Liverpool (FA Cup Away) Sunday January 5th

[nogs]

3 minutes ago, Bailey said:

If Schneiderlin is that bad why haven't we played so much better without him? We were shite in the middle against City and Newcastle when he didn't play? Same against Arsenal for that matter! 

If Gomes is the shining lightweight have we been absolutely battered with him in the team as well? He is streets above the rest but he still suffers from the same problems the rest of them do.

I am pointing out that there is far more to it than changing a player for another similar player. We have been through similar problems for years now, and if you still think Schneiderlin is the answer to our poor form, you are asking the wrong question.

Who has been consistently played though? Digne, Pickford, Siggy, Richarlison. That probably does tell it's own story to be fair!

I agree with most of the 2nd paragraph. We didn't deal with the pressure, they also didn't deal with having to deal with an extra man against them. Do you not question why a manager would play two shockingly bad midfielders (by everyone else's standards), against an opposition midfield with more players, and then try and get them to play football through them? Is that not a bit of madness?

Look at what Dunc achieved. It wasn't pretty but we defended deep but we lumped it forward to two big lads and when they won the first or second ball then the rest of the team joined in and moved up the pitch. For most of last night's game the front 4 were anonymous. No help for the midfield or the full backs at all. The only option was to punt it forward and hope for the best. Once Klopp twigged, they saw us off with ease because we kept trying to play from the back and instead of long passes we were playing clearances.

You know my thoughts on our midfielders, I think they are a very average bunch at best, but at the same time you have to play to what you have and for the last 2 or 3 games we haven't (albeit we did at the end against Newcastle).

I thought we were very good v Burnley with Sidibe out wide, Bernard providing the extra man in midfield and Delph allowing Sigurdsson to play a bit more. Granted they play nothing like the way any Liverpool side play, but we showed we looked decent in possession with that line up. 

As to why you'd play those two numpties in midfield together and try to pass the ball - well I just wouldn't have played them. Against Liverpools first XI, sure - sit back in a low block and try to hit them on the break. But surely against the kids we should have had footballers out there who are good enough to break the press and get at a very inexperienced defence? 

I actually wonder if the number of changes Klopp made caught us by surprised, we were set up to play on the counter, then thought we should go another way. I'm not sure I got the formation at all either, with Sidibe, Walcott and Coleman all on the right. It just all looked a mess. 

[Cornish Steve]

Why did four managers pick Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson week after week? This to me is a big mystery. The only answer I can think of is that we’ve been desperately short of decent midfield options for all that time. It’s not because they play well enough to justify their selection. 

[Haiku]

28 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

Why did four managers pick Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson week after week? This to me is a big mystery. The only answer I can think of is that we’ve been desperately short of decent midfield options for all that time. It’s not because they play well enough to justify their selection. 

What other options do we have? Davies and Delph currently. With the tight schedule of late it's impossible to carry on with two midfielders only. This was supposed to be an easy game, since the Shite are obviously not interested in cup games. We used 3 of the 4 options and we failed miserably. Sorry, but I do not consider Holgate as an alternative, he's defender first and foremost. I'm not a huge fan of Ancelotti, I didn't wanted him to come in the first place, but I don't blame him for the selection he made. He's here for a couple of weeks only and many on this forum suggest we better have used some of our academy players instead. Sure, but if he did so and we inevitably lose then the same people will question his selection again. Bear in mind match selection is not available until after both teams fill the team sheets. No one would know what players the other team will field beforehand. It was embarrasing result and I put the blame entirely on the players. Ancelotti is not a God, anyone who thought he will instanly turn that highly demotivated poor quality squad into a world beater then he has lost his mind. If anything I hope Ancelotti realized what he's dealing with and will take actions accordingly.

[kaloo20]

On 05/01/2020 at 15:21, Finn balor said:

Totally this 

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by kaloo20
Wrong post attribution

[kaloo20]

On 05/01/2020 at 15:16, Tonsta said:

You mean apart from the 5 goals, yes they took us apart but we never had a shot in the 2nd half. dont get your point 

Villa played with bottle and spirit and scored 5 

Liverpool literally played their reserves, a weaker team than the one that beat Everton yesterday. There was no Adrian, Gomez, or Milner, or Mane. May I also remind you that Liverpool had no choice but to put out the reserve team for the Villa game. To somehow mock the Liverpool under-23s for losing to a professional Premier League side is somewhat unfair.

Everton should have put away their chances yesterday, but didn't...That's football sometimes

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

Why did four managers pick Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson week after week? This to me is a big mystery. The only answer I can think of is that we’ve been desperately short of decent midfield options for all that time. It’s not because they play well enough to justify their selection. 

Should be a rule at the club that only one gets to play of those two and Keane. Worst spine in football. 

[Tonsta]

7 minutes ago, kaloo20 said:

Liverpool literally played their reserves, a weaker team than the one that beat Everton yesterday. There was no Adrian, Gomez, or Milner, or Mane. May I also remind you that Liverpool had no choice but to put out the reserve team for the Villa game. To somehow mock the Liverpool under-23s for losing to a professional Premier League side is somewhat unfair.

Everton should have put away their chances yesterday, but didn't...That's football sometimes

Milner lasted 10 mins, Mane never played no one is mocking Liverpool, All the mocking is against us not even competing with there kids, when Villa destroyed them.

[MikeO]

Salt in the 'king wounds. Away game at Bristol is the dream for me and my lad and who do Liverpool get if the 4th round? Depends on BC beating Shrewsbury in a replay but even there would be easy for us, I must've been Genghis Khan in a previous life.

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Would give my right nut for Gana, McCarthy and Besic instead of Schneiderlin and Gylfi. Effort and less talent over talent and less effort every day. Stating the obvious we have some but not enough with both.

[Hafnia]

I'd love to have kept Gana, pity. 

[kaloo20]

3 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Milner lasted 10 mins, Mane never played no one is mocking Liverpool, All the mocking is against us not even competing with there kids, when Villa destroyed them.

As Villa should have destroyed them. Many of Liverpool's reserves are not even even full professionals, so Aston Villa was SUPPOSED to destroy them. Mane indeed did not play, BUT was preparing to come on in the event that the game continued at 0-0. As fate would have it, Jones had his moment

Ox came on as a substitute; that option was not available versus Villa...

To sum up, all things being equal, Liverpool most likely would have put out a similar team against Villa in the Caribou Cup to the one that beat Everton yesterday, but since they were in Qatar for the FIFA Club World Cup, that was not possible.

 

[nogs]

It was pretty depressing watching how Arteta had Arsenal flying into tackles and hunting in packs against Leeds second half last night.

[markjazzbassist]

3 hours ago, nogs said:

It was pretty depressing watching how Arteta had Arsenal flying into tackles and hunting in packs against Leeds second half last night.

They won on luck, Leeds outplayed them the majority of the match.  First half Leeds had 15 shots and 5 on goal, arsenal 1 and 1.  Leeds out possessed them as well.  Leeds was battering them until arsenal got a lucky goal.  If Leeds had a proper striker they would have won 3-0

[Palfy]

29 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

They won on luck, Leeds outplayed them the majority of the match.  First half Leeds had 15 shots and 5 on goal, arsenal 1 and 1.  Leeds out possessed them as well.  Leeds was battering them until arsenal got a lucky goal.  If Leeds had a proper striker they would have won 3-0

That sounds familiar

[Tonsta]

16 hours ago, kaloo20 said:

As Villa should have destroyed them. Many of Liverpool's reserves are not even even full professionals, so Aston Villa was SUPPOSED to destroy them. Mane indeed did not play, BUT was preparing to come on in the event that the game continued at 0-0. As fate would have it, Jones had his moment

Ox came on as a substitute; that option was not available versus Villa...

To sum up, all things being equal, Liverpool most likely would have put out a similar team against Villa in the Caribou Cup to the one that beat Everton yesterday, but since they were in Qatar for the FIFA Club World Cup, that was not possible.

 

Straws and clutching

[plaidharper]

Paddy Power has done us again via twitter...  Not even noon here in the states and I need a drink.

[Palfy]

19 hours ago, Hafnia said:

I'd love to have kept Gana, pity. 

Why didn’t we he had 3 years left on his contract, if he walked on a free after that would have only cost 8-9 million a year on what we sold him for, peanuts compared to what we have thrown away on other players ?

[Hafnia]

34 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Why didn’t we he had 3 years left on his contract, if he walked on a free after that would have only cost 8-9 million a year on what we sold him for, peanuts compared to what we have thrown away on other players ?

Cos brands listened to you and Peteo....  

[Palfy]

Just now, Hafnia said:

Cos brands listened to you and Peteo....  

[kaloo20]

8 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Straws and clutching

Nope, logic, which seems to be missing from your posts on the topic of the Caribou Cup game. I mean Liverpool could have forfeited the Caribou Cup game, but didn't.

Did you expect Liverpool FC to field a strong team in two locations at once?

How on earth an academy team of novice teenagers can be expected to beat a Premier League team and to be derided for it is beyond me.

 

 

 

[pete0]

7 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Cos brands listened to you and Peteo....  

If he did he'd have got rid of Keane and Sigurdssen whereas most you lot were still bumming them after our 'revival' last year. 

Our centre mids have been much better this year than the previous three, mostly as the bar was set do low. How many chances have we conceded through the middle? 

[Hafnia]

6 hours ago, pete0 said:

If he did he'd have got rid of Keane and Sigurdssen whereas most you lot were still bumming them after our 'revival' last year. 

Our centre mids have been much better this year than the previous three, mostly as the bar was set do low. How many chances have we conceded through the middle? 

Our centre mids have been much better this year? Really???

Davies for all his spirit doesn't have the athleticism, gives the ball away too much, picks up bookings cos he's too slow.

Delph... made of glass. Not what we thought.

Siggy.... just no.

But yeah we were right to get shut of gana because you called out Keane to be shite when people were suggesting to give him a chance.  Confidence player with no pace..... can look very good some times, awful others .... does t make you right. Most called that on here. 

I'd go further and say Mina isn't good enough, nor is Digne if he doesn't rectify what's going on.

But to say gana isn't missed is a joke.

[pete0]

19 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

Our centre mids have been much better this year? Really???

Davies for all his spirit doesn't have the athleticism, gives the ball away too much, picks up bookings cos he's too slow.

Delph... made of glass. Not what we thought.

Siggy.... just no.

But yeah we were right to get shut of gana because you called out Keane to be shite when people were suggesting to give him a chance.  Confidence player with no pace..... can look very good some times, awful others .... does t make you right. Most called that on here. 

I'd go further and say Mina isn't good enough, nor is Digne if he doesn't rectify what's going on.

But to say gana isn't missed is a joke.

They have scored more goals and created more chances going forward. Defensively we've conceded less chances through the CMs, and a lot less clear cut ones through the middle. 

[Tonsta]

10 hours ago, kaloo20 said:

Nope, logic, which seems to be missing from your posts on the topic of the Caribou Cup game. I mean Liverpool could have forfeited the Caribou Cup game, but didn't.

Did you expect Liverpool FC to field a strong team in two locations at once?

How on earth an academy team of novice teenagers can be expected to beat a Premier League team and to be derided for it is beyond me.

 

 

 

No logic in your post i think, kids is kids, only one first player played in that game, kids ran us riot and kids deserved to win.

You seam to want to make a distinction between which set of kids and ignore the fact that our first team was beaten by kids.

[Palfy]

Just been reading a story that after the game big Dunc was laying down the law and giving the players the hairdryer treatment, and 5 or 6 of the senior players went back at him with equal ferocity blaming Ancelotti’s tactics for the loss. 
Well I foresee some big changes in the not so distant future. 

[kaloo20]

1 hour ago, Tonsta said:

No logic in your post i think, kids is kids, only one first player played in that game, kids ran us riot and kids deserved to win.

You seam to want to make a distinction between which set of kids and ignore the fact that our first team was beaten by kids.

There is logic, and the distinction is obvious for even the most casual follower of footballer who understands tactics

https://global.espn.com/football/lineups?gameId=558874

https://global.espn.com/football/lineups?gameId=560372

Based on the link I posted above, there is a clear disparity in the quality of the resources used for the Liverpool game vs Aston Villa in the Caribou Cup and the resources used in Liverpool game vs Everton. Neil Critchey (Under-23 Liverpool coach) was in charge  Adrian was in goal for the Everton game, and Gomez organized the Liverpool defence; added to the fact that Minamino (established professional), Lallana (established professional) and Origi (established professional) started for Liverpool).

The distinction between the Caribou Cup game and Liverpool game is quite clear and obvious.

Who were the established professionals that started for the Aston Villa game? 

Also, have you forgotten that Ox came on as a substitute for Liverpool?

To help you, if Liverpool had put out the same lineup that it had for the Aston Villa game, there would have been a strong likelihood that Everton would have advanced.

Again, it would be expected that a full team with professionals would EASILY dispense with academy kids.

As for the game last Sunday, if Everton were more clinical in the first half, the game could have been different, with Klopp being forced to make changes to prevent the tie from getting away from Liverpool. 

[Palfy]

12 minutes ago, kaloo20 said:

There is logic, and the distinction is obvious for even the most casual follower of footballer who understands tactics

https://global.espn.com/football/lineups?gameId=558874

https://global.espn.com/football/lineups?gameId=560372

Based on the link I posted above, there is a clear disparity in the quality of the resources used for the Liverpool game vs Aston Villa in the Caribou Cup and the resources used in Liverpool game vs Everton. Neil Critchey (Under-23 Liverpool coach) was in charge  Adrian was in goal for the Everton game, and Gomez organized the Liverpool defence; added to the fact that Minamino (established professional), Lallana (established professional) and Origi (established professional) started for Liverpool).

The distinction between the Caribou Cup game and Liverpool game is quite clear and obvious.

Who were the established professionals that started for the Aston Villa game? 

Also, have you forgotten that Ox came on as a substitute for Liverpool?

To help you, if Liverpool had put out the same lineup that it had for the Aston Villa game, there would have been a strong likelihood that Everton would have advanced.

Again, it would be expected that a full team with professionals would EASILY dispense with academy kids.

As for the game last Sunday, if Everton were more clinical in the first half, the game could have been different, with Klopp being forced to make changes to prevent the tie from getting away from Liverpool. 

So there were 4 seasoned pros who don’t make the first team and one more who played about twenty minutes, that doesn’t make me feel any better, and I don’t see that as any excuse for losing. 
I know you’re trying to distinguish the differences from the Villa game and ours, but we are meant to be a better team than Villa so taking that into account and what you said do you think those players made the difference for a win and a six goals difference, and do you believe that the the team that beat us would turned have  round the 5 goal deficit and beat Villa?

 I just find it the worst defeat by the shite since 1985 that I can remember. 

[milesey05]

Gyfli and Morgan seemed to have shouldered much of the blame after this defeat. Yes they were awful, like the rest of the team, but i'm slightly annoyed that Mina and Holgate seemed to have escaped the critics!

I have not seen a more shambolic ball playing CB since Traore from the shite regarding Mina. At one point he kicked the ball out of play when a player was down but he didnt mean to! It was meant to be a pass to Coleman. Every time he's on the ball he looks nervous and just unnatural. IMO i thought him and Holgate were just as bad at the back to what our CM's were.

Holgate probably give the ball away more than Mina but who else do we have....Keane!!! worse than the 2 we have.

With Gylfi there is a player in there but Morgan.....just not a footballer. 

[Palfy]

15 minutes ago, milesey05 said:

Gyfli and Morgan seemed to have shouldered much of the blame after this defeat. Yes they were awful, like the rest of the team, but i'm slightly annoyed that Mina and Holgate seemed to have escaped the critics!

I have not seen a more shambolic ball playing CB since Traore from the shite regarding Mina. At one point he kicked the ball out of play when a player was down but he didnt mean to! It was meant to be a pass to Coleman. Every time he's on the ball he looks nervous and just unnatural. IMO i thought him and Holgate were just as bad at the back to what our CM's were.

Holgate probably give the ball away more than Mina but who else do we have....Keane!!! worse than the 2 we have.

With Gylfi there is a player in there but Morgan.....just not a footballer. 

Couldn’t agree more a total shambles from top to bottom. 

[Tonsta]

1 hour ago, kaloo20 said:

There is logic, and the distinction is obvious for even the most casual follower of footballer who understands tactics

https://global.espn.com/football/lineups?gameId=558874

https://global.espn.com/football/lineups?gameId=560372

Based on the link I posted above, there is a clear disparity in the quality of the resources used for the Liverpool game vs Aston Villa in the Caribou Cup and the resources used in Liverpool game vs Everton. Neil Critchey (Under-23 Liverpool coach) was in charge  Adrian was in goal for the Everton game, and Gomez organized the Liverpool defence; added to the fact that Minamino (established professional), Lallana (established professional) and Origi (established professional) started for Liverpool).

The distinction between the Caribou Cup game and Liverpool game is quite clear and obvious.

Who were the established professionals that started for the Aston Villa game? 

Also, have you forgotten that Ox came on as a substitute for Liverpool?

To help you, if Liverpool had put out the same lineup that it had for the Aston Villa game, there would have been a strong likelihood that Everton would have advanced.

Again, it would be expected that a full team with professionals would EASILY dispense with academy kids.

As for the game last Sunday, if Everton were more clinical in the first half, the game could have been different, with Klopp being forced to make changes to prevent the tie from getting away from Liverpool.  and very 

You obviously need some kind of rational to accept what happened last Sunday, where i just accept that it was one of the worst days in our history.

As for more clinical in front of goal same said for any sport, if i had sunk those 3 putts on saturday i would not have lost to a 20 handicapper, its bollocks we did not take our chancres  and we very rarely do. You make all the excuses and comparisons you like, the outcome is the same.