Sean Dyche

[Newty82]

Like any manager on a shite run, deserves his scrutiny.

But fair play to him in his post match interview, he wasn't hiding and acknowledged he was tired of saying the same old same around converting chances etc.

He knows, and owned, that it's up to him and his coaches.

[StevO]

There is much work to do for him and the staff. 
While we can’t spend any money, and we don’t really have an owner or a board, I’m not sure what should be our expectations. 
It’s not fun watching Everton though. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

Like any manager on a shite run, deserves his scrutiny.

But fair play to him in his post match interview, he wasn't hiding and acknowledged he was tired of saying the same old same around converting chances etc.

He knows, and owned, that it's up to him and his coaches.

I agree that not converting our chances this season has been our downfall, but equally they way we consistently surrender possession with the worst passing I’ve ever seen from an Everton team in my 57 years of watching them is as equally as bad as our finishing. 
Something has to change we are on a spiral that I don’t know if Dyche can stop, we have already accepted we have no money to spend on players to change it, the January transfer window was proof of that, so let’s say we again manage to stay up by the skin of our teeth again, and come the summer we still haven’t got money for signings, how are we going to try and change the narrative, imo we have no choice but to change the manager because to do nothing is just burying your head in the sand. 

[Gwlad]

1 hour ago, Newty82 said:

 

He knows, and owned, that it's up to him and his coaches.

He also said that it was up to the players on the pitch to do their bit. Tarky was honest in his interview and looked genuinely fed up that they hadn't killed the game. 

[Newty82]

16 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I agree that not converting our chances this season has been our downfall, but equally they way we consistently surrender possession with the worst passing I’ve ever seen from an Everton team in my 57 years of watching them is as equally as bad as our finishing. 
Something has to change we are on a spiral that I don’t know if Dyche can stop, we have already accepted we have no money to spend on players to change it, the January transfer window was proof of that, so let’s say we again manage to stay up by the skin of our teeth again, and come the summer we still haven’t got money for signings, how are we going to try and change the narrative, imo we have no choice but to change the manager because to do nothing is just burying your head in the sand. 

Oh shit yeah, the passing.

It's fuckin woeful. I agree.

We look a shit tonne better when we play with pace with more straight forward balls...on the floor!

When We try to slow it down, play short balls, we do it too slowly and quickly get closed down.

We don't have players with an abundance of skill to get out of tight closed down spaces.

Go back to the first few months of the season...we were playing with pace. It worked and was good to watch.

[Newty82]

8 minutes ago, Gwlad said:

He also said that it was up to the players on the pitch to do their bit. Tarky was honest in his interview and looked genuinely fed up that they hadn't killed the game. 

100% yeah. I've no doubt DCL will know its unacceptable for him to be 20 or so games without a goal.

The defenders are doing their part. We've something like the 4th or so best defence in the league.

Problem is, like any position, there'll be games when they're not as on it. If the attackers aren't doing their part, we're fucked.

Scoring has been our achilles heel for a good few years now.

[RuffRob]

We are a considerably better team under Dyche, than we have been the past couple of years. Our performances are much more competative and consistently so.

1t has simply been down to poor finishing at the final moment. 

the irony is we have all be so hoping for DCL to get fit for best part of 2 season, and when he does he just can't score. Dyche has given him massive support on starting him.

Even thoigh DCL a better player I think Beto now needs a run of games.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, RuffRob said:

We are a considerably better team under Dyche, than we have been the past couple of years. Our performances are much more competative and consistently so.

1t has simply been down to poor finishing at the final moment. 

the irony is we have all be so hoping for DCL to get fit for best part of 2 season, and when he does he just can't score. Dyche has given him massive support on starting him.

Even thoigh DCL a better player I think Beto now needs a run of games.

Recent performances have led to me to analyse dyche teams.

There isn't a stat that measures how unlucky you are cos your opponents goally is perceived to be prime Neville southall, there isn't a stat that says "you'd be top half if your strikers were prime Romario"

however what I will say is that his teams do not score goals...... people go on about Burnley finishing 7th.  They scored 37 goals in that season. 
 

burnley fans say he doesn't make subs, they say he doesn't set up to score..... 

I see this.  I see this as a reason why players look shaky in front of goal. Chance creation is not part of our play, when do we score goals like the 3rd against Newcastle? - rare if ever.   If players aren't getting into patterns of play where open play chances are part of our play then rustiness in front of goal is going to be an issue.  
 

with Dyche it's all about corners, scoring from a ball that's loose in the box.

I did say to keep powder dry when people were getting smug as though we had a top manager.   We need to stick with him and hope we survive but he needs replacing. 

 

 

[Hafnia]

On 03/03/2024 at 09:26, Newty82 said:

Like any manager on a shite run, deserves his scrutiny.

But fair play to him in his post match interview, he wasn't hiding and acknowledged he was tired of saying the same old same around converting chances etc.

He knows, and owned, that it's up to him and his coaches.

He's telling us something we know...what does he want a medal? He's throwing the strikers under the bus to divert attention away from why are they missing.  

what he's not conceding is that our team do not prime themselves for scoring goals because we don't do things that involve technique well.

we don't pass the ball well, we don't move intelligently, we don't cross it well.  His tactics are to let the opponents have the ball and try and capitalise on them losing it.   Above all we only have 2-3 players who can strike a ball - garner,McNeil and Doucoure. 
 

Dcl, Onana, gana - possibly the worst strikers of a ball I've seen at the club. 
 

fair play to our last 3 managers, a career in politics awaits. 

 

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68459390.amp

"According to statistics website whoscored.com, the performance of West Ham's Alphonse Areola (9.74) was the highest by a Premier League goalkeeper this season.

In fact, the top three rankings for performances by keepers this season have also come against Everton, with Wolves' Jose Sa (9.42) and Fulham's Bernd Leno (9.11) just behind Areola."

 

 

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68459390.amp

"According to statistics website whoscored.com, the performance of West Ham's Alphonse Areola (9.74) was the highest by a Premier League goalkeeper this season.

In fact, the top three rankings for performances by keepers this season have also come against Everton, with Wolves' Jose Sa (9.42) and Fulham's Bernd Leno (9.11) just behind Areola."

 

 

Personally I think it's bollocks. We are allowing keepers to make themselves look like superstars.... the quality of chances and how we execute them is the issue.  

[Wiggytop]

10 minutes ago, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68459390.amp

"According to statistics website whoscored.com, the performance of West Ham's Alphonse Areola (9.74) was the highest by a Premier League goalkeeper this season.

In fact, the top three rankings for performances by keepers this season have also come against Everton, with Wolves' Jose Sa (9.42) and Fulham's Bernd Leno (9.11) just behind Areola."

 

 

My lad told me this on the way home on Saturday, 1 error by each keeper, and we could be looking at 9 additional points. Granted if we hit the ball straight at the keeper, he’s going to save it, but that’s not always the case IMO.

[Romey 1878]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/68459390.amp

"According to statistics website whoscored.com, the performance of West Ham's Alphonse Areola (9.74) was the highest by a Premier League goalkeeper this season.

In fact, the top three rankings for performances by keepers this season have also come against Everton, with Wolves' Jose Sa (9.42) and Fulham's Bernd Leno (9.11) just behind Areola."

 

 

If only someone had posted about this in the matchday thread...

Spoiler alert, I did on Saturday. I'm just not appreciated .

[Matt]

11 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

If only someone had posted about this in the matchday thread...

Spoiler alert, I did on Saturday. I'm just not appreciated .

Where do you think I got it from

 

[Matt]

20 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Personally I think it's bollocks. We are allowing keepers to make themselves look like superstars.... the quality of chances and how we execute them is the issue.  

You said there isn't a stat, just sharing that there is in case you missed it. It's a potential 9 points more which I was saying at the time over and over and can even remember the saves. 

We do absolutely need to improve our finishing but we absolutely cannot discount keepers on fire.

[Hafnia]

18 minutes ago, Matt said:

You said there isn't a stat, just sharing that there is in case you missed it. It's a potential 9 points more which I was saying at the time over and over and can even remember the saves. 

We do absolutely need to improve our finishing but we absolutely cannot discount keepers on fire.

it would be difficult for a keeper to have a bad game vs Everton cos they are guaranteed to give you confidence boosting saves early doors.  

think about it.... its true, the best thing for a keeper is to make a solid save early on.  Our players hit shots right at them.  We warm keepers up with a steady line of shite shots. 
 

those stats that rate a keeper don't take into account the fact that the player has hit it right at them. 
 

I can't honestly think of one save areola made on Saturday that made me think "how did he keep that out".  
 

The quest to find excuses to defend Dyche will continue but the long standing fact is - Dyche teams struggle to score goals. 
 

 

[Matt]

23 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

it would be difficult for a keeper to have a bad game vs Everton cos they are guaranteed to give you confidence boosting saves early doors.  

think about it.... its true, the best thing for a keeper is to make a solid save early on.  Our players hit shots right at them.  We warm keepers up with a steady line of shite shots. 
 

those stats that rate a keeper don't take into account the fact that the player has hit it right at them. 
 

I can't honestly think of one save areola made on Saturday that made me think "how did he keep that out".  
 

The quest to find excuses to defend Dyche will continue but the long standing fact is - Dyche teams struggle to score goals. 
 

Well, yeah, we're struggling for goals. That's also down to confidence though and I imagine 6 points extra early on in the season could've had a major impact.

Again, we do need to improve our goal scoring but ignoring basic facts that offer other reasons for our situation is counter productive. 

[Hafnia]

55 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well, yeah, we're struggling for goals. That's also down to confidence though and I imagine 6 points extra early on in the season could've had a major impact.

Again, we do need to improve our goal scoring but ignoring basic facts that offer other reasons for our situation is counter productive. 

whilst its the dyche thread my issues are:-

 

subs - he doesn't make subs when they are needed.  Ignores players like harrison and mcneil stinking the gaff out or being dead on feet - yet when the inevitable goal is conceded which coincidentally happens more often than not after 60 minutes onwards he lumps players on.... like "oh no...we need to change it".  The 70th minute striker change - why?  Beto was doing a solid job? why did he need to come off??? He was still putting himself about.   Doesn't make subs as required - he makes subs like he's got OCD and can only do it at certain times with certain players.

Tactics -  hope that the other team want the ball and try and create from forcing them to lose the ball when they aren't in shape.  Don't try for overloads - pass it back and get Tarks to hit a diagonal ball which allows us to keep shape and hope we win a corner.

Any wonder why the players look like they cant create -  they aren't given the freedom to do it.

Walked straight down the tunnel on Saturday - disgusting

 

 

[Matt]

I don't really know where to begin with that tangent...

Just out of curiosity, with the squad available to Dyche, how would you set up? Which players, what tactics, etc. Let's say in 4 scenarios which should be generic enough to cover most; against "lesser" opposition,  against "better" opposition, against possession based teams, against counter based teams. 

No hypotheticals now, with the squad this season, with the injuries and suspensions etc, what do you do? 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

I don't really know where to begin with that tangent...

Just out of curiosity, with the squad available to Dyche, how would you set up? Which players, what tactics, etc. Let's say in 4 scenarios which should be generic enough to cover most; against "lesser" opposition,  against "better" opposition, against possession based teams, against counter based teams. 

No hypotheticals now, with the squad this season, with the injuries and suspensions etc, what do you do? 

the actual players aren't the issue - its how the players are being used and I've said this repeatedly.  

How many times have you seen a player stink the gaff out and they get subbed before half time or at half time??? rarely happens -  there is zero consequence for poor performances.  Why did he take Beto off on saturday at 70 minutes???  why always 70 minutes?

why are throw ins played backwards?  why is our passing into the final 3rd done via pickford or tarkowski diagonals?  why does it appear that our players cant shoot? - do we have coaches who work on this????

Thats literally me scratching the surface.

If you would credit Dyche with improving our defence - would you not criticise him for our appalling record in scoring goals.

You seem to be pointing at us having a bottom 4-5 side....... we plainly haven't, we perform like one though.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

the actual players aren't the issue - its how the players are being used and I've said this repeatedly.  

How many times have you seen a player stink the gaff out and they get subbed before half time or at half time??? rarely happens -  there is zero consequence for poor performances.  Why did he take Beto off on saturday at 70 minutes???  why always 70 minutes?

why are throw ins played backwards?  why is our passing into the final 3rd done via pickford or tarkowski diagonals?  why does it appear that our players cant shoot? - do we have coaches who work on this????

Thats literally me scratching the surface.

If you would credit Dyche with improving our defence - would you not criticise him for our appalling record in scoring goals.

So no proposals then? Didn't think so.

Not sure if you've read my posts, but I have agreed with you on goal scoring issues several times nnow. I'm just saying there's a lot more going on.

 

[Hafnia]

9 minutes ago, Matt said:

So no proposals then? Didn't think so.

Not sure if you've read my posts, but I have agreed with you on goal scoring issues several times nnow. I'm just saying there's a lot more going on.

 

Proposals? self explanatory really Matt

Attacking coaches for a start - wouldn't hurt would it?

Maybe not have finishing drill where the keepers let them in (and yes that actually happens to instil confidence)

Make changes sooner and then maybe we wouldn't concede 27 of the 43 we've conceded in the last 20 minutes of a game.  He makes subs when the tempo has already dropped -  too late!

Above all Matt......... when something doesn't work - make changes.

I understand a few got a bit giddy a few pages back as though all was good and Dyche was the manager we've always needed and someone like me saying "we need to look on the market for his replacement now" was subject to laughs.

This manager has huge limitations and a few strengths which should see us possibly be ok....... we should not be persevering with him.  It was as clear as day to a few that he is not a long term manager.

 

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Proposals? self explanatory really Matt

Attacking coaches for a start - wouldn't hurt would it?

Maybe not have finishing drill where the keepers let them in (and yes that actually happens to instil confidence)

Make changes sooner and then maybe we wouldn't concede 27 of the 43 we've conceded in the last 20 minutes of a game.  He makes subs when the tempo has already dropped -  too late!

Above all Matt......... when something doesn't work - make changes.

I understand a few got a bit giddy a few pages back as though all was good and Dyche was the manager we've always needed and someone like me saying "we need to look on the market for his replacement now" was subject to laughs.

This manager has huge limitations and a few strengths which should see us possibly be ok....... we should not be persevering with him.  It was as clear as day to a few that he is not a long term manager.

 

So self explanatory you can't even give a proposal for 1 of the generic scenarios I asked about...

We'll just ignore the thin bare squad, the shite around the club affecting the players, blatant refereeing mistakes, disallowed goals, keepers on form, suspensions, injuries, packed schedule, etc etc. It's all down to Dyche not subbing when you want or telling them to aim their shots at the keeper.

Completely agree with making changes when things aren't working. But when there are other factors at play that completely limit/prevent change it's not quite so simple and that's the scenario Dyche has to work with and that's all I've been trying to convey. I agree with you, he's frustrating and we need to do better. But ignoring all the other factors is just painting a false narrative. 

[Cornish Steve]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Proposals? self explanatory really Matt

Attacking coaches for a start - wouldn't hurt would it?

Maybe not have finishing drill where the keepers let them in (and yes that actually happens to instil confidence)

Make changes sooner and then maybe we wouldn't concede 27 of the 43 we've conceded in the last 20 minutes of a game.  He makes subs when the tempo has already dropped -  too late!

Above all Matt......... when something doesn't work - make changes.

I understand a few got a bit giddy a few pages back as though all was good and Dyche was the manager we've always needed and someone like me saying "we need to look on the market for his replacement now" was subject to laughs.

This manager has huge limitations and a few strengths which should see us possibly be ok....... we should not be persevering with him.  It was as clear as day to a few that he is not a long term manager.

 

I'm sure we're spending a lot of time practicing set pieces, including corners. A few seasons ago, our corners were predictably terrible. Today, they are the source of several of our goals. More can be done, for sure, regarding finishing in open play, but that's more down to individual players.

[Hafnia]

2 hours ago, Matt said:

So self explanatory you can't even give a proposal for 1 of the generic scenarios I asked about...

We'll just ignore the thin bare squad, the shite around the club affecting the players, blatant refereeing mistakes, disallowed goals, keepers on form, suspensions, injuries, packed schedule, etc etc. It's all down to Dyche not subbing when you want or telling them to aim their shots at the keeper.

Completely agree with making changes when things aren't working. But when there are other factors at play that completely limit/prevent change it's not quite so simple and that's the scenario Dyche has to work with and that's all I've been trying to convey. I agree with you, he's frustrating and we need to do better. But ignoring all the other factors is just painting a false narrative. 

Self explanatory in the sense that the obvious things he's doing wrong need to be changed.  It's not hard Matt.... every observant fan is getting pissed off with his refusal to address the obvious.  It's almost like he's got form for this - you know like playing Michael Keane at the end of last year when Mina was fit, playing Holgate right back, Godfrey left back.... 
 

this is the problem Matt.... you got all carried away lauding his non use of youth players and no subs and making smug posts about it - you couldn't actually see the problematic ways of his myopic and stubborn ways. 

You are talking about situations that impact all clubs bar the points deduction...... are you saying that the points deduction is the reason we have thrown points away in the last 20 minutes over the last month?

He's lost a lot of confidence from many fans, not sure where he stands with the players but page 47 of this thread looks a bit embarrassing right now.
 

[Hafnia]

33 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I'm sure we're spending a lot of time practicing set pieces, including corners. A few seasons ago, our corners were predictably terrible. Today, they are the source of several of our goals. More can be done, for sure, regarding finishing in open play, but that's more down to individual players.

We conceded a goal from taking a corner the other day, we're abysmal at defending them too. 
 

there is a lot we are poor on. 

[Matt]

28 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Self explanatory in the sense that the obvious things he's doing wrong need to be changed.  It's not hard Matt.... every observant fan is getting pissed off with his refusal to address the obvious.  It's almost like he's got form for this - you know like playing Michael Keane at the end of last year when Mina was fit, playing Holgate right back, Godfrey left back.... 
 

this is the problem Matt.... you got all carried away lauding his non use of youth players and no subs and making smug posts about it - you couldn't actually see the problematic ways of his myopic and stubborn ways. 

You are talking about situations that impact all clubs bar the points deduction...... are you saying that the points deduction is the reason we have thrown points away in the last 20 minutes over the last month?

He's lost a lot of confidence from many fans, not sure where he stands with the players but page 47 of this thread looks a bit embarrassing right now.
 

Don't think I mentioned anything about youth players, the subs thing doesn't really bother me as much as you. I was making "smug" posts because you were writing him off and I was saying we needed patience, then we started winning so I was celebrating the winning and being a happy Evertonian whilst you, as usual, tried to pick holes in anything positive. 

Still no suggestions on what he should be doing thing though? Must be harder that you think then, I'm shocked! Or you have no idea and just want to whine, that's not remotely shocking. 

Fucking hell, last time I agree with you 

 

[Sev]

Dyche likes to play counter with a solid defence and a controlled midfield. Now, that's all fine and dandy, but you certainly need the right players and mindset for that type of football.
There can be absolutely no doubt, just no, about Dyche's lack of substitutions when needed. That'd be tactical and natural (tiredness or lack of concentration) substitutions. He's at this point unable or unwilling to do that.
To play counter attack you very much need good wide players when playing with one striker. They (wide players) need to be pacey, solid on the ball and have a good eye for their crosses and passings, low and high.
You also need players that are willing to pick up that ball from the opposing team which means pressure on certain players at the right time.
It's not an easy style of play to be successful when you don't have the team for it, or a few players that don't contribute to that style of play.
Personally I think any manager should always be prepared to change style during a match if/when needed. And I don't think Dyche can do that.
Respect for Dyche for helping us last season, and hopefully lose a bit of his stubborness for the rest of this season so we can actually see his subs and tactics make sense. If not, then we should without doubt be looking for his replacement for the next season.

Fact is, gents, things are clearly not working at the moment and sadly some of our players are definitely not playing up to their potential. There might be some coaching issues, I don't know, but it is Dyche's responsibility.

It was mentioned that we played (much) better in the beginning of the season where the pace was faster and the passings too, and I agree. Counter attack requires precisely that. But fails totally when it doesn't happen.

[Hafnia]

On 16/12/2023 at 19:26, Matt said:

1st in the form table over the last 6 games. 3rd over the last 10. Dycheball and his refusal to make subs and not play youth and only play his favourites fucking rules. 

This was the one Matt.   I wasn't writing him off.... I was saying that if he gets us to survive then he should get a thankyou and be replaced. 
 

pretty much cos what I seen then is what I see now.   I actually think he has been the right man psychologically at galvanising the players etc but I think he's a poor tactician, poor in game manager and stubborn.

you asked me what he should do differently and I've told you, get an attacking/finishing coach in.  He needs to change his in game strategy and replace lagging players before their legs have actually gone. He needs to look at players having stinkers and remove them.

replace Harrison with dobbin, consider Patterson as a right winger, don't sub Beto for dcl just cos it's 70 minutes..... 

 

[Matt]

32 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

This was the one Matt.   I wasn't writing him off.... I was saying that if he gets us to survive then he should get a thankyou and be replaced. 
 

pretty much cos what I seen then is what I see now.   I actually think he has been the right man psychologically at galvanising the players etc but I think he's a poor tactician, poor in game manager and stubborn.

you asked me what he should do differently and I've told you, get an attacking/finishing coach in.  He needs to change his in game strategy and replace lagging players before their legs have actually gone. He needs to look at players having stinkers and remove them.

replace Harrison with dobbin, consider Patterson as a right winger, don't sub Beto for dcl just cos it's 70 minutes..... 

 

That wasn't me being smug, that was me being happy that we were winning.

I agree with most of that but still think the other circumstances play a much bigger part. You can only work with what you've got and his squad isn't that great so he's making do.