Sean Dyche

[Romey 1878]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

That’s one part but I can’t find the video it may have been in managers questions before a game. 

I can find nothing about Dyche saying Mykolenko isn't PL ready. Not an article, not a video.

I'll keep looking.

[RuffRob]

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

My views are very balanced in my mind or do others that don’t agree with me now hold the rights to balanced opinions and views, when it comes to Dyche we are polls apart but please don’t try and tell me my opinions are less valid than yours, I’m not doing that to you so don’t do it to me, by all means tell me why you disagree with my points as I’m doing with others but don’t play the superiority card Rob your not the oracle mate you’re just the same as everyone one on here you have an opinion not the answer. 

I am just giving as good as I am getting of your replies. 

"Rob you want your cake and to eat when it comes to Dyche not his fault when we go on the worst run in our history, but all done to him when we put a good defensive display in ffs  The man can do no wrong it would seem"

 

I'll argue back all day to quotes like this that are directed straight at me.   Unfortunatley, it your problem if you find any level of superiority in the responses. 

 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Can you point to an example of what you consider to be double standards Palf? Not entirely sure what you mean.

If a manager goes on the run Dyche did in any team in any league they would be expected to be sacked, or the fans would be asking for his head, like you said earlier Mike a manager should stand or fall by their results and nothing else, that’s management. But Dyche got protected by most on here as not responsible for that run because of ownership money issues and point deductions, yet when he goes on a decent run the same people are shouting from the rooftops at how well he’s done in the last 7 games, if anyone is going to do that then they are applying double standards, not prepared to slate him for a shit run but applaud him for a good run. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

Most people are only pushing out particulaly 'positive' comments or arguements as an antidote to the very unbalanced views that comes Dyches way from yourself and a couple of other.

 

That sounds to me that you believe your views are superior to mine. 

[RuffRob]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

"His knockers can focus on his 14 game winless streak if they want to......"   just the 14 games then? 

I suppose when you look disjointed, clueless in the attacking 3rd with questionable tactics with a team looking increasingly shot of confidence and you break Mike walkers long standing record then questions may just get asked. 
 

 

Yeah pretty much, and even within those 14 games, it wasn't all poor performances, just like a lot of the games won haven't been vintage performances either.

I was asking seriouse questions myself after the home Crystal Palace and West Ham games and onward, but he also had some credit in the bank from the pre and post initial deduction run of good results and the fact he got us over the line last season. 

In the final home straight of game my option was to stick with the known of Dyche (and have my finger cross) at the helm rather than twist and just try something else in the hot seat (and also have my fingers crossed).

He still has plenty to prove that with a bit more breathing room he could develop a better team etc etc.  This run at the end of the season has simply just bought Dyche more credit to have a crack at that. He's proven he is a pair safe hands, but we all know we will ultimately soon be demanding more that just safe hands.

 

[Sev]

This is getting a tad too ridiculous for me, lads. Things are really not just black and white, especially not in this club where there has been various fronts to fight. And still is cos at this point we're certainly not sure what is going to happen.

Noone is bigger than the club. No player, no manager, no owner, no coach, no supporter, no scout etc. And to make things run all these involved have to work together, even if it can be quite painful to witness at times. Every damn club goes through this.

No matter what happened or what what is going to happen there will be issues to deal with. Not everything is in the club's hands to control at this point.

Things could have been worse ot better for season 23/24, but just to repeat myself, "Thank some god we don't have to play in The Championship". I think that's the most important obstacle we have cleared.

We need to get that ownership crap cleared first as soon as possible. Only then we can begin to work further forward towards a hopefully brighter future for the club.

Dyche did what his label says for us. Period. Whether he shall continue to manage the team depends on what kind of ownership we get. Everything else is purely speculation.

[MikeO]

20 minutes ago, Palfy said:

If a manager goes on the run Dyche did in any team in any league they would be expected to be sacked, or the fans would be asking for his head, like you said earlier Mike a manager should stand or fall by their results and nothing else, that’s management. But Dyche got protected by most on here as not responsible for that run because of ownership money issues and point deductions, yet when he goes on a decent run the same people are shouting from the rooftops at how well he’s done in the last 7 games, if anyone is going to do that then they are applying double standards, not prepared to slate him for a shit run but applaud him for a good run. 

OK, can you find someone..anyone...saying he's not responsible for the run, and quote them, because I don't remember anyone saying that.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

OK, can you find someone..anyone...saying he's not responsible for the run, and quote them, because I don't remember anyone saying that.

I found a few saying under the circumstances he’s not responsible for our position. I’m not going to post them mate but if you go back you will see them for yourself, when you find them you can post them if you like but I’m not happy trolling people who said something months ago, but look for yourself if only to satisfy your own curiosity. 

[Cornish Steve]

Here's the bottom line as I see it:

1) Job done this season. Without the points deduction (and its psychological impact), we'd be firmly mid-table and probably upper half.

2) For the first time in several years, and again despite the points deduction, we faced no final game dramatics to avoid relegation.

3) This was achieved after being forced to sell some of our top talent prior to the start of the season. Can you imagine how many more points we could have secured with Anthony Gordon still on the roster?

4) It was also achieved with one of the smallest rosters we've seen in recent years, the result of our financial straits. Those we brought in were risky but savvy transactions on minimal budget.

5) We now have one of the best defences in the league, a blend of experience and youth that has benefited Branthwaite and Mykolenko in particular.

6) We've definitely seen changes in tactics, although stability and consistency have clearly been the focus. I would add that, in previous seasons, plenty complained about all the chopping and changing in team selection and tactics. (I would venture to say that consistency is one of the big reasons for our strong defence.)

7) Dyche just won manager of the month and has received significant praise from other managers and pundits alike for doing a phenomenal job this season. Of the many positive comments, take Alan Shearer's: "What a job he’s done this season, Sean Dyche, in really difficult circumstances, a brilliant job."

We can nitpick, for sure. The style of play has not been that exciting, although there have been glimpses of a more positive style. Experience has trumped youth, for sure: Young and Coleman over Patterson; Gueye over Onana; Pickford over the others even for cup games; and so on. We cannot second-guess, though. Would youth have won more points? I doubt it. In tough circumstances, most managers would turn to experience.

IMO, Sean Dyche should be guaranteed the whole of next season, with sensible checkpoints and milestones, of course, to monitor progress. This year saw solid progress under difficult circumstances. Next year, we should expect to see more progress, not just treading water. As long as we're always making progress, why ever would we change managers?

[MikeO]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I found a few saying under the circumstances he’s not responsible for our position. I’m not going to post them mate but if you go back you will see them for yourself, when you find them you can post them if you like but I’m not happy trolling people who said something months ago, but look for yourself if only to satisfy your own curiosity. 

Well, given that we had a ten/six point decuction at the time then that comment would've been completely accurate, not something open to opinion, a fact.

Not looking for someone saying something like that at all, you said people were saying the poor run wasn't down to him, which is completely different.

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, MikeO said:

Well, given that we had a ten/six point decuction at the time then that comment would've been completely accurate, not something open to opinion, a fact.

Not looking for someone saying something like that at all, you said people were saying the poor run wasn't down to him, which is completely different.

Because of the circumstances they are saying he isn’t responsible the situation is responsible. 

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Because of the circumstances they are saying he isn’t responsible the situation is responsible. 

But he's not responsible for the points deduction, so how can he be responsible for our "false" position?

[Palfy]

Just now, MikeO said:

But he's not responsible for the points deduction, so how can he be responsible for our "false" position?

I’m not saying that Mike, give it up mate. 

[MikeO]

Just now, Palfy said:

I’m not saying that Mike, give it up mate. 

So what are you saying?

People said he wasn't responsible for the poor run? No, they didn't.

People said he wasn't responsible for our false position? Yes they did, because it's unarguably true.

Or something else?

[RuffRob]

me personally, first 10 games or so in the bad run not overly worried and still happy enough with Dyche as performances where generally OK. But as the run got longer - from Palace onward I was getting a bit nervouse and concerned, had other teams realised the how to beat our style, had the players run out of steam, nerves and low confidence coming in to games to much - should have beat Brigthon, West Ham etc, had Dyche lost the dressing rooms? etc etc, wasn't seeing answer or changes to rectify this, Pattersongate.

So circumstances and situation change - As generally been a Dyche advocate the cracks did appear and questions being asked where not being answered for a time, but he definately answered those question this past month. Probably was fortunate he didn't get fired, but he didn't and we have survived quite comfortably in the end. Maybe a lesson to all clubs and owners not to be too trigger happy. Maybe managers nowerdays are not afforded time when bad runs happen, not just talking Everton but at plenty of clubs. Lots of clubs end up going down even when they change manager in the final panic sacking.

[Palfy]

8 minutes ago, MikeO said:

So what are you saying?

People said he wasn't responsible for the poor run? No, they didn't.

People said he wasn't responsible for our false position? Yes they did, because it's unarguably true.

Or something else?

People were saying he wasn’t responsible for the poor performances because of the circumstances he found himself in, not the position in the league. I think it was always felt that we wouldn’t go down because of the amount of poor teams around us, but that didn’t stop me wanting him sacked imo any manager with the record he prescribed over should be sacked. 

[Cornish Steve]

7 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

me personally, first 10 games or so in the bad run not overly worried and still happy enough with Dyche as performances where generally OK. But as the run got longer - from Palace onward I was getting a bit nervouse and concerned, had other teams realised the how to beat our style, had the players run out of steam, nerves and low confidence coming in to games to much - should have beat Brigthon, West Ham etc, had Dyche lost the dressing rooms? etc etc, wasn't seeing answer or changes to rectify this, Pattersongate.

So circumstances and situation change - As generally been a Dyche advocate the cracks did appear and questions being asked where not being answered for a time, but he definately answered those question this past month. Probably was fortunate he didn't get fired, but he didn't and we have survived quite comfortably in the end. Maybe a lesson to all clubs and owners not to be too trigger happy. Maybe managers nowerdays are not afforded time when bad runs happen, not just talking Everton but at plenty of clubs. Lots of clubs end up going down even when they change manager in the final panic sacking.

The best example of not being trigger-happy is Arteta at high-flying Arsenal. The best example, and worst situation, of being too trigger-happy is relegated Birmingham City. You're right that there's a clear lesson here.

[Romey 1878]

Just now, Cornish Steve said:

The best example of not being trigger-happy is Arteta at high-flying Arsenal. The best example, and worst situation, of being too trigger-happy is relegated Birmingham City. You're right that there's a clear lesson here.

That wasn’t a case of being trigger happy because Birmingham were doing well, not struggling. That was a case of chasing a name to give the new owners the gravitas they wanted.

[MikeO]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

People were saying he wasn’t responsible for the poor performances because of the circumstances he found himself in, not the position in the league. I think it was always felt that we wouldn’t go down because of the amount of poor teams around us, but that didn’t stop me wanting him sacked imo any manager with the record he prescribed over should be sacked. 

So were back where we started Can you provide quotes from people saying that...or you can name names, nobody will mind I'm sure; most people aren't overly bothered about being proved daft with the benefit of hindsight

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

Dyche’s vision was Keane and Tarkowski pairing with Young on the left Coleman on the right, the most experienced players so he didn’t have to rely on inexperienced youth players what he couldn’t see in training was Young and Keane are poor, when asked about Mykolenko he was long way off from being ready as PL player, Dyche didn’t plan for Mykolenko to come into the team 4 weeks later and show him how a LB should really play against is favoured LB in Young, it was purely down to the 4-0 hammering by Villa that things changed, not a training ground situation or well thought out plan, just a reaction to his own fuck up. Your right I don’t like his brand of football, he’s poor at decision making he’s never proactive only reactive, and what I also don’t like is people pretending the 14 games without a win had nothing to do with him it was all purely down to the owners and the PL, yet when he doesn’t lose 7 in a row that’s all down to him and forget the fact it was more down to players abilities than his coaching, thing is Rob you want your cake and to eat when it comes to Dyche not his fault when we go on the worst run in our history, but all done to him when we put a good defensive display in ffs The man can do no wrong it would seem. 

Lies, lies and more lies. You don’t have to believe me about the Branthwaite situation at the start of the season, but it’s true. This nonsense about him wanting to start Keane is absolutely that, nonsense. 

[Hafnia]

16 minutes ago, RuffRob said:

Yeah pretty much, and even within those 14 games, it wasn't all poor performances, just like a lot of the games won haven't been vintage performances either.

I was asking seriouse questions myself after the home Crystal Palace and West Ham games and onward, but he also had some credit in the bank from the pre and post initial deduction run of good results and the fact he got us over the line last season. 

In the final home straight of game my option was to stick with the known of Dyche (and have my finger cross) at the helm rather than twist and just try something else in the hot seat (and also have my fingers crossed).

He still has plenty to prove that with a bit more breathing room he could develop a better team etc etc.  This run at the end of the season has simply just bought Dyche more credit to have a crack at that. He's proven he is a pair safe hands, but we all know we will ultimately soon be demanding more that just safe hands.

 

Safe pair of hands?  Very debatable.  His last few games likely meant that Moyes isn't managing us on the first game of next season....... that could still happen.... unlikely but looked a formality at one stage 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Here's the bottom line as I see it:

1) Job done this season. Without the points deduction (and its psychological impact), we'd be firmly mid-table and probably upper half.

2) For the first time in several years, and again despite the points deduction, we faced no final game dramatics to avoid relegation.

3) This was achieved after being forced to sell some of our top talent prior to the start of the season. Can you imagine how many more points we could have secured with Anthony Gordon still on the roster?

4) It was also achieved with one of the smallest rosters we've seen in recent years, the result of our financial straits. Those we brought in were risky but savvy transactions on minimal budget.

5) We now have one of the best defences in the league, a blend of experience and youth that has benefited Branthwaite and Mykolenko in particular.

6) We've definitely seen changes in tactics, although stability and consistency have clearly been the focus. I would add that, in previous seasons, plenty complained about all the chopping and changing in team selection and tactics. (I would venture to say that consistency is one of the big reasons for our strong defence.)

7) Dyche just won manager of the month and has received significant praise from other managers and pundits alike for doing a phenomenal job this season. Of the many positive comments, take Alan Shearer's: "What a job he’s done this season, Sean Dyche, in really difficult circumstances, a brilliant job."

We can nitpick, for sure. The style of play has not been that exciting, although there have been glimpses of a more positive style. Experience has trumped youth, for sure: Young and Coleman over Patterson; Gueye over Onana; Pickford over the others even for cup games; and so on. We cannot second-guess, though. Would youth have won more points? I doubt it. In tough circumstances, most managers would turn to experience.

IMO, Sean Dyche should be guaranteed the whole of next season, with sensible checkpoints and milestones, of course, to monitor progress. This year saw solid progress under difficult circumstances. Next year, we should expect to see more progress, not just treading water. As long as we're always making progress, why ever would we change managers?

We've got a £100m centre half. Jack Harrison added, a fit DCL. 
 

stronger squad this year 

[StevO]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

If a manager goes on the run Dyche did in any team in any league they would be expected to be sacked, or the fans would be asking for his head, like you said earlier Mike a manager should stand or fall by their results and nothing else, that’s management. But Dyche got protected by most on here as not responsible for that run because of ownership money issues and point deductions, yet when he goes on a decent run the same people are shouting from the rooftops at how well he’s done in the last 7 games, if anyone is going to do that then they are applying double standards, not prepared to slate him for a shit run but applaud him for a good run. 

He was defended when results were poor, and praised when results were good, for exactly the same reason. He’s running a football club that is a shit show from top to bottom. Most of us understand he’s got a really tough job at the club, so give breathing space when we aren’t winning and are surprised and excited when we win games.
It’s not double standards, it’s accepting the reality of the situation. We are a club without and owner or a board. A lot of us think he is doing a good job in extremely difficult circumstances. 

What I will say is, and I think everyone else who has a similar view of this season would agree, if the club was stable and we went months without a win then many of us would want him sacked. But we aren’t stable. We’re a mess and we desperately need some level of consistency at the club. That’s on Dyche and Thelwell to implement as there is no one else at the club in a senior permanent position. 

[Matt]

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

People were saying he wasn’t responsible for the poor performances because of the circumstances he found himself in, not the position in the league. I think it was always felt that we wouldn’t go down because of the amount of poor teams around us, but that didn’t stop me wanting him sacked imo any manager with the record he prescribed over should be sacked. 

No. This is 100% not true. Somehow you and Haf, and only you 2 on here, seem to think you're performing some vigilante service for the rest of us numpties that look at all the spinning plates and think "this is a mess, but who else spins them better? No one? Ah, we couldnt afford anyone else? OK, well let's stick it out since we can't do anything about it".

He was never given immunity. Not once. He was however defended from initially knee jerk reactions of calling for his head and repeating the same stupid cycle we've had for 7 years. He was defended because he has had us on 2 spells of European qualificiation level football after 2 years of survival at the death and a reduced squad to work with. He was defended because the stats showed we were creating chances and that the players needed to do better. No one has ever said (seriously) that he's an actual contender to Pep, but after yeeeears of misery, we've gotten a bit giddy at some success, midtable performances (argue as much as you both want, table shows it) and safety because that's just a fuckin relief after years of high blood pressure. 

Honestly, you 2 are fun to read for the most part. "Doesn't play youth", plays youth. Examples given the reaponse is "Yeah, but that 1 guy doesn't count because he played for him before and the young defender is famous in football circles, no shit... Anyway, a kid who may well have been in the team last year too if he hadn't been shipped out on loan when Dyche wasnt even there but as soon as he's back he's integrated into the starting 11...

Don't like his football? For the most part neither do I. Not because of the tactics really, but because its effective, pragmatic football and that usually means not pretty. Is it good enough long term? Absolutely not. Is it good enough for now? Absofuckinglutely and us being skint has done us a favour else we would've been relegated after swapping another manager for, well no one other than Baines and Coleman and, as much as we love them, players turning coach might be ok for a game or 2 but not for half a season. 

Finally though, just going back to the completely OTT criticism. 95% of the forum know all this. We don't need hyperbole, we don't need misdirection. We sucked it up because that's what was needed this season. As I've said previously, next season is going to so much worse as we're going to have even less to choose from.

[StevO]

6 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Safe pair of hands?  Very debatable.  His last few games likely meant that Moyes isn't managing us on the first game of next season....... that could still happen.... unlikely but looked a formality at one stage 

No it didn’t! 

[dunlopp9987]

8 minutes ago, Matt said:

No. This is 100% not true. Somehow you and Haf, and only you 2 on here, seem to think you're performing some vigilante service for the rest of us numpties that look at all the spinning plates and think "this is a mess, but who else spins them better? No one? Ah, we couldnt afford anyone else? OK, well let's stick it out since we can't do anything about it".

He was never given immunity. Not once. He was however defended from initially knee jerk reactions of calling for his head and repeating the same stupid cycle we've had for 7 years. He was defended because he has had us on 2 spells of European qualificiation level football after 2 years of survival at the death and a reduced squad to work with. He was defended because the stats showed we were creating chances and that the players needed to do better. No one has ever said (seriously) that he's an actual contender to Pep, but after yeeeears of misery, we've gotten a bit giddy at some success, midtable performances (argue as much as you both want, table shows it) and safety because that's just a fuckin relief after years of high blood pressure. 

Honestly, you 2 are fun to read for the most part. "Doesn't play youth", plays youth. Examples given the reaponse is "Yeah, but that 1 guy doesn't count because he played for him before and the young defender is famous in football circles, no shit... Anyway, a kid who may well have been in the team last year too if he hadn't been shipped out on loan when Dyche wasnt even there but as soon as he's back he's integrated into the starting 11...

Don't like his football? For the most part neither do I. Not because of the tactics really, but because its effective, pragmatic football and that usually means not pretty. Is it good enough long term? Absolutely not. Is it good enough for now? Absofuckinglutely and us being skint has done us a favour else we would've been relegated after swapping another manager for, well no one other than Baines and Coleman and, as much as we love them, players turning coach might be ok for a game or 2 but not for half a season. 

Finally though, just going back to the completely OTT criticism. 95% of the forum know all this. We don't need hyperbole, we don't need misdirection. We sucked it up because that's what was needed this season. As I've said previously, next season is going to so much worse as we're going to have even less to choose from.

Haf and Palf are going to die on this hill and honestly there's no point in going back and forth on this, but this perfectly sums up everything.

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, StevO said:

No it didn’t! 

Bloody did.... 14 prem games without a win followed by a flukey win vs Burnley and a hammering by Chelsea????!

Lucky isn't even in it. 

[StevO]

Just now, Hafnia said:

Bloody did.... 14 prem games without a win followed by a flukey win vs Burnley and a hammering by Chelsea????!

Lucky isn't even in it. 

It never once looked a formality that Dyche was being replaced by Moyes. You’re talking absolute garbage mate and you know it.

For a start, who was going to fire Dyche?

There wasn’t even rumours about him being sacked. 
 

It’s just your current hard on that you can’t leave alone. I wouldn’t even be replying if only what you’re saying wasn’t so ridiculous. 

[Hafnia]

12 minutes ago, Matt said:

No. This is 100% not true. Somehow you and Haf, and only you 2 on here, seem to think you're performing some vigilante service for the rest of us numpties that look at all the spinning plates and think "this is a mess, but who else spins them better? No one? Ah, we couldnt afford anyone else? OK, well let's stick it out since we can't do anything about it".

He was never given immunity. Not once. He was however defended from initially knee jerk reactions of calling for his head and repeating the same stupid cycle we've had for 7 years. He was defended because he has had us on 2 spells of European qualificiation level football after 2 years of survival at the death and a reduced squad to work with. He was defended because the stats showed we were creating chances and that the players needed to do better. No one has ever said (seriously) that he's an actual contender to Pep, but after yeeeears of misery, we've gotten a bit giddy at some success, midtable performances (argue as much as you both want, table shows it) and safety because that's just a fuckin relief after years of high blood pressure. 

Honestly, you 2 are fun to read for the most part. "Doesn't play youth", plays youth. Examples given the reaponse is "Yeah, but that 1 guy doesn't count because he played for him before and the young defender is famous in football circles, no shit... Anyway, a kid who may well have been in the team last year too if he hadn't been shipped out on loan when Dyche wasnt even there but as soon as he's back he's integrated into the starting 11...

Don't like his football? For the most part neither do I. Not because of the tactics really, but because its effective, pragmatic football and that usually means not pretty. Is it good enough long term? Absolutely not. Is it good enough for now? Absofuckinglutely and us being skint has done us a favour else we would've been relegated after swapping another manager for, well no one other than Baines and Coleman and, as much as we love them, players turning coach might be ok for a game or 2 but not for half a season. 

Finally though, just going back to the completely OTT criticism. 95% of the forum know all this. We don't need hyperbole, we don't need misdirection. We sucked it up because that's what was needed this season. As I've said previously, next season is going to so much worse as we're going to have even less to choose from.

It's our opinion Matt...... why does it need to be a vigilante view? 

I don't need paragraphs to rewrite everything that's been written before. He's done what needed to be done, he had a fair bit of luck that no one was there to sack him.

it may not be the opinion that others want to see - but it's a forum...... we had 4 months of piss poor football and he broke Mike walkers record but you keep telling us that our opinion is wrong. 

 

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Haf and Palf are going to die on this hill and honestly there's no point in going back and forth on this, but this perfectly sums up everything.

Dunlopp are associated with making skid marks... are they marketing them by having them on their nose too?