Lowensda Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 The Chang deal is just another example of Elstone taking the easy route. He may have done well in Rugby League for St Helens but he's in way over his head being a CEO of a PL club. Absolutely. Chang deal was easy. No need to negotiate or amend contracts. They need binning off soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Currently in Dubai, Arsenal and Real Madrid, much bigger clubs than us, but as they are sponsored by Emirates they are everywhere! Also, back to Thailand, there was a fair bit of Leicester exposure on King Power adverts. Not loads, but plenty more than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147849 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147849 some very glaring flaws. just because a dividend wasn't given doesn't mean any director couldn't have taken money out of the club. any half rate accountant could get money out and have it look up to par. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 some very glaring flaws. just because a dividend wasn't given doesn't mean any director couldn't have taken money out of the club. any half rate accountant could get money out and have it look up to par. Not for first time I've seen a bullshit article on that site. I think it's a creation of elstone, I honestly do. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147781 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 For crying out loud. It's cretins like that that keep Kenwright at the helm. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147781 That last comment was you wasn't it Haf. Bet my house on it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 (edited) That last comment was you wasn't it Haf. Bet my house on it . Guilty!!!! You've kept your house!!! Edited July 30, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan1878 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 For crying out loud. It's cretins like that that keep Kenwright at the helm. Unfortunately it is people like you who kill the debate. At least challenge the article with an intelligent response rather than reverting to insulting the author. It is this type of response that put people off being part of the movement to remove Bill and Co duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan1878 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 some very glaring flaws. just because a dividend wasn't given doesn't mean any director couldn't have taken money out of the club. any half rate accountant could get money out and have it look up to par. Everton use highly respected internationally renowned auditors Deliotte. They will not be signing off accounts which are not a true and fair reflection and they certainly would not allow for an organisation to not declare funds taken out of the company by the shareholders. This is illegal practice!!! Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Everton use highly respected internationally renowned auditors Deliotte. They will not be signing off accounts which are not a true and fair reflection and they certainly would not allow for an organisation to not declare funds taken out of the company by the shareholders. This is illegal practice!!! Unfortunately logic nor truth have any part to play in the " Where has the Arteta money gone? " logic Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Everton use highly respected internationally renowned auditors Deliotte. They will not be signing off accounts which are not a true and fair reflection and they certainly would not allow for an organisation to not declare funds taken out of the company by the shareholders. This is illegal practice!!! Thank-you. Rational criticism of the board I can take but fabricated and baseless invention that some of our more gullible fans swallow whole doesn't help at all. Stick around Dan, welcome to the site. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Thank-you. Rational criticism of the board I can take but fabricated and baseless invention that some of our more gullible fans swallow whole doesn't help at all. Stick around Dan, welcome to the site. I think we are on the same page here I come across as a so called " apologist " just because I don't buy into the board using the club as a money laundering franchise theory I find it incredulous that educated men could fall for this BU spin. Love him or hate him I honestly believe BK is an honest and honourable man who has always acted in what he believes is the best interests of the club and I will always be grateful that he was instrumental in rescuing the club from Peter Johnson I whole heartedly agree that he has got it painfully wrong on many occasions and I agree the club cant move forward with him at the helm but some of the bollocks that the BU lobby spout makes my skin crawl For me he is guilty of not being the best businessman in the world and equally guilty of not being a multi billionaire oligarch , but fraudster ? , liar? devils reincarnation ? no I don't think so MikeO and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Welcome Dan, I echo Mike's sentiments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think we are on the same page here I come across as a so called " apologist " just because I don't buy into the board using the club as a money laundering franchise theory I find it incredulous that educated men could fall for this BU spin. Love him or hate him I honestly believe BK is an honest and honourable man who has always acted in what he believes is the best interests of the club and I will always be grateful that he was instrumental in rescuing the club from Peter Johnson I whole heartedly agree that he has got it painfully wrong on many occasions and I agree the club cant move forward with him at the helm but some of the bollocks that the BU lobby spout makes my skin crawl For me he is guilty of not being the best businessman in the world and equally guilty of not being a multi billionaire oligarch , but fraudster ? , liar? devils reincarnation ? no I don't think so Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Kenwrights biggest mistake was who he brought in to buy Gregg's share. He always says we're looking for investors. Is there any evidence that Earl/Green has ever "invested" in the club or were they just brought in to give Bill full control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 I think we are on the same page here I come across as a so called " apologist " just because I don't buy into the board using the club as a money laundering franchise theory I find it incredulous that educated men could fall for this BU spin. Love him or hate him I honestly believe BK is an honest and honourable man who has always acted in what he believes is the best interests of the club and I will always be grateful that he was instrumental in rescuing the club from Peter Johnson I whole heartedly agree that he has got it painfully wrong on many occasions and I agree the club cant move forward with him at the helm but some of the bollocks that the BU lobby spout makes my skin crawl For me he is guilty of not being the best businessman in the world and equally guilty of not being a multi billionaire oligarch , but fraudster ? , liar? devils reincarnation ? no I don't think so Perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Everton use highly respected internationally renowned auditors Deliotte. They will not be signing off accounts which are not a true and fair reflection and they certainly would not allow for an organisation to not declare funds taken out of the company by the shareholders. This is illegal practice!!!Sorry I didn't explain myself. I don't think the board is doing anything illegal, on the contrary their accountants are top notch (so are the mobs, their books are always decent). But money can disappear legally through a partnership with a trade vendor and paying double what the other vendor would have paid and then getting a kickback on the end, etc. I live in a very corrupt city and you would be surprised but everyone has their books in order and it's all legit. They just use the laws and find the loopholes. We took out an additional 10m in loans even though we'd just gotten 80m in sky money. All legal no doubt and I'm sure the reason was sufficient for auditors, but I'm sure the owner of the loan is Robbie earl or associates. Same with other operating costs. All above board yes we did have to pay for that, but we had similar amount of employees so how does 10m increase make sense? Well I'm sure their reason and the song and dance routine were sufficient for auditor, but that doesn't mean people (board members) aren't making out on the other end or that the beneficiaries no matter how convoluted couldn't benefit them. Could be a simple we give you the meat pies and you help out my other business in xyz way. Doesn't show on the books all legal no problems with audit, but that doesn't stop stuff mate. You ever wonder why the mob isn't busted? Good accountants and the like. They know it's laundered, but there's no proof and the books are solid. Edited July 31, 2015 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately it is people like you who kill the debate. At least challenge the article with an intelligent response rather than reverting to insulting the author. It is this type of response that put people off being part of the movement to remove Bill and Co You mean these points haven't been talked about enough already? But yeah, let's see: " The club are no longer in a position where we are living hand to mouth and selling our best players at a fraction of their market value in an effort to stave off the banks. " Woope-doo. So how exactly did the board help in securing the massive TV deal which is behind all this financial improvement? As recently as 2011 the club had to sell Arteta to balance the books. I'm not even going to bother to write about the shite commercial side but to give the board credit for something they had absolutely nothing to do with is stupid or ignorant. The author could have told what exactly the board has done to balance the books except for receiving huge checks from Sky. They have been, in fact, paying huge rates for Vibrac in the mean time. "Evertonians become embarrassed by the boards’ hard negotiating stance as they look to secure a deal that best suits the clubs finances." What the flying f**k?? How about being embarrassed that yet again we are the team that has spent the least amount of money on players? This is not exactly a one-off either, this has pretty much happened every year. The only way the manager have spent more in one window than he brought in by sales is if he had sold players earlier. Like Lukaku, who was financed with money from earlier sales (same happened the summer after Rooney was sold). Finch Farm. Seriously this guy doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Only thanks to LCC stepping in the rent the club pays for FF is reasonable. The amount of money the club was originally going to pay was ridiculously high and FF would have been a massive millstone around the clubs neck long after the current board has left. As for merchandise. The author is just getting ridiculous. Yeah, we don't buy a lot of merchandise. But who's job is it to improve that? Like someone said there was practically no coverage of Everton in Singapore recently. The Chang deal has no effect on brand recognition anywhere, including Thailand. Our shirts are not for sale anywhere, so could the sales pick up? The board is completely happy to let someone else do nothing about this and hiding behind Kitbag's back for their inactivity. Lest we forget, Kenwright and Woods have been the owners for over 15 years now and absolutely nothing has been done to promote Everton around the world. That's plenty of time to improve the club's image. To take Aston Villa as an example is even more ludicrous. What if Kenwright had actually returned Lerner's call? Lerner gave well over 100 million pounds for his managers, including almost 50 million in 2008-09. Imagine what Moyes could have done with that money from 2006 onwards? Aston Villa genuinely tried to break into the top four, O'Neill just isn't nearly as good as Moyes. So the article is another rehash of the same crap we hear all the time from Kenwright apologists. He obviously also conveniently forgets about all the f**k ups the board has done like the King's Dock stadium where we should be playing now and all the wasted money on the Kirkby debacle which was so dodgy I still can't figure out some fans thought was a good idea. Edited July 31, 2015 by Makis markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Good post Makis. It's like some people want to believe Father Christmas still exists after the kids in school tell them they seen mum and dad stumble into their room at 2am dropping the presents. "Errr father Christmas left them downstairs!" Says dad with Santa's mince pie and whiskey in his hand. "Err he doesn't want the mince pie, he's on a diet and errr he's off whiskey" Time to get a grip lads. I'll be interested to hear what Matt has to say about his conversion with someone he knows. But all these articles on that St. domingos site make me very suspicious. Very spinny like the club website after the financials report. You can't polish a turf, and that is what these authors are trying to do. Is someone actually telling me that delloite could expose an issue if under the "operating costs" line the club paid a £3m consultancy fee to a company name that was a vehicle for some people to cream a few million??? After all, an invoice stating "investigate opportunities for stadium move" surely would suffice. Let's face it the club take out a pay dayvloan using vibrac, paying ott interest rates.... Who owns that??? markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I'll jump back in here. I think realistically the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of everyone's opinion. From what I think; BK is doing what he thinks is best for the club, every single day. He doesn't always get it right, but when he gets it wrong it seems to be high profile things like stadium moves. I'm sure he does plenty of things right each day that we don't know about. Robert Earl was brought in to help remove the Gregg family. They wanted control from BK or to be out altogether. They didn't want to work together anymore. Who knows what might have happened if they got control? Might have been in CL, might have been relegated. We'll never know. Robert Earl is the only board member to actually make a money out of the club. Everytime we take out a loan with his company there is interest, lower rates than we would have had from the bank, but interest none the less. He doesn't get a dividend but he does get them interest payments each year. BK did not have to remortgage his house to buy Everton. He borrowed the money from Philip Green. This is no secret. He didn't have the money to hand, borrowed it off his mate. Green may not have a controlling influence over the club, but he certainly has some influence over BK. I'm not insinuating he controls him, or what he does with the club, but he is one of the greatest businessmen the country has ever seen. I want him in our corner should we need him. It's a long time since BK has talked about selling the club, he talks about investment. Not selling out to someone and leaving, someone giving him the money to take the club forward. I honestly believe he thinks he is the best man for the job, but I honestly believe this is stopping buyers from coming on board. If the current shareholders sold their shares at the price they paid, we would sell the club over night, but they are entitled to sell at a higher rate now, when they leave they will make a hefty profit. Not quite a rant, just a list of my observations. I've read people over the years say they prefer how we go about things, work hard and build, no Russian or Arab billionaire buying us titles. It's nice and full of pride, but if Sheik Mansour or Roman Abramovic bought us and we had a few premier league titles in the cabinet, we would all be just as happy. After all, that's how we won in the 80's. Matt, MikeO, Romey 1878 and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147860 markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makis Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Much better than the first part. Although there were a few issues at least that article it was mostly correct. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 http://www.stdomingos.com/?p=147860 that one is better. the profit/loss without player trading is the most harrowing. it's all loss except 2 years. Any CEO/business person would be fired instantly for those results a few years in a row, this has been over a decade and a half and it's considered ok. it's not ok. the thought mentioning TV money should now negate the payday loan is spot on, and i will be monitoring that to see what happens. i am looking forward to parts 3 and 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Where's the tv money Bill? markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Where's the tv money Bill? It's with the Arteta money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 Where's the tv money Bill? "We have outsourced the lawn mowing responsibility to Bob and co. Their expertise in cutting lawn will save on injuries, make the players happier and despite this showing as a further £5m a year outlay will absolutely reap far great rewards" Roberts Elstone 20!6 MikeO, markjazzbassist, Matt and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted August 1, 2015 Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 What worries me is that I see no long term strategy part from buying a stadium. It's clear we just can't afford to do that Kings Dock was the moment we needed to seal not Walton Park dodging knives and guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 The Bills?! Oh crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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