Chelsea (Home) Saturday 12 December

[markjazzbassist]

I’m not expecting a whole lot with no fullbacks.  A draw would be nice.  I missed the last match so I’m not sure who is injured and who is back and all that.  I’ll post my lineup later this week.

[Bailey]

Chelsea look like one of the most complete teams in the league at the moment. 

They still have communication issues at the back which should be targeted but they don't have many other weaknesses after that. Ziyech is likely to be out and he has started well, but Havertz isn't quite fully integrated yet but he is still solid enough. I expect them to dominate the ball and we will need to find away to counter. They shut Kane/Son in the second half so that won't be easy either. 

It is a game that we will really need to be on it. If we aren't we could get our arses handed to us.

[Romey 1878]

We need to attack. If Carlo shits the bed again then we’re fucked.
 

We have the players to hurt them, so let them and don’t hinder them. Play a system that doesn’t stifle what we have at the other end of the pitch, a system that the players are comfortable in. 

[pete0]

Ancelotti wrote the book on 442, think it's best for us to go back to what he knows best.

Pickford

Iwobi Holgate Mina Davies

James Doucoure Allan Richarlison

DCL Tosun

[Bailey]

I saw enough of how Carlo wants to play 442 last season that I really don't want to see it again. I think Chelsea would just find way too much space between the lines of our two man midfield.

From my experience of this side, they appear far more comfortable playing in a 433 formation. The issue we have is that we clearly don't have the full backs to be able to overlap the likes of James and Richarlison to make it most effective going forward. I fear Iwobi would get caught out too often defensively and Davies would get caught out on the break almost every time. I think we need good defenders who have some athleticism.

The most important thing for us in this game is that we stay compact and we press much more aggressively than we have been once the ball gets into whatever space in the pitch Carlo wants us to press from. If we went with a back four with Godfrey left and Holgate right, it would stifle us going forward but it would give us some solidity at the back. Holgate is capable enough going forward and they are both athletic and agile so that they can press aggressively and then get back in and track runs from the wide players. James and Rodriguez will have to chip in because Chilwell and James bomb forward constantly.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Missed out in the ballot and really don’t know whether I feel gutted or relieved !

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Bailey said:

James and Rodriguez will have to chip in

Have we cloned him. I know what you mean if both James and Richarlison adopt the I’m not chasing back when the attack breaks down as they did against Burnley, then we are going to get hammered. 

[Btay]

This could be a blood bath. If neils hasn’t played the last 2 I can’t see him playing here. I actually can’t pick a team and feel comfortable at all. Holgate and Mina as CB with iwobi and Godfrey I guess.

Gomes, Allan and Doucoure. James DCL and Richarlison.

Cliche but early goal is crucial here. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Btay said:

This could be a blood bath. If neils hasn’t played the last 2 I can’t see him playing here. I actually can’t pick a team and feel comfortable at all. Holgate and Mina as CB with iwobi and Godfrey I guess.

Gomes, Allan and Doucoure. James DCL and Richarlison.

Cliche but early goal is crucial here. 

Nkounkou really should have at least been on the bench for the past two games so that he could have had some experience of being around Premier League games, maybe getting on for a few minutes. Since Digne's injury there's been the very real possibility that we'd need to call on him, so I really cannot get my head around Carlo's handling of him. The same goes for Gordon. I'm not screaming for either one of them to be starting games but it's madness to not to have had them on the bench. Gordon more so when you look at the state of the bench and having options to change things in games.

You'd drop Keane? Really? He and Mina looked pretty solid when we switched to four at the back and I really don't think chopping and changing the CB's (whether it's 2 or 3) is helping things in terms of understanding. Just go with what we had and have Holgate on the bench, who looked rusty as anything when he played.

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

Nkounkou really should have at least been on the bench for the past two games so that he could have had some experience of being around Premier League games, maybe getting on for a few minutes. Since Digne's injury there's been the very real possibility that we'd need to call on him, so I really cannot get my head around Carlo's handling of him. The same goes for Gordon. I'm not screaming for either one of them to be starting games but it's madness to not to have had them on the bench. Gordon more so when you look at the state of the bench and having options to change things in games.

You'd drop Keane? Really? He and Mina looked pretty solid when we switched to four at the back and I really don't think chopping and changing the CB's (whether it's 2 or 3) is helping things in terms of understanding. Just go with what we had and have Holgate on the bench, who looked rusty as anything when he played.

Agree on the first part completely. Congestion over Christmas and perfect games to bed him in and get him some experience, especially against burnley. He’s done nothing wrong when he’s played so I can’t understand it.

I would, the chance wood got one on one was because let him dominate him and run off him. Slow to close for the goal as well. He is giving away a clear chance every game. I’ve made no secret I don’t rate him, he looked to have turned a corner at the start of the season but I think he’s been absolutely shit house since the first international break.

 

Mina not much better but I thought he was solid against Burnley. I’m pissed off at the 2 of them, we are screaming out for one of them to step up and be the man but neither seemed interested.

[barryj]

On 07/12/2020 at 00:23, pete0 said:

Ancelotti wrote the book on 442, think it's best for us to go back to what he knows best.

Pickford

Iwobi Holgate Mina Davies

James Doucoure Allan Richarlison

DCL Tosun

Iwobi RB in 442. No thanks. 

[Palfy]

Ancelotti obviously doesn’t see Niels as an option at the moment to be on the bench so chances of him starting against Chelsea are very slim, unless of course he’s got the 3 at the back formation out of his thoughts, then surely he has to bring him back as the only natural LB in the squad. Some big decisions to make in our defence for this one get them wrong and we could be on for a real big spanking, or Pickford gets man of the match again. 

[Btay]

20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Ancelotti obviously doesn’t see Niels as an option at the moment to be on the bench so chances of him starting against Chelsea are very slim, unless of course he’s got the 3 at the back formation out of his thoughts, then surely he has to bring him back as the only natural LB in the squad. Some big decisions to make in our defence for this one get them wrong and we could be on for a real big spanking, or Pickford gets man of the match again. 

If we play a flat 4 and he brings Niels in - I’ll seriously have some questions over Carlo.

From what we’ve seen he is suited to a LWB. It offers him more protection defensively and his primary job is energy up and down the line. 

I can’t believe we played Delph as a LWB before a 20 year old who’s been impressive nearly every time he’s played.

[Palfy]

58 minutes ago, Btay said:

If we play a flat 4 and he brings Niels in - I’ll seriously have some questions over Carlo.

From what we’ve seen he is suited to a LWB. It offers him more protection defensively and his primary job is energy up and down the line. 

I can’t believe we played Delph as a LWB before a 20 year old who’s been impressive nearly every time he’s played.

If we go 3 at the back again we need to change how we set up at the moment it isn’t working, we end up getting over run in the middle I would go more with 5 in the middle and 2 up top. With DCL and James the front 2 Iwobi and Richarlison the wide men and Davies Doucoure and Allan central. 

[Btay]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

If we go 3 at the back again we need to change how we set up at the moment it isn’t working, we end up getting over run in the middle I would go more with 5 in the middle and 2 up top. With DCL and James the front 2 Iwobi and Richarlison the wide men and Davies Doucoure and Allan central. 

If we play wingbacks, we need wingbacks with energy to get up and down - who are left footed on the left hand side and right footed on the right hand side so they can cross. Iwobi is wasted so much on the left as a wing back. I’d understand Kenny more then Iwobi there because he’s atleast defensively minded because once you put a right footed out their you lose any attacking threat they may offer - especially when our striker is feeding off balls in the area.

I’ve really no confidence in what ever back line we put out now to be honest. 

[RuffRob]

On 08/12/2020 at 09:14, Romey 1878 said:

Nkounkou really should have at least been on the bench for the past two games so that he could have had some experience of being around Premier League games, maybe getting on for a few minutes. Since Digne's injury there's been the very real possibility that we'd need to call on him, so I really cannot get my head around Carlo's handling of him. The same goes for Gordon. I'm not screaming for either one of them to be starting games but it's madness to not to have had them on the bench. Gordon more so when you look at the state of the bench and having options to change things in games.

You'd drop Keane? Really? He and Mina looked pretty solid when we switched to four at the back and I really don't think chopping and changing the CB's (whether it's 2 or 3) is helping things in terms of understanding. Just go with what we had and have Holgate on the bench, who looked rusty as anything when he played.

I can only think of a couple of reasons why Ancelloti isn't using Niels and Gordon at the moment is that in training he doesn't see them quite up to the task of the Premiership, or what I think is more likely is that he knows these two boys are more for the future so knows they will be staying with the club longer term (not looking to off load at all). Is he just trying to give some of the senior player a fair crack of the whip at producing performances in games, before he needs to make the decision in January or the summer that they will never cut the mustard in his team and thus need shipping out and replacing.

I have also heard him discuss on several occasions about the difficulty in keeping the squad happy with playing time. So is he giving the senior squad player the first opportunity to show what they have got, before promoting the younger players in ahead of them? If as a senior player you don't perform if you are given half a dozen games or so (one or two games is not really a fair chance) and you don't perform, you have little come back at the manager with. 

Not saying this the best way to go about giving yourself the best chance to win points on a game by game basis, but over the mid to longer term it might be the best way to develop a stronger squad to win more points on a more consistent basis in seasons to come. Should we see this season as 'building and development' season under Ancellotti, or should it be predominately be about the result in next game?

 

[markjazzbassist]

some great points in there rob, i think another is he doesn't want to send the youngsters to the wolves knowing it could kill their confidence and career.  we've seen with many of our managers over the years the players are thrown in too early, confident is shot, fans get on their backs, they are shipped out after as damaged goods.

 

he might be doing it to protect them give them time to grow and learn.

[RuffRob]

We are definitely a club in transition. I know we current seem to perpetually in transition. Unfortunately, the clock started again almost 12month ago when Ancelloti was brought in and in a way started again at the end of August when the new players joined the squad. In this 12 months there where also three or four months 'lost' to lockdown. A very strange 12 months of football management - for what I would think is maybe Ancelotti's toughest management assignment. 

This next run of games is going to be very interesting. We are now going to be playing the top clubs in the Premiership with games twice weekly. It might be uncomfortable watching for the next months, but I think this intense period of football against quality opposition is what this squad now need to build player understanding, particularly defensively.  I am optimistic we will see improved 'team' performances in the new year. 

Chelsea is going to be a tough game, they are in good form so will be tough to get any sort of result this weekend. Although, 12months ago we saw big Dunc hugging the ball boy!!, so you never know. 

Will take a 0-0 now !!!!  

[markjazzbassist]

yeah Carlo needs way more time and way more reinforcements.  we need a starter at RB and potentially another midfielder to replace Gomes/Gylfi in the 433 if that is what we stay with.  that's 2 starters.  i haven't even gotten to the bench yet.  we need depth almost everywhere with the 3 forward spots needing quality like for like replacements.

 

we still have a lot of dead wood.  Bernard, Mina, Gomes, Gylfi, Kenny, Tosun, Delph, all could leave and we wouldn't miss them.  

 

still a lot to do.

[Palfy]

I thought Gomes showed a bit more quality and desire when he came on last week, it was like the realisation of sitting on the bench the last few weeks is dawning on him that he isn’t an automatic choice and if he wants to play he has to fight for his place. 
Also Mina didn’t do much wrong there wasn’t the usual couple of fuck me moments of what the fuck are you doing that I can remember anyway. 
But the game against Chelsea will be a completely different prospect, belief in our ability to score goals will be our best form of defence, I’d hate to see us trying to defend and not make the most of our ability to score goals and hurt them for me going down fighting is preferable to going down hiding.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I thought Gomes showed a bit more quality and desire when he came on last week, it was like the realisation of sitting on the bench the last few weeks is dawning on him that he isn’t an automatic choice and if he wants to play he has to fight for his place. 
Also Mina didn’t do much wrong there wasn’t the usual couple of fuck me moments of what the fuck are you doing that I can remember anyway. 
But the game against Chelsea will be a completely different prospect, belief in our ability to score goals will be our best form of defence, I’d hate to see us trying to defend and not make the most of our ability to score goals and hurt them for me going down fighting is preferable to going down hiding.

Love this so much!! For goodness sake play a back 4 and let's have a go at them. First game with fans back, I trust 2k Evertonians to create an atmosphere worthy of a positive performance. 

[Romey 1878]

7 hours ago, RuffRob said:

I can only think of a couple of reasons why Ancelloti isn't using Niels and Gordon at the moment is that in training he doesn't see them quite up to the task of the Premiership, or what I think is more likely is that he knows these two boys are more for the future so knows they will be staying with the club longer term (not looking to off load at all). Is he just trying to give some of the senior player a fair crack of the whip at producing performances in games, before he needs to make the decision in January or the summer that they will never cut the mustard in his team and thus need shipping out and replacing.

I have also heard him discuss on several occasions about the difficulty in keeping the squad happy with playing time. So is he giving the senior squad player the first opportunity to show what they have got, before promoting the younger players in ahead of them? If as a senior player you don't perform if you are given half a dozen games or so (one or two games is not really a fair chance) and you don't perform, you have little come back at the manager with. 

Not saying this the best way to go about giving yourself the best chance to win points on a game by game basis, but over the mid to longer term it might be the best way to develop a stronger squad to win more points on a more consistent basis in seasons to come. Should we see this season as 'building and development' season under Ancellotti, or should it be predominately be about the result in next game?

 

I understand what you're saying but he had 6 months of last season to let the senior players like Sigurdsson show that they're not good enough. They added absolutely nothing. And Gordon was trusted hugely in that period and I don't think he did anything wrong in that time either. Certainly not enough to have him banished now.

Again, I'm not one that's screaming for either one of them to be starting all the games but I think it's bizarre that they can't even get near the bench. Also again, this applies especially to Gordon because our bench in terms of changing things or adding something going forward if we're chasing a game is atrocious and he could, at least in my eyes, provide a bit of spark and a willingness to create something.

I just think it's strange.

[Btay]

13 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I understand what you're saying but he had 6 months of last season to let the senior players like Sigurdsson show that they're not good enough. They added absolutely nothing. And Gordon was trusted hugely in that period and I don't think he did anything wrong in that time either. Certainly not enough to have him banished now.

Again, I'm not one that's screaming for either one of them to be starting all the games but I think it's bizarre that they can't even get near the bench. Also again, this applies especially to Gordon because our bench in terms of changing things or adding something going forward if we're chasing a game is atrocious and he could, at least in my eyes, provide a bit of spark and a willingness to create something.

I just think it's strange.

Bang on. Something has to be going on. Also - Gordon is out and out the closest we have to Richarlison in terms of direct dribbling and eye for goal. Really wish we gave him a run when he had the 3 game suspension.

[Bailey]

James ruled out. 

[Bailey]

Coleman also still out but might be back for Leicester. 

[markjazzbassist]

updated lineup then.

 

 

                            Olsen

       Godfrey Keane Holgate Niels

                           Allan

               Doucoure Gomes

      Iwobi           DCL     Richarlison

[dunlopp9987]

how I'll be watching the majority of this one. Don't have a good feeling about it, considering form and injuries. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

James ruled out. 

 

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

Coleman also still out but might be back for Leicester. 

I’m going to make sure I’m drunk for this one. 

[Palfy]

A battling draw is on the cards. 

[barryj]

3 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

I’m going to make sure I’m drunk for this one. 

You won’t be alone there Romey!