duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I don't have a problem with what he has said, in fact after three years of listening to the bullshit that came out of Martinez's mouth , I find Koeman's honesty quite refreshing If Lukaku keeps his form going all season he will have earned his place at the top table. People saying it sends out the wrong message are wide of the mark for me What message would it send out to young players if they knew no matter how well they played for us then they would never get a chance to reach the top? If players know Everton will stop them furthering their careers then they won't join the club in the first place It's evolution and the only way to keep top players is by becoming a top club Edited November 9, 2016 by duncanmckenzieismagic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Good message that Play for Everton, even if they do shit you can use them as a stepping stone. What happened to players taking responsibility and accepting that part of the team doing so bad is down to them? Where are the ones that take pride and want to stay until they help their team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Good message that Play for Everton, even if they do shit you can use them as a stepping stone. What happened to players taking responsibility and accepting that part of the team doing so bad is down to them? Where are the ones that take pride and want to stay until they help their team? I think your missing the point , if the failings of the team are down to them then they won't get the chance to make the step up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Dunc.... you had a blow out when we went out of the league cup because you want to win a trophy but you are happy to have our mega expensive manager who is likely to be handed more millions to spend - basically tell the media that Everton are not big enough to keep a player no one made a bid for after a shite European championships. Refreshing honesty is coming out and telling the press that the team were shit and gutless when we have been shit and gutless. Devaluing Everton is something dick heads like Roy Keane to try and do.... not the manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I don't have a problem with what he has said, in fact after three years of listening to the bullshit that came out of Martinez's mouth , I find Koeman's honesty quite refreshing If Lukaku keeps his form going all season he will have earned his place at the top table. People saying it sends out the wrong message are wide of the mark for me What message would it send out to young players if they knew no matter how well they played for us then they would never get a chance to reach the top? If players know Everton will stop them furthering their careers then they won't join the club in the first place It's evolution and the only way to keep top players is by becoming a top club Agreed. Until we are a top club we are a stepping stone. Might as well recognize that now instead of acting like Everton is the biggest club in the world and Ronaldo is signing with us next week. Koeman job is to get us to CL and steady the ship. The next manager will be to keep us there and win trophies. They can be the one to demand players stay and declare us big stuff and top of the world. We ain't there yet plain and simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Agreed. Until we are a top club we are a stepping stone. Might as well recognize that now instead of acting like Everton is the biggest club in the world and Ronaldo is signing with us next week. Koeman job is to get us to CL and steady the ship. The next manager will be to keep us there and win trophies. They can be the one to demand players stay and declare us big stuff and top of the world. We ain't there yet plain and simple Yeah.... I'm sure all the transfer target footballers out there are sold on the Everton project.... Koeman's honesty will win them over and we will get top 4 in no time. "Ah yes.... you say Arsenal matched our bid for you? Ah well... best go to them then.... they are bigger... they play champions league" Twice in 2 days Everton have had the piss taken out of them in the press.... 1. Roy Keane 2. Our own manager. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 He should be telling them the same as what Chelsea and City were when they got money: stick around and be part of making us champions. MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) He should be telling them the same as what Chelsea and City were when they got money: stick around and be part of making us champions.EXACTLY. how the fuck are we supposed to become a top side if the manager has an ethos akin to that of West Ham 15 years ago???? Oh hello michael Carrick.... you can play for man united, hello joe cole you can play for Chelsea, oh hello rio ferdinand you too can play for man united.... ah jermaine defoe... spurs would be good for you. Anyone else? Ah Glenn johnson... fancy going to Chelsea and winning a league title or 2? Frank Lampard- how about you? Some people on here need to give their heads a wobble. Personally I'm not arsed about keeping Lukaku - that's not the point. The point is our manager thinks we aren't big enough for him. Ironically koeman is on similar wages to the Barcelona manager... fuckin joke. 8th highest paid manager in the world. Sackable offence. Edited November 9, 2016 by Hafnia MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yeah.... I'm sure all the transfer target footballers out there are sold on the Everton project.... Koeman's honesty will win them over and we will get top 4 in no time. "Ah yes.... you say Arsenal matched our bid for you? Ah well... best go to them then.... they are bigger... they play champions league" Twice in 2 days Everton have had the piss taken out of them in the press.... 1. Roy Keane 2. Our own manager. Exactly which is why we are having to throw stupid money at players. 30 for bolasie, 50 for kouilliby offered. They'd never come here otherwise until we get CL. Look how united gets players now that they don't have CL, same exact thing they have to throw more money than the competitor to land a target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Dunc.... you had a blow out when we went out of the league cup because you want to win a trophy but you are happy to have our mega expensive manager who is likely to be handed more millions to spend - basically tell the media that Everton are not big enough to keep a player no one made a bid for after a shite European championships. Refreshing honesty is coming out and telling the press that the team were shit and gutless when we have been shit and gutless. Devaluing Everton is something dick heads like Roy Keane to try and do.... not the manager. Not sure how the two are linked but i live in the real world and at this moment in time we are not big enough to be able to keep hold of players like Stones and Lukaku Do I like it ? No not at all but that doesn't mean I'm going to get offended when people speak the truth I wasn't offended when Lescott left nor was I offended when Arteta or Stones left and they all left for the same reason This is no different If Koeman wants to be manager of Barcelona or Lukaku wants to play for Bayern Munich then they first have to be successful at Everton and so I'm fine with that It's a mutually beneficial agreement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Yes, but you don't go round advertising the fact. It shows lack of respect for the club and its supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Not sure how the two are linked but i live in the real world and at this moment in time we are not big enough to be able to keep hold of players like Stones and Lukaku Do I like it ? No not at all but that doesn't mean I'm going to get offended when people speak the truth I wasn't offended when Lescott left nor was I offended when Arteta or Stones left and they all left for the same reason This is no different If Koeman wants to be manager of Barcelona or Lukaku wants to play for Bayern Munich then they first have to be successful at Everton and so I'm fine with that It's a mutually beneficial agreement Then please explain to me how such admirable honesty and ambition to fuck off to other clubs before seeing a contract out is going to elevate us to be the club that we aspire to be? Is paying a manager £6m a year not enough for him to maybe "buy in" to a project that has seen our billionaire majority shareholder wipe of £80m of debt.... look at a new stadium.... bid daft money for players when wanted? Ah maybe koeman enjoyed being fucked off for Arsenal and spurs by 2 players that much that he likes to remind any other potential signings just how meagre we actually are. Maybe we should just continue to pay daft wages and accept that players can go to the next club that whistles whenever they choose to do so. Imagine the piss taking on here if klopp started doing the shit koeman pulled today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Exactly which is why we are having to throw stupid money at players. 30 for bolasie, 50 for kouilliby offered. They'd never come here otherwise until we get CL. Look how united gets players now that they don't have CL, same exact thing they have to throw more money than the competitor to land a target. We pay the transfer fee to the selling clubs - not the players. The 30m for bolassie went to palace.... he's on £60k a week just like jags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Told you all the other day he is not the man for this club got lambasted for it what a difference a day makes Dunc get with the program mate and stop trying to justify the unjustifiable the man is a liability and know good for the future of this club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Then please explain to me how such admirable honesty and ambition to fuck off to other clubs before seeing a contract out is going to elevate us to be the club that we aspire to be? Is paying a manager £6m a year not enough for him to maybe "buy in" to a project that has seen our billionaire majority shareholder wipe of £80m of debt.... look at a new stadium.... bid daft money for players when wanted? Ah maybe koeman enjoyed being fucked off for Arsenal and spurs by 2 players that much that he likes to remind any other potential signings just how meagre we actually are. Maybe we should just continue to pay daft wages and accept that players can go to the next club that whistles whenever they choose to do so. Imagine the piss taking on here if klopp started doing the shit koeman pulled today. What are you waffling on about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 What are you waffling on about now? Read back what you wrote ... how being honest and leaving clubs as soon as someone supposedly bigger comes along is fine. Yet you have issues with not winning trophies due to the manager not having ambition..... contradiction. Furthermore explain how we are supposed to get into a position to be big enough to retain the best players if you say it's fine to sell them... again a false economy. Doesn't work. What does work is the board, manager and players buy into a project. Not a couple of years of auditioning for a move. When the manager doesn't show such commitment then we are screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I am 100 percent with Haf on this one. Koeman views Everton as a small team, a stepping stone, even while drawing a salary that implies we're a very big team. Even if he thinks this way, he's a fool to say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I think your missing the point , if the failings of the team are down to them then they won't get the chance to make the step up No disrespect, but I'm not missing the point friend, you are.Lukaku is showing this, along with Stones and various others before him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Read back what you wrote ... how being honest and leaving clubs as soon as someone supposedly bigger comes along is fine. Yet you have issues with not winning trophies due to the manager not having ambition..... contradiction. Furthermore explain how we are supposed to get into a position to be big enough to retain the best players if you say it's fine to sell them... again a false economy. Doesn't work. What does work is the board, manager and players buy into a project. Not a couple of years of auditioning for a move. When the manager doesn't show such commitment then we are screwed. I did not say it was fine to leave as soon as someone bigger comes along though did I ? I was agreeing with Koeman that Lukaku has the potential to go on and play for one of the top clubs I said he would need to prove himself at Everton first if he was ever going to get the chance and that if he did that he would have earned the right to play for a bigger team That's hardly the same as saying he should jump ship at the first opportunity is it? If we sell Lukaku it will be for a huge profit which enables us to reinvest it in the side to make the team better, it's not rocket science You don't rate Lukaku so I'm surprised that you are struggling to grasp that concept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I am 100 percent with Haf on this one. Koeman views Everton as a small team, a stepping stone, even while drawing a salary that implies we're a very big team. Even if he thinks this way, he's a fool to say it. When has Koeman ever said Everton are a small team ? He views the likes of Barcelona as a bigger club , they are so get over it That does not mean he thinks Everton are a small club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Your job as the manager of any club is to promote the the club you are at as the best team you can play for whether that is Chester,Everton or Barcelona,what has done is the same as a car salesman saying don't buy this Fiat of me go down the road and buy a Ford of him there much better, the Fiat garage will struggle the Ford garage would prosper and the salesman can say not my problem I was only telling the truth. That is know way to run a business to come out with the comments he did is running your own business down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I did not say it was fine to leave as soon as someone bigger comes along though did I ? I was agreeing with Koeman that Lukaku has the potential to go on and play for one of the top clubs I said he would need to prove himself at Everton first if he was ever going to get the chance and that if he did that he would have earned the right to play for a bigger team That's hardly the same as saying he should jump ship at the first opportunity is it? If we sell Lukaku it will be for a huge profit which enables us to reinvest it in the side to make the team better, it's not rocket science You don't rate Lukaku so I'm surprised that you are struggling to grasp that concept I'm not struggling to grasp anything. 1. Lukaku and my opinion of him is irrelevant.... this is about the manager stating that if Lukaku stays at Everton he will be somewhat of a failure in his career. Absolute bollocks. 2. If Koeman thinks that Lukaku needs to leave to progress his career then he isn't saying much about what he thinks he can do with us. In which case resign from your £6m a year job if you think we are living in a pipe dream Ron. As Mike alluded.... it's all very pen knives to gunfights bullshit. If Koeman isn't careful he will find himself languishing at the bottom with sunderland very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 The problem we have got with Koeman is he truly believes he is bigger and better than this club and in his heart he doesn't really want to be here and he is struggling to hide that fact through his actions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I can't really get pissed off about this when we played on Koeman thinking this way to get him here - we're bigger than Southampton, come here. To us there is nothing bigger than Everton Football Club, but we're drunk on love for Everton and in our sober moments we know we're nowhere near that. The likes of Koeman, Lukaku, Stones, and countless others in the past and in the future have and will use us to go on to better things, but in the meantime if they can help us climb closer to those bigger clubs so that we lose less and less players to the bigger clubs while furthering their own careers then I'm alright with that. They won't get to further their own careers if they don't do the business for us beforehand, improving us. As much as it pains me to say it Lukaku is better than us right now in my opinion, Koeman hasn't proven he is yet. Maybe he shouldn't have said it, and I can understand why people are annoyed by it, but I'm not going to bleat about it myself after saying I appreciate his honesty. I still do. Lowensda, Matt, Sibdane and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Surely his 6M a year is not to say what he believes if what he believes could cast any negativity I for one want him to be shouting from the rooftops this is the place to be come and join me where going places and to players already here that you want to stay sell it to them let know what the vision is that there's a massive future here cause how do expect players to come here and believe it's a great move for your career if you don't believe it yourself. It would be interesting to find out why the players he targeted never actually signed we've been told by the money man it wasn't for lack of funds I believe they would say that it wasn't money but other managers sold them selves and club to them and made them feel there is a big future here which Koeman can't because he doesn't believe it him self he has very little passion for this club it shows in his demeanour week in week out now it's coming through in his statements I can't think of any other manager who has said anything as negative about a club they are currently managing Hafnia and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 I can't really get pissed off about this when we played on Koeman thinking this way to get him here - we're bigger than Southampton, come here. To us there is nothing bigger than Everton Football Club, but we're drunk on love for Everton and in our sober moments we know we're nowhere near that. The likes of Koeman, Lukaku, Stones, and countless others in the past and in the future have and will use us to go on to better things, but in the meantime if they can help us climb closer to those bigger clubs so that we lose less and less players to the bigger clubs while furthering their own careers then I'm alright with that. They won't get to further their own careers if they don't do the business for us beforehand, improving us. As much as it pains me to say it Lukaku is better than us right now in my opinion, Koeman hasn't proven he is yet. Maybe he shouldn't have said it, and I can understand why people are annoyed by it, but I'm not going to bleat about it myself after saying I appreciate his honesty. I still do. again Romey - in this day and age the media pick up on anything and magnify it 10 fold. "Lukaku can not fulfil his potential at Everton - he could play for Barcelona" - Daily Mail "Everton boss Ronald Koeman says striker should leave" - BBC "Ronald Koeman tells Romelu Luaku to leave Everton" - Daily Express there's a combined 30m views right there telling people that Everton are small fry. Absolute marketing disaster - honesty? complete and utter stupidity. One minute we have people on here saying we need to make a statement of intent and having a meltdown when we don't sign sissoko for £30m - and the next minute people are saying its ok for Koeman to come out with this nonsense? If we were floated on the stockmarket - Koeman would have wiped millions off the value of the club yesterday. No great football side was ever built by a manager saying that his club wasn't big enough for a certain footballer. Look at that lot across the park - they are building a "brand".... what have they won of value in recent years? carling cup and that's about it - nothing that makes them a super power. Is Klopp coming out and saying "Coutinho could play for Barcelona" - no chance. The fact that he probably will go on to play for them is irrelevant - for the time being he is trying to assemble a team capable of challenging and guess what? he is doing that. For the life of me I really struggle to understand how people think this is "ok". If the truth is refreshing - go and tell your bosses in work what you really think of them - warts and all. Do let me know how you get on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 again Romey - in this day and age the media pick up on anything and magnify it 10 fold. "Lukaku can not fulfil his potential at Everton - he could play for Barcelona" - Daily Mail "Everton boss Ronald Koeman says striker should leave" - BBC "Ronald Koeman tells Romelu Luaku to leave Everton" - Daily Express there's a combined 30m views right there telling people that Everton are small fry. Absolute marketing disaster - honesty? complete and utter stupidity. One minute we have people on here saying we need to make a statement of intent and having a meltdown when we don't sign sissoko for £30m - and the next minute people are saying its ok for Koeman to come out with this nonsense? If we were floated on the stockmarket - Koeman would have wiped millions off the value of the club yesterday. No great football side was ever built by a manager saying that his club wasn't big enough for a certain footballer. Look at that lot across the park - they are building a "brand".... what have they won of value in recent years? carling cup and that's about it - nothing that makes them a super power. Is Klopp coming out and saying "Coutinho could play for Barcelona" - no chance. The fact that he probably will go on to play for them is irrelevant - for the time being he is trying to assemble a team capable of challenging and guess what? he is doing that. For the life of me I really struggle to understand how people think this is "ok". If the truth is refreshing - go and tell your bosses in work what you really think of them - warts and all. Do let me know how you get on. That is only applicable if those on here who are saying what Koeman has said was ok are the same ones who were pissed about not signing Sissoko for £30m and as far as I can remember Dunc isn't one them, he was one who said we shouldn't spend money for the sake of it, and I was horrified by the thought of getting Sissoko. I haven't actually said it's ok anyway, I even said I can understand why people aren't happy about it and maybe he shouldn't have said it. My post was only saying I personally am not annoyed about what he said because I can't commend and appreciate his honesty in certain things (Niasse for example) and then spit feathers when he's honest about other things. You're either honest and a straight-talker or you're not, he is and I (and others) will have to take the rough and smooth of that. duncanmckenzieismagic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 it all depends on what people deem as acceptable. I honestly don't think he is bought into the club - and that will come across to the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 He hasn't been brought in to be straight talking he's been paid to make the team better and shouldn't be saying anything publicly that could be detrimental to the club whether it's his personal opinion or not it's not helpful to the team so it doesn't need to be said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jofanon Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 again Romey - in this day and age the media pick up on anything and magnify it 10 fold. "Lukaku can not fulfil his potential at Everton - he could play for Barcelona" - Daily Mail "Everton boss Ronald Koeman says striker should leave" - BBC "Ronald Koeman tells Romelu Luaku to leave Everton" - Daily Express there's a combined 30m views right there telling people that Everton are small fry. Absolute marketing disaster - honesty? complete and utter stupidity. One minute we have people on here saying we need to make a statement of intent and having a meltdown when we don't sign sissoko for £30m - and the next minute people are saying its ok for Koeman to come out with this nonsense? If we were floated on the stockmarket - Koeman would have wiped millions off the value of the club yesterday. No great football side was ever built by a manager saying that his club wasn't big enough for a certain footballer. Look at that lot across the park - they are building a "brand".... what have they won of value in recent years? carling cup and that's about it - nothing that makes them a super power. Is Klopp coming out and saying "Coutinho could play for Barcelona" - no chance. The fact that he probably will go on to play for them is irrelevant - for the time being he is trying to assemble a team capable of challenging and guess what? he is doing that. For the life of me I really struggle to understand how people think this is "ok". If the truth is refreshing - go and tell your bosses in work what you really think of them - warts and all. Do let me know how you get on. He's totally pissed me off. Shows massively he's not got the ambition. Turn us into Barcelona Koeman then he won't want to leave. Hafnia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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