Corona Virus

[Bailey]

Bit of a difference!

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Bit of a difference!

Fucking dangerous.... Don't they get people to double check these claims??? How many people cancelled their jab???

[Bailey]

15 hours ago, MikeO said:

I don't think it shows "the difficulties we (potentially) faced" at all in terms of the practicalities of shutting the border, it suggests (to me) that we would "feel the effects" more acutely in economic terms because we'd have stopped more people coming in.

If you lock your door up tight it doesn't matter how many people come knocking on it if you're turning them all away.

No not in terms of the practicality of shutting the border, but it does in respect of the level of international travel in the two countries and the amount of people per week who come here by air, not to mention by car and boat.

Don't quote me on my maths here, but based on the figures I quoted before, on average we received 2.78million international travelers per week, who at that stage could have been pre-disposed to the virus compared to 0.4million for Australia. That is a huge difference.

Australia brought in their travel ban on the 18th March 2020, we brought our travel restrictions and lockdown on the 23rd March 2020. Australia didn't have a nationwide lockdown, just the quarantine procedures for travellers (nationals) returning to the country. 

Incidentally New Zealand, only brought in 14 day quarantine measures for all countries from the 16th March 2020, however they had restricted travel from other affected countries before that, starting on the 3rd February for China.

We went through a similar process and started quarantining travellers from Wuhan in January.

There wasn't much material difference between those two countries in terms of the process we went through originally. The vast difference comes later on when they keep everyone for the rest of the year and the leaders of all 4 devolved nations (which should be pointed out) as well as the rest of the EU, thought this was all done and dusted and that is where their leaders have made the difference.

If we had followed their lead after the first lockdown we wouldn't be in the position we are now and its also a near certainty that this mutation wouldn't have occurred either. I couldn't believe it when I heard that Scotland eradicated the original virus and then re-imported different strains in the summer. Surely that would have been a massive red flag to introduce a blanket ban.

(Sources - I accept all are not perfect but they do the job for the information they need to show)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51292590

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-53274085

https://concreteplayground.com/sydney/travel-leisure/the-australian-government-has-introduced-an-effective-indefinite-ban-on-all-international-travel

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2021/01/04/a-timeline-of-uk-lockdown-measures-since-the-pandemic-began/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/02/australias-coronavirus-lockdown-the-first-50-days

 

[pete0]

33 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Australia brought in their travel ban on the 18th March 2020, we brought our travel restrictions and lockdown on the 23rd March 2020. Australia didn't have a nationwide lockdown, just the quarantine procedures for travellers (nationals) returning to the country. 

What were our travel restrictions compared to theirs?

[Bailey]

23 hours ago, pete0 said:

What were our travel restrictions compared to theirs?

On outgoings we had advice not to travel unless essential and then quarantines and lock downs for incoming flights. We also organised repatriation flights like most other countries.

Australia only allowed citizens back into the country with a quarantine period and then stages of lock down in different states depending the local restrictions they had in place at the time.

[Bailey]

I just saw this on BBC News and thought it was shocking to say the least:

13:59

Damning indictment on government, says Starmer

Sir Keir says there have been 50,000 deaths in 77 days - calling it a "scarcely believable toll".

He says that "in isolation, any of these mistakes (by the government) are perhaps understandable" but together they show a "damning indictment" on how the government has dealt with this.

The PM has told the Labour leader "now is not the time to ask the question why" - but Sir Keir disagrees.

With the vaccine programme working well, he says, "The way out of this nightmare has been provided" and questions must be answered.

 

 

 

[pete0]

32 minutes ago, Bailey said:

On outgoings we had advice not to travel unless essential and then quarantines and lock downs for incoming flights. We also organised repatriation flights like most other countries.

Australia only allowed citizens back into the country with a quarantine period and then stages of lock down in different states depending the local restrictions they had in place at the time.

Advice. So not even mandatory. The pm even snuck in a holiday before the lockdown and his dad even flaunted how to get around the rules. We also didn't do quarantines, we only advised them. Other countries enforced them and monetary enabled people to do so with they're benefit systems or otherwise.

No defense for us not doing the same as Australia. Do you agree?

[pete0]

 

[MikeO]

Apologies for posting the picture but in this case I think it's justified.

 

[Cornish Steve]

The virus is raging out of control here in Georgia, yet still a large number act as though it doesn't exist. I had reason to visit two stores recently. The first, Target, won't let you in the door without a mask. The other Home Depot, has no such restriction, and I'd say a majority were without a mask. Worse, there was no distancing at all, with unmasked people crowding into the same area, often coughing. It's just plain ridiculous.

Someone we know very well is a nurse in a local ICU treating dangerously ill COVID patients. Again last week, she told us that someone who's close to dying demanded more tests be done because "COVID is just a scam". How do you respond to such willful ignorance?

[markjazzbassist]

1 hour ago, Cornish Steve said:

The virus is raging out of control here in Georgia, yet still a large number act as though it doesn't exist. I had reason to visit two stores recently. The first, Target, won't let you in the door without a mask. The other Home Depot, has no such restriction, and I'd say a majority were without a mask. Worse, there was no distancing at all, with unmasked people crowding into the same area, often coughing. It's just plain ridiculous.

Someone we know very well is a nurse in a local ICU treating dangerously ill COVID patients. Again last week, she told us that someone who's close to dying demanded more tests be done because "COVID is just a scam". How do you respond to such willful ignorance?

It’s awful isn’t it Steve.  I work for a hospital and got my vaccine shot, the doc who administered it said so many people have declined to get it (even medical professionals!).  Doc said a co worker said “I don’t want the micro chip tracking me”. 
 

we live in the age of post-truth.  Such a strange time.

[Romey 1878]

11 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

It’s awful isn’t it Steve.  I work for a hospital and got my vaccine shot, the doc who administered it said so many people have declined to get it (even medical professionals!).  Doc said a co worker said “I don’t want the micro chip tracking me”. 
 

we live in the age of post-truth.  Such a strange time.

He needs to throw his smartphone away then, the daft bastard.

[Matt]

I’m honestly getting to the point where instead of emergency hospitals being setup, we need emergency prisons where these inbred thundercunts can be locked up and charged with manslaughter...

[Hafnia]

6 hours ago, Matt said:

I’m honestly getting to the point where instead of emergency hospitals being setup, we need emergency prisons where these inbred thundercunts can be locked up and charged with manslaughter...

Hartley brewer, le tosser, mcgiffin, Ian brown, Denise squelch, there's a few who need suing. 

Attention seeking pricks who sadly enough if they told their fans that the moon was made of cheese they would believe it. 

[Bailey]

It's good news about the two new vaccines and even better that we have lots on order (assuming they both pass the required standards.)

It is even better news that they have evidence to show that they are effective against the newer strains in the UK and SA. 

[Bailey]

I have a fee more links that might be of interest to people.

Impact on children: 

UK travel scheme: 

 

How S Korea tackled the virus: 

Some mixed news about vaccine effectiveness: 

 

[Hafnia]

The childrens education thing is annoying me.  Finland start kids on a learning syllabus at age 7 and they have great results.

 

Yes, education and socialising with other kids is important but not as important as having a fully functional set of lungs that aren't scarred or a damaged cardiovascular system.    The whole premise that children weren't impacted as much is because of different levels of ace receptors.  The new strain has thrown uncertainty on that.

They need to adapt syllabus/expectations according and if 80% used to get an A, then make it 70% etc.  

I had a shite a level biology teacher and we had to squeeze 2 years a level biology into 1 year when it was discovered she was shit and removed. 

 

Im hearing more and more about long term affects of covid.  My mate thinks he had it early this year and had chest pain months later and it flagged up as bad arteries on his scan, the lad is a fit bloke who doesn't drink of smoke. 

Far too much economic focus on a deadly on potentially life limiting disease for many survivors. 

[Cornish Steve]

27 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

The childrens education thing is annoying me.  Finland start kids on a learning syllabus at age 7 and they have great results.

 

Yes, education and socialising with other kids is important but not as important as having a fully functional set of lungs that aren't scarred or a damaged cardiovascular system.    The whole premise that children weren't impacted as much is because of different levels of ace receptors.  The new strain has thrown uncertainty on that.

They need to adapt syllabus/expectations according and if 80% used to get an A, then make it 70% etc.  

I had a shite a level biology teacher and we had to squeeze 2 years a level biology into 1 year when it was discovered she was shit and removed. 

 

Im hearing more and more about long term affects of covid.  My mate thinks he had it early this year and had chest pain months later and it flagged up as bad arteries on his scan, the lad is a fit bloke who doesn't drink of smoke. 

Far too much economic focus on a deadly on potentially life limiting disease for many survivors. 

My 22-year-old daughter, who had COVID-19 last March, still struggles to walk up a flight of stairs. The impact on her lungs has been significant.

Also, a neighbor of ours, who had COVID-19 in August, after recovering, went out jogging. At the end of his run, he collapsed and died. Apparently, the virus had weakened his heart.

I've heard a local coroner state that many of the virus's victims show evidence of blood clotting and its effect on major organs. This is why it's important to take aspirin, to reduce the amount of micro-clotting caused by the virus.

It really is serious stuff and mustn't be taken lightly.

[Hafnia]

32 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

My 22-year-old daughter, who had COVID-19 last March, still struggles to walk up a flight of stairs. The impact on her lungs has been significant.

Also, a neighbor of ours, who had COVID-19 in August, after recovering, went out jogging. At the end of his run, he collapsed and died. Apparently, the virus had weakened his heart.

I've heard a local coroner state that many of the virus's victims show evidence of blood clotting and its effect on major organs. This is why it's important to take aspirin, to reduce the amount of micro-clotting caused by the virus.

It really is serious stuff and mustn't be taken lightly.

Scary to hear that Cornish.  Hope your daughter gets to full health. A girl I went to school with has damaged optic nerves from it, my wife's colleague has to have dialysis as it attacked his kidneys.

I really wish something could be done about the anarchists/conspiracy theorists who endanger lives.  There is alot of people with blood on their hands, I don't know how they sleep.

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, Hafnia said:

The childrens education thing is annoying me.  Finland start kids on a learning syllabus at age 7 and they have great results.

 

Yes, education and socialising with other kids is important but not as important as having a fully functional set of lungs that aren't scarred or a damaged cardiovascular system.    The whole premise that children weren't impacted as much is because of different levels of ace receptors.  The new strain has thrown uncertainty on that.

They need to adapt syllabus/expectations according and if 80% used to get an A, then make it 70% etc.  

I had a shite a level biology teacher and we had to squeeze 2 years a level biology into 1 year when it was discovered she was shit and removed. 

 

Im hearing more and more about long term affects of covid.  My mate thinks he had it early this year and had chest pain months later and it flagged up as bad arteries on his scan, the lad is a fit bloke who doesn't drink of smoke. 

Far too much economic focus on a deadly on potentially life limiting disease for many survivors. 

Kids in Finland do still go to school before the age of 7, in fact it looks like they start at ages 2 to 3. They just don't do the traditional learning that our kids might In those early years until they get to 7. 

Changing boundaries for grades doesn't help kids education either. It doesn't make kids any more developed as an individual and it makes the grading system obsolete. 

Have you seen any evidence to support long term illness in kids? I haven't see any and cannot find any either. Long covid appears to be something that affects the adult population more than those below it. As I believe it, the older kids are more susceptible.  

Everything I have seen and read is that young people's physical health, mental health, and personal development by not being in school will outweigh any physical effects caused by covid. 

Again the evidence in the summer was that when infection rates in the community were low, so were those in schools. The levels at the moment are way too high for that and I surprised that the Welsh Govt is considering it in a couple of weeks.

My view is that kids need to be the first to go back and I think they need to consider different options rather than everyone being back at once and working the same days if it is possible. They should only go back when the conditions are right though and the decision should not be rushed.

[pete0]

56 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Everything I have seen and read is that young people's physical health, mental health, and personal development by not being in school will outweigh any physical effects caused by covid. 

How can it outweigh death?

[Cornish Steve]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

How can it outweigh death?

As Bailey pointed out, young children don't appear to be much affected by the virus, which is a blessing for sure. They do appear to transmit the disease, though, which is a problem. So far, in the neighboring county to us, three teachers and a schoolbus driver have died, and I hear many anecdotes that verify how schools are spreading the virus. How do we stop that other than, for now, keeping children at home?

Then again, I hear from others, who live in poorer areas of the country, that schools play a major role in detecting, and helping children escape from, abuse at home. For sure, children have died because they've had no way to avoid such abuse. It may not be from the virus, per se, but it is an indirect result. On top of that, there's been a detectable rise in teen suicides, and there's no doubt this is another indirect consequence of schools being closed or interrupted.

The bottom line is that we must contain this virus ASAP. The longer we take, the more will die or suffer long-term effects. The longer we wait, the more time the virus has to mutate and thwart our efforts to overcome it. Due to incompetence among British and American leaders in particular, previous shutdowns were not enforced and weariness has now set in. We can't undo the past, but let's hope competent leaders can get us over the final hurdles and bring about a renewed sense of normality.

[Hafnia]

11 hours ago, Bailey said:

Kids in Finland do still go to school before the age of 7, in fact it looks like they start at ages 2 to 3. They just don't do the traditional learning that our kids might In those early years until they get to 7. 

Changing boundaries for grades doesn't help kids education either. It doesn't make kids any more developed as an individual and it makes the grading system obsolete. 

Have you seen any evidence to support long term illness in kids? I haven't see any and cannot find any either. Long covid appears to be something that affects the adult population more than those below it. As I believe it, the older kids are more susceptible.  

Everything I have seen and read is that young people's physical health, mental health, and personal development by not being in school will outweigh any physical effects caused by covid. 

Again the evidence in the summer was that when infection rates in the community were low, so were those in schools. The levels at the moment are way too high for that and I surprised that the Welsh Govt is considering it in a couple of weeks.

My view is that kids need to be the first to go back and I think they need to consider different options rather than everyone being back at once and working the same days if it is possible. They should only go back when the conditions are right though and the decision should not be rushed.

You got kids Bailey?  Genuine question.

  Lack of evidence on long term effects is because it's still new.  I don't have children to let them join the rat race, I have children to see them grow as humans and 90% of that doesn't involve education or their projected impact into the future economy. 

I've already said that the difference in ace receptors on the first strain were the reason for low child rates, this is bollocks now.  

Finland do continuous provision based learning.  This can be done by attentive parents by simply involving their children in day to day play and task orientation, living in the moment. Something we don't need to throw them into a human Petri dish for.

Like an oncologist told me as he shook his head as to people's attitude that it's a flu " it's going to be a long time till we know everything about this and what it does to the body"

 

 

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

As Bailey pointed out, young children don't appear to be much affected by the virus, which is a blessing for sure. They do appear to transmit the disease, though, which is a problem. So far, in the neighboring county to us, three teachers and a schoolbus driver have died, and I hear many anecdotes that verify how schools are spreading the virus. How do we stop that other than, for now, keeping children at home?

Then again, I hear from others, who live in poorer areas of the country, that schools play a major role in detecting, and helping children escape from, abuse at home. For sure, children have died because they've had no way to avoid such abuse. It may not be from the virus, per se, but it is an indirect result. On top of that, there's been a detectable rise in teen suicides, and there's no doubt this is another indirect consequence of schools being closed or interrupted.

The bottom line is that we must contain this virus ASAP. The longer we take, the more will die or suffer long-term effects. The longer we wait, the more time the virus has to mutate and thwart our efforts to overcome it. Due to incompetence among British and American leaders in particular, previous shutdowns were not enforced and weariness has now set in. We can't undo the past, but let's hope competent leaders can get us over the final hurdles and bring about a renewed sense of normality.

my wife sees alot of teens with mental health issues.   From my understanding there are a few main causes, abuse, medical problems and social media. 

It's obviously a very very serious subject for me to just apply that blanket view but my wife abhors social media and the detriment it has on kids. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

my wife sees alot of teens with mental health issues.   From my understanding there are a few main causes, abuse, medical problems and social media. 

It's obviously a very very serious subject for me to just apply that blanket view but my wife abhors social media and the detriment it has on kids. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

[Hafnia]

54 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55863841

Russell viner said children don't spread it too which was wrong. But at the same time argued that children wearing masks will increase transmission? They either get it and transmit if or they don't 

One of our friends is a teacher who caught it in a school environment,.

He's also neglecting to say that vulnerable children are actually allowed in school and have been for quite some time.

 

Really don't understand his agenda tbh and the thread below shows how he misrepresents data. 

 

 

 

 

[markjazzbassist]

20 hours ago, Bailey said:

It's good news about the two new vaccines and even better that we have lots on order (assuming they both pass the required standards.)

It is even better news that they have evidence to show that they are effective against the newer strains in the UK and SA. 

Which 2?  The Johnson and Johnson and novavox are less effective than the Pfizer and moderna vaccines.  

[Matt]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-55870959
 

this has really pissed me off 

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, Matt said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-55870959
 

this has really pissed me off 

I'll be honest Matt, every game I see players with professional freshly cut hair, Richarlison, Keane and I'm thinking "your wife didnt cut that"

These footy players are like little kids, just grow your hair or clipper it yourself. 

[Matt]

16 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I'll be honest Matt, every game I see players with professional freshly cut hair, Richarlison, Keane and I'm thinking "your wife didnt cut that"

These footy players are like little kids, just grow your hair or clipper it yourself. 

Not the footballer, I mean the barber. Calling him an idiot for posting the photo, because now he’s been rumbled.