David Moyes thread

[Guest Nikica]

Moyes is simply a mediocre manager and I always felt the job he did for youse was highly overrated. People said that he did a good job as he finished highly with little money to spend. There are two flaws in this argument. First, he did spunk a fair bit on utter garbage at Everton. Second, anyone who's ever read Soccernomics will tell you that the correlation is not between league position and money spent on transfers, but between league position and wage bill. Everton generally finished where they should have relative to wage bill. The job he did for you is overhyped. He's a 'safe' manager, and that trait is excessively lauded in British football.

 

I felt that Fergie's (and the Manc board's) selection of Moyes was myopic and xenophobic. There's far better managers than Moyes on the continent, but because they're not Scottish or 'Prem proven' nobody on these shores gives a toss. I'm not just talking about the obvious names such as Guardiola, Ancelotti and Klopp either. I'm thinking of guys like Unai Emery or Rudi Garcia: talented young managers who think progressively and have a continental outlook on football. I said at the time that your own Roberto Martinez is a better manager than Moyes too. I think it's very obvious that Martinez understands football and appreciates technical ability far more than a conservative, narrow-minded pragmatist like Moyes does.

 

In saying all of this, I've seen a fair bit of the Mancs over the last few years, even when they're playing 3pm Saturday (thanks to streaming). Their team is so mediocre it's laughable; no cohesion, no team play, no movement, no ideas or concept of a game plan. The amount of times they lose 50/50s or are outpassed in midfield - especially at Old Trafford - is notable, but many don't realise it because the Mancs win due to superior strikers. People only see their non-televised games in biased highlights. They've been relying on individual brilliance and Fergie's will for far too long, and Moyes isn't getting away with it - well he did today, because they were shocking, but they scored two late goals because Stoke shit themselves and retreated. Getting out of jail like that that won't happen often under Davie Moyes. It was such a trait of Ferguson's tenure that without it they will amass far fewer points. Last week against Southampton they missed some nice opportunities, but in the second half Soton passed them off the park, and fully deserved the equaliser - not that you'd know from the shockingly one-sided MOTD highlights which did no justice to Soton whatsoever. That's what will happen when they play really good sides who press them, because their major achilles heel is that they're rubbish at creating centrally and most of their players need plenty of space to work in - if they're pressed they don't have the technical ability to weave their way out of it.

 

I hate Ferguson and have been very critical of his European record, but he had domestic football sussed and knew how to win games even when playing like shite. Moyes doesn't and that will be their downfall. As stated by others already in this thread, Moyes is a reactive manager, not proactive. That cowardice will be to their detriment as managers at clubs like Man United can't think that way. They'll still finish higher than they are now but they've got no chance of winning the title - not with that squad and manager. It's funny that people in the media (and fans) tried to tell us all that Moyes was the messiah and that he must be the right man for the job because he was Ferguson's choice. Goes to show how many premface sheep there are in this country who are suckers for appealing to authority. From the way they talk you'd think Ferguson was an infallible robot who never made mistakes. Ferguson has shoulder some blame too for the average, ageing squad that he's left Moyes.

 

The main problem is that Moyes is a tactical troglodyte. But that's not the funniest thing about this whole fiasco; the funniest thing is that people think Moyes is a man whose character is in Fergie's own image i.e. a tough, no-nonsense guy from Glasgow...this despite the fact that Moyes grew up in Bearsden, which is one of the most affluent areas of the UK and nothing like the 1940s and 1950s Govan which Fergie grew up in. Again, it shows the power of media indoctrination.

 

To conclude this post (well, not quite, as I'm editing to reply to a quote), I'd like to apologise for the somewhat passive-aggressive tone, and anything which may be construed as belittling what Everton have accomplished over the past decade. I had many Mancs insult me for saying that Moyes wasn't the right man for the job, so I'm understandably feeling vindicated so far and wanted to gloat a bit. He might turn it round, but I highly doubt it as he's not a very good manager.

 

"SAF does what is right for him, did he consider Man United when he greedily pursued stud rights from Rock of Gibralter, destroying his relationship with Magnier and McManus who showed their power by releasing the 99 questions regarding his dealings and then selling their shares to the glazers - thereby turning United into a debt monster."

 

Just selecting one quote from plenty of good ones in here. What you say there is spot on Hafnia, but try telling that to some of the idiotic plastic Mancs who worship at his altar.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Nikica

[Cornish Steve]

Was very surprised to learn that Reds fans booed one of their players today when he was taken off. It must have been a while since boos rang out at OT.

[Cornish Steve]

Not a David Moyes issue per se, but it made the national headlines in the US that ManU used a swastika and a Nazi slogan in a recent email to fans. They've been slammed for this, and it will undoubtedly hit their reputation overseas.

[Guest Nikica]

They boo the team all the time mate. They're also the very definition of 'sing when you're winning' fans. They have this strange belief that they're better than every other clubs' fans, when the truth is they're worse than most, especially given their success in the Sky generation.

 

That swastika thing looks like much ado about nothing; it seems more accidental than anything. I hope so anyway as I fucking hate racists and neo-Nazis.

[Hafnia]

Moyes is simply a mediocre manager and I always felt the job he did for youse was highly overrated. People said that he did a good job as he finished highly with little money to spend. There are two flaws in this argument. First, he did spunk a fair bit on utter garbage at Everton. Second, anyone who's ever read Soccernomics will tell you that the correlation is not between league position and money spent on transfers, but between league position and wage bill. Everton generally finished where they should have relative to wage bill. The job he did for you is overhyped. He's a 'safe' manager, and that trait is excessively lauded in British football.

 

I felt that Fergie's (and the Manc board's) selection of Moyes was myopic and xenophobic. There's far better managers than Moyes on the continent, but because they're not Scottish or 'Prem proven' nobody on these shores gives a toss. I'm not just talking about the obvious names such as Guardiola, Ancelotti and Klopp either. I'm thinking of guys like Unai Emery or Rudi Garcia: talented young managers who think progressively and have a continental outlook on football. I said at the time that your own Roberto Martinez is a better manager than Moyes too. I think it's very obvious that Martinez understands football and appreciates technical ability far more than a conservative, narrow-minded pragmatist like Moyes does.

 

In saying all of this, I've seen a fair bit of the Mancs over the last few years, even when they're playing 3pm Saturday (thanks to streaming). Their team is so mediocre it's laughable; no cohesion, no team play, no movement, no ideas or concept of a game plan. The amount of times they lose 50/50s or are outpassed in midfield - especially at Old Trafford - is notable, but many don't realise it because the Mancs win due to superior strikers. People only see their non-televised games in biased highlights. They've been relying on individual brilliance and Fergie's will for far too long, and Moyes isn't getting away with it - well he did today, because they were shocking, but they scored two late goals because Stoke shit themselves and retreated. Getting out of jail like that that won't happen often under Davie Moyes. It was such a trait of Ferguson's tenure that without it they will amass far fewer points. Last week against Southampton they missed some nice opportunities, but in the second half Soton passed them off the park, and fully deserved the equaliser - not that you'd know from the shockingly one-sided MOTD highlights which did no justice to Soton whatsoever. That's what will happen when they play really good sides who press them, because their major achilles heel is that they're rubbish at creating centrally and most of their players need plenty of space to work in - if they're pressed they don't have the technical ability to weave their way out of it.

 

I hate Ferguson and have been very critical of his European record, but he had domestic football sussed and knew how to win games even when playing like shite. Moyes doesn't and that will be their downfall. As stated by others already in this thread, Moyes is a reactive manager, not proactive. That cowardice will be to their detriment as managers at clubs like Man United can't think that way. They'll still finish higher than they are now but they've got no chance of winning the title - not with that squad and manager. It's funny that people in the media (and fans) tried to tell us all that Moyes was the messiah and that he must be the right man for the job because he was Ferguson's choice. Goes to show how many premface sheep there are in this country who are suckers for appealing to authority. From the way they talk you'd think Ferguson was an infallible robot who never made mistakes. Ferguson has shoulder some blame too for the average, ageing squad that he's left Moyes.

 

The main problem is that Moyes is a tactical troglodyte. But that's not the funniest thing about this whole fiasco; the funniest thing is that people think Moyes is a man whose character is in Fergie's own image i.e. a tough, no-nonsense guy from Glasgow...this despite the fact that Moyes grew up in Bearsden, which is one of the most affluent areas of the UK and nothing like the 1940s and 1950s Govan which Fergie grew up in. Again, it shows the power of media indoctrination.

 

To conclude this post (well, not quite, as I'm editing to reply to a quote), I'd like to apologise for the somewhat passive-aggressive tone, and anything which may be construed as belittling what Everton have accomplished over the past decade. I had many Mancs insult me for saying that Moyes wasn't the right man for the job, so I'm understandably feeling vindicated so far and wanted to gloat a bit. He might turn it round, but I highly doubt it as he's not a very good manager.

 

"SAF does what is right for him, did he consider Man United when he greedily pursued stud rights from Rock of Gibralter, destroying his relationship with Magnier and McManus who showed their power by releasing the 99 questions regarding his dealings and then selling their shares to the glazers - thereby turning United into a debt monster."

 

Just selecting one quote from plenty of good ones in here. What you say there is spot on Hafnia, but try telling that to some of the idiotic plastic Mancs who worship at his altar.

great post. like yourself I'm enjoying the gloating somewhat, if it wasn't for the mancs behavior in the transfer window I would be less so, but I am.

 

I actually think that we could have replaced Moyes with a few managers and done the same if not better. Martinez was always the one though.

 

there is a massive population of prem faced sheep and we see it all the time. Motd has a lot to answer for. did anyone notice that they highlighted McCarthys tackle yesterday as a "should have seen red", yet when McCarthy was done by Milner in a worse one they didn't bring it up!? - disgrace.

[Romey 1878]

Was very surprised to learn that Reds fans booed one of their players today when he was taken off. It must have been a while since boos rang out at OT.

 

 

It was Nani, so I don't blame them.

[Lowensda]

Moyes had only just given him a 5 year contract too

[Romey 1878]

Moyes had only just given him a 5 year contract too

 

 

Couldn't believe that when it was announced a little while ago.

[MikeO]

 

Couldn't believe that when it was announced a little while ago.

 

Lack of communication between Moyes and the chief exec apparently; what he really wanted was to give a new contract to the nanny in United's creche.

[Guest Nikica]

great post. like yourself I'm enjoying the gloating somewhat, if it wasn't for the mancs behavior in the transfer window I would be less so, but I am.

 

I actually think that we could have replaced Moyes with a few managers and done the same if not better. Martinez was always the one though.

 

there is a massive population of prem faced sheep and we see it all the time. Motd has a lot to answer for. did anyone notice that they highlighted McCarthys tackle yesterday as a "should have seen red", yet when McCarthy was done by Milner in a worse one they didn't bring it up!? - disgrace.

 

Yeah, the British media has a lot to answer for. Not only the ex-pros, but the vast majority of 'journalists' are stealing a living. How guys like Daniel Taylor and that fat slob Martin Samuel are employed to write about football is anyone's guess. Compare their idiocy to the likes of Gab Marcotti, Sid Lowe, Jonathan Wilson or Rafael Honigstein...

 

Sadly much of the British public is weak-willed and takes their cue from the media, hence the relentless hyping of anyone who's 'PL proven' as well as the claim that Barca are boring because they 'pass too much'. It's no wonder British football is in the state it is in.

[Matt]

Moyes is simply a mediocre manager and I always felt the job he did for youse was highly overrated. People said that he did a good job as he finished highly with little money to spend. There are two flaws in this argument. First, he did spunk a fair bit on utter garbage at Everton. Second, anyone who's ever read Soccernomics will tell you that the correlation is not between league position and money spent on transfers, but between league position and wage bill. Everton generally finished where they should have relative to wage bill. The job he did for you is overhyped. He's a 'safe' manager, and that trait is excessively lauded in British football.

 

I felt that Fergie's (and the Manc board's) selection of Moyes was myopic and xenophobic. There's far better managers than Moyes on the continent, but because they're not Scottish or 'Prem proven' nobody on these shores gives a toss. I'm not just talking about the obvious names such as Guardiola, Ancelotti and Klopp either. I'm thinking of guys like Unai Emery or Rudi Garcia: talented young managers who think progressively and have a continental outlook on football. I said at the time that your own Roberto Martinez is a better manager than Moyes too. I think it's very obvious that Martinez understands football and appreciates technical ability far more than a conservative, narrow-minded pragmatist like Moyes does.

 

In saying all of this, I've seen a fair bit of the Mancs over the last few years, even when they're playing 3pm Saturday (thanks to streaming). Their team is so mediocre it's laughable; no cohesion, no team play, no movement, no ideas or concept of a game plan. The amount of times they lose 50/50s or are outpassed in midfield - especially at Old Trafford - is notable, but many don't realise it because the Mancs win due to superior strikers. People only see their non-televised games in biased highlights. They've been relying on individual brilliance and Fergie's will for far too long, and Moyes isn't getting away with it - well he did today, because they were shocking, but they scored two late goals because Stoke shit themselves and retreated. Getting out of jail like that that won't happen often under Davie Moyes. It was such a trait of Ferguson's tenure that without it they will amass far fewer points. Last week against Southampton they missed some nice opportunities, but in the second half Soton passed them off the park, and fully deserved the equaliser - not that you'd know from the shockingly one-sided MOTD highlights which did no justice to Soton whatsoever. That's what will happen when they play really good sides who press them, because their major achilles heel is that they're rubbish at creating centrally and most of their players need plenty of space to work in - if they're pressed they don't have the technical ability to weave their way out of it.

 

I hate Ferguson and have been very critical of his European record, but he had domestic football sussed and knew how to win games even when playing like shite. Moyes doesn't and that will be their downfall. As stated by others already in this thread, Moyes is a reactive manager, not proactive. That cowardice will be to their detriment as managers at clubs like Man United can't think that way. They'll still finish higher than they are now but they've got no chance of winning the title - not with that squad and manager. It's funny that people in the media (and fans) tried to tell us all that Moyes was the messiah and that he must be the right man for the job because he was Ferguson's choice. Goes to show how many premface sheep there are in this country who are suckers for appealing to authority. From the way they talk you'd think Ferguson was an infallible robot who never made mistakes. Ferguson has shoulder some blame too for the average, ageing squad that he's left Moyes.

 

The main problem is that Moyes is a tactical troglodyte. But that's not the funniest thing about this whole fiasco; the funniest thing is that people think Moyes is a man whose character is in Fergie's own image i.e. a tough, no-nonsense guy from Glasgow...this despite the fact that Moyes grew up in Bearsden, which is one of the most affluent areas of the UK and nothing like the 1940s and 1950s Govan which Fergie grew up in. Again, it shows the power of media indoctrination.

 

To conclude this post (well, not quite, as I'm editing to reply to a quote), I'd like to apologise for the somewhat passive-aggressive tone, and anything which may be construed as belittling what Everton have accomplished over the past decade. I had many Mancs insult me for saying that Moyes wasn't the right man for the job, so I'm understandably feeling vindicated so far and wanted to gloat a bit. He might turn it round, but I highly doubt it as he's not a very good manager.

 

"SAF does what is right for him, did he consider Man United when he greedily pursued stud rights from Rock of Gibralter, destroying his relationship with Magnier and McManus who showed their power by releasing the 99 questions regarding his dealings and then selling their shares to the glazers - thereby turning United into a debt monster."

 

Just selecting one quote from plenty of good ones in here. What you say there is spot on Hafnia, but try telling that to some of the idiotic plastic Mancs who worship at his altar.

Cracking post for the most part

[Guest Nikica]

Thanks. I do quite like you Matt, I always have. However, that post of yours in the other thread has me stunned.

[Matt]

Thanks. I do quite like you Matt, I always have. However, that post of yours in the other thread has me stunned.

sorry, tired and hungover, maybe im lacking the required tact for an in depth discussion at the moment. I was just surprised at your response to Avin, its his (and my opinion), doesnt have to be media influenced at all. Will leave that discussion for that thread though

 

Where have you been, disappeared for a while.

[Guest Nikica]

sorry, tired and hungover, maybe im lacking the required tact for an in depth discussion at the moment. I was just surprised at your response to Avin, its his (and my opinion), doesnt have to be media influenced at all. Will leave that discussion for that thread though

 

Where have you been, disappeared for a while.

 

I only replied somewhat disparagingly because of what he said i.e. that nobody can be the best in the world until they've done it in the PL. I'm not saying the PL is not a top league, I'm simply saying that that sort of snobbery and elitism is rubbish.

 

I've had some personal problems, as well as being busy with other things. I tend to drift in and out of forums as there doesn't seem to be enough time in the day given I have a multitude of other interests and responsibilities.

 

Don't take anything I say personally though - I'm argumentative and never hold a grudge over football. Putting things in perspective it's only a game really (despite what Shankly said). I met some of my best friends offline and online through heated football debate

Edited October 27, 2013 by Nikica

[Hafnia]

I seen a lad for our local west Cheshire league, tidy enough, nothing major, ... turns out he scored this....

 

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DACxXgWfCsdc%26desktop_uri%3D%252Fwatch%253Fv%253DACxXgWfCsdc&sa=U&ei=djZtUsyTO-Sw0QXf8ICoCQ&ved=0CA4QtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNH8Hnt90xX0l-68g2-iEdn8dHqSKQ

 

 

now I never had him down for that... point being average players can appear amazing

[Matt]

cracking finish!

[Hafnia]

cracking finish!

yep Sean thornton, been released from his second Welsh league team due to playing whilst drunk. threw it all away.

 

but it shows you it's a game of margins.

[Romey 1878]

yep Sean thornton, been released from his second Welsh league team due to playing whilst drunk. threw it all away.

 

but it shows you it's a game of margins.

 

 

Isn't he the former Tranmere player?

[Hafnia]

 

 

Isn't he the former Tranmere player?

 

yep, got nabbed by sunderland and did well at first till he got carried away with himself. As I say, he has ended up, playing at a lower level and not really standing out. Like a reverse of jason mcateer.

[Hafnia]

had a nose at redcafe to see uniteds fans opinions of moyes. Themes tend to be:-

 

• horrible football, no flow or pace, get it out wide and cross it in - apparently the majority of their play is by crossing the ball... this was something we seen at Everton and maybe we were fine with baines being a great crosser of the ball and having a cahill or fellaini
  
• £27m wasted... Felliani has not impressed their fans one bit. Slow, limited passing, and not as "tough" as they thought. He has sat out their last two games which they won, basically he can't get into a poor midfield.
  
• Coaches. Basically moyes has two novices coaching a championship winning team... they do not understand how and why he got rid of SAF backroom staff.
  
• RVP. The man who probably won them the title last year looks a shadow of the player. I jokingly said Moyes would have him working the channels before he went there... it looks like he has struggled with united looking to get crosses into the box etc as opposed to using RVP's bright movement and link up play.

 

He may address these issues and make some improvements but based on what I have seen already this season United are not anywhere near top 4 quality. I am actually looking forward to playing them.

[Vranny]

£27m wasted... Felliani has not impressed their fans one bit. Slow, limited passing, and not as "tough" as they thought. He has sat out their last two games which they won, basically he can't get into a poor midfield.

 

Apparently Phil Jones has looked much better than him in midfield, which pretty much tells you everything you need to know

[Hafnia]

 

Apparently Phil Jones has looked much better than him in midfield, which pretty much tells you everything you need to know

 

I think we all know that felli is never a bad player, but I think we all knew he was a "niche" player. Certain games he stood out in and others he looked average.

 

My initial gripes with him were that he wasn't "zippy" and able to shuttle run and press the opposition - more a plodder who needed to be intelligently positioned. He overcame this by being positionally smart.

 

I just don 't think he fits into the style of play that united players are used to, if they get fletcher back fit then the fans will want him as their midfield destroyer.

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24738863

 

Granted, its Round speaking but thought Id put it here....

[Cornish Steve]

Coming from behind to beat Sunderland and then Stoke by a single goal constitutes part of a turn-around? If I was a Reds supporter, I'd want to see a win against a team in the top half of the table. There haven't been any yet.

[Sibdane]

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/crazy-photobomb-david-moyes-photobombs-a-man-united-fans-picture/

 

I thought this was pretty funny.

 

Well played, Moyes.

[Dalziel Kane]

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/crazy-photobomb-david-moyes-photobombs-a-man-united-fans-picture/

 

I thought this was pretty funny.

 

Well played, Moyes.

 

Anyone who uses words such as 'LOLZ' should be blasted point blank in the face with an elephant gun

 

Was the article written by a twelve year old girl ? In any event, I decided to risk a look and found nothing to get excited about, and it didn't generate much - if any - humor, but then you see it all began on some non-event social network page, so it really presents little in way of surprise. If a dog took a shit on the footpath there would be some furore over it.

 

Trivialities aside, I wasn't aware Manchester United had a comprehensive win in the League Cup, and while caring little about their progress this season, or the League Cup as a whole, the fact remains Moyes has a chance to win the damn thing and finally manage a team to that elusive trophy that he was unable to achieve in eleven years at this club. Would be a bit of a smack in the teeth to see Moyes (so soon) manage another team to a trophy after watching for over a decade of his failures here, but this current campaign still has a long way to run. It's still relatively early days but got a sneaking suspicion that Moyes and his new team may just pull off something by end of season.

[MikeO]

Is this just me?

 

Have a look at this vid on the BBC.....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24864334

 

Has DM gone ginger again? He was going grey but seems to have gone back to his natural colour.

 

Lack of stress or a bottle of dye? You decide .

[Dalziel Kane]

A significant period of inactivity on these pages has been interrupted by 'an observation of David Moyes hair color'..

 

I did indeed try to view, but the video was non-cooperative, and when attempting some other general research of any news of Moyes color change, it yeilded little in way of results.

 

Only to add closure to this item, I couldn't envisage Moyes using hair dye, and then the other option wasn't viable, so came to the conclusion it must be attributed to some natural phenomenon.

[Cornish Steve]

Despite their recent run of success, I still don't see the fluency in ManU's play. Against Cardiff, their midfield was dreadful. They are playing like a mid-table team, not champions. Frankly, Fellaini is doing little for them right now, and Cleverly is simply awful. I'm not sure that the pressure is off David Moyes just yet. I'm actually looking forward to our game at OT.

[Lowensda]

Cleverly is truely shocking. How the guy starts for a top 4 team and also our national team is a fucking joke.