Liverpool (FA Cup Away) Sunday January 5th

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

The other side of that argument is who comes in and do they have the skills that compliment the first teamers? Can Adeniran do that? If not who else is there that can? I'm sure if Gordon was a central midfielder he would have been playing games by now. 

Simple answer is - anyone! I'm sick to the back teeth of giving the likes of Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin chance after chance after chance to take the piss out of what it means to be an Everton player. And I wouldn't necessarily say its skills we're looking at short term, it's desire, energy, fitness, willingness to learn from a highly decorated coach and run yourself into the ground for 90 minutes that we need right now. That's what Liverpool's kids showed today. So yeah, Adeniran, Banigime, Evans, Denny... or we seem to be blessed with several highly thought of CBs in the U23s, why not stick one of them alongside Mina and play Holgate at CM until we can recruit better? 

Thing is, there's a lot of criticism of Man Utd and Arsenal for under achieving at the minute, and that has come about because a complete lack of strategic direction in terms of signings they've made over a number of years, a failure to rebuild teams. But at least they have recognised where some of the issues are and are blooding kids in the meantime. We have recruited worse than any team in the PL over the last five years, we've brought players in with absolutely no thought about how they fit together as a successful unit, we've overpaid for them and we have gone backwards as a result. Yet here we are still starting Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin in fucking midfield. When you sit back and think about it, it's hard to get your head round how, four managers later, that can still be happening. 

[nogs]

4 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Yeah it was awful first half. We should have been 3-0 up guess you would have known better then aswell 

Stop being a smart arse. It isn't about knowing better its about having an opinion on the game.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

In all my long suffering years as an Evertonian I have never witnessed a more shithouse totally inept 45 minutes of football as that second half.

Torally gutless, clueless and characterless performance as you are ever likely to see. Totally schooled by Liverpool’s U23 side

 

[Keith B]

This one hurts a lot. It was there for the taking.

[chicagoblue]

Carlo at the press conference: “Usually after the match I do not speak to the players, but today I will”

[Finn balor]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

Stop being a smart arse. It isn't about knowing better its about having an opinion on the game.

I’m not being a smart arse I’m merely pointing out after 4 games you think you know better than Carlo Ancelotti 

[Hafnia]

4 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Dunc had them playing with heart and fight right away, why make excuses for Carlo he carries a lot of responsibility for those cowards today

Oh ffs.... yeah maybe you are right.

Ancelotti failed us today.... he told siggy and schneiderlein to revert to type and stroll around.  He probably told Pickford to kick the ball to a red shirt every time, probably even told Walcott to just kick the ball anywhere in the second half. 

[markjazzbassist]

12 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

I’m not being a smart arse I’m merely pointing out after 4 games you think you know better than Carlo Ancelotti 

Don’t worry about him Finn.  He just shows up when we are doing bad to rant.  Part of the boo boys

[pete0]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jordan-henderson-dedicates-entire-programme-17515287?fbclid=IwAR18hVToz7PSH81YRR45pzRb-972ItR9B5-7t8aYODlX4wBk_EId5cGVijA

[Gwlad]

5 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

Most of these players need to go. The whole project needs to be getting rid of the whole squad over the next few windows and bringing in fresh blood with the right attitude. These big wages need to be knocked on the head. We want players who want to play first and be concerned about their wages second.

I agree with that and  (can't be bothered to check their squad) probably Leicester's Prem winning side wanted to play first, wages second so maybe a case in point.

[Heath]

Well, that was embarrassing. When did we turn into mid 1980's Wimbledon ffs? Not seen so many long balls hoofed upfield.

[barryj]

Well I’m glad I made my usual 7 hour round trip for that. It was absolutely pitiful. The only thing I can say in defence is they looked drained and I wonder whether the Christmas games and Duncs few games of high octane effort has taken its toll. We should have been out of sight by 35 mins and I was saying to those around me that they could cost us dear and they did. How Richarlison, Holgate and DCL managed to put it in the only place that wouldn’t result in a goal was ridiculous. I think those missed chances spurred them on and got in our heads and we looked mentally shot. Carlo has obviously been changing the style and once again we are trying to play out from the back with players that can’t do it, lacking in confidence and there is no movement in front of them that just led to us time and time again bringing pressure on ourselves. DCL won nearly everything in the air so why we didn’t work on that constructively I don’t know. Angry, frustrated and upset as they were there for taking today. Joke.

[Cornish Steve]

How many times does it need to be said? Games are won and lost in midfield; Schneiderlin should never be a part of our team; and Sigurdsson doesn't fit in our team. The only reason they're playing is because of injuries to Gbamin and Gomes, but that's still no excuse. In this January window, our biggest need by far (and it's been this way for a while now) is a dominating midfielder - a bully, a strong personality, and a leader. Until we fix the midfield, we won't fix the team. And please get rid of Walcott because he's at least a couple of years past his sell-by date.

There is a silver lining here, and that is that Ancelotti can focus on the league without being distracted by a cup competition. Clearly, many teams (across all leagues) view it as a distraction - and so do many fans (how few showed up in Cardiff, for example?). It's sad, because the FA Cup final was perhaps the highlight of the year when I was a kid: It was something special.

To those who say the FA Cup should be won as a route to get into Europe, I would respond that we should be playing in Europe only when we're good enough to be playing in Europe - which means finishing higher in the league. Even then, it can be a struggle (as we saw in Martinez' second year).

It's really really embarrassing, though, that we can't even beat the Liverpool U-21s. It will build Carlo's case, though, for bringing in new blood and selling S&S.

[Palfy]

Ancelotti won’t be able to achieve anything with this team, he can bollock them throw cups of tea or boots at them it won’t make a difference, it’s not a football team it’s a bunch of over paid cunts. 
Some were in the region of over 400 million spent in just over 3 years and Norwich Brighton and Southampton play more attractive football than us. 
But that’s not the end of it if some reports on our financial situation are correct we can’t even expect to buy our way out of this mess, it’s already been reported that Ancelotti is going to get a smaller budget than he anticipated, whether or not he’s the man to turn us round or not I fear we may never get to find out, because if he can’t do what he needs to in the way of playing staff he will walk away, he won’t allow his reputation to be ruined by Moshiri. 
What is the answer god knows, is it to promote some of the youngsters and shelf the players that aren’t and haven’t been performing for a long time, it couldn’t do any more harm than we are seeing now, it’s been working for Chelsea Man Utd and to a degree Spurs and Liverpool, since we have consistently had one of the better U23 squads for years why haven’t we you would think it would make sense to most people, but unfortunately Moshiri isn’t most people he works on the basis of I can buy success, well I think we can all see that the project buy our to the top has completely failed. 
So let’s look with in for some inspiration and blood some of our young talent it could be the breath of fresh air we need, and if some of the players throw their dummies out the pram or even the manager for not getting the funds he was promised, then good because this club is bigger than any person in it, and that includes Moshiri who has a lot to answer for in the way this team  has gone backwards since he took over. 

[nogs]

9 hours ago, Finn balor said:

I’m not being a smart arse I’m merely pointing out after 4 games you think you know better than Carlo Ancelotti 

No I'm not. I'm pointing out that everything was wrong about yesterday's capitulation and no one should be excused criticism, including the manager. 

[nogs]

9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

Don’t worry about him Finn.  He just shows up when we are doing bad to rant.  Part of the boo boys

I've generally ignored everything you have to say since many years ago you accused me of being a 'Red Shite' fan. I'll continue doing the same. 

[nogs]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

Ancelotti won’t be able to achieve anything with this team, he can bollock them throw cups of tea or boots at them it won’t make a difference, it’s not a football team it’s a bunch of over paid cunts. 
Some were in the region of over 400 million spent in just over 3 years and Norwich Brighton and Southampton play more attractive football than us. 
But that’s not the end of it if some reports on our financial situation are correct we can’t even expect to buy our way out of this mess, it’s already been reported that Ancelotti is going to get a smaller budget than he anticipated, whether or not he’s the man to turn us round or not I fear we may never get to find out, because if he can’t do what he needs to in the way of playing staff he will walk away, he won’t allow his reputation to be ruined by Moshiri. 
What is the answer god knows, is it to promote some of the youngsters and shelf the players that aren’t and haven’t been performing for a long time, it couldn’t do any more harm than we are seeing now, it’s been working for Chelsea Man Utd and to a degree Spurs and Liverpool, since we have consistently had one of the better U23 squads for years why haven’t we you would think it would make sense to most people, but unfortunately Moshiri isn’t most people he works on the basis of I can buy success, well I think we can all see that the project buy our to the top has completely failed. 
So let’s look with in for some inspiration and blood some of our young talent it could be the breath of fresh air we need, and if some of the players throw their dummies out the pram or even the manager for not getting the funds he was promised, then good because this club is bigger than any person in it, and that includes Moshiri who has a lot to answer for in the way this team  has gone backwards since he took over. 

We need a vision for how to build a successful football team. If that involves bruising a few overpaid egos, so be it. There really is no reason for the likes of Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Tosun etc getting a kick for us any more, no matter what wages they are on. They're not delivering, they shouldn't play, regardless of who's in charge. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, nogs said:

No I'm not. I'm pointing out that everything was wrong about yesterday's capitulation and no one should be excused criticism, including the manager. 

I agree no one can be excused for that performance even the manager and his team, he chose to put in Gylfi and Schneiderlin as his MF pairing nobody else, and they are possibly the 2 worse players at the club as most of us on here could have told, and I don’t go with the lack of options shit, he should have gone to Unsworth and got the 2 best options available from the U23s instead of picking the 2 worst options in the entire Everton squad, so in my opinion he has to carry some of the responsibility. 

[Romey 1878]

I'm embarrassed and ashamed by our performance. We were terrified of a bunch of kids ffs. A very similar side played against Villa and Villa took them apart. That's all I can be arsed saying about the game.

The one positive of the game is that at least Ancelotti now knows what utter shithouses we have playing for us and he won't keep them around.

[Tonsta]

12 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Oh ffs.... yeah maybe you are right.

Ancelotti failed us today.... he told siggy and schneiderlein to revert to type and stroll around.  He probably told Pickford to kick the ball to a red shirt every time, probably even told Walcott to just kick the ball anywhere in the second half. 

But he defiantly never put any fire or pride in their belly. We are not talking about a bad day at the office, we are talking total humiliation.

And he did pick those toss pots when better choices were available.

[Hafnia]

24 minutes ago, Tonsta said:

But he defiantly never put any fire or pride in their belly. We are not talking about a bad day at the office, we are talking total humiliation.

And he did pick those toss pots when better choices were available.

Davies hardly impressed last time out.... other than that who was available to play midfield???

I would be more concerned by Ancelotti if this was the 2nd or 3rd time he experienced such performances from supposed internationals.... I trust he seen what we seen and will act accordingly. 

[Tonsta]

9 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Davies hardly impressed last time out.... other than that who was available to play midfield???

I would be more concerned by Ancelotti if this was the 2nd or 3rd time he experienced such performances from supposed internationals.... I trust he seen what we seen and will act accordingly. 

He could have played Keane (not great i know) at the back put Holgate and Davis in CM,at least they can go above walking pace.

He could have played Bearnard to keep the full backs busy, he could have played Delph for a bit of steel. There were lots of choices.

And although this was one game to him, its piss take and humiliation for the next 20 years from my all red supporting family and friends.

Carlo will have forgotten this happen before he finishes his breakfast this morning. 

I appreciate everyone will say oh its just a one off we will improve, we will never be allowed to forget.

And yes Carlo picked a team of internationals, and they let him down, but i will bet everyone at the club will have told him not to play 2 strollers in CM who could not tackle

a good dinner or run a bath.

Rant Over 

[Palfy]

10 minutes ago, Tonsta said:

He could have played Keane (not great i know) at the back put Holgate and Davis in CM,at least they can go above walking pace.

He could have played Bearnard to keep the full backs busy, he could have played Delph for a bit of steel. There were lots of choices.

And although this was one game to him, its piss take and humiliation for the next 20 years from my all red supporting family and friends.

Carlo will have forgotten this happen before he finishes his breakfast this morning. 

I appreciate everyone will say oh its just a one off we will improve, we will never be allowed to forget.

And yes Carlo picked a team of internationals, and they let him down, but i will bet everyone at the club will have told him not to play 2 strollers in CM who could not tackle

a good dinner or run a bath.

Rant Over 

That is a fair rant Tonsta from the heart a true blue heart , and your right to be angry it’s a humiliation we will have to carry for years, every rag has laughed at us it’s not just the shite laughing the whole country are laughing, we have been let down humiliated and embarrassed by nearly all the players, but in particularly 2 players that should not have been picked or considered that they together would be acceptable, that was a huge mistake by the managerial team, that I don’t believe can be defended. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

I'm embarrassed and ashamed by our performance. We were terrified of a bunch of kids ffs. A very similar side played against Villa and Villa took them apart. That's all I can be arsed saying about the game.

The one positive of the game is that at least Ancelotti now knows what utter shithouses we have playing for us and he won't keep them around.

Yeah this is what I thought too.  He will have gylfi and Morgan short listed you be off and a whole new midfield as first priority.  Gomes well never know if he will be the same, gbamin is like Area 51 we can’t get any information.  So I assume it’s just start over and If they both make it back they’ll have to provide cover or competition.

[Hafnia]

35 minutes ago, Tonsta said:

He could have played Keane (not great i know) at the back put Holgate and Davis in CM,at least they can go above walking pace.

He could have played Bearnard to keep the full backs busy, he could have played Delph for a bit of steel. There were lots of choices.

And although this was one game to him, its piss take and humiliation for the next 20 years from my all red supporting family and friends.

Carlo will have forgotten this happen before he finishes his breakfast this morning. 

I appreciate everyone will say oh its just a one off we will improve, we will never be allowed to forget.

And yes Carlo picked a team of internationals, and they let him down, but i will bet everyone at the club will have told him not to play 2 strollers in CM who could not tackle

a good dinner or run a bath.

Rant Over 

Not even the most ardent critics of gylfi and schneiderlein expected that level of performance yesterday....throw in Walcott, Richarlisons off day and pickfords very concerning mindset and we have a fully up to speed Carlo.....

 

The only positive I can take is that the players who had a clean slate no longer have one.....

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Don't think it's hyperbolic to say yesterday will be responsible for the results we see over the next 18 months - perhaps longer. We either continue to rot and pick daisies on the pitch until Carlo is sacked (not his fault) or he/Brands wield the ax and somehow figure out how to turn this pile of shit into a football TEAM. 

[Bailey]

19 hours ago, TallPaul1878 said:

That has been our problem since we signed Siggy and Schneiderlin. They just aren't supporting the front player. They haven't got the fitness or the determination to get up and down the pitch. We look so lethargic in midfield.

We will have to see how this Gbamin turns out after his return from injury. Gomes is a knock quantity that I would keep around. The rest of them, and I'm sorry to say it includes Davies, should all be shipped out. They're just missing the very basic qualities to be a footballer and that is athleticism.

Yesterday there was no link with the forward players. When you play 442 that needs to come from either the forwards or wide players. Siggy and Schneiderlin were trying to get on the ball but because of the lack of other options so often the ball had to go long. Our back 4 dropped deeper and deeper, the forwards even more isolated and there is absolutely no way any midfielder in our side can deal with that. Of all the traits they have, 2 men against 3, protecting the back 4 and supporting the front 2 isn't going to happen. 

19 hours ago, Shukes said:

Totally. A name doesn’t give you an excuse. Any other manage would be getting ripped.

We know it’s a project, but total capitulation in the second half, cannot be excused. Awful performance and an embarrassment. 
 

Said it after the last game. Bang back down to earth. Loads of work to be done.

But even I could see... Morgan has been shit for a very long time, picking him is a mistake.

I think it's a mistaake to think that putting Davies or Delph in would have changed anything. 

19 hours ago, Tonsta said:

You mean apart from the 5 goals, yes they took us apart but we never had a shot in the 2nd half. dont get your point 

Villa played with bottle and spirit and scored 5 

Villa went up early and then defended deep on the counter, leaving Liverpool with a lot of the ball. They created a lot more chances than they did last night. If we had gone 2 up we would have been the same.

17 hours ago, nogs said:

Simple answer is - anyone! I'm sick to the back teeth of giving the likes of Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin chance after chance after chance to take the piss out of what it means to be an Everton player. And I wouldn't necessarily say its skills we're looking at short term, it's desire, energy, fitness, willingness to learn from a highly decorated coach and run yourself into the ground for 90 minutes that we need right now. That's what Liverpool's kids showed today. So yeah, Adeniran, Banigime, Evans, Denny... or we seem to be blessed with several highly thought of CBs in the U23s, why not stick one of them alongside Mina and play Holgate at CM until we can recruit better? 

Thing is, there's a lot of criticism of Man Utd and Arsenal for under achieving at the minute, and that has come about because a complete lack of strategic direction in terms of signings they've made over a number of years, a failure to rebuild teams. But at least they have recognised where some of the issues are and are blooding kids in the meantime. We have recruited worse than any team in the PL over the last five years, we've brought players in with absolutely no thought about how they fit together as a successful unit, we've overpaid for them and we have gone backwards as a result. Yet here we are still starting Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin in fucking midfield. When you sit back and think about it, it's hard to get your head round how, four managers later, that can still be happening. 

Maybe because 4 managers think they aren't bad players? 

What we know is that anyone couldn't do better. Davies can't, Delph can't and Gomes showed at times last year that he can't either. 

[Tonsta]

45 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Yesterday there was no link with the forward players. When you play 442 that needs to come from either the forwards or wide players. Siggy and Schneiderlin were trying to get on the ball but because of the lack of other options so often the ball had to go long. Our back 4 dropped deeper and deeper, the forwards even more isolated and there is absolutely no way any midfielder in our side can deal with that. Of all the traits they have, 2 men against 3, protecting the back 4 and supporting the front 2 isn't going to happen. 

I think it's a mistaake to think that putting Davies or Delph in would have changed anything. 

Villa went up early and then defended deep on the counter, leaving Liverpool with a lot of the ball. They created a lot more chances than they did last night. If we had gone 2 up we would have been the same.

Maybe because 4 managers think they aren't bad players? 

What we know is that anyone couldn't do better. Davies can't, Delph can't and Gomes showed at times last year that he can't either. 

Davis Delph can and have played better, Schneiderlin has not played well since the day he arrived nor did he play well at utd.

As for Gomes we should build a team around him,apart from the odd game he has been a shinning light, and the only footballer in our side.

You seam to be making excuses for every one of the people who are responsible for the position we are in.

[nogs]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Maybe because 4 managers think they aren't bad players? 

What we know is that anyone couldn't do better. Davies can't, Delph can't and Gomes showed at times last year that he can't either. 

Then I'd politely ask what the fuck our last four managers have been on! 

Schneiderlin has been in and out the side countless times, which tells its own story. Same as Tosun, Keane, Walcott - inability to pin down a place, because they basically aren't good enough. Sigurdsson gets played because everyone knows he has a match winning goal or set piece in him. But he has been awful this season, truly awful. 

Look, my thought last night were largely the same as v City - we couldn't handle the high press, we were left chasing shadows by a team that was very comfortable in possession moving the ball quickly and purposefully. What's really galling is last night we got taught a lesson by a reserve side, which can never be good enough. We never got our foot on the ball in the middle of the park, whether it was system or personnel I don't know, but surely if we'd done that there'd have been more of a chance to get at such an inexperienced side? We should have been bossing that game, second half we didn't touch them. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Davis Delph can and have played better, Schneiderlin has not played well since the day he arrived nor did he play well at utd.

As for Gomes we should build a team around him,apart from the odd game he has been a shinning light, and the only footballer in our side.

You seam to be making excuses for every one of the people who are responsible for the position we are in.

If Schneiderlin is that bad why haven't we played so much better without him? We were shite in the middle against City and Newcastle when he didn't play? Same against Arsenal for that matter! 

If Gomes is the shining lightweight have we been absolutely battered with him in the team as well? He is streets above the rest but he still suffers from the same problems the rest of them do.

I am pointing out that there is far more to it than changing a player for another similar player. We have been through similar problems for years now, and if you still think Schneiderlin is the answer to our poor form, you are asking the wrong question.

4 minutes ago, nogs said:

Then I'd politely ask what the fuck our last four managers have been on! 

Schneiderlin has been in and out the side countless times, which tells its own story. Same as Tosun, Keane, Walcott - inability to pin down a place, because they basically aren't good enough. Sigurdsson gets played because everyone knows he has a match winning goal or set piece in him. But he has been awful this season, truly awful. 

Look, my thought last night were largely the same as v City - we couldn't handle the high press, we were left chasing shadows by a team that was very comfortable in possession moving the ball quickly and purposefully. What's really galling is last night we got taught a lesson by a reserve side, which can never be good enough. We never got our foot on the ball in the middle of the park, whether it was system or personnel I don't know, but surely if we'd done that there'd have been more of a chance to get at such an inexperienced side? We should have been bossing that game, second half we didn't touch them. 

Who has been consistently played though? Digne, Pickford, Siggy, Richarlison. That probably does tell it's own story to be fair!

I agree with most of the 2nd paragraph. We didn't deal with the pressure, they also didn't deal with having to deal with an extra man against them. Do you not question why a manager would play two shockingly bad midfielders (by everyone else's standards), against an opposition midfield with more players, and then try and get them to play football through them? Is that not a bit of madness?

Look at what Dunc achieved. It wasn't pretty but we defended deep but we lumped it forward to two big lads and when they won the first or second ball then the rest of the team joined in and moved up the pitch. For most of last night's game the front 4 were anonymous. No help for the midfield or the full backs at all. The only option was to punt it forward and hope for the best. Once Klopp twigged, they saw us off with ease because we kept trying to play from the back and instead of long passes we were playing clearances.

You know my thoughts on our midfielders, I think they are a very average bunch at best, but at the same time you have to play to what you have and for the last 2 or 3 games we haven't (albeit we did at the end against Newcastle).