duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Does that mean I'm no longer the only one one putting the majority of the blame on him? (Still not suggesting Stones is blameless) I've not had the benefit of seeing it on TV yet but at the time I definitely put the blame at Howard's doorstep and judging by the abuse he was getting from the crowd I I think it's fair to say that was the general consensus of the Gwladys Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 The club wasv lazy sticking with him. He was an average prem keeper, and we never actively searched for someone better. Imagine if we had a keeper like Martyn or Southall in goal this season. Howard, has single handidly cost us 3/4 games. Potentially an additional 8 points? Arguable but possible based on performances and game outcomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Does that mean I'm no longer the only one one putting the majority of the blame on him? (Still not suggesting Stones is blameless) I put the majority of the blame on him as well. Said ayew was the only one in the box and only one anywhere near that ball. He should have come out sooner and just grabbed the ball. No other Swansea players in sight because they figured it was going to be a kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I've not had the benefit of seeing it on TV yet but at the time I definitely put the blame at Howard's doorstep and judging by the abuse he was getting from the crowd I I think it's fair to say that was the general consensus of the Gwladys Street The passback was on easier earlier, stones being stones never took the option till it was the only option. Ayew knew and anticipated. People don't want to blame stones. Simple as that. A good keeper would have dealt with it, but stones made the situation. He did something similar later. Instead of putting his foot through it he passed to a player and put him in trouble. Fuckin scandalous. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Blame is 50/50 for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 The passback was on easier earlier, stones being stones never took the option till it was the only option. Ayew knew and anticipated. People don't want to blame stones. Simple as that. A good keeper would have dealt with it, but stones made the situation. He did something similar later. Instead of putting his foot through it he passed to a player and put him in trouble. Fuckin scandalous. I don't think anybody is absolving Stones of any blame, he should never have put the keeper in that situation, but the bottom line is that Howard had to do better Romey 1878, Matt and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 The passback was on easier earlier, stones being stones never took the option till it was the only option. Ayew knew and anticipated. People don't want to blame stones. Simple as that. A good keeper would have dealt with it, but stones made the situation. He did something similar later. Instead of putting his foot through it he passed to a player and put him in trouble. Fuckin scandalous. I'm more than happy to blame him if I think it's his fault; in this instance I don't think it was, though he wasn't blameless as I've already said. I'm no "bandwagon jumper" or "favourite can do no wrong" merchant, just call it as I see it. Fact is, as I've said before, Howard was unaccountably backing away from Stones when the pass was played (admittedly Stones should have dealt with it earlier) thereby giving Ayew more space to intercept and meaning Tim had to change his momentum to get there. Had he anticipated the pass he'd have got to the ball ahead of Ayew; reports are saying that Stones' pass was "underhit" but it wouldn't have been if Howard had stood his ground or moved forward. That's how I saw it and no amount of discussion will change my mind, my lad agrees with me for what it's worth . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 I don't think anybody is absolving Stones of any blame, he should never have put the keeper in that situation, but the bottom line is that Howard had to do better No sorry but the bottom line is if Stones cleared his lines there WOULDN'T be a situation. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 It was an absolute hospital ball. I think this is a case of imagine the "new boy" Mori played that back pass Sideliner and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted January 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 It was an absolute hospital ball. I think this is a case of imagine the "new boy" Mori played that back pass My opinion would be exactly the same. Not a fan boy for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Fan boys would be the Jags camp. His error was just as bad as stone's and Howard's combined, but didn't get even half as mush stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 It was an absolute hospital ball. I think this is a case of imagine the "new boy" Mori played that back pass Why would that be any different ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 For me he allowed his arrogance to over rule his pride and grace. Rather than hold his hands up and say "you know what, that's not good enough" he has decided to quote history. A very defensive approach which placed his ego above that of the team. I was completely full of admiration for Gary Neville and the way he quickly realised that his level was not good enough after 1 or 2 games of finding his legs had gone. No bitching, no fishing for compliments, just "that's it folks". Tim will be remembered for the wrong reasons, unfortunately. He was a solid keeper for us but the past 18 months have been torrid. Fully agree with all of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Because some would have strung him for it....!used it against him in later arguments etc. there is absolutely no arguments for me.Stones is mainly to blame for playing such a poor hospital ball. Edited January 24, 2016 by MC11 dlblue and MC11 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 Howard, has single handidly cost us 3/4 games. Potentially an additional 8 points? Arguable but possible based on performances and game outcomes. I think you are being incredibly generous there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) I think you are being incredibly generous thereI had to be because I couldn't remember all the details. There were far too many and should someone have asked me for examples of them all, I'd be scuppered But you're right. It's possibly more. Edited January 24, 2016 by Lowensda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 24, 2016 Report Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) I know this is naughty, from GOT. https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/attachments/image-png.17395/ https://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/attachments/image-png.17396/ Howard doesn't move toward the ball at all. During the entire length of the pass back. More I see it, the more I look at Tim as the one most at fault. If he'd had dived at it, with his hand, he may have been able to get a touch on the ball or at worst, convinced the ref he covered the ball before the player makes contact. Either way, the fact he went to kick it SOO late, shows how inept he is at decision making. Edited January 24, 2016 by Lowensda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeQuince Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) I was just as confused as Tim looked when Stones stood there for what seemed like a year and then played that pass towards him. Tim should have reacted faster, yes. That situation should have never happened in the first place, though. There were several things Stones could have done, and he could have done them all faster than what he eventually did. Stones should take the blame for forcing the situation that transpired. Tim should take blame for not dealing with it immediately. Our biggest problem was on display in that moment though: nobody knows what their responsibilities are. Nobody is grilling them with contingency plans of any sort. We don't even know how to defend as a unit. When strange situations arise, we either get saved by a miraculous stroke of luck/immense individual effort or we fall apart in the most sublimely inexplicable way. So, 33.3% Tim, 33.3% Stones, 33.3% coaching and 0.1% Haf, just because I like to see him get riled up. Edited January 25, 2016 by JoeQuince Romey 1878, nyblue23 and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/tim-howard-martinez-insists-everton-10782216 PLEASE say it ain't so.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 For me it would have been more interesting if it would have happened to Robles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 For me it would have been more interesting if it would have happened to Robles. I would like to think that Robles would have dealt with it otherwise we desperately need to find 2 new keepers in the summer Lowensda and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I would like to think that Robles would have dealt with it otherwise we desperately need to find 2 new keepers in the summer I think we need to do that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Stones should never have been in the situation where he needed to pass it back to Howard. It was poncing about instead of clearing it upfield that caused the problem. Stones fault 100%. Stones seems to think that 'hoofing it' is beneath him. There are times (and this was one) where you have to hoof it. efc1111 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 I would like to think that Robles would have dealt with it otherwise we desperately need to find 2 new keepers in the summer Id like to think Robles would have dealt with it and then walked over stones and said something like:- "Oi you arrogant prick, stop putting your team mates in shit because you are giving them a hot potato to deal with. We all know you are trying to prove how amazingly composed you are but to be honest you are starting to look like a cocky prick. You may get you big move, till then get a grip and stop giving the fans daggers" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Id like to think Robles would have dealt with it and then walked over stones and said something like:- "Oi you arrogant prick, stop putting your team mates in shit because you are giving them a hot potato to deal with. We all know you are trying to prove how amazingly composed you are but to be honest you are starting to look like a cocky prick. You may get you big move, till then get a grip and stop giving the fans daggers" Good job John has been learning Spanish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethinO Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7GUUwqj2wU&sns=tw Does not make good viewing. Some are a bit harsh but they're mostly all his fault. What was he doing at Arsenal?? Edited January 25, 2016 by Geth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Both his penalty challenges in above video were so blatantly late that it almost looks intentional - retarded reaction time if ever i have seen it - costing us dearly everytime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Stones should never have been in the situation where he needed to pass it back to Howard. It was poncing about instead of clearing it upfield that caused the problem. Stones fault 100%. Stones seems to think that 'hoofing it' is beneath him. There are times (and this was one) where you have to hoof it. Whilst I agree with what you are getting it I am just not having it that Howard was totally blameless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 Watching that you can really see how finished the guy is. markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gethinO Posted January 25, 2016 Report Share Posted January 25, 2016 You can also see how nervous he is on crosses. Rooney's goal was so simple as well. Dived before he even made contact with the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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