly not working? Why do you persist with Iwobi when he’s adding fuck all? Why play Holgate when you don’t have to and he’s having a shocking season? Why make negative subs? And subs that often don’t change a thing from the game plan that isn’t working in the first place? What are you going to do to fix an embarrassing home record?

I don’t do sitting on the fence.

I think the questions need to be a lot more basic than that. What type of football is Ancellotti trying to play? Do we want to press high or sit deep? Do we want to dominate possession or do we want to play on the counter attack and if we are countering, are we playing through midfield or are we going long? 

I honestly couldn't tell you what we are trying to achieve. That is what I really struggle with. Silva was the same in that you just couldnt see what the plan was. 

I have been quite vocal in that I really do not like the football we have been playing. This sitting deep, almost playing for draws/set piece goals doesnt sit with me at all. Ironically, that is a mile away from what I expected from Ancellotti because he has been known for his high press, attacking football. 

In respect of the comments about the players, how many players that started yesterday arent good enough to play how we need to? There is no reason that they can't press as a group. There is enough pace in that back 4 to press high and squeeze the game. Sometimes it can be difficult to create chances, but its very easy to do the basics and we arent doing that. This comes down to the work on the training ground. 

 

[c1982]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

In respect of the comments about the players, how many players that started yesterday arent good enough to play how we need to? There is no reason that they can't press as a group. There is enough pace in that back 4 to press high and squeeze the game. Sometimes it can be difficult to create chances, but its very easy to do the basics and we arent doing that. This comes down to the work on the training ground. 

 

Our problem and it has been ever since Gueye left is midfield. I can’t say we never replaced Gueye because we did with Gbamin but we’ve really struggled in this area and have had no consistency whatsoever with Gomes’ awful injury, Delph rarely playing, Davies still learning - this season with Allan and even Doucoure. I think Ancelotti knows this is a massive weakness so has often gone more defensive and to be fair, got points. Look at the Villa 3 of McGinn, Luiz and Barkley and you’ve got so much more energy and balance than Allan, Gomes and Sigurdsson. Davies probably should have started but even then... it’s a different story when Doucoure and James are in with Allan but we need to address this area desperately. I’d happily sell Gomes and Sigurdsson (and Iwobi) to replace with pace, strength and energy.

[StevO]

17 hours ago, Palfy said:

Of course you can, but how do you make him pay for his free ride, the only way I’ve ever seen a manager pay for his mistakes is by losing his job. 

He doesn’t need to pay for the free ride, that isn’t the point Mark is making. He’s made mistakes, but he has repeated these mistakes. It would be nice for him to try something different. Hopefully by the summer a few players will have left and we won’t have the option to play Iwobi or Delph, but I don’t see anyone buying them. So please, less of these mistakes. 

[Palfy]

On 02/05/2021 at 08:23, Romey 1878 said:

 

1 win in 10 at home is a disgrace and if it was any of our other managers he would be getting questioned big time, but because of who he is he's getting a free ride and I think that's wrong.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, StevO said:

He doesn’t need to pay for the free ride, that isn’t the point Mark is making. He’s made mistakes, but he has repeated these mistakes. It would be nice for him to try something different. Hopefully by the summer a few players will have left and we won’t have the option to play Iwobi or Delph, but I don’t see anyone buying them. So please, less of these mistakes. 

That doesn’t read as you have just said.

Yes it is the players and the players he didn’t bring into the club that are letting him down, he doesn’t need to prove himself to anyone at Everton, he has been successful at far bigger clubs than us with far bigger pressures, he has a proven system that works and his successful history as proven it works, he’s not going to change his beliefs because the players he as inherited can’t perform he’s going to change the players, he’s not here to fit the players needs he’s here to get the players to fit his needs.

So for me all this free ride nonsense because of who he is is bollocks, he’s not on a free ride he’s on a process of moulding a team into his values and beliefs, he’s one year into his challenge made harder by some of the players brought in by Walsh and Brand’s, but for me he is our best chance in years to achieve something at this club as long as he gets sole say on first team acquisitions and the complete backing of the club. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I still have 100% trust in Carlo, the players he has brought in have all been successful signings bar maybe King who was always just a stop gap anyway, the problem is we haven’t got them on the pitch often enough due to injuries which has meant Carlo has had to pick from basically the same shower of shite that have failed so miserably under Koeman, Martinez and Alardyce so it’s little wonder that they have let him down

As for Delph I honestly don’t think he is as bad as people are making out, he is not the answer by a long stretch however he is no worse than Davies, Gomes and Siggy who have all been given plenty of chances to stake a claim and all failed to do so on a consistent basis so why not give Delph a go?

[Matt]

12 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

I still have 100% trust in Carlo, the players he has brought in have all been successful signings bar maybe King who was always just a stop gap anyway, the problem is we haven’t got them on the pitch often enough due to injuries which has meant Carlo has had to pick from basically the same shower of shite that have failed so miserably under Koeman, Martinez and Alardyce so it’s little wonder that they have let him down

As for Delph I honestly don’t think he is as bad as people are making out, he is not the answer by a long stretch however he is no worse than Davies, Gomes and Siggy who have all been given plenty of chances to stake a claim and all failed to do so on a consistent basis so why not give Delph a go?

Because he is so much worse than the 3 you mentioned. If he was even capable of putting a run together without getting injured or suspended,  maybe I'd be proven wrong but since that's not happened and shows no sign of happening we can only judge him as the walking liability that he is. 

[Bailey]

18 hours ago, c1982 said:

Our problem and it has been ever since Gueye left is midfield. I can’t say we never replaced Gueye because we did with Gbamin but we’ve really struggled in this area and have had no consistency whatsoever with Gomes’ awful injury, Delph rarely playing, Davies still learning - this season with Allan and even Doucoure. I think Ancelotti knows this is a massive weakness so has often gone more defensive and to be fair, got points. Look at the Villa 3 of McGinn, Luiz and Barkley and you’ve got so much more energy and balance than Allan, Gomes and Sigurdsson. Davies probably should have started but even then... it’s a different story when Doucoure and James are in with Allan but we need to address this area desperately. I’d happily sell Gomes and Sigurdsson (and Iwobi) to replace with pace, strength and energy.

I get that those players may not be our best midfield but we have been outplayed by a lot of other inferior midfields. 

I do agree that a lack of consistency has hurt us but our problems are bigger than just players. 

[StevO]

To be clear, there isn’t a single Evertonian on here who wants Carlo to be sacked, ridiculed, punished, or anything negative. 
But if another manager had some of the bad results he’s had they would get plenty of stick, and that’s fine, it happens. But at the same time these managers probably wouldn’t have won at Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs. 
Being happy with Carlo and happy with every decision he makes are not mutually exclusive. 
I absolutely love the man, I’m made up we’ve got him, doesn’t mean I’m not pissed to see Delph come on before Davies, or Iwobi start before Bernard. I trust the guy, but I can still be unhappy with some of his choices. 
I want the club to give him exactly what he wants in the summer and I believe he will take the club forward. The club is in good hands with him, but he’s not perfect. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I get that those players may not be our best midfield but we have been outplayed by a lot of other inferior midfields. 

I do agree that a lack of consistency has hurt us but our problems are bigger than just players. 

Explain?

[Bailey]

27 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Explain?

I will use Leeds as an example. A group of far inferior players on a fraction of our budget who have been coached incredibly to play the way they do. By no means perfect, but when someone is injured or suspended, the next man comes in and does what is expected of them. 

Another example in a short period with better players is Tuchel at Chelsea. The structure in their attacking play from the first game is chalk and cheese to what came before with Lampard. It helps they have a flurry of good players in every position but they weren't doing it as well under Lampard. They are now one of the best defensive teams in the league and Tuchel claims he has barely spent any time working on how they defend. 

In my opinion we either aren't doing enough work on the training ground, or we are working on the wrong things. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I will use Leeds as an example. A group of far inferior players on a fraction of our budget who have been coached incredibly to play the way they do. By no means perfect, but when someone is injured or suspended, the next man comes in and does what is expected of them. 

Another example in a short period with better players is Tuchel at Chelsea. The structure in their attacking play from the first game is chalk and cheese to what came before with Lampard. It helps they have a flurry of good players in every position but they weren't doing it as well under Lampard. They are now one of the best defensive teams in the league and Tuchel claims he has barely spent any time working on how they defend. 

In my opinion we either aren't doing enough work on the training ground, or we are working on the wrong things. 

Since joining Leeds in June 2018 Bielsa has brought in 8 signings and let 9 players go, he bought players to suit his style of playing, Ancelotti could have taken over that group of players and got the same results, the question should be could Tuchel have done any better with the team Ancelotti was given.

When Ancelotti gets 8 players in we will see a big difference, but not so sure Brands will be able to off load the players he brought in who are already or will be very soon surplus to requirements. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I will use Leeds as an example. A group of far inferior players on a fraction of our budget who have been coached incredibly to play the way they do. By no means perfect, but when someone is injured or suspended, the next man comes in and does what is expected of them. 

Another example in a short period with better players is Tuchel at Chelsea. The structure in their attacking play from the first game is chalk and cheese to what came before with Lampard. It helps they have a flurry of good players in every position but they weren't doing it as well under Lampard. They are now one of the best defensive teams in the league and Tuchel claims he has barely spent any time working on how they defend. 

In my opinion we either aren't doing enough work on the training ground, or we are working on the wrong things. 

Bielsa has been at Leeds 3 years. Like Palfy said he's bought 8 players in and shipped 9 out. 

Tuchel took over a team that had a third of a billion spent on it with quality players all over the place who lampard lost. 

Ancellotti took over a group of players who were heading for relegation barring Ferguson horse whipping them to results. 

I've said elsewhere that lesser managers than Ancellotti could probably get a tune out them more than Carlo ..... I don't give a shit that there is, we never hired Carlo to manage pedestrian, half arsed, mentally weak mercenaries.  Our project is to get the players in that fit with his identity. 

[c1982]

Our performances have frustrated the hell out of me for most of the season and Carlo has to take some of the blame but he must have praise too as we’ll end up with our best points tally since 2016/17 - not great in reality but we’re not talking about a squad full of quality here. In his 17months, 14 have been in a global pandemic and we’ve been ravaged by injuries throughout that time - generally in midfield. As a result, our team has been full of over paid statues - namely Gomes, Gylfi and Iwobi - Allan and James may not be the fastest most mobile players but each has world-class aspects to their game. A big problem is that we can’t just write off too many more expensive signings as Walcott, Bolasie and Tosun already won’t return from an £80m (ish) output. We need to claw back some of the £100m (ish) from Gomes (not his fault but the injury has had a devastating effect), Gylfi and Iwobi. Add Gbamin (once again, not his fault) and that’s £200m of player mentioned there. This squad is an unbalanced expensive mess - Carlo’s here to sort this mess. We need patience and stability and now’s the time to show this because 100% Ancelotti will know we’re nowhere near good enough currently.

 

[Gwlad]

Tbf if I were Carlo I'd be tearing my hair out and hoping that Brands is able to offload and bring in some quality.

[Bailey]

19 hours ago, Palfy said:

Since joining Leeds in June 2018 Bielsa has brought in 8 signings and let 9 players go, he bought players to suit his style of playing, Ancelotti could have taken over that group of players and got the same results, the question should be could Tuchel have done any better with the team Ancelotti was given.

When Ancelotti gets 8 players in we will see a big difference, but not so sure Brands will be able to off load the players he brought in who are already or will be very soon surplus to requirements. 

isn't it a bit of a tribute to Bielsa that he has only brought in 8 players from a team threatened by relegation to get them promoted to the Premier League (and competing in it to mid-table) with a squad largely consisting of the same players? Ancellotti has made 6 signings (Allan, Godfrey, Niels, Olsen, Doucoure, James). There is nothing that I have seen to say Ancellotti would have got Leeds to the position they are in now.

18 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Bielsa has been at Leeds 3 years. Like Palfy said he's bought 8 players in and shipped 9 out. 

Tuchel took over a team that had a third of a billion spent on it with quality players all over the place who lampard lost. 

Ancellotti took over a group of players who were heading for relegation barring Ferguson horse whipping them to results. 

I've said elsewhere that lesser managers than Ancellotti could probably get a tune out them more than Carlo ..... I don't give a shit that there is, we never hired Carlo to manage pedestrian, half arsed, mentally weak mercenaries.  Our project is to get the players in that fit with his identity. 

I have covered Bielsa above and I also talked about Tuchel, the argument for the latter taking into account the ability of the players and more being about how quickly a manager can instill his ideas into a squad.

Yes we were under performing but we were not getting relegated. Much like we weren't when Allardyce took over. Those same players were top half players the season before. I take it your argument isn't that Silva and Koeman over performed the previous season?

What I take from that last paragraph is that in order for Carlo to be successful at Everton, we have to purchase a group of elite footballers? Many of these comments would have leveled at the Chelsea squad before Lampard was sacked (I think it was  that you suggested there was no leadership).

[Sibdane]

15 minutes ago, Bailey said:

isn't it a bit of a tribute to Bielsa that he has only brought in 8 players from a team threatened by relegation to get them promoted to the Premier League (and competing in it to mid-table) with a squad largely consisting of the same players? Ancellotti has made 6 signings (Allan, Godfrey, Niels, Olsen, Doucoure, James). There is nothing that I have seen to say Ancellotti would have got Leeds to the position they are in now.

I have covered Bielsa above and I also talked about Tuchel, the argument for the latter taking into account the ability of the players and more being about how quickly a manager can instill his ideas into a squad.

Yes we were under performing but we were not getting relegated. Much like we weren't when Allardyce took over. Those same players were top half players the season before. I take it your argument isn't that Silva and Koeman over performed the previous season?

What I take from that last paragraph is that in order for Carlo to be successful at Everton, we have to purchase a group of elite footballers? Many of these comments would have leveled at the Chelsea squad before Lampard was sacked (I think it was  that you suggested there was no leadership).

I get what you're saying but I wouldn't throw those two in the pot. I imagine Niels has played more than expected (which is still very little), and Olsen was brought in as a backup to a position you never really want to rotate unless you have to. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

isn't it a bit of a tribute to Bielsa that he has only brought in 8 players from a team threatened by relegation to get them promoted to the Premier League (and competing in it to mid-table) with a squad largely consisting of the same players? Ancellotti has made 6 signings (Allan, Godfrey, Niels, Olsen, Doucoure, James). There is nothing that I have seen to say Ancellotti would have got Leeds to the position they are in now.

I have covered Bielsa above and I also talked about Tuchel, the argument for the latter taking into account the ability of the players and more being about how quickly a manager can instill his ideas into a squad.

Yes we were under performing but we were not getting relegated. Much like we weren't when Allardyce took over. Those same players were top half players the season before. I take it your argument isn't that Silva and Koeman over performed the previous season?

What I take from that last paragraph is that in order for Carlo to be successful at Everton, we have to purchase a group of elite footballers? Many of these comments would have leveled at the Chelsea squad before Lampard was sacked (I think it was  that you suggested there was no leadership).

I would say 4 Allan Doucoure Godfrey and James let him get the next 4 first team players in, and give him another 18 months then we can make a fairer comparison. 

[Sibdane]

19 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I would say 4 Allan Doucoure Godfrey and James let him get the next 4 first team players in, and give him another 18 months then we can make a fairer comparison. 

We also can't forget that we've been without Allan and Doucoure for good chunks of the season. 

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Sibdane said:

We also can't forget that we've been without Allan and Doucoure for good chunks of the season. 

Exactly and James, and when they’ve not been available he has had to revert to the old guard.