Centre Backs

[c1982]

We need to survive this season and sort this out in the summer as number 1 priority.

If everyone was fit I’d personally go with Mina and Godfrey as a pair and think most would too. Shockingly, they’ve only actually played as a 2 in the league once (Leeds away last season I think), which I find ridiculous!

I think Mina is our strongest CB by a mile but we can’t rely on him due to his fitness. For this reason, I think we need to move him on in the summer. Worryingly though, I’d say we need to move Keane and Holgate on too so that leaves us with Godfrey and Branthwaite - we need at least 2 new centre backs. I really am worried with Keane, Holgate and Branthwaite as our options for the next few games - each one needs Mina. Personally, I’d go with a 3 man midfield in front of a back 4 and hope we can protect them as much as possible. Add the fact that Mykolenko could be out vs Leeds too… someone needs to step up!!!

[Bailey]

Mina's fitness is a massive issue. He just misses too many games and given the money he will be on and the money we could still get for him, I now think he does have to be moved on. 

Keane has done well in the last couple of games as the central CB but I hope we move back to a 4 at the back. Whoever we partner him with isnt ideal. Holgate is Holgate and Godfrey can be similarly negative/hesitant as Keane. 

Branthwaite is still very raw for me. If we get to safety I wouldnt mind playing him a little more but I think he is down the pecking order for a reason. 

[Btay]

Not surprised that Mina goes off and we concede 3 to be honest with the state of our defence. 

If we are relying on Keane & Holgate for the rest of the season we will be very lucky to stay up.

[MC11]

Mina has to be sold, a long with Keane. Holgate I’ve been impressed with the last couple of games. But I don’t see a Holgate/Godfrey partnership as strong enough. Braithwaite could likely step up based on what I’ve seen. 

Mina is out of contract next summer anyway. Definitely an area which needs recruitment. 

[Shukes]

We need to replace all our centre backs. Even Mina if he was 100% fit. 
Branthwaite is the only one I would keep.

He came on and challenge he’s for every header. Looked calm on the ball, but made a couple of mistakes. But he will get better and better. 
Most of us have been saying it for around three years now….. we need a leader at the back. Someone who will lead by example.

At the moment, teams know they can press us and we will collapse. 

[Goodison Glory]

Would you not keep Godfrey?

[Palfy]

Branthwaite showed he’s no where near ready for the first team yet especially a team under pressure, he gave the ball away trying to play out from the back a couple of times in quick succession trying to make 15-20 yard passes, which really effected his confidence, he’s too young and to inexperienced to be dealing with intensity of being in this Everton defence. 

[badaids]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Branthwaite showed he’s no where near ready for the first team yet especially a team under pressure, he gave the ball away trying to play out from the back a couple of times in quick succession trying to make 15-20 yard passes, which really effected his confidence, he’s too young and to inexperienced to be dealing with intensity of being in this Everton defence. 

I do agree it wasn’t the best performance but I’m Not sure that’s so fair.

He came on to cover the injured Mina and a side that were set up wrong and playing shite anyway. Then he got battered in the face by Pickford and was lucky to stay on after that because of the head injury rules - he looked groggy as fuck.

And he wasn’t any worse than Keane - who one hoped might have stepped up as the senior centre back.

You also discount the other matches where Branthwaite has played and looked composed and steady. 

I’d be happy to see him start a run of games now to be honest, I bet he’d pull more Chelsea level of performances rather than Newcastle ones.

 

[Shukes]

Didn’t Mina do the same thing after only two minutes? 
Branthwaite did no worse than any of our defenders…. And he is a kid.

late in the game he received the ball under pressure abs calmly held on to it under two attempted tackles and held his nerve to play a simple ball. Didn’t seem he lacked confidence.

Yes he made mistakes, no more than any others. I imagine we’re going to see more of  him in the coming weeks.

[Bailey]

I thought Keane was head and shoulders above the other defenders against Newcastle. 

Branthwaite was raw. I think he did OK in the circumstances but there were times when he looked lost and I don't think you want to rely on him. He needs time to develop and not be thrown in at the deep end in the heat of a relegation battle.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Shukes said:

late in the game he received the ball under pressure abs calmly held on to it under two attempted tackles and held his nerve to play a simple ball. Didn’t seem he lacked confidence.

That happened 2 or 3 times were he received the ball and just froze not sure what to do, if you watch players had to go to him to get it, on one occasion I think something was said to him and he stood there shrugging his shoulders, definitely not up to speed and not the only defender who can’t play out from the back. I will agree with you he was no worse than the other 2 CBs but that doesn’t make him ready because he wasn’t any worse than them we know they are poor. Personally our defence are what will cost us our PL place, and Lampard's style of playing out from the back is fair enough that’s his belief in how a team should play, but what concerns me is we haven’t got CBs blessed with the ability to carry that out and Branthwaite on Tuesday showed he doesn’t yet have that in his locker. We may have little choice but to play him due to injuries so I hope he has a blinder every game, but our defence really concerns me and playing out from the back with players who aren’t good on the ball heightens my concerns. 

[Btay]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

I thought Keane was head and shoulders above the other defenders against Newcastle. 

Branthwaite was raw. I think he did OK in the circumstances but there were times when he looked lost and I don't think you want to rely on him. He needs time to develop and not be thrown in at the deep end in the heat of a relegation battle.

He is a tall lad but that didn’t stop him getting caught under the ball for their first goal!

[Hafnia]

5 hours ago, Btay said:

He is a tall lad but that didn’t stop him getting caught under the ball for their first goal!

He can’t jump unless it’s a metre in front of him.  Yes standing Jumps and backward jumps are harder but he always puts himself in the situation where he needs to. 

[Shukes]

To be fair Palf, I think he is the only player that looked capable of playing out from the back. Because he was confident in doing this… he gave the ball away a few times. This is down to age and experience. 
 

But I didn't see him play an easy ball out as last man straight to the opposition and create a chance on goal…. Like our Taisman defender did.

It was also evident that he challenged for every header that came his way. Again none of this dummying and hoping it goes through to the keeper… no, just good old fashioned deal with the ball first. 
 

My issues with players like Mina and Keane is responsibility. None of them take control and deal with the ball. Mina is 6.4” and 6.5” when he jumps. He shouldn’t lose as many headers as he does.  Keane is a solid build and actually looks an athletic specimen…. But gets brushed off the ball like a feather and turns like a double decker.

For all his inexperience, Branthwaite challenges, fights, and is calm on the ball already. 
 

Not going to argue about it, as it’s all down to how we both look at football differently….. all I would say is Bailey is pretty much saying the same as you

[Palfy]

31 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Not going to argue about it, as it’s all down to how we both look at football differently….. all I would say is Bailey is pretty much saying the same as you

Okay didn’t realise that you win mate. No hard feelings Bailey but I can’t really argue with that

[Bailey]

14 hours ago, Btay said:

He is a tall lad but that didn’t stop him getting caught under the ball for their first goal!

I don't agree. You trying back peddling and jumping and see how high you get. He doesnt have a go-go-gadget neck. Your criticism should be aimed at Gomes who was in a different post code to the bloke he should have been marking.

9 hours ago, Hafnia said:

He can’t jump unless it’s a metre in front of him.  Yes standing Jumps and backward jumps are harder but he always puts himself in the situation where he needs to. 

The situation being his position set by the manager for him to be marking. 

I know Keane is a bit of a boo boy but come on.

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Okay didn’t realise that you win mate. No hard feelings Bailey but I can’t really argue with that

Bastards!

[Cornish Steve]

Not centre backs but defensive line nonetheless: Can we not recall Nkounkou as a backup to Mykolenko at left back? We're very vulnerable across the line, so the more options the better right now.

[Btay]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

I don't agree. You trying back peddling and jumping and see how high you get. He doesnt have a go-go-gadget neck. Your criticism should be aimed at Gomes who was in a different post code to the bloke he should have been marking.

The situation being his position set by the manager for him to be marking. 

I know Keane is a bit of a boo boy but come on.

Bastards!

Unfortunately I don’t think you will see how average he is until he is moved on mate. I just hope he plays at his very, very best for the rest of the season otherwise we will definitely be relegated.

[Bailey]

25 minutes ago, Btay said:

Unfortunately I don’t think you will see how average he is until he is moved on mate. I just hope he plays at his very, very best for the rest of the season otherwise we will definitely be relegated.

I am not and have never been a maasive Keane fan but my issue is that the rest are worse (Mina aside but he is never fit).

I do think he gets a lot of stick that other players dont get when a lot of it isn't his fault, this being one example. Lots of comments about Keane not being able to jump but very little amount Gomes not tracking his man. 

[StevO]

27 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I am not and have never been a maasive Keane fan but my issue is that the rest are worse (Mina aside but he is never fit).

I do think he gets a lot of stick that other players dont get when a lot of it isn't his fault, this being one example. Lots of comments about Keane not being able to jump but very little amount Gomes not tracking his man. 

Since we lost the likes of Lescott and Jagielka, and one decent season from Distin, Keane has been our best defender by far. Lots of others have come in and out, but week after week he turns up. He’s not the greatest defender out there, but Mina can’t stay fit, Godfrey is erratic, Holgate is a liability. Even the players before him, Williams, Alcaraz, and god knows how many more, luckily they have dropped out of the memory bank, all not been as good as him. 
 

He takes so much stick, but his three mates haven’t done a thing to suggest they are any better than him. Every manager we’ve had has looked for a partner for him, not a replacement. But maybe they were all wrong. 

[StevO]

59 minutes ago, Btay said:

Unfortunately I don’t think you will see how average he is until he is moved on mate. I just hope he plays at his very, very best for the rest of the season otherwise we will definitely be relegated.

From the players we have who would you pick? I know you hate Keane like you found him banging your missus and your sister on the same day, but I think you need to take a look at our options at the same time mate. 

[Btay]

8 minutes ago, StevO said:

From the players we have who would you pick? I know you hate Keane like you found him banging your missus and your sister on the same day, but I think you need to take a look at our options at the same time mate. 

That’s why I said he needs to play at his best for us to stay up because I’m aware we have no options. 

I’ve been saying to replace Mina because he is injury prone. 

I just wish we moved Keane on earlier instead of holding onto this false hope he’s going to improve like he’s 24 years old. He’s into his 5th season now and he we have never had a real consistent patch of form from him longer than 8/10 games. 

I pick on him but it’s because I see a truly average footballer. We are in the position we are in because we have kept mediocre players like him and we keep playing them expecting them to become top 6 players.

[Btay]

14 minutes ago, StevO said:

Since we lost the likes of Lescott and Jagielka, and one decent season from Distin, Keane has been our best defender by far. Lots of others have come in and out, but week after week he turns up. He’s not the greatest defender out there, but Mina can’t stay fit, Godfrey is erratic, Holgate is a liability. Even the players before him, Williams, Alcaraz, and god knows how many more, luckily they have dropped out of the memory bank, all not been as good as him. 
 

He takes so much stick, but his three mates haven’t done a thing to suggest they are any better than him. Every manager we’ve had has looked for a partner for him, not a replacement. But maybe they were all wrong. 

I probably have him in the same bracket as Alcaraz - back up CB for a mid table team

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I am not and have never been a maasive Keane fan but my issue is that the rest are worse (Mina aside but he is never fit).

I do think he gets a lot of stick that other players dont get when a lot of it isn't his fault, this being one example. Lots of comments about Keane not being able to jump but very little amount Gomes not tracking his man. 

I agree with you 100% for the first paragraph mate. Keane will play because it’s needs must but if we are not replacing him for next season, along with Mina we are in serious, serious trouble.

[StevO]

35 minutes ago, Btay said:

That’s why I said he needs to play at his best for us to stay up because I’m aware we have no options. 

I’ve been saying to replace Mina because he is injury prone. 

I just wish we moved Keane on earlier instead of holding onto this false hope he’s going to improve like he’s 24 years old. He’s into his 5th season now and he we have never had a real consistent patch of form from him longer than 8/10 games. 

I pick on him but it’s because I see a truly average footballer. We are in the position we are in because we have kept mediocre players like him and we keep playing them expecting them to become top 6 players.

The problem with moving him on is replacing him, replacing any of them. I’ve said this before but there aren’t that many great centre halves in the league. I don’t think anyone is hoping he’s going to improve, but he’s a good level premier league defender. If you look around a lot of the other teams in the league, probably take City, Liverpool and Chelsea out of it, who has that many good centre halves?

Arsenal spent a fortune on White and Gabriel, nothing but average at the moment. They are young and new to the league, so they might improve but it’s the best part of £100m I think they cost. Would they really be any better? 
 

The five years Keane has been at the club we have had a player who has been consistently fit, and that is a major bonus. The lads who have played alongside him have all played shite and been injured and missed loads of games, every one of them. But Keane has played every week, so he’s got a much bigger sample size.
Play Holgate every week for five years and you’ll soon have no issue with Keane. 
If Mina could stay fit he probably wouldn’t be an Everton player in the first place. 
Godfrey has shown flashes of brilliance and flashes of garbage, hopefully he can come good and be the long term solution. 
 

Keane isn’t perfect, but he’s doing something right for the likes of Koeman, Silva, Allardyce, Ferguson, Ancelotti and Benitez all to keep picking him. Managers trust him, they all have. The club spent £500m on players, but they never went out and replaced him. They kept bringing in people to play with him. Why would they do that if he’s so poor? All the managers, the two directors of football, they rate him enough. They all wrong? It’s got to be worth thinking about mate. Surely?

[StevO]

19 minutes ago, Btay said:

I probably have him in the same bracket as Alcaraz - back up CB for a mid table team

If that’s the case then we better hope Frank goes and buys four new ones and finds buyers for Keane, Mina, Godfrey and Holgate. They must all not be good enough. 

[Btay]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

The problem with moving him on is replacing him, replacing any of them. I’ve said this before but there aren’t that many great centre halves in the league. I don’t think anyone is hoping he’s going to improve, but he’s a good level premier league defender. If you look around a lot of the other teams in the league, probably take City, Liverpool and Chelsea out of it, who has that many good centre halves?

Arsenal spent a fortune on White and Gabriel, nothing but average at the moment. They are young and new to the league, so they might improve but it’s the best part of £100m I think they cost. Would they really be any better? 
 

The five years Keane has been at the club we have had a player who has been consistently fit, and that is a major bonus. The lads who have played alongside him have all played shite and been injured and missed loads of games, every one of them. But Keane has played every week, so he’s got a much bigger sample size.
Play Holgate every week for five years and you’ll soon have no issue with Keane. 
If Mina could stay fit he probably wouldn’t be an Everton player in the first place. 
Godfrey has shown flashes of brilliance and flashes of garbage, hopefully he can come good and be the long term solution. 
 

Keane isn’t perfect, but he’s doing something right for the likes of Koeman, Silva, Allardyce, Ferguson, Ancelotti and Benitez all to keep picking him. Managers trust him, they all have. The club spent £500m on players, but they never went out and replaced him. They kept bringing in people to play with him. Why would they do that if he’s so poor? All the managers, the two directors of football, they rate him enough. They all wrong? It’s got to be worth thinking about mate. Surely?

All those managers bar Carlo lost their jobs for poor results so I’m not sure if it’s wise taking that as point in Keane’s favour as he is mainstay like you say. Carlo perhaps but we played a deep block that suited him, if any other manager set us up like that we would be furious, surely.

Speaks volumes that big Dunc put him on the bench against Villa and he’s been here through all managers doesn’t it? I don’t mention Holgate a whole lot purely for the reason I don’t rate him, even less so than Keane. The other 2 I agree.

Keane’s had his good patches and there is a very capable defender in there - just not a very versatile one in terms of being able to play with a high line, tight to his man - deep block on the 18 yard line is his specialty which is why he looked good for burnley. 

[Btay]

3 hours ago, StevO said:

If that’s the case then we better hope Frank goes and buys four new ones and finds buyers for Keane, Mina, Godfrey and Holgate. They must all not be good enough. 

Well no… Sell Mina and Holgate and replace them.

Mina in terms of ability is no issue but his injuries are a joke and we can’t carry him.

Godfrey has the potential to be a very good centre back but so did Holgate at his age - next season or 2 will be huge for him. 

Keane - can do a back up role, after all we are a mid table team.

Holgate is just Holgate really and Branthwaite needs more time to develop and would benefit coming into a settled team.

[Bailey]

34 minutes ago, StevO said:

The problem with moving him on is replacing him, replacing any of them. I’ve said this before but there aren’t that many great centre halves in the league. I don’t think anyone is hoping he’s going to improve, but he’s a good level premier league defender. If you look around a lot of the other teams in the league, probably take City, Liverpool and Chelsea out of it, who has that many good centre halves?

Arsenal spent a fortune on White and Gabriel, nothing but average at the moment. They are young and new to the league, so they might improve but it’s the best part of £100m I think they cost. Would they really be any better? 
 

The five years Keane has been at the club we have had a player who has been consistently fit, and that is a major bonus. The lads who have played alongside him have all played shite and been injured and missed loads of games, every one of them. But Keane has played every week, so he’s got a much bigger sample size.
Play Holgate every week for five years and you’ll soon have no issue with Keane. 
If Mina could stay fit he probably wouldn’t be an Everton player in the first place. 
Godfrey has shown flashes of brilliance and flashes of garbage, hopefully he can come good and be the long term solution. 
 

Keane isn’t perfect, but he’s doing something right for the likes of Koeman, Silva, Allardyce, Ferguson, Ancelotti and Benitez all to keep picking him. Managers trust him, they all have. The club spent £500m on players, but they never went out and replaced him. They kept bringing in people to play with him. Why would they do that if he’s so poor? All the managers, the two directors of football, they rate him enough. They all wrong? It’s got to be worth thinking about mate. Surely?

This hits the nail on the head. Who is actually better and how many of those can we really get? He is by no means perfect but he is pretty solid in most categories. 

I think if you go through the league, there are many similar Keanes (eg Mings, Maguire, Lindelof, Ogbona, Sanchez, Dier, Salisu etc). They have their decent games but give them a run and you will see the same issues creep in. 

[Cornish Steve]

We were excited today by the midfield and the forward line, but let's not forget our defence. Going into this game, plenty were worried about Raphinha creating havoc down the right side, but we shut him down so effectively he was taken off at half-time. Yes, Rodrigo had two wonderful strikes that hit the woodwork, but other than that, our defence shut them down: a clean sheet and no shots on target from the opposition. That deserves enormous credit.