Sean Dyche

[Btay]

50 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Liverpool sacked Roger’s cos klopp was available.   Southampton sacked Adkin’s to get Poch. 
 

its not about deserving better. Its about strengthening you club if the opportunity to improve comes along. 

are you telling me that if Wayne Rooney decided at 28 that he wanted to come back to Everton that we should say no cos it would be unfair to Steven Naismith? 
 

im not saying dyche deserves the sack… im saying that Everton will need a more progressive manager. 

Such a manager will only succeed off the foundation Dyche provides though - It could be Moyes -> Martinez all over.

For me, the improvement is clear to see. It hasn't and still isn't pretty but its effective & required. By the end of next season I would like to hope we are in a position to see what Dyche can do with a solid team & how progressive he can be, he will have at least earnt that right. We will never be a tika taka footballing team under him but I can see a  defensively organised / pressing team who flood forward on the counter attack ruthlessly & I am happy with that style.

[Wall Writer]

I feel with Dyche the potential to get back to being one of the clubs in and around the European spots is there (given time and assuming proper investment in players etc.).

Whether he’s capable of taking us higher is still a doubt for me, but we are way off that anyway. I’d much rather see us stabilised over the next couple of seasons than chop and change too soon and end up back at square one.

At the moment progress is being made. Once progress stops being made, I think that’s the time to make a change. Obviously, in the meantime we should have course have targets in mind and contingency plans ready.

[Hafnia]

52 minutes ago, Btay said:

Such a manager will only succeed off the foundation Dyche provides though - It could be Moyes -> Martinez all over.

For me, the improvement is clear to see. It hasn't and still isn't pretty but its effective & required. By the end of next season I would like to hope we are in a position to see what Dyche can do with a solid team & how progressive he can be, he will have at least earnt that right. We will never be a tika taka footballing team under him but I can see a  defensively organised / pressing team who flood forward on the counter attack ruthlessly & I am happy with that style.

What’s your aspiration for Everton? 
 

im not asking to be a tiki taka side… I believe dyche has only ever won 2 games where his side has had more than 50 % possession.  Leicester won the league averaging 30% but that was a freak season where they hit vardy to on the counter. With that said they still passed it well. 

im not calling for his head but im expecting our club to plan for succession in all quarters. We’ve been far too reactive. For me its not outrageous to be looking to the next step in our recovery and that is the manager who can take us from lower half to challenge for Europe 
 

 

[Btay]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

What’s your aspiration for Everton? 
 

im not asking to be a tiki taka side… I believe dyche has only ever won 2 games where his side has had more than 50 % possession.  Leicester won the league averaging 30% but that was a freak season where they hit vardy to on the counter. With that said they still passed it well. 

im not calling for his head but im expecting our club to plan for succession in all quarters. We’ve been far too reactive. For me its not outrageous to be looking to the next step in our recovery and that is the manager who can take us from lower half to challenge for Europe 
 

 

I want us to see us win everything mate.

Firstly, I don't think many expected Eddie Howe to do such a good job with Newcastle but he has. There are certain things about Dyche that piss me off tactically but I also understand reason behind why he makes some of his decisions.

I agree but I think we need to have a solid foundation & I am not sure we will have that by the end of next year. I think we need to identify a clear direction in the style of which we play & consistently recruit both players & managers that will compliment that. If we finish this season 14th and then the next say 10th under Dyche, I think it would be mad to move him on based on that however I would also expect us to have a shortlist of managers who are deemed suitable to come in at anytime (now included) to progress us further.

[Shukes]

Our problem in recent history is that we have tried to run before learning to walk. 
Im 50 how and have found you need to go through steps 1 a 10 to be sustainable. Skipping from step 3 straight to 8 will usually end up in a quick buck, but ultimately fail.

Let’s not repeat our usual failures again and again. Learn to walk, then start jogging.

[Gwlad]

8 hours ago, Btay said:

 

Firstly, I don't think many expected Eddie Howe to do such a good job with Newcastle but he has. There are certain things about Dyche that piss me off tactically but I also understand reason behind why he makes some of his decisions.

I agree but I think we need to have a solid foundation & I am not sure we will have that by the end of next year. I think we need to identify a clear direction in the style of which we play & consistently recruit both players & managers that will compliment that. If we finish this season 14th and then the next say 10th under Dyche, I think it would be mad to move him on based on that however I would also expect us to have a shortlist of managers who are deemed suitable to come in at anytime (now included) to progress us further.

Howe had an easier ride going into the job knowing he would have funds at his disposal. Dyche came to us knowing pretty much the opposite. 

[johnstockton]

Fantastic coach. We have big improvement in the last 5-6 games. Finlay the squad is well balanced. Maybe we need one more attacking midfielder.

[Matt]

26 minutes ago, johnstockton said:

Fantastic coach. We have big improvement in the last 5-6 games. Finlay the squad is well balanced. Maybe we need one more attacking midfielder.

Wouldn't go that far but agree he's making a big difference. He will have his ceiling but that's a problem for next season, ideally the end of it.

Welcome to TT by the way

 

 

[RuffRob]

15 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Based on his current performance/trajectory I would be looking for a new manager for next season based on where I think we will finish. 

i don’t think we are gonna be exceeding 50 points, more likely to get 45-50 which you would have taken at the start of the season and it would be a big thankyou for a job well done and here’s the last year of you contract. 
 

it may well be that the bottom 3 get firmed up by end of January and he can be more adventurous and if he shows a bit of progression tactically then maybe let him start the season and take it from there. That’s what Allardyce didn’t do, when we were safe he continued to play shite football and he couldn’t argue with getting sacked. 

sounds like you have a fairly blinkered and preconceeded idea of Dyche.

I have seen a manager actually managed to notibley improve the Everton team this summer. Given the tools and conditions he is working under I think he deserves massive credit for improving and galavanizing this team and getting all those player actually playing for the shirt.  He has said from day 1 it starts with sweat on the shirts - and his team are delivering this at an ever increasing consistency. 

This club has been crying out for some sort of stability, so to simply sack a relatievly successful manager after 18months purely in order to bring in a more fashionable one who has a  polar opposite 'progressive' possession based style would simply be foolhardy. We have seen the fall out of chopping and changing managers and styles - why on earth would we do that again if we finally have the oppertunity of a period of some stability. 

Do we have the players capable of playing a possession based game? or do we have the budget to bring in players who could to this at Premiership level? 

[Matt]

29 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

sounds like you have a fairly blinkered and preconceeded idea of Dyche.

I have seen a manager actually managed to notibley improve the Everton team this summer. Given the tools and conditions he is working under I think he deserves massive credit for improving and galavanizing this team and getting all those player actually playing for the shirt.  He has said from day 1 it starts with sweat on the shirts - and his team are delivering this at an ever increasing consistency. 

This club has been crying out for some sort of stability, so to simply sack a relatievly successful manager after 18months purely in order to bring in a more fashionable one who has a  polar opposite 'progressive' possession based style would simply be foolhardy. We have seen the fall out of chopping and changing managers and styles - why on earth would we do that again if we finally have the oppertunity of a period of some stability. 

Do we have the players capable of playing a possession based game? or do we have the budget to bring in players who could to this at Premiership level? 

Spot on 

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

sounds like you have a fairly blinkered and preconceeded idea of Dyche.

I have seen a manager actually managed to notibley improve the Everton team this summer. Given the tools and conditions he is working under I think he deserves massive credit for improving and galavanizing this team and getting all those player actually playing for the shirt.  He has said from day 1 it starts with sweat on the shirts - and his team are delivering this at an ever increasing consistency. 

This club has been crying out for some sort of stability, so to simply sack a relatievly successful manager after 18months purely in order to bring in a more fashionable one who has a  polar opposite 'progressive' possession based style would simply be foolhardy. We have seen the fall out of chopping and changing managers and styles - why on earth would we do that again if we finally have the oppertunity of a period of some stability. 

Do we have the players capable of playing a possession based game? or do we have the budget to bring in players who could to this at Premiership level? 

Preconceived? Not at all, I wanted him here despite knowing that his style is pretty imprinted and that for me his recruitment was to halt the downward trajectory. 
 

I expected the side to improve given that we had dcl return and money invested smartly in players and thelwell gave his vision and how things have had to be done. 
 

I didn’t simply say “sack the manager” as though he deserves sacking… I said that we need to be doing due diligence now so that we are in a position to replace him with the right person at the right time. 
 

I didn’t say bring a fashionable manager in either. Postecoglu wasn’t a fashionable manager and we likely could have got him. It’s about bringing a progressive manager, a manager fluid in his thinking and tactically flexible.  

yeah we seen the fallout of what happened to Liverpool when the exchanged Rodgers for klopp and spurs when exchanging conte for postecoglu. 

 

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Preconceived? Not at all, I wanted him here despite knowing that his style is pretty imprinted and that for me his recruitment was to halt the downward trajectory. 
 

I expected the side to improve given that we had dcl return and money invested smartly in players and thelwell gave his vision and how things have had to be done. 
 

I didn’t simply say “sack the manager” as though he deserves sacking… I said that we need to be doing due diligence now so that we are in a position to replace him with the right person at the right time. 
 

I didn’t say bring a fashionable manager in either. Postecoglu wasn’t a fashionable manager and we likely could have got him. It’s about bringing a progressive manager, a manager fluid in his thinking and tactically flexible.  

yeah we seen the fallout of what happened to Liverpool when the exchanged Rodgers for klopp and spurs when exchanging conte for postecoglu. 

 

the biggest flaw I see in your argument is that you assume that if you stick Klopp or Postecogle in charge of this Everton squad it would mean you instantly get Liverpool and Spurs - it would be pretty far from it. In Klopps first season in charge of Liverpool I beleive they went backward 2 places in the league. That would see us relegated. We have NO margin for error.

The players in this sqaud are best set up for being solid out of possession, playing a big man upfront, getting crosses in or hitting teams on the counter attack.

Why, for the sake of it, put a manager in with a totally different playing style if you don't have money to solidly back him over two or three transfer windows to bring in 4-6 quality player to allow you to safely change the playing philosophy of a sqaud. We don't have the money to do this or have the luxury of being able to afford losing 2-3 places in the Premier league as this new style beds in. 

We need to become a solid mid table team first, get the new owners bedded in, stadium finished and our revenue streams all sorted first, before we should really be concerning oursevles massivly about having a manager who favours progressive football over effective football. 

 

 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

the biggest flaw I see in your argument is that you assume that if you stick Klopp or Postecogle in charge of this Everton squad it would mean you instantly get Liverpool and Spurs - it would be pretty far from it. In Klopps first season in charge of Liverpool I beleive they went backward 2 places in the league. That would see us relegated. We have NO margin for error.

The players in this sqaud are best set up for being solid out of possession, playing a big man upfront, getting crosses in or hitting teams on the counter attack.

Why, for the sake of it, put a manager in with a totally different playing style if you don't have money to solidly back him over two or three transfer windows to bring in 4-6 quality player to allow you to safely change the playing philosophy of a sqaud. We don't have the money to do this or have the luxury of being able to afford losing 2-3 places in the Premier league as this new style beds in. 

We need to become a solid mid table team first, get the new owners bedded in, stadium finished and our revenue streams all sorted first, before we should really be concerning oursevles massivly about having a manager who favours progressive football over effective football. 

 

 

Where have I said that klopp or postecoglu + this squad = Liverpool or spurs? 
 

I haven’t for the reason that it does not make sense. 
 

Everton for its expenditure and attendance should be a top 10 team minimum. The fact that it isn’t is due to wasted money on players and piss poor executive management.   Relegation should not even be a concern for us. Dyche for all his faults like Allardyce has a way of getting enough points to survive and is overly pragmatic. Thats what he does on the tin. That’s why he was brought in and he said himself that he knows his job is to steady us ready for the next manger, the sooner that happens then it means the quicker he’s done that job. 
 

Everton as a club will not fill a 58000 seater stadium playing football like we have. Fans are already getting pissed if within the stadium.  You can argue all day and say “well we nearly got relegated” - the fact is that isn’t gonna wash with many of our supporters over the age of 45 who seen us win leagues. 
 

once we are in a position where we are ready to push on, the question will be asked of him as to whether he can adapt and take us there…. At the moment I don’t think so and regardless of how the manager is doing - we should always have succession planning.

Let’s not get carried away with the job he’s doing. He’s doing ok but I still have huge concerns over his in game management. Its poor. I have concerns over him selecting players who should be dropped.  Far too stubborn to change.

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

15 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Where have I said that klopp or postecoglu + this squad = Liverpool or spurs? 
 

I haven’t for the reason that it does not make sense. 
 

Everton for its expenditure and attendance should be a top 10 team minimum. The fact that it isn’t is due to wasted money on players and piss poor executive management.   Relegation should not even be a concern for us. Dyche for all his faults like Allardyce has a way of getting enough points to survive and is overly pragmatic. Thats what he does on the tin. That’s why he was brought in and he said himself that he knows his job is to steady us ready for the next manger, the sooner that happens then it means the quicker he’s done that job. 
 

Everton as a club will not fill a 58000 seater stadium playing football like we have. Fans are already getting pissed if within the stadium.  You can argue all day and say “well we nearly got relegated” - the fact is that isn’t gonna wash with many of our supporters over the age of 45 who seen us win leagues. 
 

once we are in a position where we are ready to push on, the question will be asked of him as to whether he can adapt and take us there…. At the moment I don’t think so and regardless of how the manager is doing - we should always have succession planning.

Let’s not get carried away with the job he’s doing. He’s doing ok but I still have huge concerns over his in game management. Its poor. I have concerns over him selecting players who should be dropped.  Far too stubborn to change.

 

To be fair you are not the first and won’t be the last to pigeonhole Dyche as some sort of latter day Tony Pullis but the fact remains none of us know whether or not he has the ability to evolve his tactics with the team

He had nine years at Burnley where he wasn’t afforded the luxury of trying to play more expansive football due to the financial restrictions he was working under and did an excellent job there

He has come here and is arguably operating under even tighter restrictions and he has succeeded in getting a tune out of a squad that many more illustrious manages failed dramatically to

So personally I think he has earned the right to try and take us forward

[StevO]

On 07/11/2023 at 18:33, Hafnia said:

Everton as a club will not fill a 58000 seater stadium playing football like we have. Fans are already getting pissed if within the stadium.  

 

Good job we won’t have a 58,000 seater stadium isn’t it.

Seriously though, would anyone actually stop going because of the style of football? That’s madness to me. I go to watch Everton. Win, lose, long ball, tiki taka, not arsed. 
 

Not had anyone near me (upper gwladys) moaning about the style of play either. Results? Absolutely people have moaned, as that is still the most important to the club. 

[StevO]

Unpopular opinion; I like how we’re playing. Seeing fight from the players, starting to score a few goals, counter attacking. Nothing wrong with it for me. 
City are brilliant, but it bores me watching them. I never liked Pep’s Barca team either. 

[Hafnia]

10 hours ago, StevO said:

Good job we won’t have a 58,000 seater stadium isn’t it.

Seriously though, would anyone actually stop going because of the style of football? That’s madness to me. I go to watch Everton. Win, lose, long ball, tiki taka, not arsed. 
 

Not had anyone near me (upper gwladys) moaning about the style of play either. Results? Absolutely people have moaned, as that is still the most important to the club. 

Yeah they did with allardyce. 

[StevO]

6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Yeah they did with allardyce. 

During Sam’s time at the club our home attendance dropped below below 39,000 three times, Leicester and Southampton, below 38,000 once, 37,580 against Swansea was the lowest. 
Three teams who don’t have a famous away support? 
I don’t think there was much of an effect on attendances when he was at the club, according to the numbers anyway. 
 

We report turnstile attendances, not tickets sold like Arsenal and City. 
 

Has anyone here on TT stopped going the match due to style of play?

[Wiggytop]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Has anyone here on TT stopped going the match due to style of play?

I haven’t, but I must admit that at the end of my first season as an ST holder I was having second thoughts on renewing again after the upcoming season as I really hadn’t enjoyed watching every game. My mood changed once gravy chops left, and I’ve never had second thoughts since, I’ve been mighty pissed off many times but always know I’ll be back next game.

At the moment knowing we are having to rebuild and avoid repeating the last two season I can handle low possession and do enjoy the counter attack style, a couple of stylish possession goals would be nice, if only to show we are capable.

[Romey 1878]

17 minutes ago, Wiggytop said:

I haven’t, but I must admit that at the end of my first season as an ST holder I was having second thoughts on renewing again after the upcoming season as I really hadn’t enjoyed watching every game. My mood changed once gravy chops left, and I’ve never had second thoughts since, I’ve been mighty pissed off many times but always know I’ll be back next game.

At the moment knowing we are having to rebuild and avoid repeating the last two season I can handle low possession and do enjoy the counter attack style, a couple of stylish possession goals would be nice, if only to show we are capable.

I said myself I wouldn't go again until he was gone if he was kept on beyond that season. I could not have coped with any more time listening to him have a go at the fanbase in interviews after playing the most awful football imaginable. I mean, when you go a couple of games without even having a shot on goal you know it's terrible. Nothing that we've shown under Dyche is comparable to what that twat put us through. Nothing. In fact, for the most part I've been pleasantly surprised with the football.

Fortunately, Bisto Tits was never, ever going to stay beyond the end of that season. He was there to milk us and then fuck off.

[RuffRob]

14 hours ago, StevO said:

Unpopular opinion; I like how we’re playing. Seeing fight from the players, starting to score a few goals, counter attacking. Nothing wrong with it for me. 
City are brilliant, but it bores me watching them. I never liked Pep’s Barca team either. 

I am totally with you.

I am also happy watching other teams have the lion share of the ball and be able to do fuck all with it against us and then every now and then press and battle them off the ball and counter attack at pace and with numbers - this gets the crowd off it's feet and the ground buzzing far more than tippy tapping around the pitch getting nowhere quick - this can lead to  frustration. 

Possesion based football if over rated unless you really are top teams doing it with great players at you disposal and winning week in and week out.   

I would rather be the good counter attacking team than be the team that other clubs counter attack against. It's fucking sole destroying having most of the possession to see the other team get the goals or have all the best changes.

[StevO]

6 hours ago, RuffRob said:

It's fucking sole destroying having most of the possession to see the other team get the goals or have all the best changes.

Like the last days of Roberto Mertinez. 

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, StevO said:

Like the last days of Roberto Mertinez. 

Those last days lasted for 2 years. 2 years of my life I can never get back. 2 years of being bored out of my fucking mind.

It's ok though because we got to add to the trophy cabinet when we got to those semi-finals.

[Romey 1878]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/in-nutshell-sean-dyche-addresses-28084891

[London Blue]

Fresh legs can make a difference though and give new impetus to a team.

But he's a premier league manager and I am not so what do I know lol.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

[StevO]

LWWLWLWWDW

Six wins, one draw and three losses (Arsenal, Liverpool and Luton) out of the last ten in all comps. 

It’s nice to see Everton winning football matches on a regular basis. 

[Romey 1878]

36 minutes ago, StevO said:

LWWLWLWWDW

Six wins, one draw and three losses (Arsenal, Liverpool and Luton) out of the last ten in all comps. 

It’s nice to see Everton winning football matches on a regular basis. 

Shit record. 

[Formby]

We aren't the finished article, but we are becoming very dogged and tough to play. That was another great away win. All credit to Dyche for changing the mentality.