Crystal Palace (Home) Monday 5 April

[c1982]

9 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Tonight’s result wasn’t because of a poor midfield it was because of poor finishing, and trying to defend a one goal lead with 20 minutes to play, the hardest opportunity was finished by James one opportunity and taken and that’s difference between quality and just good. 

Maybe not tonight but in general. Once again though, we didn’t have control of a game we should have.

[Palfy]

37 minutes ago, Matt said:

Win our game in hand and we’re 5th. I know we all like to think it’s the end of the season and call relegation when we drop points but the table doesn’t lie. 
 

Absolutely got to stop dropping these points, but I’m not writing anything off yet. 

Mathematically that’s correct, but what do you see in us that’s going to get us across the line, remembering we still have Spurs Arsenal Man City and West Ham to play who as I am writing this have just gone 3-0 up against Wolves, I don’t think we will get to 7th why because we haven’t got goals in the team, and when you look at the table of goals scored we are in 11th I think no where near 5th, so what do you think we have to get there besides a mathematical possibility, trust me I want to as much as anyone here so give me something to believe in that we have as a team to get there. 

[Romey 1878]

6 minutes ago, c1982 said:

Maybe not tonight but in general. Once again though, we didn’t have control of a game we should have.

We don't ever control games, it's a huge problem.

[c1982]

1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

We don't ever control games, it's a huge problem.

I agree - that’s what I’m saying, we signed Doucoure, Allan and James to help us control games - they’ve barely played together.

[Romey 1878]

Just now, c1982 said:

I agree - that’s what I’m saying, we signed Doucoure, Allan and James to help us control games - they’ve barely played together.

To be honest, I only think James allows us control. I've been a bit underwhelmed with Allan and Doucoure doesn't look after the ball well enough for me.

[johnh]

1 hour ago, c1982 said:

Tonight has been one of the only occasions where we’ve missed clear chances all season - I think we’re statistically the most clinical team in the league based on the xG data. I agree, finishing was poor tonight, but it’s not been a season-long trend.

Not sure what this tells us?  All the teams above us in the league have scored more goals than us and two teams below us have scored more.  Does 'clinical' include missed chances?

The most depressing thing about the missed chances was that for 3 of them there was only the goalie to beat but the goalie didn't have to make a save as the shot went straight at him and hit him. There is no excuse for that from a Premiership striker. For the Aguero's and Kane's of this world, the ball would have settled neatly in the corner of the goal.

[c1982]

8 minutes ago, johnh said:

Not sure what this tells us?  All the teams above us in the league have scored more goals than us and two teams below us have scored more.  Does 'clinical' include missed chances?

It tells us that we don’t create many clear chances but, when we do, we usually finish them.

I can’t recall any games (bar the first few) when we’ve had chances like tonight - the game should have been killed off - no question.

[nyblue23]

Today’s match was mad disappointing but all the hate for Richy and DCL is pretty appalling. They were terrible finishers today and they have to be better, but it’s not like they didn’t play with desire. That goal was down to Godfrey being out of position and Keane making a terrible decision to close down the ball when another Everton player was much closer, leaving a massive hole between he and Godfrey.
 

It’s our defenders who consistently look like they lose the plot at the end of matches, and that comes from desire. Holgate looked like he actually wanted to play today, so that was nice to see, but Keane had a shocker.

[Gwlad]

Absolutely hate to say this but has Dom lost the will, is he going to be lured away? We saw what happened with Rooney when GNev (allegedly had a word in his shell-like).

[Bailey]

Whilst there were clearly individiual poor decisions that led to the equaliser, that back line was atrocious. Mina not tight enough, Keane in no mans land, Godfrey out of position and Holgate/Digne guilty of dropping in too deep. 

They werent helped by the mess in midfield either.

The lack of organisation and leadership in this side is epitomised by that one passage of play. 

[Btay]

Just watched the match.

Frustrating, definitely a game in which we should have won.

Is it fair to question Carlo? If you had told me before the game we would have 3 1v1’s, an open 2v1 counter and 2/3 free headers on goal I wouldn’t think we were set up defensively at all.

Dom and Richy will know they have lost points here. Their goal was disappointing, not sure how much more Olsen can do as it’s a good finish, Keane steps into an area that completely took himself out the game and Holgate is looking across the line keeping everyone on. Amateur defending.

[jofanon]

How did Gbamin get on?

[Romey 1878]

29 minutes ago, jofanon said:

How did Gbamin get on?

Ancelotti decided he was coming on, someone told him to get ready to come on, Ferguson held up the board to say he was coming on and then he ran on to the pitch with a big smile on his face.

[Shukes]

Hahaha ffs love it.

[Matt]

18 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

Ancelotti decided he was coming on, someone told him to get ready to come on, Ferguson held up the board to say he was coming on and then he ran on to the pitch with a big smile on his face.

Bravo  

[Romey 1878]

30 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Hahaha ffs love it.

 

23 minutes ago, Matt said:

Bravo  

I needed something to make me feel better about last night .

One other thing - at least we created chances to fuck up. In a lot of our recent games we've not looked threatening at all.

[Wiggytop]

Cold light of day and all that guff this morning, I’m still disappointed, but we had an off day in front of goal, should have had a hat full. Other teams do the same, yeah Kane and Salah etc are good finishers but they don’t score with every shot.

[Shukes]

50 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

 

I needed something to make me feel better about last night .

One other thing - at least we created chances to fuck up. In a lot of our recent games we've not looked threatening at all.

This is exactly my thoughts. I’m more annoyed when we don’t produce anything.

Richie missed sitters, but put himself into position to have six chances. DCL missed an absolute stinker of a chance.

Another day we could have been 3-0 up.

[Tonsta]

Whats disappointing is not only the missed chances, but our results against, Fulham, Burnley, Newcastle, etc anyone in the bottom third of the league, it has been abysmal.

[Bailey]

12 hours ago, Bailey said:

Whilst there were clearly individiual poor decisions that led to the equaliser, that back line was atrocious. Mina not tight enough, Keane in no mans land, Godfrey out of position and Holgate/Digne guilty of dropping in too deep. 

They werent helped by the mess in midfield either.

The lack of organisation and leadership in this side is epitomised by that one passage of play. 

I have just watched this goal back again and I was maybe a little unfair on some. The brief highlights are here:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtK4QAczAN2mt2ow_jlGinQ

The goal starts around 1.37.

First point to note is that there is no pressure on the ball. I know Milivojevic isn't Pirlo but you don't give any player that much time and space in this league. Davies yet again does his nonchalant line dancing shuffle towards him but even at the time the ball is passed, he is still 5+ yard away.

As for the rest, it is important to look at what is going on with the other midfielders and back 5. Godfrey has followed Zaha infield (good) but there is clear confusion between him and Siggy as to who should pick him up. In the end this slows Godfrey getting back into position and ends up leaving Zaha completely free for the entire move of the goal. I urge you all to watch it as it is an impressive example of how not to defend a 1-0 lead from the person who was wearing the captains armband at the time.

Gbamin is marking space. You can see he has an eye on Eze and he is aware of the run behind him. He does his job.

The confusion starts by the movement on Mateta and Schlupp. Holgate starts by passing on Mateta to Mina and edging towards Schlupp. Keane has his eye on Batshuayi and Digne is cover. So far so good. Then something happens which stops Holgate going towards Schlupp and he just leaves him all alone and drops back onto Mateta. This leaves Schlupp with acres of space in between our back line and our disgraceful midfield shape. Mina does the right thing by trying to get out to Schlupp but its too late, Keane has to keep his eye on Schlupp, Zaha and Batshuayi so he is pinned to that position. It might not look pretty but he has been forced into that position by the poor play of others. There is enough space for the ball into Batshuayi and Godfrey cant get back in position to stop the shot. If you haven't watched Siggy throughout the goal, just look at where he is when the ball hits the back of the net and then look at Zaha. Also look for Davies, oh wait, don't bother as he isn't in shot. James' defensive effort was bad enough in this game but I half expect it. I don't expect it from Siggy and Davies, they should be training with the U23's this week.

This scenario happened a few times during the game. I think Shukes commented in the thread that Mina had come out to the attacker, got nowhere near and was then out of the line. This goal was a small snapshot of why that happened and it was only really because Palace are a poor side that they didn't make more of the positions they got themselves into. The midfield was a mess, with little to no pressure on the ball, there didn't appear to be anyone leading that back line and they also clearly weren't prepared enough for what was to come and then they didn't adapt during the game. Palace are one of the narrowest teams in the league. Ayew is more of a striker and Eze comes inside every time. Only PVA gets forward. Playing a back 5 and not pressing aggressively in the middle of the pitch with the 'spare' CB (mainly Holgate and Keane) was going to leads to moments like this where they could pass through us quite easily. Just to enforce that, Palace had 18 touche in our box compared to our 8 (excluding shots). We had only 3 interceptions and 3 tackles in their half and whilst we made 9 total recoveries in the first half, that dropped to 5 in the second half as we sat deeper and became even more passive. This is compounded by how poor Palace are at developing the ball through defence and midfield and how much easier we should have shut them down. In the Spurs v Palace game, Spurs won 9 tackles and made 7 interceptions in Palace's half and limited Palace to 5 touches (excluding shots) in their box. I am not a fan of Mourinho's set up, but it shows how much more effective they were at restricting a very average Palace side.

The positives in this game are that we did find a way to create some really good chances and we should have been home and hosed but they were very much one off attacks and if you turned on the game and watched an odd 20-30 minutes, you wouldn't have known who was the better side.

[pete0]

 

Two banks of four. Mina could do with being a yard forward and Richarlison is scrambling back into position, Sigurdsson slotting in for Godfrey. Not much wrong.

Bit of miscommunication between Godfrey and Sig for which one to follow their number 11. Gbamin doesn't react quick enough to stop the pass. Palace striker has swapped from Mina to Holgate, which helped us as it freed Mina to go to the ball.

Michael Keane, not for the first time, has completely marauded out of position, leaving his man free and 100% at fault for the goal. 

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, pete0 said:

 

Two banks of four. Mina could do with being a yard forward and Richarlison is scrambling back into position, Sigurdsson slotting in for Godfrey. Not much wrong.

Bit of miscommunication between Godfrey and Sig for which one to follow their number 11. Gbamin doesn't react quick enough to stop the pass. Palace striker has swapped from Mina to Holgate, which helped us as it freed Mina to go to the ball.

Michael Keane, not for the first time, has completely marauded out of position, leaving his man free and 100% at fault for the goal. 

Holgate should have stayed with Schlupp as he started to do with Digne in cover and filling in a traditional LB position.

No-one is near Schlupp and he is the main danger. Middle of goal and 5 yards of space in all angles. That cannot happen. As soon as a player has that much time and space it causes reactions. Mina tries to react and so does Keane. It should never have come to that.

Out of interest Pete, I presume you would want Keane to stay with Batshuayi? If so, who picks up Zaha? Who picks up Schlupp if he rounds Mina? 

Keane has three men to cover and if the others had done what they should have done then he would not have had to leave Batshuayi. 

 

[Matt]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

Holgate should have stayed with Schlupp as he started to do with Digne in cover and filling in a traditional LB position.

No-one is near Schlupp and he is the main danger. Middle of goal and 5 yards of space in all angles. That cannot happen. As soon as a player has that much time and space it causes reactions. Mina tries to react and so does Keane. It should never have come to that.

Out of interest Pete, I presume you would want Keane to stay with Batshuayi? If so, who picks up Zaha? Who picks up Schlupp if he rounds Mina? 

Keane has three men to cover and if the others had done what they should have done then he would not have had to leave Batshuayi. 

 

Well clearly Keane should’ve followed all three, because if it had played out that one of the others was responsible for scoring, Pete would still find a way to blame Keane. 
 

By the way, Pete. That “bit of miscommunication between Godfrey and Siggy” forces Keanes hand to react. 

[pete0]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

Holgate should have stayed with Schlupp as he started to do with Digne in cover and filling in a traditional LB position.

No-one is near Schlupp and he is the main danger. Middle of goal and 5 yards of space in all angles. That cannot happen. As soon as a player has that much time and space it causes reactions. Mina tries to react and so does Keane. It should never have come to that.

Out of interest Pete, I presume you would want Keane to stay with Batshuayi? If so, who picks up Zaha? Who picks up Schlupp if he rounds Mina? 

Keane has three men to cover and if the others had done what they should have done then he would not have had to leave Batshuayi. 

 

Batshuayi is Keane's man. It is much safer to let schlupp striker from outside the box than leave a striker completely unmarked in the box and even worse create the space for the pass to him. 

If Mina wasn't there Keane would have a decision to make. But he is there. Absolutely no reason for Keane to budge.

Zaha should have been picked up by Sigurdsson or Godfrey and if that resulted in the goal I'd be blaming them. 

Who would cover if Mina gets rounded? Are you having a laugh? You think centre backs should just cover each other and risk leaving a player completely free in the box?

[pete0]

15 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well clearly Keane should’ve followed all three, because if it had played out that one of the others was responsible for scoring, Pete would still find a way to blame Keane. 
 

By the way, Pete. That “bit of miscommunication between Godfrey and Siggy” forces Keanes hand to react. 

Not at all. He had one player to mark in his own box. No excuse for him being rash and going to the player Mina was.

Keane isn't reacting to Zaha, he heads straight to schlupp. 

[Btay]

13 hours ago, pete0 said:

 

Two banks of four. Mina could do with being a yard forward and Richarlison is scrambling back into position, Sigurdsson slotting in for Godfrey. Not much wrong.

Bit of miscommunication between Godfrey and Sig for which one to follow their number 11. Gbamin doesn't react quick enough to stop the pass. Palace striker has swapped from Mina to Holgate, which helped us as it freed Mina to go to the ball.

Michael Keane, not for the first time, has completely marauded out of position, leaving his man free and 100% at fault for the goal. 

It’s poor from Keane, he’s done it on occasions. Schlupp was covered by Mina albeit eventually. Biggest concern is Gylfi hasn’t moved an inch while you look at the ground Godfrey covered in these moments. Ball watching again. Poor goal to concede that should have been easily avoided.

[Romey 1878]

47 minutes ago, Btay said:

 Biggest concern is Gylfi hasn’t moved an inch while you look at the ground Godfrey covered in these moments. 

What's fucking new? It really is horrifying that there's talk of extending his time with us.

[Bailey]

On 07/04/2021 at 08:54, Btay said:

It’s poor from Keane, he’s done it on occasions. Schlupp was covered by Mina albeit eventually. Biggest concern is Gylfi hasn’t moved an inch while you look at the ground Godfrey covered in these moments. Ball watching again. Poor goal to concede that should have been easily avoided.

The point about this is the word "eventually". That implies an element of hindsight which Keane didn't have at the time.

I agree it was a very simple goal that could have been easily avoided by any number of individuals.

[Hafnia]

On 07/04/2021 at 09:42, Romey 1878 said:

What's fucking new? It really is horrifying that there's talk of extending his time with us.

Ah but did he point though? 

[Wiggytop]

On 09/04/2021 at 19:54, Hafnia said:

Ah but did he point though? 

I see your point