Ifs, buts and Maybes

[RuffRob]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I wonder if the club will be considering holding on to Branthwaite and just taking the hit of a points deduction.

I guess that would depend on just how much it would put us over. If it would only put us a small amount over then you'd have to consider it. If it leaves us massively over then obviously it would be out of the question.

How odd is it now that a team can consider a 2-6 points deduction hit as part of their squad building stratergy. We'll have a right good spend on the squad this year, and just take the 6 points!

 

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, patto said:

He is that good but hard cash is in shortage to all clubs even the top ones 

Cash can potentially be mitigated by adding a player in return. No idea who but it's a possibility.

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I wonder if the club will be considering holding on to Branthwaite and just taking the hit of a points deduction.

I guess that would depend on just how much it would put us over. If it would only put us a small amount over then you'd have to consider it. If it leaves us massively over then obviously it would be out of the question.

Missed this, thanks Rob. 

One thing that I don't think has had much made of it is that it's not just a points deduction, it's a performance based fine too when you factor in the £ per place. We should be sitting minimum 13th (due to goal difference) and I think it's £2m a place, so it's a £4m fine (based on current standings) on top of the chaos.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I wonder if the club will be considering holding on to Branthwaite and just taking the hit of a points deduction.

I guess that would depend on just how much it would put us over. If it would only put us a small amount over then you'd have to consider it. If it leaves us massively over then obviously it would be out of the question.

Bold statement.... but without branthwaite I think we would have gone down.  I really don't think our defence would be anywhere near as solid as it was with Keane instead of him - like I'm talking 20 goals. Call it 12 points min - put a price on that if you can. 

Rate him so highly. Best centre half I've seen for us and I watched ratcliffe onwards.

[RuffRob]

10 hours ago, Palfy said:

If you are prepared to accept the longest run in our history without a win, and if you are prepared to accept some of the worst football played by an Everton team in my lifetime that’s for sure, and if you are prepared to accept some of the poorest managerial decisions especially in game time, then yes you have your successful season, but if you aren’t prepared to accept those qualities as I don’t then imo it’s been far from a success. 
And all that you have said about points deductions, and our position in the league from last season, doesn’t make it a successful season it barely makes it bearable and just adds to how unsuccessful the seasons have been for many years now, from the running of the club and the football we have witnessed. 
And if it still baffles you try setting your sights a little higher and you may then experience the disappointment that I and many others like me feel about how successful we’ve been. 

This is a bit like a parent say to a child you can be whatever you want to be - 'just dream big and it will happen'. It pretty much ignores the reality of the ability you really have or situation you are currently in. The dream is there to work towards, but lots of bulding steps have to be take to acheive it. This club is currently at the bottom step. 

I don't think you will find one fan who 'enjoyed' this season or beleives just surviving relegation is a staple we should be satified with as medium to long term objective. However, there is nothing at all wrong in most fans celebrate and enjoying acheiving safety from relegation when you are in a relegation battle. It's simply living the moment. 

Immediate 'success' is purely a function of the current situation you find yourself in. Having come off the back of two relegation battles, a points deduction and financial wows with regard to the playing squad, then not having to go to the last couple of games is 'relative success' when compare to relegation.

This week some fans are simply making the most of winning what has turned out to be this seasons battle, but nobody 'accepts' that any sort of war is won. 

I can actually be a relatively happy fan rather than a miserable one for a few weeks at least .  People are simply enjoying the relative success of the moment we are in. I don't feel any guilt as a fan for making the most of small victories as and when they come along, or trying to taking positives where I can. Fans who make the most of a bad situation shouldn't be made out to be some sort of 'problem' or are somehow lesser fan.

Your and Haf's MO is to somehow look down on other fans who try and enjoy these fleating moments of relative success, implying some element of blame. Life's simply to short not to enjoy the little moments!!!

[patto]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

nothing will be already done - becasue at anytime before the opening of the transfer window we could (most likely be or at the cusp) of a new ownership model. 

We may not have new owners before the start of the new season so what do you think happens then are you saying we don’t do any transfers. 
I would think it’s on Thelwell and whoever is sitting in office now to do the business 

[Matt]

8 minutes ago, patto said:

We may not have new owners before the start of the new season so what do you think happens then are you saying we don’t do any transfers. 
I would think it’s on Thelwell and whoever is sitting in office now to do the business 

We're bankrupt if it goes on that long. 

[patto]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Cash can potentially be mitigated by adding a player in return. No idea who but it's a possibility.

That’s why I said it won’t just be money 

[RuffRob]

2 minutes ago, patto said:

We may not have new owners before the start of the new season so what do you think happens then are you saying we don’t do any transfers. 
I would think it’s on Thelwell and whoever is sitting in office now to do the business 

Just attaining PL status on Saturday also has significant impact on transfer stratergy. There could be a significant change in the clubs transfer stratergy between now and 1st September. I really can't see why you would agree a deal already with such significant issues to be determined.

Also, if a fair few clubs interested in him, why do a early deal on him, surely get a bidding war going. 

I am only guessing though.

 

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, patto said:

That’s why I said it won’t just be money 

Aaah gotchya

[patto]

5 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Just attaining PL status on Saturday also has significant impact on transfer stratergy. There could be a significant change in the clubs transfer stratergy between now and 1st September. I really can't see why you would agree a deal already with such significant issues to be determined.

Also, if a fair few clubs interested in him, why do a early deal on him, surely get a bidding war going. 

I am only guessing though.

 

The deal is probably already done in principle but until he signs on the dotted line there’s still time for someone else to come in at the last moment 

[RuffRob]

but why would a deal be aleady done in principle? If we didn't even know what league we would have been in etc?

[patto]

5 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

but why would a deal be aleady done in principle? If we didn't even know what league we would have been in etc?

Does it matter what league we are in

[Wiggytop]

7 minutes ago, patto said:

Does it matter what league we are in

Absolutely, in the PL, he may want to stay here for another season if he’s happy and settled, in the championship, probably not as it’s way below his ability now.

[RuffRob]

2 minutes ago, patto said:

Does it matter what league we are in

I would guess significantly. Branthwaithe not long signed a new contract - Given the clubs recent seasons performances, I am sure there would be relegation clauses in it. i.e we might be obliged to sell him for certain fee etc. 

Just can't understand any logic of having  agreed any sort of deal in principle given the significance of the unknows going in to the transfer window.

[Matt]

fingers crossed 

 

[patto]

19 minutes ago, Matt said:

fingers crossed 

 

Fingers crossed for what Matt ? Yay or nay 

[StevO]

Might be the rebel in me but I want 777 to get the club and do a good job. Prove the doubters wrong. 
We need leadership and a plan, I’m sure they will have both. 

[patto]

2 minutes ago, StevO said:

Might be the rebel in me but I want 777 to get the club and do a good job. Prove the doubters wrong. 
We need leadership and a plan, I’m sure they will have both. 

I hope your right about a plan we just need to end all the uncertainty. 
if it’s another group it could go into next season before it’s done 

[Matt]

31 minutes ago, patto said:

Fingers crossed for what Matt ? Yay or nay 

That it's resolved one way or another mate. I'm terrified of 777 but another buyer is just as likely to be bad as good. We just need to lnow.

[MikeO]

18 hours ago, Palfy said:

If you are prepared to accept the longest run in our history without a win...

As far as I know the season runs from August to May, but if you want to talk about an arbitrary run of games, how about the twelve immediately before those three months? 

In those three months we had an 8-1-3 record, twenty-five points, nearly 2.1 ppg which over the season (to date) would put a team staying at that level on seventy-three points, above Liverpool.

Five games since the bad spell? Twelve points at 2.4 ppg, that over thirty-five games would put a team on eighty-four, strong title favourites.

The whole season thus far, again leaving out the thirteen game run (but including the crap start)...12-2-8, just over 1.7 ppg giving a very respectable total of sixty points with three to play (we qualified for the CL with 61), and an almost certain European place.

None of all that is particularly relevant of course, because the season takes thirty-eight games, but it's all just as relevant as the winless streak some can't make a post without referencing. 

If you want to be down in the dumps about a third of a season then fair enough, go for it, but following the same logic we should be dancing in the streets about the other two thirds

And we're not, because we're being realistic.

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

As far as I know the season runs from August to May, but if you want to talk about an arbitrary run of games, how about the twelve immediately before those three months? 

In those three months we had an 8-1-3 record, twenty-five points, nearly 2.1 ppg which over the season (to date) would put a team staying at that level on seventy-three points, above Liverpool.

Five games since the bad spell? Twelve points at 2.4 ppg, that over thirty-five games would put a team on eighty-four, strong title favourites.

The whole season thus far, again leaving out the thirteen game run (but including the crap start)...12-2-8, just over 1.7 ppg giving a very respectable total of sixty points with three to play (we qualified for the CL with 61), and an almost certain European place.

None of all that is particularly relevant of course, because the season takes thirty-eight games, but it's all just as relevant as the winless streak some can't make a post without referencing. 

If you want to be down in the dumps about a third of a season then fair enough, go for it, but following the same logic we should be dancing in the streets about the other two thirds

And we're not, because we're being realistic.

To be fair to Dyche, since August/Sept he has always asked the seasons body of work to be judged as a whole. Not to get carried away at the highs or to down about the lows. All outside influences aside we have been a solid a mid table club this year.