Frank Lampard

[StevO]

9 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

They don’t have to. It’s highly unlikely Frank or Moshiri will see your post in here but they most definitely heard and saw the reaction of the fans at the game

He had the fans onside but his stupidity this week has I think used up any goodwill towards him

It probably is too early to sack him, unless they had someone of the calibre of Tuchel or Pochettino lined up but I think he is now on very thin ice 

That’s only 1500 fans at one game. 

He may have lost those in Bournemouth yesterday, and he may have lost you, but that’s not everyone  

Even the online fans aren’t that heavily against him, and they are usually the loudest. 
 

 

[Bailey]

5 hours ago, RPG said:

No argument that our defence and midfield are not playing well at the moment but how much of that is down to the fact that their game is affected by the fact that we have a very poor attack remains to be seen. That may explain why they are playing sideways and backwards, passes are going astray because forwards aren't showing etc.

If players are playing balls backward and sideways, that is due to how the side has been set up tactically. 

We are set up to protect the back 4 and that impacts and detracts from how we attack teams. 

Problem is with the defenders we have, you start playing more aggressive attacking football, you would expose them. 

Lampard made a decision to play this way and bought players to fit that template (I actually think he wanted to play with a back 5 until that didnt work). 

[Matt]

13 minutes ago, Bailey said:

If players are playing balls backward and sideways, that is due to how the side has been set up tactically. 

We are set up to protect the back 4 and that impacts and detracts from how we attack teams. 

Problem is with the defenders we have, you start playing more aggressive attacking football, you would expose them. 

Lampard made a decision to play this way and bought players to fit that template (I actually think he wanted to play with a back 5 until that didnt work). 

If you have actual outlets up front, the midfield won't always play backwards because they'll have an attacking option. We just don't have that outlet and that's putting the back 6 under constant pressure. 1 striker and a creative attacking midfielder instantly transforms the whole dynamic of the team. The world Cup break might actually have done us a massive favour as its a lot less games to struggle through and buys time to get those 2 players in beginning of January.

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Bailey said:

If players are playing balls backward and sideways, that is due to how the side has been set up tactically. 

We are set up to protect the back 4 and that impacts and detracts from how we attack teams. 

Problem is with the defenders we have, you start playing more aggressive attacking football, you would expose them. 

Lampard made a decision to play this way and bought players to fit that template (I actually think he wanted to play with a back 5 until that didnt work). 

How does that work with Maupay as your target man for the punt up field, he may not be your favourite manager, but he's not a football imbecile, meaning you don't go out and buy a player like Maupay if you're intention is to play the long ball. The problem he has with playing a more fluid and expansive game are Gana and Onana who constantly give the ball away, also Gray O'Neil and Gordon who do nothing when in possession of the ball. I maybe wrong but I don't think any manager mentioned to take over would do any better with the players at their disposal. 

[c1982]

36 minutes ago, Matt said:

If you have actual outlets up front, the midfield won't always play backwards because they'll have an attacking option. We just don't have that outlet and that's putting the back 6 under constant pressure. 1 striker and a creative attacking midfielder instantly transforms the whole dynamic of the team. The world Cup break might actually have done us a massive favour as its a lot less games to struggle through and buys time to get those 2 players in beginning of January.

This - but make that 2, 3!

[Gwlad]

Signing Maupay worked if we had a fit DCL.

[Bailey]

26 minutes ago, Matt said:

If you have actual outlets up front, the midfield won't always play backwards because they'll have an attacking option. We just don't have that outlet and that's putting the back 6 under constant pressure. 1 striker and a creative attacking midfielder instantly transforms the whole dynamic of the team. The world Cup break might actually have done us a massive favour as its a lot less games to struggle through and buys time to get those 2 players in beginning of January.

I really disagree. Maupay was an outlet for Brighton. Dom is an outlet and Rondon, kind of is too. 

Our creative attacking midfielder is Iwobi. 

I really doubt we will see another striker better than Dom or Maupay. 

17 minutes ago, Palfy said:

How does that work with Maupay as your target man for the punt up field, he may not be your favourite manager, but he's not a football imbecile, meaning you don't go out and buy a player like Maupay if you're intention is to play the long ball. The problem he has with playing a more fluid and expansive game are Gana and Onana who constantly give the ball away, also Gray O'Neil and Gordon who do nothing when in possession of the ball. I maybe wrong but I don't think any manager mentioned to take over would do any better with the players at their disposal. 

He doesn't need to be a target man. I agrees that if we could play through midfield, we wouldnt need to pump aimless balls upfield time and time again. 

Lampard brought on Gueye and Onana. He knew what they were all about when he gave them the green light. 

He is playing those 3 mentioned, signed one and stopped another being sold. He also plays them really narrow and mostly cutting inside and he makes us so much easier to mark. It was a feature of his Chelsea team too and it hampered their attacking potential too. To make it easier to play through the midfield, we need to make the pitch as wide as possible. The only problem with that is it makes you less solid at the back as there is more space to be counter attacked.

I disagree and I go back to my point the other day in that Iwobi aside, no-one else has improved under Lampard. 

[Bailey]

Just now, Gwlad all over said:

Signing Maupay worked if we had a fit DCL.

Because that means Maupay sits on the bench?

[RuffRob]

On 12/11/2022 at 21:50, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

This time last week I would have agreed, but when a manager loses the crowd it only ends one way

Maybe I’m still too angry and will see it differently once the dust settles but I want a manager who wants to win every game

So far he has pretty much had a free pass just because he is not Rafa Benitez and he was perceived as getting the club however the last 7 days have proven he doesn’t get the match going fans and I think it might just cost him his job

If we sack him the cycle just goes on and I get that but how far do we go before we call it a day?

After the Palace game I thought we had turned the corner but that’s starting to look like another false dawn 

I don’t suppose there is ever a perfect time to sack a manager but if they are going to do it the time is now, then the new manager has 6 weeks before his first game and the window opens three games games after that

This is ridiculous, talking of sacking the manager 15 games in to a new regime. 

He had one hand tied behind his back in the summer transfer window, on a squad needing a complete overhaul. 

He's had to do without DCL for best part of the season. 

Fan turning so soon on him are just as much of a problem as anything else that goes on at this club. A complete lack of looking at the bigger picture.

I have massive respect at this time for Arsenal purley for sticking with Arteta as there manager. They didn't set the world on fire from day 1 with him at the helm, and at one stage he looked a dead man walking. It's been a slow burn for Arsenal, but they are benefit  from it now. 

There is a plan, there are signs of the right mentality players coming.

Lampard is attracting players to sign for us, what signal does sacking Lampard send to the young lads he has recruited - 10 games or so after the came to the club.

To me Lampard looks a intelligent fella, I dont think has some blinkered playing philosophy, he has an idea of how he wants us to player, but will be flexible to modify this if needs must, he is leaning on the job. Tactically he will improve, I don't doubt that. He is not the finished article as a manager by any means. However, I think given time he could become a very good manager.

 

 

[Palfy]

21 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I disagree and I go back to my point the other day in that Iwobi aside, no-one else has improved under Lampard. 

Pickford has if not for his performances last season under Lampard we would be in the Championship, Patterson and Mykolenko have come on under Lampard, Gordon had but since his link with Chelsea he has lost it, not Lampard's fault that he couldn't handle the pressure or disappointment, bar Gray who hasn't improved there's no one who he inherited who plays on regular basis. 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, RuffRob said:

This is ridiculous, talking of sacking the manager 15 games in to a new regime. 

He had one hand tied behind his back in the summer transfer window, on a squad needing a complete overhaul. 

He's had to do without DCL for best part of the season. 

Fan turning so soon on him are just as much of a problem as anything else that goes on at this club. A complete lack of looking at the bigger picture.

I have massive respect at this time for Arsenal purley for sticking with Arteta as there manager. They didn't set the world on fire from day 1 with him at the helm, and at one stage he looked a dead man walking. It's been a slow burn for Arsenal, but they are benefit  from it now. 

There is a plan, there are signs of the right mentality players coming.

Lampard is attracting players to sign for us, what signal does sacking Lampard send to the young lads he has recruited - 10 games or so after the came to the club.

To me Lampard looks a intelligent fella, I dont think has some blinkered playing philosophy, he has an idea of how he wants us to player, but will be flexible to modify this if needs must, he is leaning on the job. Tactically he will improve, I don't doubt that. He is not the finished article as a manager by any means. However, I think given time he could become a very good manager.

 

 

I really disagree with the Arsenal comparison as its lazy. 

When Arteta joined Arsenal you could see from the very early days that there was a philosophy and a plan. You could see the work on the training ground had been put in. Unfortunately it just wasn't clicking for them. He had problems behind the scenes with certain players and his way of playing takes time to get across for a young coach in his first management job. He also won the FA Cup that first season. 

Every time there is an argument for a coach not to be sacked it goes back to Arteta. Yes the board did well not to buckle to the fan pressure because there were points when they could have pulled the trigger and the fans would have been happy to see him go but the actual work behind the scenes and even on match day were clear to see even if it wasn't always producing results. 

That is not the same for Lampard at the moment. I'm not saying there wont be a time when you start seeing that progress from the training ground to the pitch but at the moment, apart from putting lots of men behind the ball, it just isn't there. I actually don't really know how Lampard wants us to play. Arteta succeded because he does have a blinkered philosophy that he stuck to and the board backed him. At the moment, Lampard seems confused about how he wants to set out his team.

There is a massive difference between the two coaches and their situations. 

1 hour ago, Palfy said:

Pickford has if not for his performances last season under Lampard we would be in the Championship, Patterson and Mykolenko have come on under Lampard, Gordon had but since his link with Chelsea he has lost it, not Lampard's fault that he couldn't handle the pressure or disappointment, bar Gray who hasn't improved there's no one who he inherited who plays on regular basis. 

Pickford was playing well under Benitez.

Patterson and Mykolenko can't be compared anyway because they didn't really play before he came in but neither are setting the world on fire.

Gordon had a small improvement when be came into the team but has gone straight back down to the original levels (started at the end of last season IMO).

The reason they don't play anymore is because they haven't improved. Based on the other night Doucoure, Davies, Mina, Holgate and Keane are just as bad, if not worse than they were before. 

The new signings are all starting to dip as well. Almost everyone came in and started playing at a better level than they are now. 

In the interest of balance, Richarlison played well under Lampard. He really stood up at the end of last season. 

There will always be some that thrive and some that struggle under a new manager, but after almost a seasons worth of games in charge, there aren't many that have thrived under his management. 

[Matt]

9 hours ago, Bailey said:

I really disagree. Maupay was an outlet for Brighton. Dom is an outlet and Rondon, kind of is too. 

Our creative attacking midfielder is Iwobi. 

I really doubt we will see another striker better than Dom or Maupay. 

He doesn't need to be a target man. I agrees that if we could play through midfield, we wouldnt need to pump aimless balls upfield time and time again. 

Lampard brought on Gueye and Onana. He knew what they were all about when he gave them the green light. 

He is playing those 3 mentioned, signed one and stopped another being sold. He also plays them really narrow and mostly cutting inside and he makes us so much easier to mark. It was a feature of his Chelsea team too and it hampered their attacking potential too. To make it easier to play through the midfield, we need to make the pitch as wide as possible. The only problem with that is it makes you less solid at the back as there is more space to be counter attacked.

I disagree and I go back to my point the other day in that Iwobi aside, no-one else has improved under Lampard. 

Of course you disagree. You think Rondon is an attacking outlet. I stopped ready after that, laughing too much. 

[patto]

I’m surprised nobody has put the Guardian article up about the club. 

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, Bailey said:

The reason they don't play anymore is because they haven't improved. Based on the other night Doucoure, Davies, Mina, Holgate and Keane are just as bad, if not worse than they were before. 

The reason they don't play anymore is because better players have taken their places, Most have had long term injuries but the biggest reason they don't improve is down to them, either they've reached the top of their abilities, or they lack the fight to regain their place. A manager can't be held responsible for the lack of ability of players he has inherited. Mykolenko played a lot of games under Lampard last season and has improved as time goes on, Pickford as improved since Benitez, not just in ability but in belief and has been rewarded with greater responsibility as a reward for his performances and improvement. Bailey you are very blinkered and only see what suits your narrative. Some laugh as above, I just despair in disbelief at some of the things you say. Never mind we wall more than likely all be here saying the same shit for many years to come God willing. 

[Tonsta]

13 hours ago, c1982 said:

Excellent manager now - they’ve struck gold with Emery because how you described them is the complete opposite to Gerard’s Villa.

I agree but is that relevant after 2 games, we have had years with different managers and not fought like that.

 

Its much more deep rooted with us, i would not be surprised if Frank was told to play a 2nd string side, by the owners who are probably in talks with RM now, to take over at xmas. Its changes at the top we need.

[RuffRob]

12 hours ago, Bailey said:

I really disagree with the Arsenal comparison as its lazy. 

 

Just because you disagree, doesn't mean people comments are lazy - it a condescending comment.

Arteta at Arsenal - He went through a very rough patch as Arsenal manager with a period of pretty poor results and media and plenty of Arsenal fans saying he's not up to the job and should be sacked and replaced. Arsenal stood by him, didn't make a knee jerk reaction and bottle it. he was given a fair amount of time and transfer windows, and Arsenals patience has paid off, and as a club they have a better team for it.

I was not comparing Arteta and Lampard as managers or their footballing philosophies and abilities - I am purely making the observation that it takes more 15 games and a single transfer window to turn a club around and the club and the club should take a note out of Arsenals books and give a manager a proper chance and not crack every time there are a run of bad results or some unrest in the fanbase . .  

 

[StevO]

13 hours ago, patto said:

I’m surprised nobody has put the Guardian article up about the club. 

Then why didn’t you?

[Bill]

What is it. ?

[StevO]

Just now, Bill said:

What is it. ?

No idea. No one posted it.

[Bill]

[MikeO]

28 minutes ago, Bill said:

What is it. ?

Was posted in the stadium thread....

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/13/everton-football-club-new-stadium-bramley-moore-dock

[patto]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

Then why didn’t you?

If I could I would but I can’t so I don’t. 
plus if I put coal on it would be upside down on here. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-everton-board-make-pivotal-frank-lampard-sack-decision/

[plaidharper]

Just really hoping Frank can be pragmatic like towards the end of last season.

He came in and was tactically naïve, changed it up, and we survived just.  He needs to realize we are in the exact same position as last year.  He was hoping with new signings he could implement a style of play but we are not there yet.  Needs more windows to do that.  The league is tougher this year.  No Norwichs adrift.  You have to ask what teams are worse than Everton and well Bournemouth just waxed us twice in a week... so it is not looking good at all.

If we sacked Frank and brought in a relegation specialist, there is no way they would last in the long term.  If Morshiri got involved and brought in a Hollywood appointment, even if they saved us, would they stay long term? Probably not ala Ancelotti.  With those two categories of managers out of the running, who is left and are they really any better?  Links with Bielsa? No way that would work out. Ange? No PL experience.  Frank has gotten us out before though just barely. 

So makes sense to stick with.  Come February and he can't be pragmatic enough to realize how shite we are then maybe... He is already calling the players out in pressers.  So he knows.  Just show us on the field tactically vs throwing the players under the bus.

Also hope Thelwell is working on getting players lined for January now vs starting in January.

 

[plaidharper]

15 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

Just really hoping Frank can be pragmatic like towards the end of last season.

And by pragmatic I mean scrap this Gana as the sole sitter/pivot silliness.  Not only do we need another body back there for protection and helping us play the ball out, but Onana works better deeper.  No clue why he changed things up after the Crystal Palace win.  Maybe wants Onana to contribute more goals and is pushing him further?  That might make the smallest amount of sense with DCL out but he changed to this system before he was hurt so....

[RuffRob]

He has got to try different things with this set of players, especially to try and give use something more further up the pitch. Perhaps he wanted to tweak a few different formations ahead of this prolonged break he is about to have. The coaching staff can have a good hard look at what has worked and what has not. 

Given so many of our players came relatively late in the transfer window, missing out on another forward player and the DCL problem, I always though we might limp a bit up to this World Cup break and its proved to be that way. So am I surprised we are where we are? not really.

I would rather see a proper foundation laid down team wise - rather than some flash in the pan false dawn (Like maybe the Ancelotti and Benitez starts to seasons we have seen). 

I would rather see a slow start, with a steady and proper improvement over the whole season. Something that can be built on transfer window after transfer window.

The next 4 games are big as we should be winning 3 of these . 

[Finn balor]

We’ve got wolves with a new top manager then city. If he is still here for the wolves game then the “board” are backing him. I like Frank, really want him to succeed but it’s a results business 

[Matt]

Ridiculous that this is even a discussion. 

[Btay]

I think we’ve got to give him the January window to get some more bodies in. Gordon & Mcneil have the potential to be good wingers in this league but at the moment they don’t contribute enough goals/assists - it may come though. Gray just doesn’t contribute enough goals/assists for his talents.

I fully expect us to be able to negotiate with Chelsea to get Broja on loan (perhaps an option to buy as well) with Frank here. Add another winger who has goals & assists in him and that completely changes the dynamic of our team.

[plaidharper]

20 minutes ago, Btay said:

I think we’ve got to give him the January window to get some more bodies in. Gordon & Mcneil have the potential to be good wingers in this league but at the moment they don’t contribute enough goals/assists - it may come though. Gray just doesn’t contribute enough goals/assists for his talents.

I fully expect us to be able to negotiate with Chelsea to get Broja on loan (perhaps an option to buy as well) with Frank here. Add another winger who has goals & assists in him and that completely changes the dynamic of our team.

McNeil needs to learn how to use his right foot before I would say he has potential.