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Rotherham (Home League Cup) Wednesday August 29th

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15 minutes ago, patto said:

I can't not go the game even when we are shite Everton is my drug I've got to have it. 

I cant watch on telly if we are home. 

I’m not swerving it because we are shite , I stayed loyal even through the early 80’s when we were getting crowds below 20000 I was even at the Wimbledon away when there was less than 4000!

If we were relegated I would still renew my season ticket. 

It just gets on my tits that we never take the competition seriously  so I’ve had enough of seeing us put out a scratch side and getting dumped out by the likes of Norwich and Leeds

If we are just shite I would still be there backing the players as long as they are trying and putting the effort in but I can’t bear to stand there and watch us go through the motions and completely capitulate in any match . I’m a competitive person and I need us to go out and try to win it at all costs,  hence my decision to swerve it

 

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1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It counts for a place in Europe and ends a trophy drought spanning more than twenty years but yeah you keep telling yourself it counts for nothing

Are you honestly saying you would be happier finishing 7th, 6th or even 5th than winning a trophy? 

I'd take 6th over a league Cup. Personally don't see any value in it. Winning it wouldn't feel like we've ended a 20 year drought. FA cup we should go all out for. 

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3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'd take 6th over a league Cup. Personally don't see any value in it. Winning it wouldn't feel like we've ended a 20 year drought. FA cup we should go all out for. 

That kind of attitude completely baffles me, what’s so good about 6th?

Have we got a Champions League final on Friday night that I forgot about? If not why not put a strong side out and try and win it?

We should be going all out to win every game we play .

We have a new manager still trying to make his stamp on the side and the players still trying to adapt to a new style of football. The more competitive games they get to implement what they are learning at Finch Farm the better. Winning breads confidence so let’s win the fucking lot

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35 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

That kind of attitude completely baffles me, what’s so good about 6th?

Have we got a Champions League final on Friday night that I forgot about? If not why not put a strong side out and try and win it?

We should be going all out to win every game we play .

We have a new manager still trying to make his stamp on the side and the players still trying to adapt to a new style of football. The more competitive games they get to implement what they are learning at Finch Farm the better. Winning breads confidence so let’s win the fucking lot

So when do you ever give kids a chance? 

6th means you're the 6th best. What's so good about winning a competition that people don't even know the name of? Wouldn't go all out for one of them poxy preseason ones, league Cup is no better. 

We should try and win every game but if you've got a prem game 3 days later you have to be sensible. Plus if the kids aren't good enough to beat Rotherham they shouldn't be here. How do the youth get competitive games, wait for injuries and then just throw them in the prem and hope for the best? 

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11 minutes ago, pete0 said:

So when do you ever give kids a chance? 

6th means you're the 6th best. What's so good about winning a competition that people don't even know the name of? Wouldn't go all out for one of them poxy preseason ones, league Cup is no better. 

We should try and win every game but if you've got a prem game 3 days later you have to be sensible. Plus if the kids aren't good enough to beat Rotherham they shouldn't be here. How do the youth get competitive games, wait for injuries and then just throw them in the prem and hope for the best? 

You play 2 or 3 of them, mixed in with the first-teamers. Those 2 or 3 kids will learn so much more by having the first-teamers alongside them than they would if we just put out a whole team of kids that they play with every week anyway.

No problem whatsoever with some kids being thrown in but lets not be stupid about it.

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13 minutes ago, Gwlad all over said:

We can't tell what Marco's attitude to the League Cup is yet, maybe he will take it seriously?

If Marco wants to be successful he has to take it seriously and I think he will. 

And if we have to save players for Huddersfield we have got problems so for me we play a very strong team. 

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1 hour ago, pete0 said:

So when do you ever give kids a chance? 

6th means you're the 6th best. What's so good about winning a competition that people don't even know the name of? Wouldn't go all out for one of them poxy preseason ones, league Cup is no better. 

We should try and win every game but if you've got a prem game 3 days later you have to be sensible. Plus if the kids aren't good enough to beat Rotherham they shouldn't be here. How do the youth get competitive games, wait for injuries and then just throw them in the prem and hope for the best? 

Winning the League Cup qualifies you for Europe and adds to the clubs honours list. We even get a shiney trophy to stick in the cabinet 

Name one preseason tournament where the winners qualify for Europe?

Finishing 6th means you’ve still won fuck all , you might qualify for Europe depending on other teams results but that’s it 

Have a look at our honours list , is there any mention of finishing 6th?

Does Nil Satis Nisi Optimum ring any bells?

The kids get their chances by either going out on loan or getting minutes as subs, preferably when the game is safe 

i have no problem bringing in the likes of Digne for Baines or maybe even 1 or 2 kids but putting a reserve team out is ridiculous for a club that’s gone this long without winning a trophy 

 

 

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5 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

It counts for a place in Europe and ends a trophy drought spanning more than twenty years but yeah you keep telling yourself it counts for nothing

Are you honestly saying you would be happier finishing 7th, 6th or even 5th than winning a trophy? 

What’s so great about starting in the Europa against some team in Kazakhstan? Look what happened the last two tunes we were in that competition without really being ready for it. It was a distraction and, most recently, am embarrassment. Let’s get there by finishing fifth. 

Yes, I’d rather finish one position higher in the league and earn over &5 million more. I realize this is not a popular opinion, but I believe in focus and try to avoid distractions. Our goal is to finish in the top four: nothing should get in the way of that. 

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1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

What’s so great about starting in the Europa against some team in Kazakhstan? Look what happened the last two tunes we were in that competition without really being ready for it. It was a distraction and, most recently, am embarrassment. Let’s get there by finishing fifth. 

Yes, I’d rather finish one position higher in the league and earn over &5 million more. I realize this is not a popular opinion, but I believe in focus and try to avoid distractions. Our goal is to finish in the top four: nothing should get in the way of that. 

 

 I guess that we watch football for very different reasons but if it’s the money your after winning the Europa League gets you a place in the Champions League, or would you rather finish 4th than win Europa?

I might add last time we finished 4th didn’t work out too well either 

 

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1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

What’s so great about starting in the Europa against some team in Kazakhstan? Look what happened the last two tunes we were in that competition without really being ready for it. It was a distraction and, most recently, am embarrassment. Let’s get there by finishing fifth. 

Yes, I’d rather finish one position higher in the league and earn over &5 million more. I realize this is not a popular opinion, but I believe in focus and try to avoid distractions. Our goal is to finish in the top four: nothing should get in the way of that. 

not only is it not a popular opinion it is what is wrong with modern football, choosing money over a cup. Its counted as a major honour in football, its the lesser of the FA Cup and League but is still an important trophy. For a club like us who haven't won anything since 1995 to over look it is foolish. Each to their own but for me beggars cant be choosers, a league cup win would be everything for me, for too long we haven't won a trophy. I've seen us win 1 in my life time, no where near enough.

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4 hours ago, aaron said:

I've seen us win 1 in my life time, no where near enough.

Lucky you, Andy van der Meyde getting a bit merry and lifting a pint glass over his head is the closest I've been to seeing an Everton player lift a cup. 

I know what you are getting at though. Whilst I think it's important for us to rest players (especially in ties like this) there is a fine balance between selecting yourself out of the competition. 

That said, our kids should be able to handle Rotherham.

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8 hours ago, pete0 said:

I'd take 6th over a league Cup. Personally don't see any value in it. Winning it wouldn't feel like we've ended a 20 year drought. FA cup we should go all out for. 

In case the trend keeps up we need to stay in this competition so that we have one less premiership match our players are suspended for! 

 

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6 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Winning the League Cup qualifies you for Europe and adds to the clubs honours list. We even get a shiney trophy to stick in the cabinet 

Name one preseason tournament where the winners qualify for Europe?

Finishing 6th means you’ve still won fuck all , you might qualify for Europe depending on other teams results but that’s it 

Have a look at our honours list , is there any mention of finishing 6th?

Does Nil Satis Nisi Optimum ring any bells?

The kids get their chances by either going out on loan or getting minutes as subs, preferably when the game is safe 

i have no problem bringing in the likes of Digne for Baines or maybe even 1 or 2 kids but putting a reserve team out is ridiculous for a club that’s gone this long without winning a trophy 

 

 

Finishing 6th gives you Europe. Same result but earned on merit rather than a second rate cup that no one values, imagine having a bus tour for a league Cup you'd be a laughing stock.   Much rather that than a league Cup that no one values and finishing below say West Ham. 

Have a look at our honours list and there's no mention of the league Cup either! 

NSNO? Use the kids and if they don't live up to that motto ship them out. 

Personally wouldn't feel like the drought had ended if we won the league Cup. 

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No mention of thof league cup.... because we have never won it!

I agree with some of the rest your saying though. This cup is an ideal place to give some of our youngsters a run. I would also much rather finish top six than win this and be tenth.

But ideally I would like to win this cup and finish top six!

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5 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

What’s so great about starting in the Europa against some team in Kazakhstan? Look what happened the last two tunes we were in that competition without really being ready for it. It was a distraction and, most recently, am embarrassment. Let’s get there by finishing fifth. 

Yes, I’d rather finish one position higher in the league and earn over &5 million more. I realize this is not a popular opinion, but I believe in focus and try to avoid distractions. Our goal is to finish in the top four: nothing should get in the way of that. 

I just dont get this "rather finish x than win the cup" as if it means they come as a package. 

I want to see us win every game we play. The more games we win, the higher our confidence will be and therefore the higher chance we have of winning the game after that. I want to see us win this cup, the FA Cup and the League every season we arent in Europe. Its so hard to win any competition in English football now that I find it incredible that people can turn their noses up at it when we havent won anything for 23 years or gone very close to winning anything for the very large majority of that time either. 

Dont get me wrong, I do get that big clubs in Europe wont be too upset about not winning it and if you had a choice of the FA Cup, League Cup and League it would be the last choice but that doesnt mean that I wouldnt want to see us go far in the competition and hopefully win it. 

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11 minutes ago, Shukes said:

No mention of thof league cup.... because we have never won it!

Ha, I knew I should have put an emoji. 

1 minute ago, Bailey said:

I just dont get this "rather finish x than win the cup" as if it means they come as a package. 

Just assuming you might drop a couple of points prioritising it. Full team today and you risk not having a full squad to pick from Saturday or them be leggy compared to a fresher opposition (assuming they don't go all out for the cup).

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24 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Have a look at our honours list and there's no mention of the league Cup either! 

But there is on Liverpool's, both Manchester clubs, Chelsea's, Spurs' and Arsenal's. Are you suggesting it should be a badge of pride that we've never won it? It's an anomaly that needs fixing imo.

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16 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Finishing 6th gives you Europe. Same result but earned on merit rather than a second rate cup that no one values, imagine having a bus tour for a league Cup you'd be a laughing stock.   Much rather that than a league Cup that no one values and finishing below say West Ham. 

Have a look at our honours list and there's no mention of the league Cup either! 

NSNO? Use the kids and if they don't live up to that motto ship them out. 

Personally wouldn't feel like the drought had ended if we won the league Cup. 

It’s still  a good day out if you get to the final can’t beat a Wembley final I agree FA cup would be better but I’d take league cup final rather than nothing. 

I remember Swindon’s open bus tour of the town when they beat Arsenal the whole town turned out, the problem is that the big clubs are devaluing the competition by the way they treat it and sadly they are doing the same to the FA cup. 

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Just now, MikeO said:

But there is on Liverpool's, both Manchester clubs, Chelsea's, Spurs' and Arsenal's. Are you suggesting it should be a badge of pride that we've never won it? It's an anomaly that needs fixing imo.

Widely accepted we're more successful than Villa. Most people just don't rate the competition. 

Not a badge of pride, but nothing to be ashamed of either. We've won the important ones. 

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Widely accepted we're more successful than Villa. Most people just don't rate the competition. 

Not a badge of pride, but nothing to be ashamed of either. We've won the important ones. 

You're old enough to remember when nobody dropped players for the League Cup though Pete; it's only a recent thing. I can understand teams with the extra games in Europe resting players but don't get why the rest do. Even then you're potentially depriving your fans of a day at Wembley, you said earlier that you're not going tonight; if we made the final would you watch it on TV? This is how seriously City took it in the final last season....

Capture.JPG

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42 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Finishing 6th gives you Europe. Same result but earned on merit rather than a second rate cup that no one values, imagine having a bus tour for a league Cup you'd be a laughing stock.   Much rather that than a league Cup that no one values and finishing below say West Ham. 

Have a look at our honours list and there's no mention of the league Cup either! 

NSNO? Use the kids and if they don't live up to that motto ship them out. 

Personally wouldn't feel like the drought had ended if we won the league Cup. 

Finishing 6th May get you in Europe but there are no guarantees , but even if it does that doesn’t qualify as success, winnng a cup does

And surprisingly enough the League Cup isn’t on our honours list because we’ve never won it!

Whether or not you personally feel winning a trophy doesn’t end our trophy drought ( struggling to get my head around that !) the facts and history would dictate otherwise 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, MikeO said:

You're old enough to remember when nobody dropped players for the League Cup though Pete; it's only a recent thing. I can understand teams with the extra games in Europe resting players but don't get why the rest do. Even then you're potentially depriving your fans of a day at Wembley, you said earlier that you're not going tonight; if we made the final would you watch it on TV? This is how seriously City took it in the final last season....

Capture.JPG

I'm 30, no idea when it got devalued. Always been referred to as a mickey mouse cup... Except for the seasons Liverpool won it and then half the school claimed otherwise. 

I'm going. Looking forward to it, more so if the kids are given a chance in midfield. 

 

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2 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'm 30, no idea when it got devalued. Always been referred to as a mickey mouse cup... Except for the seasons Liverpool won it and then half the school claimed otherwise. 

I'm going. Looking forward to it, more so if the kids are given a chance in midfield. 

Apologies, it was duncanmckenzieismagic who said he wasn't going, my mistake.

I've always called it the Mickey Mouse Cup in recent years, but only because we've never won it if I'm honest.

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I’ll guess 4-2-3-1.

                 Stekelenburg

Kenny  Holgate  Zouma  Digne

               Dowell  Davies

Sandro      Sigurdsson       DCL

                      Niasse

Surprised no Lookman.  Something going on, but it could be several different somethings.  Also surprised to see Schneiderlin in the team at all.  I thought his injury was a little longer term.  I’m not a big fan of his, but Silva probably is, and it’s good he’s recovered.

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On 27/08/2018 at 14:40, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Interesting thread here as the definition of squad depth vs. kids seems to be in question. One vote but this year at least I'd rather start squad depth over kids. To me kids are u23s/u18s making debuts with no football league experience. Davies/beni/kenny/galloway/browning/pennington/charsley aren't kids. Also no way I'd play Lookman at this point. 

Stek

Kenny Holgate Zouma Digne

Davies Dowell Beni 

DCL Niasse Bernard

 

Hewelt Feeney Pennington Foulds Charsley Sambou Broadhead 

Wasn't too far off. Siggy for Beni and Sandro for Bernard.

Can someone explain why Sandro is starting when he is being loaned out tmw? Surely someone else could benefit from the 90 mins on offer. 

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

It’s still  a good day out if you get to the final can’t beat a Wembley final I agree FA cup would be better but I’d take league cup final rather than nothing. 

I remember Swindon’s open bus tour of the town when they beat Arsenal the whole town turned out, the problem is that the big clubs are devaluing the competition by the way they treat it and sadly they are doing the same to the FA cup. 

Don’t agree - look back over the last 12 years and only two teams that aren’t in the perceived top 6 have won it. I think it’s a myth. Top teams often make changes in the early rounds but then why wouldn’t you? If you can beat lower opposition allowing other players in the squad to game time, exposure, recovery injury etc then why wouldn’t you? This ensures that others are given a chance and also to some degree creates harmony. You look at the squads in final / semis and they are much stronger. 

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1 hour ago, Palfy said:

It’s still  a good day out if you get to the final can’t beat a Wembley final I agree FA cup would be better but I’d take league cup final rather than nothing. 

I remember Swindon’s open bus tour of the town when they beat Arsenal the whole town turned out, the problem is that the big clubs are devaluing the competition by the way they treat it and sadly they are doing the same to the FA cup. 

Remember that game really well, mudbath, Bobby Gould crying when he equalised late for Arse (I talked to him about that years later when he was manager at Wimbledon and used to come into my mate's wine bar:)), Don Rogers heroics, underdogs win, perfect!

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