Arouna Kone

[Matt]

name that up and coming striker for £6m.

Anichebe

 

 

[Shukes]

Ye 6m doesn't seem to get you a lot these days but our fans still see us as a selling club... Get that put of your heads, we paid 27 mil for Lukaku to fire us into the top four not so we can sell him for 30+

 

We don't need to sell players anymore. If Kone can come up with ten goals this season alongside Lukaku's twenty then Rm will look a genius.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

My main criticism of the Kone signing was the 6m price we paid for him, the guys 30 years old and will have absolutely no sell on value. he's had a few decent seasons across Europe but has done nothing to justify a 6m price tag. he cost Wigan 2.5m the seasn we signed him also. Him getting injured was unfortnate but he's just after gettign a very serious knee injury, who knows what sort of a player we'll be getting back if he gets fit. 6m a ridiculous price for him, lazy signing from martinez, very much the same way as the alcaraz and robles signings haven't done anything to bolster our squad. with 6m we should have invested in an up and coming striker who we can develop. 6m is alot of money, can't see kone developing any more atfer reaching his age and after his knee injury.

 

I think that's fair comment really

 

I wouldn't say he was shit and I think he could be a useful squad filler, no more no less

[Hafnia]

My main criticism of the Kone signing was the 6m price we paid for him, the guys 30 years old and will have absolutely no sell on value. he's had a few decent seasons across Europe but has done nothing to justify a 6m price tag. he cost Wigan 2.5m the seasn we signed him also. Him getting injured was unfortnate but he's just after gettign a very serious knee injury, who knows what sort of a player we'll be getting back if he gets fit. 6m a ridiculous price for him, lazy signing from martinez, very much the same way as the alcaraz and robles signings haven't done anything to bolster our squad. with 6m we should have invested in an up and coming striker who we can develop. 6m is alot of money, can't see kone developing any more atfer reaching his age and after his knee injury.

 

The same could have been said about Distin - we bought him aged 31 for £5m - no one knew he was going to go on for years.

 

Man United paid £22.5m for a 29 year old with a dubious injury record - Van Persie hasn't been a bad signing has he?

 

£6m for a striker who scored double figures for a relegated team, who averages a 1 in 3 goal record is not a lazy signing. Martinez knew all about him - was signing James McCarthy lazy or was it astute?

 

Alcaraz was a free signing on lower wages, who is a more than capable replacement for Heitingas "squad/bench position". When fit he has proven a capable defender. Robles is a young lad who we signed for a low fee.

 

I'm really not too sure why there is so much dislike towards Kone.

[Steve_E]

I think a lot of the hate he got was down to people hating Martinez's appointment and all of the Wigan players the press was linking us to. I remember people were shitting on him after the Cup game where he failed to score twice. And it'd be fine if the criticisms had centered on that. But all rationality went out the window and it became the worst all-around performance ToffeeTalk had ever seen, though in reality he had been linking play up brilliantly, like fantastically well without a bad touch all game almost.

 

But he's had 7 professional seasons with more than 10 goals a game. Most recently 11 league goals for Wigan and 15 in Spain for Levante the season before that. And his scoring isn't even his most valuable trait. He's a strong and quick athlete with good close control and excellent positional sense. You'll find some impressive finishing in his goals for Wigan as well:

 

 

He's got international and Champions League experience as well. PSV payed Roda €10m total to get him in 2005, Sevilla payed PSV €12m to get him in 2007. He's most definitely not shit. I'd be happy to have him as the back up striker. The trouble is he's apparently still 2 months away from playing again and who knows how long it'll take before he has any build up form after being out for almost an entire year. That's why we should still be looking for another centre forward. I wouldn't mind taking a punt on Samuel Eto'o on a Bosman btw.

[Lowensda]

Its the use of selective stats that support a single argument that make me laugh.

 

Its like using Afonso Alves' Herenveen record to justify a premier league move (which he obviously didn't live up to).

 

"But this one time, he got into double figures!!" - Ignoring the 1 goal in 40 for Sevilla, or the 11 in 32 for Lierse...but wait, we can't say that was a good record because its the Belgium league and when Lukaku played there, the Belgium league was the easiest league to score in because its apparently terrible, anybody should score there, so actually the 1 in 3 record holds little weight in this argument...

[gethinO]

Finish vs Reading was top notch! Yeah, to be fair, he definitely deserves a chance and hopefully he can prove that he's a very capable player.

[Steve_E]

Its the use of selective stats that support a single argument that make me laugh.

 

Its like using Afonso Alves' Herenveen record to justify a premier league move (which he obviously didn't live up to).

 

"But this one time, he got into double figures!!" - Ignoring the 1 goal in 40 for Sevilla, or the 11 in 32 for Lierse...but wait, we can't say that was a good record because its the Belgium league and when Lukaku played there, the Belgium league was the easiest league to score in because its apparently terrible, anybody should score there, so actually the 1 in 3 record holds little weight in this argument...

 

I don't know whether you're talking to me or not, he hasn't got into double figures just once. He's done it in over half a decade of professional football and basically in every season he's been fit. I also never said Lukaku's record in Belgium is irrelevant and the overall defensive approach of the majority of Belgian teams means that scoring there is harder than scoring more goals in Holland.

 

Afonso Alves did have the talent to make it in the Premier League btw, it was the lack of desire and his becoming lazy and fat once he made his big move that prevented his success.

[Lowensda]

Not at you Steve.

 

Here's who said it. In response to an Info-graphic.

 

As I stated, it's hardly a robust statistic to establish his status amongst the world's elite.

He scored 35 or so for anderlecht from 16 whilst the others were playing for clubs competing at a higher level.

There could be someone 17 years old who bangs in 30 goals a season for TNS in the Welsh league.

It looks a really impressive stat till you scratch beneath the surface. Don't wanna piss on bonfires and stuff as it's been a big signing and many young fans probably feel like I did when we signed kanchelskis.

 

A statistic used to support Kone but to undo Rom's record?

 

Years Team Apps^† (Gls)^†

2001–2002 Rio Sport 30 (17)

2002–2003 Lierse 32 (11)

2003–2005 Roda 63 (27)

2005–2007 PSV 53 (21)

2007–2012 Sevilla 40 (1)

2010 → Hannover 96 (loan) 8 (2)

2011–2012 → Levante (loan) 34 (15)

2012 Levante 0 (0)

2012–2013 Wigan Athletic 33 (11)

2013– Everton 5 (0)

 

And back to the video Steve, half were good finishes, give him credit. The other half, scrappy tap-ins that you'd expect your defenders to knock in.

Edited August 13, 2014 by tenaciousj

[Hafnia]

Its the use of selective stats that support a single argument that make me laugh.

 

Its like using Afonso Alves' Herenveen record to justify a premier league move (which he obviously didn't live up to).

 

"But this one time, he got into double figures!!" - Ignoring the 1 goal in 40 for Sevilla, or the 11 in 32 for Lierse...but wait, we can't say that was a good record because its the Belgium league and when Lukaku played there, the Belgium league was the easiest league to score in because its apparently terrible, anybody should score there, so actually the 1 in 3 record holds little weight in this argument...

 

He was played on the right for Sevilla and how many of his 40 apperarances were for more than 10 minutes at a time? When he went to Levante they had to drop him as if he scored more than 18 goals he would have to return to Sevilla - he was finding the net with ease.

 

Its far easier to find a strong argument to say "lets give him a chance" - rather than say "Nah he's garbage".

 

I will actually judge him on what I seen in a Wigan shirt and say this - "he is a very capable player who can operate anywhere across the forward line, he is strong holds the ball up very well, can beat a man and has pace..."

 

Too many people have been extremely quick with their judgements of the lad. You would think he's Andy Van Der Meyde

[Lowensda]

Right, fine. I don't think he'll add much to the season.

 

Really don't think he's that good. Come the end of the season, I permit vaulting.

 

Happy to be proven wrong, have a feeling i'll be proven right.

[Hafnia]

Not at you Steve.

 

Here's who said it. In response to an Info-graphic.

 

 

A statistic used to support Kone but to undo Rom's record?

 

Years Team Apps^† (Gls)^†

2001–2002 Rio Sport 30 (17)

2002–2003 Lierse 32 (11)

2003–2005 Roda 63 (27)

2005–2007 PSV 53 (21)

2007–2012 Sevilla 40 (1)

2010 → Hannover 96 (loan) 8 (2)

2011–2012 → Levante (loan) 34 (15)

2012 Levante 0 (0)

2012–2013 Wigan Athletic 33 (11)

2013– Everton 5 (0)

 

And back to the video Steve, half were good finishes, give him credit. The other half, scrappy tap-ins that you'd expect your defenders to knock in.

 

The point I used that stat was for the 35 goals Lukaku scored playing for the best team in a poor league which helped him get that 60 odd goals by 21 years of age which some were using ahead of Messi etc etc.

 

We are now talking about a £6m striker who has scored in dutch league and spanish league who is needing support in order just to be considered a decent back up striker - not a £28m record signing who some are proclaiming will be worth £50m in a year or so.

 

Isn't it funny, we are looking to criticise a player who cost £22m less than a player who gets plaudits for scoring 15 goals two seasons in a row, whereas the victim in this case is having his 11 goals for a relegated team dismissed.

[Kant]

To be honest with the man, I remember back in 2007 when Sevilla signed Koné he was meant to be a promising young player who could become a world beater. Then the guy tore his ACL twice, and in 2010 his confidence was shot since he became a forgotten man in Sevilla. He went to Hannover to regain fitness, and then he was a massive success for Levante in a historical season for them (they were playing with 9 defenders and Koné was the counter attacking outlet. Obafemi Martins and Felipe Caicedo also excelled in that role).

 

Then he went to Wigan, a side with great intent but no quality whatsoever and the worst defenders I have ever seen playing in the PL (Alcaraz was the best of the bunch, but he was always injured and he's slow and prone to silly mistakes a la Bramble). In Wigan Koné was OK to be fair, it's not that Wigan generated lots of chances. McCarthy was the only good player in that team, and players like Shaun Maloney and McManaman were punching above their level but that team was poor.

 

As you could see, Koné's goals come from scrambles or nice through balls from midfield. This is why I think he's not suited to the playing style RM is implementing. Everton play -or try- posession football, slow build-up and quick combinations in the final third. Koné is a proper counter attacking player, fast and reliable when 1 on 1 with the keeper, but he is neither a fox in the box nor a great header of the ball, and he does not have a powerful shot, so I struggle to see him as a decent no. 9 for this team. He can contribute as a right winger making runs behind the centrebacks, but that is a limited role or a substitute role.

 

If I was Martinez, I would still try to get another striker (acquired or on loan, don't care), and it should not necessarily be Lacina Traoré. I'm quite sure David Villa is available for six months on loan before the MLS starts, qatari/chinese clubs have usually decent players that Everton can try to lure and any young striker coming from the Brazilian/Argentinian league should not be expensive either. Also, Martinez can take a look at misfits in other high-profile clubs like he did last year with Lukaku (for example: Valencia wants to offload Jonas, Banega and Postiga). There are other big players available in Brazil too, but they might be unaffordable (i.e.: Alexandre Pato). I guess that depends on the club's finances, and I must admit I have no idea of the financial situation of the club.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Kant

[Romey 1878]

Villa isn't available, he's gone on loan to Melbourne I think it is.

[Steve_E]

To be honest with the man, I remember back in 2007 when Sevilla signed Koné he was meant to be a promising young player who could become a world beater. Then the guy tore his ACL twice, and in 2010 his confidence was shot since he became a forgotten man in Sevilla. He went to Hannover to regain fitness, and then he was a massive success for Levante in a historical season for them (they were playing with 9 defenders and Koné was the counter attacking outlet. Obafemi Martins and Felipe Caicedo also excelled in that role).

 

Then he went to Wigan, a side with great intent but no quality whatsoever and the worst defenders I have ever seen playing in the PL (Alcaraz was the best of the bunch, but he was always injured and he's slow and prone to silly mistakes a la Bramble). In Wigan Koné was OK to be fair, it's not that Wigan generated lots of chances. McCarthy was the only good player in that team, and players like Shaun Maloney and McManaman were punching above their level but that team was poor.

 

As you could see, Koné's goals come from scrambles or nice through balls from midfield. This is why I think he's not suited to the playing style RM is implementing. Everton play -or try- posession football, slow build-up and quick combinations in the final third. Koné is a proper counter attacking player, fast and reliable when 1 on 1 with the keeper, but he is neither a fox in the box nor a great header of the ball, and he does not have a powerful shot, so I struggle to see him as a decent no. 9 for this team. He can contribute as a right winger making runs behind the centrebacks, but that is a limited role or a substitute role.

 

If I was Martinez, I would still try to get another striker (acquired or on loan, don't care), and it should not necessarily be Lacina Traoré. I'm quite sure David Villa is available for six months on loan before the MLS starts, qatari/chinese clubs have usually decent players that Everton can try to lure and any young striker coming from the Brazilian/Argentinian league should not be expensive either. Also, Martinez can take a look at misfits in other high-profile clubs like he did last year with Lukaku (for example: Valencia wants to offload Jonas, Banega and Postiga). There are other big players available in Brazil too, but they might be unaffordable (i.e.: Alexandre Pato). I guess that depends on the club's finances, and I must admit I have no idea of the financial situation of the club.

 

You're forgetting that Koné already excelled in a Martinez side and that Wigan had lots of possession, in part because he's an excellent outlet for forward passes that will keep the ball in the team. You'll find that lots of Lukaku's goals (or simply any striker's goals) are from counter attacks as well.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

 

The same could have been said about Distin - we bought him aged 31 for £5m - no one knew he was going to go on for years.

 

Man United paid £22.5m for a 29 year old with a dubious injury record - Van Persie hasn't been a bad signing has he?

 

£6m for a striker who scored double figures for a relegated team, who averages a 1 in 3 goal record is not a lazy signing. Martinez knew all about him - was signing James McCarthy lazy or was it astute?

 

Alcaraz was a free signing on lower wages, who is a more than capable replacement for Heitingas "squad/bench position". When fit he has proven a capable defender. Robles is a young lad who we signed for a low fee.

 

I'm really not too sure why there is so much dislike towards Kone.

 

 

To be fair Distin is a superb athlete with a very good injury record and had years of experience in the Premiership and so was never really a gamble, where as Kone has had plenty of injury problems and when you factor in that we lose him to the ACON then its nowhere near as good a deal

 

Van Persie is world class - enough said

 

Alcaraz has been a waste of a wage because he is never fit

 

Robles I must admit I thought was going to be a great signing but so far he has been a massive disappointment, but I suppose he is still young and could come good. I think he needs to go out on loan but then we wouldn't have cover

[MC11]

I thought he was shit before he came to Everton, before we were even linked to him so just because he now plays (that in itself being comical ) for us doesn't change my opinion.

He ain't shit though mate. He had a shite 4 years at Sevilla. But his record everywhere else is near enough 1: 2

[Bailey]

You're forgetting that Koné already excelled in a Martinez side and that Wigan had lots of possession, in part because he's an excellent outlet for forward passes that will keep the ball in the team. You'll find that lots of Lukaku's goals (or simply any striker's goals) are from counter attacks as well.

 

I agree with everything you have said in your last few posts on here. His link up play is excellent, how anyone can just class him as a counter attacking striker is beyond me. Yes he can do it but he can also play the possession game too.

 

He should have scored his chances in the games he played but people seem to overlook that he managed to be involved in an incredibly high amount of goal scoring opportunities given his limited time on the field. His worldwide goal scoring record shows that he knows where the back of the net is and combined with his around play he could prove to be a huge asset in this team, especially in those games where Lukaku will generally struggle to impose himself and creating chances is difficult.

 

I just hope for the lad that he can get fit and stay fit so he can show what he can do. Regarding the fee, various reports range from 4.5mil to 6 mil do if he was bought in for £4.5mil the I think that is good business.

[markjazzbassist]

 

where as Kone has had plenty of injury problems and when you factor in that we lose him to the ACON then its nowhere near as good a deal

Dunc he quit international football. We won't miss anyone to acon this year.

[Paddock]

He ain't shit though mate. He had a shite 4 years at Sevilla. But his record everywhere else is near enough 1: 2

That's your opinion mate and I have mine. I happen to think he's shit it doesn't mean you have to think he is as well.

 

He'll be lucky to get us ten goals a season, Anichebe got us there and there about that and we sold him. He was shit as well in my opinion but at least he was already ours and was probably on less wages.

[MC11]

If he gets even close to 10 goals as a backup striker I'll be made up. Problem is he won't play many minutes if Rom is fit. He's defo not shit though. Someone like Velios is shit.

[Paddock]

If he gets even close to 10 goals as a backup striker I'll be made up. Problem is he won't play many minutes if Rom is fit. He's defo not shit though. Someone like Velios is shit.

I meant as our main striker but never mind. We all have different opinions on players..

[Bailey]

That's your opinion mate and I have mine. I happen to think he's shit it doesn't mean you have to think he is as well.

 

He'll be lucky to get us ten goals a season, Anichebe got us there and there about that and we sold him. He was shit as well in my opinion but at least he was already ours and was probably on less wages.

 

I presume you mean 10 goals a season as a starting striker? Why do you think he wouldnt do that with us considering he could do that at Wigan (and most clubs he has played for)?

[Paddock]

 

I presume you mean 10 goals a season as a starting striker? Why do you think he wouldnt do that with us considering he could do that at Wigan (and most clubs he has played for)?

Firstly he has had. 2 really bad knee injuries now. Not sure if it 's the same knee or both, secondly, he's no spring chicken. Those coupled together means as a starting striker we probably would be lucky to get half a season out of him but regardless of this, he scored 14 (i think it was) for Wigan. People are saying it was a poor side and it was but only defensively. Going forward they were playing some decent football and creating plenty of chances that season but they were so poor at the back they went down.

 

Saying he scored 14 in a shit team is all well and good but if Wigan had had a better striker would they of stayed up?

 

I've nothing against the lad, and I would be happy to see him do well here but he (in my eyes) is an older Anichebe. Not in the same style they're both very different types of forwards but in terms of what you get as and end product in terms of goal return.

 

It was 6 million wasted in my eyes and if he wasn't playing for us and people didn't have the blue tinted specs on as much they would see him as a below average to par journeyman because that's what he is.

 

I'd love him to prove me wrong this season but I doubt he will.

[Hafnia]

Vitor Pereira was seen by many as the next manager for Everton and those who wanted him thought Martinez would get us relegated.

 

Same logic as those who write off kone, just a bit of guess work.

[Bailey]

Firstly he has had. 2 really bad knee injuries now. Not sure if it 's the same knee or both, secondly, he's no spring chicken. Those coupled together means as a starting striker we probably would be lucky to get half a season out of him but regardless of this, he scored 14 (i think it was) for Wigan. People are saying it was a poor side and it was but only defensively. Going forward they were playing some decent football and creating plenty of chances that season but they were so poor at the back they went down.

Saying he scored 14 in a shit team is all well and good but if Wigan had had a better striker would they of stayed up?

I've nothing against the lad, and I would be happy to see him do well here but he (in my eyes) is an older Anichebe. Not in the same style they're both very different types of forwards but in terms of what you get as and end product in terms of goal return.

It was 6 million wasted in my eyes and if he wasn't playing for us and people didn't have the blue tinted specs on as much they would see him as a below average to par journeyman because that's what he is.

I'd love him to prove me wrong this season but I doubt he will.

You would have to assume that he is going to be fit enough to play as a starting striker in this scenario. Even with his previous knee injury he was playing week in week out for Wigan with no problems.

 

Again you say they created a lot of chances and therefore he should have scored the goals he did but how without too many real creative players how did they come about creating those chances? Kone was a big part of them being able to do that.

 

I was a big fan of his at Wigan so no blue specs here. Personally I see a lot of comments just like I did with Alcaraz and McCarthy labelling them as shit just because they played for Wigan with no understanding of the skills they bring to the table.

 

Again a lot of players in the league will be wishing they could have the 'below average to par journeyman' career he has had.

[Hafnia]

You would have to assume that he is going to be fit enough to play as a starting striker in this scenario. Even with his previous knee injury he was playing week in week out for Wigan with no problems.

 

Again you say they created a lot of chances and therefore he should have scored the goals he did but how without too many real creative players how did they come about creating those chances? Kone was a big part of them being able to do that.

 

I was a big fan of his at Wigan so no blue specs here. Personally I see a lot of comments just like I did with Alcaraz and McCarthy labelling them as shit just because they played for Wigan with no understanding of the skills they bring to the table.

 

Again a lot of players in the league will be wishing they could have the 'below average to par journeyman' career he has had.

Completely agree, reputation and not enough evaluation.

[Paddock]

You would have to assume that he is going to be fit enough to play as a starting striker in this scenario. Even with his previous knee injury he was playing week in week out for Wigan with no problems.

Again you say they created a lot of chances and therefore he should have scored the goals he did but how without too many real creative players how did they come about creating those chances? Kone was a big part of them being able to do that.

I was a big fan of his at Wigan so no blue specs here. Personally I see a lot of comments just like I did with Alcaraz and McCarthy labelling them as shit just because they played for Wigan with no understanding of the skills they bring to the table.

Again a lot of players in the league will be wishing they could have the 'below average to par journeyman' career he has had.

I didn't say he was shit because he played for Wigan , who he played for is irrelevant I was just putting a spin on his "he scored 14 goals in a shit team people are saying, we'll so what, as I've said Anichebe probably would have scored similar. That team that were relegated had plenty of attacking players and created loads of chances they just leaked goals for fun and that was ultimately their downfall.

 

You like him ans I'm not suggesting you shouldn't but for me he was a waste of 6 million pounds we never had to waste and so far I've in my own eyes been proven right in my thinking. We already as I've said had a 10-12 goal a season striker in Anichebe who is younger and arguably fitter (again speaks volumes to me)

 

So just to reiterate, it has nothing to do with who he played for, where he comes from or anything else. I just don't rate him and I don't think he is good enough and was a waste of money. As I say I will be more than happy to eat these words and for you to point them out to me if he sets us on fire (even as a bit part back up striker) this season but I don't see it happening mate.

[Hafnia]

I didn't say he was shit because he played for Wigan , who he played for is irrelevant I was just putting a spin on his "he scored 14 goals in a shit team people are saying, we'll so what, as I've said Anichebe probably would have scored similar. That team that were relegated had plenty of attacking players and created loads of chances they just leaked goals for fun and that was ultimately their downfall.

 

You like him ans I'm not suggesting you shouldn't but for me he was a waste of 6 million pounds we never had to waste and so far I've in my own eyes been proven right in my thinking. We already as I've said had a 10-12 goal a season striker in Anichebe who is younger and arguably fitter (again speaks volumes to me)

 

So just to reiterate, it has nothing to do with who he played for, where he comes from or anything else. I just don't rate him and I don't think he is good enough and was a waste of money. As I say I will be more than happy to eat these words and for you to point them out to me if he sets us on fire (even as a bit part back up striker) this season but I don't see it happening mate.

 

Just for a comparison, Anichebe played for WBA last season and scored 3 goals in 16 games. I would argue that gives a more realistic comparison to Kone's season at Wigan where he was relegated.

 

The wigan team didn't create "loads of chances" - they played with a possession based mentality. Last season WBA scored 43 goals -just avoiding relegation , the season Wigan were relagated they scored 47.

 

The more reliable goal scoring comparison between Vic and Kone is Kone's last season at Wigan and Vic's season at WBA - Kone wins on that count.

 

Ability wise Kone is a superior player, where Vic spends his time slapping the floor, Kone is getting stuck in. Kone is a better player at stretching the defence, holdfs the ball up, takes his man on with more success.

 

Really don't get all this negativity towards a player who got booted in the knee and hasn't had the chance to prove himself - maybe he's taken Naismiths boo boy place.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Hafnia

[StevO]

We have to hate someone! Naismith got himself out of it last season, Bill signed Rom, so its Hibbert or Kone, take your pick lads. You cant have both though.