Bailey Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 In a formation with 2 strikers they'd probably need less ability to contribute to the build up play, mostly because most 4-4-2 teams play very direct. Go deep early, get crosses in and have two strikers prying in the box. A very "British" game if you will. The centre forwards always have another striker with them to get to the second ball, plus your stereotypical English 4-4-2 has fast and strong athletes running box to box to join in from midfield. In a more continental, possession-based style with just 1 centre forward, the striker needs to be able to keep the ball himself so he needs strength and a good first touch to shield the ball and to relay it back to midfielders who need him to be an option to receive the ball and protect it, so they can play it forward, to give another passing option when they have the ball. An ability to turn forward facing the goal when they receive it, taking defenders out of the game by dribbling and thus creating space and opportunities for himself and others is also a plus. He's had 5 seasons scoring more than 10 league goals in Holland, Spain and England. And he'd probably have had more if not for injuries basically keeping him out for a couple of seasons. This. Thank you for saving me time to type it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 He was in the right place at the right time today... At home. thoward18, Matt and marcopaulo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 26, 2013 Report Share Posted October 26, 2013 He was in the right place at the right time today... At home. That's harsh (but quite funny). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 if I was Kone ,the way some Everton fans treat him , I would ask to be released in January - no player deserves getting ridiculed and trashed despite not having played 90 min in the PL - go somewhere else where you get a fair chance and some appreciation - I for one won't blame Kone after the hostile reception by many Everton fans - I really feel sorry for the man - I have never seen that before at any club ashamed to say Cornish Steve and Pearso 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 if I was Kone ,the way some Everton fans treat him , I would ask to be released in January - He'd MISS us too much. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scouse Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 I'm sure he still sleeps at night with his 40k or whatever he gets safely in his bank. I agree tho he does need a run of games but yesterday was out strongest starting 11 IMO and he is not in it so it's unlikely this season he will get a run in the team and if we had lukaku earlier I doubt he would be an Everton player now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 if I was Kone ,the way some Everton fans treat him , I would ask to be released in January - no player deserves getting ridiculed and trashed despite not having played 90 min in the PL - go somewhere else where you get a fair chance and some appreciation - I for one won't blame Kone after the hostile reception by many Everton fans - I really feel sorry for the man - I have never seen that before at any club ashamed to say he gets cheered when he comes on..and jeered(can't think of a better word) for missing a sitter..what's wrong with that? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2013/10/27/martinez-confirms-kone-injury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Boo Fucking Hoo. We paid a moderately large sum, by our standards, to bring him in. Virtually every job in the world requires a competent performance; especially ones which pay a large salary. I'm sure he's a nice guy and I'd be very disappointed if Everton fans attacked him personally. But being judged on your professional performance is inherent to the job, and right now he's not proving to be worth a single penny spent. If he wants to turn the tide then he should work hard to get back into playing form and start producing. Romey 1878 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 miss the best part of 4 days..loving how exact our injury comeback times are under martinez! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted October 27, 2013 Report Share Posted October 27, 2013 Kone looks like Guinness, and I like Guinness, so Iike kone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think Martinez knew that we needed a striker who could now and again score a goal. Kone is that striker who scores the once in a while goals, but so is Jelavic. My thinking is that he got these two and was going to rotate them week in week out and then the availability of Lukaku came about and we went for him instead. There is a plus point to all this, least Martinez knew our weak spot was a striker and not sign a defender/midfielder which Moyes would have done... Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 (edited) By the way I am not having a go at Moyes there, he rebuilt our squad to what it is today.....(With some additions of Martinez) but when did we ever really buy a striker with Moyes? (Yakubu, Saha, Beattie, Beckford, Jelavic). My point doesn't really go well here as we probably have bought as many strikers as we have defenders but when have we ever had a world class striker? Saha was world class but he got injured a few times and Yakubu seemed to lose it after his first season. Lukaku will be a rock at Chelsea and will be one of the top premierleague strikers in years to come. The difference between them all is that they didn't believe in themselves. Jelavic did in the first season but then after pre season he couldn't do anything anymore. Lukaku knows he is good and won't drop his head even if he is playing bad....I know I am talking pony but can't really get my point across. Edited October 29, 2013 by bluenosetoffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmashedCrab Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 By the way I am not having a go at Moyes there, he rebuilt our squad to what it is today.....(With some additions of Martinez) but when did we ever really buy a striker with Moyes? The bigger question for me is what happened to our strikers? Yak, AJ, Beattie, Radzinski, Jelavic, Jo all came here and played the house down for about a season and then all fell in a hole? Can't be coincidence that they all followed the same pattern. Which striker under Moyes was in consistently good form for more than 2 seasons ? Tim Cahill was the only player we consistently got goals from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I think Martinez knew that we needed a striker who could now and again score a goal. Kone is that striker who scores the once in a while goals, but so is Jelavic. My thinking is that he got these two and was going to rotate them week in week out and then the availability of Lukaku came about and we went for him instead. There is a plus point to all this, least Martinez knew our weak spot was a striker and not sign a defender/midfielder which Moyes would have done... I totally agree with you. I said on here back in August (so before Lukaku was a factor) that Kone was a decent player with a decent floor game and a nice turn of pace. My thinking was similar to yours - neither he or Jela was likely to be a consistent scorer, so I felt that Martinez would rotate them. Perhaps Kone would play for a few weeks then Jela for a few. Or perhaps Martinez would select one of them based on the weaknesses of the opposition - This is a fairly unconventional way to play players as usually footballers respond to a consistent run in the team, but it does tend to happen when there's a debate over which of two players should start - see Higuain and Benzema being rotated over the years at RM as they offered different qualities. This is similar to Kone and Jela: Kone has more pace, has a decent ground game and is a bit livelier, Jela has more technical ability, is more measured, generally a better finisher and probably stronger in the air. As said, my thinking was that Martinez would rotate them based on opposition, to keep them fresh, and because he knew that neither would be able to score week in week out, so it was better to hope that one could get a goal for one or two games and then the other could do likewise, then rinse and repeat. Obviously the signing of Lukaku, who is already comfortably better than both and combines both of their best qualities threw all of that out of the window, but the logic before his loan is the same. Now it looks like one of the two is surplus to requirements as you're only playing one striker. On that debate, by the way (the 442 one), it can work both ways - in the PL midfield play seems to be of less consequence than in other leagues, so a direct 442 can be beneficial. On the other hand, the fact that there are some weak midfields in the league means that if you play three in the middle you're giving yourself a head start on plenty of opposing teams and increase your chances of controlling the game. It can work both ways, but given that I can't remember Martinez consistently playing 442, and the fact that Lukaku is the perfect player for playing up top himself, I don't think you should alter your system. It wouldn't get the best out of the likes of Mirallas and Barkley either imo. By the way I am not having a go at Moyes there, he rebuilt our squad to what it is today.....(With some additions of Martinez) but when did we ever really buy a striker with Moyes? (Yakubu, Saha, Beattie, Beckford, Jelavic). My point doesn't really go well here as we probably have bought as many strikers as we have defenders but when have we ever had a world class striker? Saha was world class but he got injured a few times and Yakubu seemed to lose it after his first season. Lukaku will be a rock at Chelsea and will be one of the top premierleague strikers in years to come. The difference between them all is that they didn't believe in themselves. Jelavic did in the first season but then after pre season he couldn't do anything anymore. Lukaku knows he is good and won't drop his head even if he is playing bad....I know I am talking pony but can't really get my point across. Yeah, as a Rangers fan I'm not making excuses for him because he's been poor for a while, but it is clear that Jela is low on confidence. His body language and movement on the park is something I rarely saw at Rangers and didn't see at the start of his Everton career. He's playing at a far higher level than he did here, of course, but he's better than he's showing right now. Still not in Lukaku's league but he could be a competent back-up. He's in a rut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 The bigger question for me is what happened to our strikers? Yak, AJ, Beattie, Radzinski, Jelavic, Jo all came here and played the house down for about a season and then all fell in a hole? Can't be coincidence that they all followed the same pattern. Which striker under Moyes was in consistently good form for more than 2 seasons ? Tim Cahill was the only player we consistently got goals from I think the reason is that moyes uses the strikers not to just focus on goals, but to play in a way he feels it will suit the team... this is why Cahill was so good and the strikers.... well... pretty bad. In Moyes years at everton only 3 strikers managed to score more than 10 goals in a prem season. The fact that Cahill scored many goals was the work they were expected to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 By the way I am not having a go at Moyes there, he rebuilt our squad to what it is today.....(With some additions of Martinez) but when did we ever really buy a striker with Moyes? (Yakubu, Saha, Beattie, Beckford, Jelavic). My point doesn't really go well here as we probably have bought as many strikers as we have defenders but when have we ever had a world class striker? Saha was world class but he got injured a few times and Yakubu seemed to lose it after his first season. Lukaku will be a rock at Chelsea and will be one of the top premierleague strikers in years to come. The difference between them all is that they didn't believe in themselves. Jelavic did in the first season but then after pre season he couldn't do anything anymore. Lukaku knows he is good and won't drop his head even if he is playing bad....I know I am talking pony but can't really get my point across. we broke our transfer record 3 times for strikers (I think; Beattie, AJ, Yak) but, as has been pointed out, they're we're changed to suit Moyes' approach. I hate lazy strikers but I'm starting see that they need to be lazy to score goals. Take Jela. I pointed out before 95% of his goals were 1 touch just before and after joining us. I'd put that down to him having the burst of speed available to get ahead of the defending player or the mental concentration to focus on his positioning. It was the same with Yak, minus the 1 touch finishes. But then, 15-20 goal a season strikers struggled to make 10, because they were overworked. I was too naive to see it at first, but there is a definite trend clear to me now. But then, you have players Lukaku who have it all - workrate and skills to put the ball away, so I can't let go of my annoyance of lazy players. Mind you, you dot see him that involved in the attacking corners offering a ball to Baines to cross in, because hes already where the ball should be crossed to. There needs to be a balance for our strikers but we also need a truly world pass striker. We have one in the making for this season but we really need him replaced with a similar type of player next summer or we will suffer greatly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus jones Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 Yakubu was bought by Moyes to get one on one with the striker as he had a lethal finish, not my words but straight out of the horses mouth, actually it was in either the Telegraph or the Times which were doing an interview with Moyes at the time. Funny how things turn out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quinn31 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Funny enough, Yakubu had a killer season for Blackburn after leaving us. However, he moved to China after that and players over there don't generate headlines, so I'm not sure what's become of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Funny enough, Yakubu had a killer season for Blackburn after leaving us. However, he moved to China after that and players over there don't generate headlines, so I'm not sure what's become of him. yak banged them in for leicester a one in two ratio, as he did with Blackburn. he's got 22 in 38 for the Chinese team. he knows how to score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-boss-roberto-martinez-6262589 doesnt sound good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fc-boss-roberto-martinez-6262589 doesnt sound good... Fantastic. We now have two of our summer signings as injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I have supported him massively along with Haf but it seems like he is becoming a waste of space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Give him time. He's a good player with a strong track record. It's hardly his fault that he suffered an injury. I'm sure we'd all prefer that he take the time needed to recover fully. Personally, I pass along my best wishes to him and hope to see him back soon. Avinalaff and Bailey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 The necessary surgery for his knee will see him miss the remainder of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 The necessary surgery for his knee will see him miss the remainder of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memmaclub Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 At the time I was surprised we spent so much on him. Martinez has worked wonders this season however the purchase of Kone was a bad decision at a time when we didn't have the felli money . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 On the negative side, we seem to have pissed £6million up against the wall. On the plus side, I don't have to watch him play for us for at least 6 months :jump for joy: . Every cloud has a silver lining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 Don't understand the negativity here. We signed a decent forward for the same money we received for Vic. Avoiding injury due to an over extention of the knee isn't an attribute to be criticised - like the Gibson injury, a knee injury is a freak occurance and can happen to anyone. We have barely seen him due to getting Lukaku and despite the one game where he missed a few he has been bright and direct. Good player, don't write him off. Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoward18 Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) Don't understand the negativity here. We signed a decent forward for the same money we received for Vic. Avoiding injury due to an over extention of the knee isn't an attribute to be criticised - like the Gibson injury, a knee injury is a freak occurance and can happen to anyone. We have barely seen him due to getting Lukaku and despite the one game where he missed a few he has been bright and direct. Good player, don't write him off. Yes, injuries can happen to anyone. However, the term "injury prone" isn't some sort of curse or anything. Body parts that are damaged will be permanently weakened. Kone severely injured his knee during both the 08/09 season and 09/10 season. Obviously there are a number of variables, including luck, that will affect a player's health, but it's not exactly shocking that he's gone down with another knee injury. I'm not going to go so far as to say that this was inevitable, but let's not pretend this is some fluke accident. We basically bought a used car with 150K Kilometers on it already. Not surprising to see it have engine issues. Edited November 6, 2013 by thoward18 Lowensda, Sibdane, Steve_E and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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