c1982 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 He'll play where Pienaar plays for me. Wide left to link up the play, freedom to step inside. That's how I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 We certainly looked better with him on in the second half. The first half was dire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 (edited) Took a good penalty. Did he hit the volley through to Rom? Didn't see who hit it but looked like him at first sight. Edited July 15, 2015 by StevO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Took a good penalty. Did he hit the volley through to Rom? Didn't see who hit it but looked like him at first sight. Yep. It was him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) All I will say is it's incredible how being at the wrong club at the wrong time can destroy a player, we've seen this with arteta before joining us. United have form for this, their fans are that drunk off their own arrogance and belief that only certain players are good enough for United that they turn into vicious critics who despite making fuck all noise at at 70000+ stadium can easily ensure that their scapegoats can hear them slag them off or boo. Tom cleverley emerging as a player that they hoped he could be - will be a slap in the face for all the "know it all" trolls who have tried to destroy a decent lad. I'm gonna enjoy watching this story unfold. He's taken the first big step which is turning up in a top fitness condition. Edited July 16, 2015 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Took a good penalty. Did he hit the volley through to Rom? Didn't see who hit it but looked like him at first sight. Here it is http://gfycat.com/UncommonFragrantKitty It was magnificent. efc1111 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcopaulo Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 That was an impostor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Wow, wait a minute Haf! You can't call the united fans in here for not rating Cleverley. In the Lukaku thread you were praising their knowledge when they didn't rate Rom on their message boards! Even you can't get away with that one mate. duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Wow, wait a minute Haf! You can't call the united fans in here for not rating Cleverley. In the Lukaku thread you were praising their knowledge when they didn't rate Rom on their message boards! Even you can't get away with that one mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Wow, wait a minute Haf! You can't call the united fans in here for not rating Cleverley. In the Lukaku thread you were praising their knowledge when they didn't rate Rom on their message boards! Even you can't get away with that one mate. As I have stated already steve - there is a big difference between fans critiquing a player on a forum vs fans turning up at a stadium and booing them or taking to twitter to personally troll them to the point that the player closes their account down. I can call the section of united fans who have made cleverleys life a misery and yes, some evertonians need to look at how they treat Barkley and if what I have heard is true Lukaku from some sections of the ground. Its all very well debating on a forum - it is inexcusable to take to twitter to insult a player or turn up and boo them. Anyone remember Jason Lee? Fantasy Football decided to use the TV forum to take the mickey out oif his hair and next thing all fans across the country ripped him to the point he couldn't handle it. The comments regarding Cleverley on Red Cafe can be pretty sensible from those who refuse to be sheep and cast their own thoughts. Some like many on forums tend to just go with the flow of taking the mickey and joining in with the play ground cat calling. examples:- "Can I just ask a quick question guys. When we played 3-5-2 the other night, who did we have? Fletch - Herrera - Mata right? Who did we have tonight? Clev - Herrera - Mata right? "Forgive me if I am mistaken but Cleverley played in the same role as Fletcher and if you're asking the holding/DM to be threatening, you're asking the wrong question... There were also 2x where Herrera knocked the ball out of play trying to pass it to Valencia, but his name is not Cleverley so..." *********************************** "Its funny, if Cleverley was playing as he is currently and didnt have prior experience at United, people would be linking him to a move to us and Liverpool." *********************************** "Really pleased to see him getting his confidence back and hope he has more belief in his own ability the next time he has a rough spell." *********************************** "To get the best from Clev's I've always thought you needed to play a 3 man midfield, and have him arriving into the box as often as possible. He can do the disciplined, donkey work to an extent but he's nothing special in the role, you'd ideally want him going the other way as much as possible. I hope he does well with his career and pushes on, it was dissapointing how much stick he recieved from fans the past few years." ************************************ You could say that I am looking for opinions that mirror my own - which could be a fair point, but I do think thgere is a clear difference between people who think for themselves and those who just follow the general consensus without not really having a clue about football. It usually tends to be people who can "give examples" that attracts my attention - don't get me wrong many on the cafe think that he can be a very good player but struggles when the pressure gets too much. My argument to that will be - "thats understandable considering when Rooney, Carrick, Young, Jones etc have a poor game they dont get the jeers - but TC does" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What if the fans who were booing Cleverley at the stadium were the same fans slating Rom on the forums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 What if the fans who were booing Cleverley at the stadium were the same fans slating Rom on the forums? well now that is a "what if" isn't it Steve - what IF those fans slating Rom had a better understanding of the game and vice versa. All I can firmly establish is that it is clear that:- 1. At the ground Man United fans booed Cleverley 2. They personally attacked him on twitter 3. Cleverley has been widely acknowledged in the game as being a player who has been the victim of a bullying campaign. I think its fair to say that isn't the case for Rom. So whatever your hypothesis is I don not know - all I can say is that from a rumourama perspective a small percentage of the united fans wanted Rom - now compare that to what they do when linked to Rodwell, Barkley, Coleman - the vast majority wanted them. Does that make them right? No - its all about opinions. But if you want my judgement of them as a "vocal" group of fans I think what they did to TC was a disgrace and a fair few of their forum posters agreed that he was treated harshly. Anyway before anyone says why is Lukaku in the Tom Cleverely thread I may like to point to your previous "call out Haf on Rom post" - kinda getting a bit tedious isn't it? so I would like my post to be remembered for one main point - criticising on a forum is fine, booing or posting insults personally on twitter most certainly isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 (edited) well now that is a "what if" isn't it Steve - what IF those fans slating Rom had a better understanding of the game and vice versa. All I can firmly establish is that it is clear that:- 1. At the ground Man United fans booed Cleverley 2. They personally attacked him on twitter 3. Cleverley has been widely acknowledged in the game as being a player who has been the victim of a bullying campaign. I think its fair to say that isn't the case for Rom. So whatever your hypothesis is I don not know - all I can say is that from a rumourama perspective a small percentage of the united fans wanted Rom - now compare that to what they do when linked to Rodwell, Barkley, Coleman - the vast majority wanted them. Does that make them right? No - its all about opinions. But if you want my judgement of them as a "vocal" group of fans I think what they did to TC was a disgrace and a fair few of their forum posters agreed that he was treated harshly. Anyway before anyone says why is Lukaku in the Tom Cleverely thread I may like to point to your previous "call out Haf on Rom post" - kinda getting a bit tedious isn't it? so I would like my post to be remembered for one main point - criticising on a forum is fine, booing or posting insults personally on twitter most certainly isn't. The way TC was treated by the media, as well as the fans was a fucking disgrace. I genuinely felt embarrassed for people when the petition started, it was low and disgusting. It was constant, public insult to the lad. Bad player or not, it was unjust. No one should go to levels of "critique" that put that lad down. Now, I have to hold my hands up because I was this pissed with Anichebe - so much potential but he was a whiny child who didn't deserve to wear our colours. He drove me nuts. Did keeping my thoughts to the pub or a forum make it any better? No. I should've supported him like I've supported every other player, but he drove me nuts and I lost my cool several times with him. He is the only player who has made me so angry I wanted to vent. Not because of his cost, not because of his lack of skills, but because he was an embarrassment on the pitch 9 times out of 10 (I've also heard some very unsavory rumours about his private life, but that's not for me to judge), I think the point is, it's about slating a player without the player having done anything specifically wrong, certainly not wrong enough to merit any abuse, no matter what level. There is a fine line between criticism and abuse. However, the crux of the matter here is the platform. The platform, be it a stadium, twitter or a forum is irrelevant, although I conceed that certain platforms are more dangerous than others. The end result is the same - a player gets way over the top cricitism and it's not on. All players should be treated with respect and supported, no matter how frustrating they can be. At least, until they do something they really deserve stick for. It's very rare that something that bad happens on the pitch. Edited July 16, 2015 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 The way TC was treated by the media, as well as the fans was a fucking disgrace. I genuinely felt embarrassed for people when the petition started, it was low and disgusting. It was constant, public insult to the lad. Bad player or not, it was unjust. No one should go to levels of "critique" that put that lad down. Now, I have to hold my hands up because I was this pissed with Anichebe - so much potential but he was a whiny child who didn't deserve to wear our colours. He drove me nuts. Did keeping my thoughts to the pub or a forum make it any better? No. I should've supported him like I've supported every other player, but he drove me nuts and I lost my cool several times with him. He is the only player who has made me so angry I wanted to vent. Not because of his cost, not because of his lack of skills, but because he was an embarrassment on the pitch 9 times out of 10 (I've also heard some very unsavory rumours about his private life, but that's not for me to judge), I think the point is, it's about slating a player without the player having done anything specifically wrong, certainly not wrong enough to merit any abuse, no matter what level. There is a fine line between criticism and abuse. However, the crux of the matter here is the platform. The platform, be it a stadium, twitter or a forum is irrelevant, although I conceed that certain platforms are more dangerous than others. The end result is the same - a player gets way over the top cricitism and it's not on. All players should be treated with respect and supported, no matter how frustrating they can be. At least, until they do something they really deserve stick for. It's very rare that something that bad happens on the pitch. Vic was an irritant for a few reasons:- clear lack of effort sat on a nice contract and wanted more showed moments of petulence and attitude TC has never done anything other than try very hard for the team. Yes, his confidence disappeared and that made matters worse but he didn't hide. An example I will use is I played in a golf tournament last week and developed the shanks - I mean I literally could not hit the ball straight and it is one of the most horrible feelings you can have in any sport. I was playing with 2 lads and felt that embarrased that I wanted to walk off - I actually hit a fellas golf bag on the other fairway and was inches short of his head.... I didn't walk off because at the end of the day bad moments happen in sport - things dont go your way and yes I can smack a ball like a decent golfer but I needed to learn how to cope in moments of adversity, could I do that in front of thousands of fans - no, imiagine them booing me? horrific! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Vic was an irritant for a few reasons:- clear lack of effort sat on a nice contract and wanted more showed moments of petulence and attitude TC has never done anything other than try very hard for the team. Yes, his confidence disappeared and that made matters worse but he didn't hide. An example I will use is I played in a golf tournament last week and developed the shanks - I mean I literally could not hit the ball straight and it is one of the most horrible feelings you can have in any sport. I was playing with 2 lads and felt that embarrased that I wanted to walk off - I actually hit a fellas golf bag on the other fairway and was inches short of his head.... I didn't walk off because at the end of the day bad moments happen in sport - things dont go your way and yes I can smack a ball like a decent golfer but I needed to learn how to cope in moments of adversity, could I do that in front of thousands of fans - no, imiagine them booing me? horrific! My point was more that, giving grief in a forum or in a stadium is irrelevant. We should get behind our players rather them pick them apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 My point was more that, giving grief in a forum or in a stadium is irrelevant. We should get behind our players rather them pick them apart. There's a world of difference between vocally slating a player and discussing/critiquing a player on forum. If a player wants to go on a forum to see what people "think" of him, then that is their choice - they are "choosing" to see what people think. If they don't want to see potential negative stuff - then dont go on. If fans decide to turn up to boo a player - that is unfair, the player does not have a choice, he is on the pitch wearing the shirt trying to do his job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 There's a world of difference between vocally slating a player and discussing/critiquing a player on forum. If a player wants to go on a forum to see what people "think" of him, then that is their choice - they are "choosing" to see what people think. If they don't want to see potential negative stuff - then dont go on. If fans decide to turn up to boo a player - that is unfair, the player does not have a choice, he is on the pitch wearing the shirt trying to do his job. Really? Slagging people off behind closed doors is better than in a stadium? Same message, different ways of communicating it. Thinking and voicing frustrations is one thing, relentless critique is the same anywhere. It's just in a forum, the players aren't feeling it directly. At least, we're assuming they're not reading TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted July 16, 2015 Report Share Posted July 16, 2015 Really? Slagging people off behind closed doors is better than in a stadium? Same message, different ways of communicating it. Thinking and voicing frustrations is one thing, relentless critique is the same anywhere. It's just in a forum, the players aren't feeling it directly. At least, we're assuming they're not reading TT So what you are effectively saying is that we shouldn't criticise any players on this forum? Any player that decides to go on a forum to read opinions wants their head testing unless they are ridiculously thick skinned. They have a choice not to review opinions and therefore live in "peace" and ignorance. Unless we allow them to wear ear plugs verbal criticism is unavoidable and therefore needs to be minimised unless of course booing them improves performance. reading a fourm is a choice, playing in front of fans is their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 17, 2015 Report Share Posted July 17, 2015 http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2015/07/17/boss-buoyed-by-cleverley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 http://www.squawka.com/news/cleverley-waited-in-lay-by-for-three-hours-last-summer-hoping-for-everton-move/422600 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/jones-cleverley-could-play-as-the-number-10/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 http://www.theevertonforum.co.uk/jones-cleverley-could-play-as-the-number-10/ Setting us up early for us not signing a real number 10. This season is going to be amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacs Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 It doesn't really matter that we're not signing new players. He doesn't use the ones we have properly. I haven't been this pessimistic about a season since before Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Setting us up early for us not signing a real number 10. This season is going to be amazing. Does sound like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Fuck off. Seriously just fuck right off Everton. We're absolutely shit aren't we. At no other club would you hear bollocks like that. Tom Cleverley the answer to all our creativity. I feel like weeping I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 More of a worry for me was "he can play on the left, on the right". Please play him centrally or not at all. By all means try him in number 10. He may surprise us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 How many times does it need to be said? Don't believe a word that's said during the transfer window. It's all about positioning and negotiating. I despair sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 How many times does it need to be said? Don't believe a word that's said during the transfer window. It's all about positioning and negotiating. I despair sometimes! I'll quote this first game of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I'll quote this first game of the season. Last game of the season is when it matters . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Last game of the season is when it matters . Not when I'm talking about signing a number 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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