dlblue Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 I dont see the issue with Koemans comments tbh. Its obvious he is only here for 4 years or so but arent all managers these days. He stated Lukaku should be playing for top top club like Barcelona, why not? Surely that is every top players goal in their career! Hopefully Moshiri's aim is to get us competing for the league again but look how long it took Many City to get where they are and with more money than us and befor the TV money came into play. Koeman is here to steady the ship and get us back on track, in my eyes that will take 3/4 years and if he acheives what we want him to then bigger clubs will come calling but he has to do a good job here first. Regarding Lukaku i cant see him staying another season and i think Koeman knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted November 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Does he like opal fruits though. These are imprtant factors we need to know. Romey 1878 and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 (edited) I dont see the issue with Koemans comments tbh. Its obvious he is only here for 4 years or so but arent all managers these days. He stated Lukaku should be playing for top top club like Barcelona, why not? Surely that is every top players goal in their career! Hopefully Moshiri's aim is to get us competing for the league again but look how long it took Many City to get where they are and with more money than us and befor the TV money came into play. Koeman is here to steady the ship and get us back on track, in my eyes that will take 3/4 years and if he acheives what we want him to then bigger clubs will come calling but he has to do a good job here first. Regarding Lukaku i cant see him staying another season and i think Koeman knows that. Aside from the fact that Lukaku is miles away from Barca quality - we need to bring players into the club who can take us to the next level - how can you sell the "project" to them if you are saying one of our players is too big for us? what will Carlsberg's next advertisement slogan be? "Probably not as good as Peroni?" - no not at all. Carlsberg is an awful drink but will always sell because people who don't know lager buy it in massive amounts for house parties because they heard "probably the best lager in the world"...... the fact that there is always cans of the stuff left over means nothing. Man City made the strides to the level they are at by somehow convincing the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero to sign for them - watershed signings where the project was sold to them. Up till that stage they were churning through players like Elano, santa cruz, Jo. Toure is now surplus to requirements after the brand has outgrown him. Honesty when it muddies perception and branding is a big no. I'm fine with him saying Liverpool can win the league - that doesn't impact "Everton" - and is actually quite accurate. It can also put big pressure on that lot as we have seen in previous years, Managers don't like their teams being spoken of as favourites, Edited November 16, 2016 by Hafnia Chach and MikeO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted November 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Aside from the fact that Lukaku is miles away from Barca quality - we need to bring players into the club who can take us to the next level - how can you sell the "project" to them if you are saying one of our players is too big for us? what will Carlsberg's next advertisement slogan be? "Probably not as good as Peroni?" - no not at all. Carlsberg is an awful drink but will always sell because people who don't know lager buy it in massive amounts for house parties because they heard "probably the best lager in the world"...... the fact that there is always cans of the stuff left over means nothing. Man City made the strides to the level they are at by somehow convincing the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero to sign for them - watershed signings where the project was sold to them. Up till that stage they were churning through players like Elano, santa cruz, Jo. Toure is now surplus to requirements after the brand has outgrown him. Honesty when it muddies perception and branding is a big no. I'm fine with him saying Liverpool can win the league - that doesn't impact "Everton" - and is actually quite accurate. It can also put big pressure on that lot as we have seen in previous years, Managers don't like their teams being spoken of as favourites, Excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Excellent post. Cheers - I thought so too if I'm honest seriously though.... do our new managers look at the traits of the previous managers and think "I'll be the complete opposite" in order to win favour. Martinez:- "hmmmm Moyes was too pragmatic - lets just throw caution to the wind and play football EVERYWHERE.... no patronising penknives to gunfights - we are phenomenal" Koeman:- "none of this patronising phenomenal and "sin miedo" - EVERTON are lucky to have players like Lukaku and the fans need to know that despite me earning millions they better get used to patronising honesty. The one consistent theme here? "PATRONISED" - us patrons of Everton F.C are being Patronised by mega paid managers..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 I dont see the issue with Koemans comments tbh. Its obvious he is only here for 4 years or so but arent all managers these days. He stated Lukaku should be playing for top top club like Barcelona, why not? Surely that is every top players goal in their career! Hopefully Moshiri's aim is to get us competing for the league again but look how long it took Many City to get where they are and with more money than us and befor the TV money came into play. Koeman is here to steady the ship and get us back on track, in my eyes that will take 3/4 years and if he acheives what we want him to then bigger clubs will come calling but he has to do a good job here first. Regarding Lukaku i cant see him staying another season and i think Koeman knows that. It's one thing to boast that Lukaku will one day be good enough to play for Barcelona. It's quite another to suggest that, if he remains at Everton, he will have failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Aside from the fact that Lukaku is miles away from Barca quality - we need to bring players into the club who can take us to the next level - how can you sell the "project" to them if you are saying one of our players is too big for us? what will Carlsberg's next advertisement slogan be? "Probably not as good as Peroni?" - no not at all. Carlsberg is an awful drink but will always sell because people who don't know lager buy it in massive amounts for house parties because they heard "probably the best lager in the world"...... the fact that there is always cans of the stuff left over means nothing. Man City made the strides to the level they are at by somehow convincing the likes of Kompany, Toure, Aguero to sign for them - watershed signings where the project was sold to them. Up till that stage they were churning through players like Elano, santa cruz, Jo. Toure is now surplus to requirements after the brand has outgrown him. Honesty when it muddies perception and branding is a big no. I'm fine with him saying Liverpool can win the league - that doesn't impact "Everton" - and is actually quite accurate. It can also put big pressure on that lot as we have seen in previous years, Managers don't like their teams being spoken of as favourites, Agree completely, specially about Carlsberg....dishwater (though Export isn't too bad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Liverpool sold Saurez because he was too good for them.He wanted to win things and earn more money etc. The best player at Everton at the moment is Lukaku, on his day he's unplayable and this is in front of a pretty average Everton team.It's a fact, and hardly the best kept secret in the premier league.The one player Swansea would like to be out for Saturday is Lukaku. Koeman Knows from his Southampton days it's hard to keep your best players if they don't want to stay, if Lukaku wants away Koemans got to plan for life without him.If he can keep him till the summer we have a chance at top 8, without him and no decent replacement, mid-table would be more likely. Lukaku has already done enough to sell himself, Koeman, if he wants a big move has got a hell of a lot to do at Everton first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Agree completely, specially about Carlsberg....dishwater (though Export isn't too bad). Export is an exceptional drink to be fair. It's the normal carlsberg..... absolutely vile stuff. The worst part about going for a curry a few years back was that it was the only draft lager you could get. I'm surprised it's still going. When lager like carling premier has disappeared. Now that was a pint.... caffreys too. Loved that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 A piece on Mr Koeman now on BBC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 A piece on Mr Koeman now on BBC 2 Needs to work on his beer belly. And left Southampton because their offer wasn't good enough, not because he wanted to move up the food chain? Said some good things also but I'm not convinced. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 It's one thing to boast that Lukaku will one day be good enough to play for Barcelona. It's quite another to suggest that, if he remains at Everton, he will have failed. Even so both statements are true so I have no issue with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted November 16, 2016 Report Share Posted November 16, 2016 Needs to work on his beer belly. And left Southampton because their offer wasn't good enough, not because he wanted to move up the food chain? Said some good things also but I'm not convinced. We'll see. He's is a bit chubby! Him and Unsey must be sharing tips. Or food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 He's is a bit chubby! Him and Unsey must be sharing tips. Or food. Or Southall's fattening them up Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 He's mocking the club and the fans and Moshiri's happy to let him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Or Southall's fattening them up Christmas. Too much Carlsberg! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/koeman-warns-everton-players-criticism-12187327 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) Even so both statements are true so I have no issue with it 1. One day good enough to play for Barcelona? Not for me - not at all. His "goal record" may one day suggest that he should play for a club at that level but playing for Barcelona requires a certain type of player and he is no where near the technical or team ethic level required. Unless Barca ditch their "total football / Tiki taka" style and adapt a different style then why would he be a player for them? He struggled with Martinez's possession based football and wanted a direct approach - so what is going to change? Is he all of a sudden going to aggressively press defenders - Real Madrid - yeah maybe if he does get better. They have used a player who plays off the shoulder over the years - who is "AFFORDED" a bit of laziness, Barcelona? No, every player needs to be a technically competent and as hard working as the rest. 2. If he remains at Everton he will have failed? why? - I've seen many better players than Lukaku leave their club only to look back and realise that they bit off more than they could chew. Did going to Real Madrid really enhance Michael Owens career? - no. He won European footballer of the year at Liverpool and then went to warm the bench. If he stayed one more year he would have won the Champions league... how many supposed superstars have been bought up by Chelsea, Man City, Barca, Milans etc and nosedived - proving that they weren't actually good enough for the increased level of expectation? Koeman has inadvertently told the press and fans that whilst he is getting paid mega bucks (8th highest paid manager) that he sees Everton as a club that isn't good enough to have a player that no one felt good enough to bid the asking price in the summer. Only Conte, Klopp, Enrique, Wenger, Jose, Ancelotti and Pep are paid more money than Koeman..... every single one have expectations of either winning trophies or champions league qualifying. Yet here we are in another Penknives to Gunfights scenario and we are happy to pay a manager top wack for admitting as much. Edited November 17, 2016 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Only Conte, Klopp, Enrique, Wenger, Jose, Ancelotti and Pep are paid more money than Koeman..... every single one have expectations of either winning trophies or champions league qualifying. Yet here we are in another Penknives to Gunfights scenario and we are happy to pay a manager top wack for admitting as much. I think the penknives comparison is a bit harsh on Koeman to be honest. He's saying we're not in a position to compete at the moment - which we're not, but in the next 3 years he expects us to be title contenders. This is realistic in my opinion - he's made no secret that the money is there but Man C, United, The Shite, et al have been spending £100m year on year - realistically we're not going to be able to stake a claim to the title when their squads are brimming full of so much more depth in quality. It's not all about money and Leicester found a way but Koeman's a straight talking bloke and I think he's spot on regarding where we are/where he sees our progression. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 I think the penknives comparison is a bit harsh on Koeman to be honest. He's saying we're not in a position to compete at the moment - which we're not, but in the next 3 years he expects us to be title contenders. This is realistic in my opinion - he's made no secret that the money is there but Man C, United, The Shite, et al have been spending £100m year on year - realistically we're not going to be able to stake a claim to the title when their squads are brimming full of so much more depth in quality. It's not all about money and Leicester found a way but Koeman's a straight talking bloke and I think he's spot on regarding where we are/where he sees our progression. How were big pop festivals created? The promoter told other bands that another top band was appearing without having already got them.... it created the perception that you need to get on the bill. Honesty = no bands signed up. If Koeman wanted to be realistic he should have said:- "Top players win you trophies. We have some very good players at the club and we have players who need to step up more. Some players may want to move on but I'm building something here at Everton.... this club deserves to be great again. We will try and keep those who can take us to the next level and buy more who can can too" MikeO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/everton/story/2998182/ronald-koeman-everton-must-show-romelu-lukaku-their-title-credentials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 http://www.espnfc.co.uk/everton/story/2998182/ronald-koeman-everton-must-show-romelu-lukaku-their-title-credentials The amount of "we's" in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 The amount of "we's" in there! He meant him and his brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 How were big pop festivals created? The promoter told other bands that another top band was appearing without having already got them.... it created the perception that you need to get on the bill. Honesty = no bands signed up. Pop festival... sounds shite! Anyway, back on topic, I like Koeman's straight talking - he's justified his comments on Lukaku in Dunc's link and came across very well on BBC2 last night also saw some very encouraging quotes from the corporate event. Many people like bullshitters and smoke being blown up their arses as long as it's what they want to hear... personally I don't. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 He meant him and his brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue 250 Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) Pop festival... sounds shite! Anyway, back on topic, I like Koeman's straight talking - he's justified his comments on Lukaku in Dunc's link and came across very well on BBC2 last night also saw some very encouraging quotes from the corporate event. Many people like bullshitters and smoke being blown up their arses as long as it's what they want to hear... personally I don't. Spot on! Funny how people are already writing off Koeman because he doesn't say what they want to hear.He's picked up what looked on paper a good squad only to find that some just aren't doing the business and others are injury prone or just injured.On top of that his best player wants away. Give the bloke a chance. Edited November 17, 2016 by Blue 250 dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanmckenzieismagic Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3947228/Everton-manager-Ronald-Koeman-ruthless-Ross-Barkley-smoking-moving-Barcelona-No-No-no-no-no-no-No-don-t-think-no.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 17, 2016 Report Share Posted November 17, 2016 Pop festival... sounds shite! Anyway, back on topic, I like Koeman's straight talking - he's justified his comments on Lukaku in Dunc's link and came across very well on BBC2 last night also saw some very encouraging quotes from the corporate event. Many people like bullshitters and smoke being blown up their arses as long as it's what they want to hear... personally I don't. There's a reason he's now making these statements: He screwed up, he was reprimanded for it, and the PR team have told him what to say to get him out of the mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 There's a reason he's now making these statements: He screwed up, he was reprimanded for it, and the PR team have told him what to say to get him out of the mess. Koeman definitely comes across as someone that does as he's told... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 18, 2016 Report Share Posted November 18, 2016 Charm offensive indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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