Midfield

[MC11]

Is it just me or is this where we are lacking most? Absolutely nothing across the 4 in midfield today. No ball winner in there - something Gomes needs to get on the ball. Wide players none existent.

[markjazzbassist]

4 minutes ago, MC11 said:

Is it just me or is this where we are lacking most? Absolutely nothing across the 4 in midfield today. No ball winner in there - something Gomes needs to get on the ball. Wide players none existent.

we miss gana, he was a ball winner, tackler, just a general nuisance.  gbamin was supposed to be his replacement but he's been injured a bunch.  i expect the CM position to be a big spend position this summer.  On the wings iwobi is awful, terrible signing, he's just a passenger.  gordon did ok for 19 years old, but i would have preferred bernard, it seems carlo doesn't like bernard for some reason, he doesn't play him much.

[MC11]

The lad Allan from Napoli would make a huge improvement in there. I hope reports are true us being in for him

[Btay]

442 makes it hard, we are always outnumbered in the mid and Gomes doesn’t get as much time/space to operate.

Definitely the area we need to improve on - a real physical powerhouse in the middle would be great to partner Gomes ( shame with Gbamin because I think he has that on his locker )

Wingers - is there any danger of us getting someone who looks remotely interested in providing an assist let alone scoring a goal?

[Elston Gunnn]

48 minutes ago, Btay said:

Wingers - is there any danger of us getting someone who looks remotely interested in providing an assist let alone scoring a goal?

Bernard deserves a chance at LW.  Honestly, I’d be happy to see Digne start at LB, then move up to LW at 65-70 minutes (Bernard off then), with Baines in at LB.  Use 4-5 subs each match.

[c1982]

It’d be unfair to judge our wingers on last nights performance in terms of attacking/creativity as it was clear that their main role was to contain - (Mane and TAA) and they did that job really well - we completely cut off the supply line that has dominated pretty much every other team over the past 2 seasons. Wednesday should be a different story and I’d be expecting a very different role from our wingers.

Centre Mid is 100% the most important position to improve this summer - it seems Allan is the top target and he sounds perfect. Last night was probably the most confident I’ve felt with Davies in there (apart from his post 90minute brain farts!) but it’s clear we need someone who will dominate that position and dictate our play.

[Romey 1878]

Gomes and Davies is a shit combination. That was my take from yesterday. But I think we're stuck with it until we get to the transfer window so lets look forward to watching teams waltz through our centre until then.

Iwobi was woeful and Gordon just looked like a rabbit in the headlights tbh.

[StevO]

If anyone watched Wolves at the weekend, Moutinho and Neves showing how a midfield works. And then Traore. Left me with proper midfield envy!

[Btay]

58 minutes ago, StevO said:

If anyone watched Wolves at the weekend, Moutinho and Neves showing how a midfield works. And then Traore. Left me with proper midfield envy!

Quality players - they normally play a 3 in midfield thought with Dendocker?

 

Traore is some player though, just can’t defend that kind of pace and he’s adding consistency to his end product.

[Bailey]

Midfield has been a problem since Barry and McCarthy went down. 

[Palfy]

3 hours ago, Bailey said:

Midfield has been a problem since Barry and McCarthy went down. 

Exactly mate, the we miss Gana brigade is bollocks we are no worse as a team than when he was here, we’ve been shit in midfield for the last few years, and to be honest would he get in a Carlo team with zero ability on the ball, I don’t think so Carlo wants people who can win it and USE it, that lack of his game has been found out at PSG and his days are numbered there. 
We are well rid. 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Such an interesting topic and highlights why continuous managerial changes are so problematic. We have been yo-yo-ing between formations since Martinez left. Walsh and Brands have both had their hits and misses but much of that is tied to formation/style. I'm really hopeful Carlo is here for awhile so we can buy/sell knowing we want to play 442. 

Martinez 4231
Koeman 433
Allardyce 4231
Silva 433
Ancelotti 442

That is a disaster and of course it shows in the midfield more than anywhere else. The same goes for our wingers as well. Bernard, Iwobi, Walcott all better suited for 433. 

I love Davies and Gomes in 433 because they need a deeper player to get stuck in and handle the more challenging defensive assignments. They're both good enough at getting out to the wings to cover opposing fullbacks. Then we don't have to play the outside mids as glorified wing backs. Unless Davies develops as a holding mid he and Gomes are the same player in a 442. Perhaps Gbamin can be that guy - not sure he was bought with 433 in mind as well. Delph is the guy but he's just a terrible player. 

442 is best because it allows our best player by a country mile, Richarlison, to have the largest impact on the game. He was too isolated in Silva's system. Much of that because Siggy disappeared from planet earth. So disappointing. 

 

[markjazzbassist]

well said @AlbanyNYToffee, i hadn't realized every manager was a different formation!  what a cluster.  i agree i hope carlo is around for a long time.

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Such an interesting topic and highlights why continuous managerial changes are so problematic. We have been yo-yo-ing between formations since Martinez left. Walsh and Brands have both had their hits and misses but much of that is tied to formation/style. I'm really hopeful Carlo is here for awhile so we can buy/sell knowing we want to play 442. 

Martinez 4231
Koeman 433
Allardyce 4231
Silva 433
Ancelotti 442

That is a disaster and of course it shows in the midfield more than anywhere else. The same goes for our wingers as well. Bernard, Iwobi, Walcott all better suited for 433. 

I love Davies and Gomes in 433 because they need a deeper player to get stuck in and handle the more challenging defensive assignments. They're both good enough at getting out to the wings to cover opposing fullbacks. Then we don't have to play the outside mids as glorified wing backs. Unless Davies develops as a holding mid he and Gomes are the same player in a 442. Perhaps Gbamin can be that guy - not sure he was bought with 433 in mind as well. Delph is the guy but he's just a terrible player. 

442 is best because it allows our best player by a country mile, Richarlison, to have the largest impact on the game. He was too isolated in Silva's system. Much of that because Siggy disappeared from planet earth. So disappointing. 

 

Silva claimed that was his favoured formation but I don’t think we ever truly saw it. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Such an interesting topic and highlights why continuous managerial changes are so problematic. We have been yo-yo-ing between formations since Martinez left. Walsh and Brands have both had their hits and misses but much of that is tied to formation/style. I'm really hopeful Carlo is here for awhile so we can buy/sell knowing we want to play 442. 

Martinez 4231
Koeman 433
Allardyce 4231
Silva 433
Ancelotti 442

That is a disaster and of course it shows in the midfield more than anywhere else. The same goes for our wingers as well. Bernard, Iwobi, Walcott all better suited for 433. 

I love Davies and Gomes in 433 because they need a deeper player to get stuck in and handle the more challenging defensive assignments. They're both good enough at getting out to the wings to cover opposing fullbacks. Then we don't have to play the outside mids as glorified wing backs. Unless Davies develops as a holding mid he and Gomes are the same player in a 442. Perhaps Gbamin can be that guy - not sure he was bought with 433 in mind as well. Delph is the guy but he's just a terrible player. 

442 is best because it allows our best player by a country mile, Richarlison, to have the largest impact on the game. He was too isolated in Silva's system. Much of that because Siggy disappeared from planet earth. So disappointing. 

 

Formations aside, a half decent player under a half decent manager should be able to fit in and play in any system. If they can't it shows they lack something between the ears which means they should have been bought anyway. 

IMO that's why Barry and McCarthy were so good. They were both well rounded players who understood the game. Gomes is the closest thing since then but like Barry he lacks pace and also a partner. The players that have been and gone, or still around, aren't fit to lace their boots.

[StevO]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

Exactly mate, the we miss Gana brigade is bollocks we are no worse as a team than when he was here, we’ve been shit in midfield for the last few years, and to be honest would he get in a Carlo team with zero ability on the ball, I don’t think so Carlo wants people who can win it and USE it, that lack of his game has been found out at PSG and his days are numbered there. 
We are well rid. 

Somehow, even when he has been found out at PSG, they picked him 31 times this season. Including 20 of their 27 league games and 6 of their 8 champions league games. 
I’m sure he’s doing just fine. 
 

whilst looking up how he’s getting on (don’t watch any other leagues) I saw in the champions league alone (two games against Real Madrid and two against Dortmund included) he managed 92% passing accuracy, not bad for a player who’s no good on the ball. Add to that 27 ball recoveries. I’d love a midfield player who can win the ball back and give it to a team mate. I’m sure his team mates appreciate it. 

[StevO]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

Formations aside, a half decent player under a half decent manager should be able to fit in and play in any system. If they can't it shows they lack something between the ears which means they should have been bought anyway. 

IMO that's why Barry and McCarthy were so good. They were both well rounded players who understood the game. Gomes is the closest thing since then but like Barry he lacks pace and also a partner. The players that have been and gone, or still around, aren't fit to lace their boots.

McCarthy and Barry really were a great pairing. The best thing they did for our team was giving Baines and Coleman so much freedom with their cover, added to their uncomplicated passing and work rate. The one disappointing thing from their time was that Barkley didn’t do more with them two behind him. 

[Palfy]

17 minutes ago, StevO said:

Somehow, even when he has been found out at PSG, they picked him 31 times this season. Including 20 of their 27 league games and 6 of their 8 champions league games. 
I’m sure he’s doing just fine. 
 

whilst looking up how he’s getting on (don’t watch any other leagues) I saw in the champions league alone (two games against Real Madrid and two against Dortmund included) he managed 92% passing accuracy, not bad for a player who’s no good on the ball. Add to that 27 ball recoveries. I’d love a midfield player who can win the ball back and give it to a team mate. I’m sure his team mates appreciate it. 

It did start well for him granted, but please read some of his last game reports and stats, a flavour of which is what use is a player to a team when his only attribute to a team has dried up, after being substituted in his last CL game at half time. 
There’s no smoke without fire, why do you think the stories in the French press are circulating that he is free to leave, one even suggests to come back here, god forbid, and him making a statement that he doesn’t want to leave, and he is prepared to try and fight for his place in the team.

Mediocracy always gets found out in the end, and eventually it’s caught up with him at PSG. 

[StevO]

12 hours ago, Palfy said:

It did start well for him granted, but please read some of his last game reports and stats, a flavour of which is what use is a player to a team when his only attribute to a team has dried up, after being substituted in his last CL game at half time. 
There’s no smoke without fire, why do you think the stories in the French press are circulating that he is free to leave, one even suggests to come back here, god forbid, and him making a statement that he doesn’t want to leave, and he is prepared to try and fight for his place in the team.

Mediocracy always gets found out in the end, and eventually it’s caught up with him at PSG. 

His last champions league game was the second leg against Dortmund. He played the whole game. He also played the first leg too. 
When they played Real Madrid away they took him off at half time. But to be fair, they were 1-0 down and brought on Neymar. So I’d be pretty certain it was a tactical decision. 
 

I don’t think anything has caught up with him, other than playing all of their big games and picking up a couple of medals. 

[Bailey]

13 hours ago, StevO said:

McCarthy and Barry really were a great pairing. The best thing they did for our team was giving Baines and Coleman so much freedom with their cover, added to their uncomplicated passing and work rate. The one disappointing thing from their time was that Barkley didn’t do more with them two behind him. 

Completely agree about Barkley. He had the platform to go on a be anything in a blue shirt. He hasn't done bad for himself mind you but the sky looked the limit.