Frank Lampard

[Btay]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

How was it avoidable, you have no evidence to prove that if we played a full strength team in the cup the outcome in both games wouldn't have been the same, how about this for an excuse instead of Lampard letting the team and players down, it could be better argued that team and players let the manager down. 

 

8 hours ago, Hafnia said:

Players had been knocking on lampards door to ask for game time, they got game time and stunk the gaff out.  Hopefully these will be exited in January/not get contracts renewed. 

Nail on the head here lads. Frank is no mug and he will know who he can trust and who he can’t. Recruitment & minutes this year have shown that. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

7 minutes ago, Btay said:

 

Nail on the head here lads. Frank is no mug and he will know who he can trust and who he can’t. Recruitment & minutes this year have shown that. 

Do you not think he maybe threw some players under the bus whilst confirming who he should already know who he can and can not trust?

The likes of Garner and Patterson won’t have enjoyed being exposed to a humiliating deafest like that

Im not for one minute absolving the players in the abject failure but he set the team up to fail and that’s surely on him?

 

[Btay]

2 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Do you not think he maybe threw some players under the bus whilst confirming who he should already know who he can and can not trust?

The likes of Garner and Patterson won’t have enjoyed being exposed to a humiliating deafest like that

Im not for one minute absolving the players in the abject failure but he set the team up to fail and that’s surely on him?

 

Not at all. No player would enjoy that result - you would hope. Those lads in particular need all the minutes they can get.

He still sent out a team in which every player has decent premier league experience, it’s not like it was a team of under 21’s. For them to get turned over 4-1 by a weaker Bournemouth side is the indication that they simply aren’t good enough to be first team players. Mina, Keane, Holgate, Doucoure & Davies in particular. 

[Gwlad]

I think it shows we still have to get rid of the dross who are past it and can't work their socks off for the shirt.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

9 minutes ago, Btay said:

Not at all. No player would enjoy that result - you would hope. Those lads in particular need all the minutes they can get.

He still sent out a team in which every player has decent premier league experience, it’s not like it was a team of under 21’s. For them to get turned over 4-1 by a weaker Bournemouth side is the indication that they simply aren’t good enough to be first team players. Mina, Keane, Holgate, Doucoure & Davies in particular. 

My point is that we didn’t send out a team , we chucked out eleven lads who were mostly misfits or players struggling for fitness or form in a formation they were not used to and then some people were somehow surprised by the outcome 

There can be no debate that Frank threw the first game, the only debate is whether or not it effected the league game. IHMO it did but not in the the way Frank or any of us wanted it to

[Btay]

Just now, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

My point is that we didn’t send out a team , we chucked out eleven lads who were mostly misfits or players struggling for fitness or form in a formation they were not used to and then some people were somehow surprised by the outcome 

 

I agree with this to an extent.

Holgate, Mina & Keane have played together for what 4 years now? Vinagre & Patterson suit the wing back role. Every player played in their preferred positions. Garner looked the best of the midfielders and he has had the least time to adapt to his team mates & tactics. Maupay & Gordon would have played together regardless & need the minutes to get a better understanding of one other.

I completely accept there may be a lack of cohesion but the players I suspect knocked on his door asking for minutes took the absolute piss that performance. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

36 minutes ago, Btay said:

I agree with this to an extent.

Holgate, Mina & Keane have played together for what 4 years now? Vinagre & Patterson suit the wing back role. Every player played in their preferred positions. Garner looked the best of the midfielders and he has had the least time to adapt to his team mates & tactics. Maupay & Gordon would have played together regardless & need the minutes to get a better understanding of one other.

I completely accept there may be a lack of cohesion but the players I suspect knocked on his door asking for minutes took the absolute piss that performance. 

How many times have we played with a back five of Holgate, Mina. Keane, Vinagre and Patterson ? How many minutes of those lads had between them this season?

My point is it was a massively disjointed team that was set up to fail. If players are knocking on the door demanding a chance then if you really want to give them that chance then don’t throw them under the bus, put them into a team/system where they all know what their role is and where everyone else also does 

You can’t change an entire eleven and system then expect that to be the case 

 

 

 

 

[Palfy]

25 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Do you not think he maybe threw some players under the bus whilst confirming who he should already know who he can and can not trust?

The likes of Garner and Patterson won’t have enjoyed being exposed to a humiliating deafest like that

Im not for one minute absolving the players in the abject failure but he set the team up to fail and that’s surely on him?

 

Keane, Mina, Holgate, Doucoure and Gordon were all regular 1st teamers last season they could hardly be called misfits or inexperienced with each other. Patterson is our No1 RB. Garner, Maupay and McNeil are new signings who need game time. That leaves Begovic,Vinagre and Davies, I wouldn't say Begovic could have done much more, Vinagre is probably not good enough for this level, but he is our No2 LB and maybe Mykolenko had a niggle or needed a rest. Davies cares and it showed he was probably our better player on the night, not hard maybe but still true. The players didn't put the hard work in in both games, Bournemouth proved hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard. 

[Btay]

19 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

How many times have we played with a back five of Holgate, Mina. Keane, Vinagre and Patterson ? How many minutes of those lads had between them this season?

My point is it was a massively disjointed team that was set up to fail. If players are knocking on the door demanding a chance then if you really want to give them that chance then don’t throw them under the bus, put them into a team/system where they all know what their role is and where everyone else also does 

You can’t change an entire eleven and system then expect that to be the case 

 

 

 

 

I see your points and I respect them, I really do.

Connor Coady - has played 3 at the back for nearly 40 years, walks into a new centre back partnership and plays now with a flat 4. Hasn’t looked out of place at all.

I would understand and agree with you if it was a 2-1 loss but sheer lack of desire shown by a handful of those players is disgusting. It’s what has seen us fall to where we are.

The only silver lining I can take from the 2 results against Bournemouth is if it’s made it crystal clear to the board we need to move 3/4 on in January & replace them competently.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Keane, Mina, Holgate, Doucoure and Gordon were all regular 1st teamers last season they could hardly be called misfits or inexperienced with each other. Patterson is our No1 RB. Garner, Maupay and McNeil are new signings who need game time. That leaves Begovic,Vinagre and Davies, I wouldn't say Begovic could have done much more, Vinagre is probably not good enough for this level, but he is our No2 LB and maybe Mykolenko had a niggle or needed a rest. Davies cares and it showed he was probably our better player on the night, not hard maybe but still true. The players didn't put the hard work in in both games, Bournemouth proved hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work 

Ok let’s replace misfit for not good enough. Keane, Mina( not fit enough), Holgate , Doucoure and on recent performances Gordon are not good enough, you’ve agreed Vinagre also isn’t good enough 

Davies was horrendous and missed a sitter that had he put away we may have been having a different discussion. Patterson and Garner fall into the inexperienced category

If you want to bed Maupay and McNeil in then maybe give them a chance by putting them into a settled team / system ?

 

[Btay]

Just now, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Ok let’s replace misfit for not good enough. Keane, Mina( not fit enough), Holgate , Doucoure and on recent performances Gordon are not good enough, you’ve agreed Vinagre also isn’t good enough 

Davies was horrendous and missed a sitter that had he put away we may have been having a different discussion. Patterson and Garner fall into the inexperienced category

If you want to bed Maupay and McNeil in then maybe give them a chance by putting them into a settled team / system ?

 

We’re in an out and out relegation scrap though. The second game was always priority and yes, maybe he did a few too many changes but that team still should have been competitive. We shouldn’t have suffered a demoralising loss which affected the weekend because we still have a seriously fragile mentality.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

2 minutes ago, Btay said:

We’re in an out and out relegation scrap though. The second game was always priority and yes, maybe he did a few too many changes but that team still should have been competitive. We shouldn’t have suffered a demoralising loss which affected the weekend because we still have a seriously fragile mentality.

The point is he definitely  made too many changes, not just in personnel but in formation, which led to the demoralising loss in both games

 

[Palfy]

36 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

Ok let’s replace misfit for not good enough. Keane, Mina( not fit enough), Holgate , Doucoure and on recent performances Gordon are not good enough, you’ve agreed Vinagre also isn’t good enough 

Davies was horrendous and missed a sitter that had he put away we may have been having a different discussion. Patterson and Garner fall into the inexperienced category

If you want to bed Maupay and McNeil in then maybe give them a chance by putting them into a settled team / system ?

 

The league game was as strong as a team he could have put out playing in the recognised 433 system, which we had been playing most games in. You've got one of the best keepers in the league back in goal, you also have one of the meanest back 4s in the league back playing together, you then have the 3 best MFs at the club playing, with 2 regular wide men and your only first team available striker. Tell me who and what system you would have played in that game?

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

8 hours ago, Palfy said:

The league game was as strong as a team he could have put out playing in the recognised 433 system, which we had been playing most games in. You've got one of the best keepers in the league back in goal, you also have one of the meanest back 4s in the league back playing together, you then have the 3 best MFs at the club playing, with 2 regular wide men and your only first team available striker. Tell me who and what system you would have played in that game?

I think you are missing my point. I’m saying that by throwing the cup game he eased the pressure on Bournemouth, who had lost 4 on the spin, and gave their players and fans a much needed boost in confidence and morale whilst at the same time doing the exact opposite to our players and fans

 Before that last week we had indeed looked solid and the team had shown plenty of resilience yet as soon as Bournemouth scored we folded like a pack of cards

Before that last week Lampard had the fan base onside and had them chanting his name by the end of it they were booing him and giving him and the players abuse

It will have been the same fans who had made the long trip to Bournemouth in midweek only to find the club couldn’t be arsed with the competition that went back there a few days later. Tensions were already high before a ball was kicked in the league game so as soon as we went behind the atmosphere was toxic

[StevO]

Our second string getting beat by Bournemouth’s second string, shouldn’t have that much of an effect on a game between our first 11 against Bournemouth’s first 11. If it did it leaves me more concerned about the players mindset than the manager.

[Bailey]

16 hours ago, Btay said:

 

Nail on the head here lads. Frank is no mug and he will know who he can trust and who he can’t. Recruitment & minutes this year have shown that. 

Personally I would be just as concerned, if not more concerned by the performance of the first team. At least they have been playing week in, week out and still crumbled where as the misfits you kind of expect it.

15 hours ago, Btay said:

Not at all. No player would enjoy that result - you would hope. Those lads in particular need all the minutes they can get.

He still sent out a team in which every player has decent premier league experience, it’s not like it was a team of under 21’s. For them to get turned over 4-1 by a weaker Bournemouth side is the indication that they simply aren’t good enough to be first team players. Mina, Keane, Holgate, Doucoure & Davies in particular. 

Out of curiosity, do you think say playing a Tarkowski or a Coady in that one game with the rest of the squad around it would have changed anything?

 

14 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

How many times have we played with a back five of Holgate, Mina. Keane, Vinagre and Patterson ? How many minutes of those lads had between them this season?

When they have played together it hasn't ended well either!

[Palfy]

4 hours ago, Bailey said:

Out of curiosity, do you think say playing a Tarkowski or a Coady in that one game with the rest of the squad around it would have changed anything?

 

19 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

No not at all no one player can cover the lack of effort from 7 or 8 players, would have made no difference with both of them playing. 

[KinL]

18 hours ago, Btay said:

Connor Coady - has played 3 at the back for nearly 40 years, walks into a new centre back partnership and plays now with a flat 4. Hasn’t looked out of place at all.

 

He looks well for his age

[RuffRob]

9 hours ago, StevO said:

Our second string getting beat by Bournemouth’s second string, shouldn’t have that much of an effect on a game between our first 11 against Bournemouth’s first 11. If it did it leaves me more concerned about the players mindset than the manager.

I agree, think players need to look at themselves it that game. To me too many players seemed distracted by either World Cup or packing their bags for a trip to Australia, a lot of lackluster performances. 

[Bailey]

4 hours ago, Palfy said:

No not at all no one player can cover the lack of effort from 7 or 8 players, would have made no difference with both of them playing. 

So which players were really that bad and which ones were dragged down by the rest? 

[Billwelshblue]

We need both creativity and a striker. We don't make chances FL needs to look at the system too we need to see some improvement when we come back otherwise there could be big trouble ahead

[BedfordBlue]

He's got to go, just stands on the touchline looking clueless. 

[dunlopp9987]

Nope. Even if it means we go down, I'm sticking by him. 1) because I will lose my fucking mind if we change managers again and 2) if we go down, maybe this club will finally be forced to have a reckoning and fix the rot

[Hafnia]

18 minutes ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Nope. Even if it means we go down, I'm sticking by him. 1) because I will lose my fucking mind if we change managers again and 2) if we go down, maybe this club will finally be forced to have a reckoning and fix the rot

This squad of players should be playing much better than this.  We don’t look like we have been coached well. That’s my problem. 

[BedfordBlue]

They are getting worse rather than better 

 

 

[Boston Toffee]

We aren't much better off than we were with Benitez 

[c1982]

9 minutes ago, Boston Toffee said:

We aren't much better off than we were with Benitez 

We are worse off than last season really - we had Richarlison last season - we have no one anywhere near his ability now.

[Romey 1878]

So many stupid decisions by him today.

Having Mina anywhere near the side, the unreliable piece of shite. Launching the ball up to Maupay all game. Subbing Gueye off. Having Cannon ready to come on and then backtracking on it for the best part of 10 minutes. To then bring him on in place of Maupay when it should have been in place of the quite frankly fucking useless Onana and go with two up top.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Thought he got it all wrong again today. We were overrun in midfield and neither of our wingers were contributing anything to the game, and lumping the ball up to Maupay is completely pointless

When he did make subs they were too late and were like for like when the formation clearly wasn’t working

I thought he should have thrown Tom Cannon on at half time and gone 442

Scary times ahead, we are well and truly in another relegation dogfight but this time we have Richarlison to score the goals to get us out of it

 

[Hafnia]

Sorry to say this….. he’s got to go.   I don’t see anything from him tactically or coaching wise that makes me think he’s got it.   Gutted to think this as I really like the fella and admire the way he goes about his business.