Hull City (A) FA Cup 3rd round Sat 8th Jan 17:30

[Cornish Steve]

5 minutes ago, Btay said:

1 from 1 to be fair 

0 from 15 against clubs not beginning with A or H.

[Cornish Steve]

Everyone is pleased that we won, albeit scraped through, but there are reasons to be concerned:

1) Why are we shifting to 5 at the back when it's clear it's not working and arguably we don't have the players for it? Are we recruiting with a back 5 in mind?

2) Why do we insist on playing Rondon when we have talented and eager youngsters waiting for the chance to shine?

3) Why did we bring on Gbamin with two minutes left to play when only this week the manager told him he can leave? One benefit of cup games against lower opposition is it gives us a chance to view players making up our future. We missed that opportunity.

4) For sure, the referee made some questionable decisions, but we were rather lucky in other ways. Begovic made two quality saves, and so did the woodwork.

I don't agree that our players are a waste of space. Allan is a consistent leader; Gray is a quality and creative player; we have two solid keepers; Doucoure has bags of quality; Gordon is one of the brightest young players in the league; Godfrey has bags of potential; etc. - but we're not seeing the best of them right now. We may differ on the reasons for that, but that has to change.

[nyblue23]

7 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Everyone is pleased that we won, albeit scraped through, but there are reasons to be concerned:

1) Why are we shifting to 5 at the back when it's clear it's not working and arguably we don't have the players for it? Are we recruiting with a back 5 in mind?

2) Why do we insist on playing Rondon when we have talented and eager youngsters waiting for the chance to shine?

3) Why did we bring on Gbamin with two minutes left to play when only this week the manager told him he can leave? One benefit of cup games against lower opposition is it gives us a chance to view players making up our future. We missed that opportunity.

4) For sure, the referee made some questionable decisions, but we were rather lucky in other ways. Begovic made two quality saves, and so did the woodwork.

I don't agree that our players are a waste of space. Allan is a consistent leader; Gray is a quality and creative player; we have two solid keepers; Doucoure has bags of quality; Gordon is one of the brightest young players in the league; Godfrey has bags of potential; etc. - but we're not seeing the best of them right now. We may differ on the reasons for that, but that has to change.

All of this except I believe Rondon is definitely a waste of space at this point in his career. Strong player at one time, but he's past it now. Never had pace to begin with and now he's lost a step on top of it. I don't think anyone else on our roster is a waste of space—they're just being utilized woefully ineffectively by a manager with zero clue. Even Keane and Holgate are massively talented and Keane was arguably our best defender just last year. They just now play like shit every single week for us and we all should really be asking why that is.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, nyblue23 said:

That's the relief part. The dismay is that it was even close. Part of that is down to Friend. But as much as I am not surprised by our performance, @Cornish Steve is right that it never should have been close enough to have the refereeing matter.

I disagree the FA cup has a history of throwing up difficult games for the PL team’s, there on a hiding to nothing expected to win and dammed if they don’t, there has and always will be bigger teams than us who lose to smaller clubs than we beat today. We have won and progress to the next round which is what I thought we all wanted.  

[RuffRob]

A win is a win and at times there was some nice bits of player. However, it is obviouse the the team is low on confidence.

As frustrating as it is losing early goals, one thing that cannot be argued is that this team do actually actually fight back. 

some credit to Hull also today, those players made the most of this game with a Premiership side televised on the BBC, would have been a big day for them today they definately gave it there all. 

 

[Palfy]

17 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Why did we bring on Gbamin with two minutes left to play when only this week the manager told him he can leave?

The manager denied that he told Gbamin that he could leave in a filmed interview, show me your evidence that he said it, I’ve heard anti vaxxers struggle to make up more bullshit than Benitez’s hater’s. 

[Gwlad]

Gbamin didn't look like a player who didn't want to play for the club and had been told he could leave.

[MikeO]

12 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

Gbamin didn't look like a player who didn't want to play for the club and had been told he could leave.

Thought the same, was very happy celebrating the winner.

[London Blue]

I thought Gambin played very well. Much better than I thought he could. Maybe I was wrong and his previous performances were down to rustiness and getting over his injuries. Lets hope so.

[nyblue23]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

The manager denied that he told Gbamin that he could leave in a filmed interview, show me your evidence that he said it, I’ve heard anti vaxxers struggle to make up more bullshit than Benitez’s hater’s. 

Not sure how you made it appear that I said that, but that was not my quotation.

[nyblue23]

2 hours ago, Palfy said:

I disagree the FA cup has a history of throwing up difficult games for the PL team’s, there on a hiding to nothing expected to win and dammed if they don’t, there has and always will be bigger teams than us who lose to smaller clubs than we beat today. We have won and progress to the next round which is what I thought we all wanted.  

Of course we’re happy to win. But we should be winning handily like the Chelseas and Citys of the world who won their matchups by a combined score of 9-2… not scraping it out in extra time like Brighton or Southampton. NSNO or no?

Edit: I’m aware City’s and Chelsea’s matchups were against lower-tier sides, but Hull is almost definitely going down. They’re basically a League One side.

[Cornish Steve]

52 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

Not sure how you made it appear that I said that, but that was not my quotation.

No, it was me, recalling an article I read this week online - I thought from the BBC website, although I could be wrong.

[dunlopp9987]

2 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

Of course we’re happy to win. But we should be winning handily like the Chelseas and Citys of the world who won their matchups by a combined score of 9-2… not scraping it out in extra time like Brighton or Southampton. NSNO or no?

Edit: I’m aware City’s and Chelsea’s matchups were against lower-tier sides, but Hull is almost definitely going down. They’re basically a League One side.

In what universe are you trying to compare us with City and Chelsea? Your edit isn't even the point I'm most baffled about. I'm most baffled that you even uttered the phrase "we should be winning handily like the Chelseas and Citys of the world." 

Have ya....have ya seen their squads compared to ours??

[nyblue23]

5 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

In what universe are you trying to compare us with City and Chelsea? Your edit isn't even the point I'm most baffled about. I'm most baffled that you even uttered the phrase "we should be winning handily like the Chelseas and Citys of the world." 

Have ya....have ya seen their squads compared to ours??

The point is that we should be striving for the best. Not mediocrity. It’s our club’s motto for fuck’s sake. Yes, I’ve seen our squad. It’s not great. But we shouldn’t be satisfied until we’re in a similar position to those clubs. I know we’re hampered by relatively late investment, but I mean ffs, Moyes might take West Ham to a top 6 finish two years in a row with a squad barely more impressive than ours. I’m not saying we should all be throwing realism out the window, but we need to be constantly demanding more, never accepting the danger of turning into a perpetually-mediocre has-been club.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Can’t believe people are moaning about a win. It was very much an under strength side ( No Pickford,, Mina, Doucoure,Richarlison or DCL ) in a tricky away tie ( why do you think the cameras were there?)

Fair enough I didn’t agree with the team selection and we were all over the place in the first 15 minutes, their 1st goal also exposed our shambolic defending from set pieces. However after Gray , who was superb throughout , equalised we were in total control of the tie. If we had an even semi competent Referee either of those 2 penalties for handball( also think there could have been one for foul on Gordon ) would have been given and it would have put the tie beyond Hull for a very routine victory

Their equaliser was a peach and totally out of the blue and understandably gave them a lift, I’ve seen many Everton sides whos heads would have dropped and gone it after that, but even then poor Refereeing denied us a chance to win it in the last minute. 
 

At the end of the day we are in the hat for the next round and that was not even anywhere near the top 100 worse cup performances Ive seen from Everton

[Shukes]

Take a look at the fans standing around the flag for getting Rafa out…. It says all you need to know. Disappointment etched on their faces. They really were expecting us to lose and that flag to mean a whole lot more.

Look at the end of the day we’re infamous for being the most depressing fans in the premier league. We will never be happy until we win the premier league by ten clear points… and that would still depend on strong cup runs.

[Wiggytop]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

At the end of the day we are in the hat for the next round and that was not even anywhere near the top 100 worse cup performances Ive seen from Everton

Well said! 
A terrible start from us, Hull targeted our new, never played in England before full back who made a rash challenge, gave away a free kick, and Rondon then decided to play statues, 40 seconds in and we’re 1 down. Any team who has been on a run like we are would be nervy after that, Gray and Gordon pulled us back and from the equaliser on we were in control. We upset the BBC who were desperate for Hull to win, Once they had equalised each time they went forward in our half the commentator said and is this where whole go on to win the game, it was quite embarrassing in their level of biased commentary.

once they had equalised each time they went forward in our half the commentator said and is this where Hull go on to win the game, it was quite embarrassing in their level of biased commentary.

In the post match summary Jenus did a bit of analysis on Gray saying he was very good, but he keeps shooting too early,  or too late,  or not making the right decisions, has anybody watched Salah play, he shoots and misses more often than he scores, as do most players, once again really biased analysis.

Rafas team selection and formation continues to baffle me, as does his choice of substitutions, Rondon should’ve left the field early 2nd half with Dobbin coming on to run at the tiring Hull defence, it was quite embarrassing watching Rondon trying to chase the ball down he really needs to get rid of the Zimmer frame it might run quicker!

Anyhow we’re in the draw for the next round, let’s see if there are any more upsets today, does anyone still want Eddie Howe or Sean Docherty here ?

[Palfy]

2 hours ago, Shukes said:

Take a look at the fans standing around the flag for getting Rafa out…. It says all you need to know. Disappointment etched on their faces. They really were expecting us to lose and that flag to mean a whole lot more.

Look at the end of the day we’re infamous for being the most depressing fans in the premier league. We will never be happy until we win the premier league by ten clear points… and that would still depend on strong cup runs.

To be honest people who take banners like that to football matches imo shouldn’t be addressed as fans, all they are achieving is deflating their own team and spurring on the opposition, if you want to make a stand or protest against the manager then boycott the games, the owners and board will soon get the message when the stadium his 60-70% empty.  

[Zoo 2.0]

26 minutes ago, Palfy said:

To be honest people who take banners like that to football matches imo shouldn’t be addressed as fans, all they are achieving is deflating their own team and spurring on the opposition, if you want to make a stand or protest against the manager then boycott the games, the owners and board will soon get the message when the stadium his 60-70% empty.  

So making the long trip to Hull on a freezing evening doesn't make you an Everton fan? Riiiiiight...

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Zoo 2.0 said:

So making the long trip to Hull on a freezing evening doesn't make you an Everton fan? Riiiiiight...

Let me get the violin out for you, whether it’s winter or summer going home or away holding banners up like that spurs the opposition on and can effect the performance of your own team, going away to Hull with the purpose of protesting with your banners doesn’t make you fan if it can be detrimental to your own team, just makes you a bitter twat imo. Apologies if it was you behind the banner but that’s my feelings on that sort of shit. 

[dunlopp9987]

6 hours ago, nyblue23 said:

The point is that we should be striving for the best. Not mediocrity. It’s our club’s motto for fuck’s sake. Yes, I’ve seen our squad. It’s not great. But we shouldn’t be satisfied until we’re in a similar position to those clubs. I know we’re hampered by relatively late investment, but I mean ffs, Moyes might take West Ham to a top 6 finish two years in a row with a squad barely more impressive than ours. I’m not saying we should all be throwing realism out the window, but we need to be constantly demanding more, never accepting the danger of turning into a perpetually-mediocre has-been club.

AND IF WE KEEP HIRING AND FIRING MANAGERS, WE WILL CONTINUE BEING A PERPETUALLY-MEDIOCRE-HAS-BEEN-CLUB.

Sorry for the all caps but it truly feels like I'm banging my head against a wall on this one. Let Rafa bring some stability to the club for 18-24 months and then by all means go out and find the manager to take us to the next level, because I don't think Rafa is that manager. 

[Wiggytop]

3 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

AND IF WE KEEP HIRING AND FIRING MANAGERS, WE WILL CONTINUE BEING A PERPETUALLY-MEDIOCRE-HAS-BEEN-CLUB.

Sorry for the all caps but it truly feels like I'm banging my head against a wall on this one. Let Rafa bring some stability to the club for 18-24 months and then by all means go out and find the manager to take us to the next level, because I don't think Rafa is that manager. 

I’m behind this, but he needs to have a good window couple more and and some deadwood out, plus points on the board by the end of the month.

[Bailey]

I have just got around to watching the first half of the game. There were a number of things that stood out to me:

1. Yet another set piece goal. Mykolenko is given a little nudge to get him out of his channel and under the ball and Rondon is fast asleep and behind the rest of the defensive line. 

2. I question what we work on in the training ground. Our defensive press is awful. You have Rondon start, the wingers slowly join in, the Allan and maybe Gomes stroll forward. All Hull had to do in those first 20 minutes was wait for us to edge forward and they had all the passing lanes they wanted. On the rare occasion we did manage to cut off the easy passes they knocked it long down the channels and made, Keane and Godfrey in particular turn back to goal and generally mess up the clearance. They were both a shambles on some really simple clearances. It was clear to me they weren't comfortable with their positioning, probably due to the 5 at the back. It was a bit like they were "after you, no after you". Most of that first 20 minutes Hull either won the second ball or won a thrown in deep in our half.

3. Gray is almost entirely the catalyst for us doing anything. Hull were scared of him. He was kept very wide early on and wasn't really in the game but it looked like Benitez changed his positioning and he started playing further up the pitch and more centrally. When it was just Rondon in the middle, they could afford to get tight knowing he couldn't get in behind but when Gray joined him and got closer to him, the space opened up because they had to start dropping deeper, leaving room for the three attacking players. I think the turnaround in that half was due to getting Gray on the ball more and Hull starting to doubt their ability in playing out and defending high. 

4. The positioning of the full backs is very defensive. Yes they have got forward but it is very rare. Usually with a 5 at the back in a game you expect to win, you would see the full backs take high, wide positions and to get forward whenever we have good possession of the ball. Our full backs look very confused about whether to attack or to sit. That has been the same regardless of who has played there and in similar situations with 4 at the back.

5. Gomes is such a Jekyll and Hyde footballer. He will take a nice touch and then pass the ball out of play. He will win the ball back with a good challenge, then dwell on it and give it away. Allan wasn't that much better himself but the percentages with him are like 80% good and 20% bad not the 50/50 you get with Gomes.

6. Rondon is just a waste of time isn't he? His hold up play is a real mixed back, his finishing his weak. He must be up to pace by now and he can barely get a kick against what looks like a young and poor Hull back line. What is the point of persisting with him?

7. As for my first impression of the new lad, he looks a little naive and off the pace, which is to be expected. 

I won't get too excited for the second half!

[Bailey]

16 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

AND IF WE KEEP HIRING AND FIRING MANAGERS, WE WILL CONTINUE BEING A PERPETUALLY-MEDIOCRE-HAS-BEEN-CLUB.

Sorry for the all caps but it truly feels like I'm banging my head against a wall on this one. Let Rafa bring some stability to the club for 18-24 months and then by all means go out and find the manager to take us to the next level, because I don't think Rafa is that manager. 

I get the point but you say this like it is fact when it isn't. 

If we hire the right manager, we might end up doing quite well. If we hire a bad manager, we may do worse. I am in the camp that you should judge each manager upon their performance not on what has come before them. 

Rafa has so far brought anything but stability to Everton Football Club. He might do it, he might not. I haven't brought my crystal ball with me, but I haven't seen anything to say that stability is around the corner with him in charge. 

FWIW I am not necessarily in the Rafa out club, but I struggle to see what he is bringing to this club.

[Ghoat]

19 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

Not on NBC or Peacock, so haven't been able to watch. What is the configuration in the end? 4 or 5 at the back? Where are Kenny and Coleman playing?

You know you can get every match of the FA on ESPN+ right? I think it's $5.99 or $6.99. To me it's worth it for the FA Cup, and you can cancel it either after we are out, or after it's all over. I used to get it right before we started in the Carabao Cup, and then cancel it, usually in January when we were out of both. I just keep it now. Good for times like yesterday when I wake up at 530am for no good reason on a Saturday. Games started at 630, so I flipped around between Barnsley-Barrow, Kidminster-Reading, Brentford-Port Vale, Boreham Wood-Wimbledon etc...until our match. 

[dunlopp9987]

If anyone needs proof that the FA Cup, especially against lower league sides, is hard, look no further than Spurs currently down at home against a team in League One's relegation zone. 

@nyblue23lookin at you

[Shukes]

Was thinking the same. Spurs managed to get through after losing until the 74th minute.

Liverpool went behind to Shrewsbury and a couple of late goals put gloss on it. 
And neither of these teams are even in the championship.

[nyblue23]

3 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

If anyone needs proof that the FA Cup, especially against lower league sides, is hard, look no further than Spurs currently down at home against a team in League One's relegation zone. 

@nyblue23lookin at you

And they won 3-1 with the headline “Subs rescue Spurs from FA Cup humiliation.”

Also, possession was 79%-21%. Tottenham dominated - just couldn’t score. We were out-possessed by a League One-caliber side.

[dunlopp9987]

21 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

And they won 3-1 with the headline “Subs rescue Spurs from FA Cup humiliation.”

Also, possession was 79%-21%. Tottenham dominated - just couldn’t score. We were out-possessed by a League One-caliber side.

Fair. Was merely pointing out that the FA Cup, no matter who the lower-league opposition is, will always a crap shoot. Spurs had a relatively strong starting XI and were losing until the 70th minute.

And Arsenal also lose to a championship side.

[MikeO]

45 minutes ago, nyblue23 said:

We were out-possessed by a League One-caliber side.

How is a club who won League One last season to become a Championship side "League one calibre" half way through a season?

Disrespectful to them for me.