Paddock Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Cornish Steve said: But we don't need more "top players." We just spent a complete fortune on them. Right now, we need someone who knows how to turn them into a great team. (I'll grant you a top striker would be useful, but I view that as secondary right now.) We need a top striker, it's exactly what we need and Koeman has MUCH more of a chance of convincing a Cavani to come here than Unsworth would. He wont come anyway as it happens but the point is the same- players want to play for managers they respect not journeymen like Unsworth- that's the reason managers like him don't get a chance at ambitious clubs and it fucking stinks but no top player will play under a manager he sees as beneath him. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 classic Haf, don't answer the question try and tie the poster up in knots asking them questions and trying to make them look wrong. also your 2 points are wrong because you didn't read my walsh post. i said where are the cheap french leaguers?, has nothing to do with cultured or thinking the expensive signings are wrong (big gylfi fan here), i simply said where the french at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, hafnia said: Unfortunately a big factor is the local area. Many players want london or the South coast. We should target coastal players, they'd feel at home here. Any good players from Rotterdam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 17 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: classic Haf, don't answer the question try and tie the poster up in knots asking them questions and trying to make them look wrong. also your 2 points are wrong because you didn't read my walsh post. i said where are the cheap french leaguers?, has nothing to do with cultured or thinking the expensive signings are wrong (big gylfi fan here), i simply said where the french at? So are you happy with the signings then? That they are all top draw and we wouldn't get them without koeman? That's the only thing I can fathom. Personally I don't buy it. Giroud would sooner stay on the bench at arsenal, sissoko never came... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, hafnia said: So are you happy with the signings then? That they are all top draw and we wouldn't get them without koeman? That's the only thing I can fathom. Personally I don't buy it. Giroud would sooner stay on the bench at arsenal, sissoko never came... Giroud stayed because his missus and family didn't want to relocate, he's said that himself- he also said he'd decided to come and after speaking to them changed his mind. Sissoko went to a club who offered him CL football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Paddock said: Giroud stayed because his missus and family didn't want to relocate, he's said that himself- he also said he'd decided to come and after speaking to them changed his mind. Sissoko went to a club who offered him CL football. Which shows that there are more important factors than the manager as I mentioned above.... playing down south, the project etc. Which essentially downplays the importance of who the manager is.... which says to me that we can give someone like unsworth a go.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 24 minutes ago, hafnia said: So are you happy with the signings then? That they are all top draw and we wouldn't get them without koeman? That's the only thing I can fathom. Personally I don't buy it. Giroud would sooner stay on the bench at arsenal, sissoko never came... i'm happy with keane pickford siggy sandro. Not happy we don't have a bunch of cheap french league diamond in the roughs. Where did i say they are top drawer? you said that not i. I said all of them said koeman was a big influence in them coming here. which is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, hafnia said: Which shows that there are more important factors than the manager as I mentioned above.... playing down south, the project etc. Which essentially downplays the importance of who the manager is.... which says to me that we can give someone like unsworth a go.. No- what that means is NO MATTER who the manager is Giroud wouldn't go against his family, if it was Unsworth he probably wouldn't of even considered it. The manager alone doesn't guarantee anything but having a high profile one helps attracts better players. Matt and Romey 1878 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romey 1878 Posted September 25, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, hafnia said: Which shows that there are more important factors than the manager as I mentioned above.... playing down south, the project etc. Which essentially downplays the importance of who the manager is.... which says to me that we can give someone like unsworth a go.. I think the point is that we have more of a chance of signing those players with the likes of Koeman than an Unsworth. No one sees it as a guarantee with Koeman, but is pretty much at zero with a nobody like Unsworth. Paddock, nyblue23, Quinn31 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said: I think the point is that we have more of a chance of signing those players with the likes of Koeman than an Unsworth. No one sees it as a guarantee with Koeman, but is pretty much at zero with a nobody like Unsworth. This man gets it!! markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 50 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said: i'm happy with keane pickford siggy sandro. Not happy we don't have a bunch of cheap french league diamond in the roughs. Where did i say they are top drawer? you said that not i. I said all of them said koeman was a big influence in them coming here. which is true. You did say Keane was 'a quality signing' in his thread. I would say that's the same as top drawer.😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Paddock said: We need a top striker, it's exactly what we need and Koeman has MUCH more of a chance of convincing a Cavani to come here than Unsworth would. He wont come anyway as it happens but the point is the same- players want to play for managers they respect not journeymen like Unsworth- that's the reason managers like him don't get a chance at ambitious clubs and it fucking stinks but no top player will play under a manager he sees as beneath him. I'm not convinced of this. For sure, it's true of some players - especially prima donnas - but is it true of all? Leicester still seem capable of attracting talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 32 minutes ago, yamar said: You did say Keane was 'a quality signing' in his thread. I would say that's the same as top drawer.😀 Keane is very good and will be a quality player for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said: I'm not convinced of this. For sure, it's true of some players - especially prima donnas - but is it true of all? Leicester still seem capable of attracting talent. The liecester drum has been beaten to death Steve. Put it this way- would you as an aspiring hungry businessman seek employment with a relatively unknown manager of a firm or a hugely experienced and successful manager of a similar firm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 When it comes down to it, Koeman feels he must play the new recruits. If he doesn't, maybe some transfers will be construed as a waste of money. Fundamentally, I disagree with this. If Klaassen is out of form, put him in the U-23s for a bit (it worked for Niasse!?). If Rooney can't deliver pace, then use him as a sub. If Martina is a defensive liability, then play him in cup tournaments only. The price tag around each player's neck should not be a factor in team selection. Someone on the executive team needs to let him know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Paddock said: The liecester drum has been beaten to death Steve. Put it this way- would you as an aspiring hungry businessman seek employment with a relatively unknown manager of a firm or a hugely experienced and successful manager of a similar firm? It depends. Would you work for Donald Trump? I get your point, and it's valid, but I don't believe it's the full story. For sure, if things are no better by the end of the year, I'd be willing to let Unsworth have a shot. Plus, not all great managers were great players. How do we tap managerial talent of this sort without taking a bit of a chance on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 BTW, I am disappointed with what that video reveals of Koeman's response to Niasse' goal. Was he the only Everton fan in the stadium not feeling elated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said: It depends. Would you work for Donald Trump? I get your point, and it's valid, but I don't believe it's the full story. For sure, if things are no better by the end of the year, I'd be willing to let Unsworth have a shot. Plus, not all thr great managers were great players. How do we tap managerial talent of this sort without taking a bit of a chance on them? I would love Unsworth to have a go and succeed but unfortunately in modern football things like that are a dying breed- the pre madonna players, the chairman and most of all the over demanding fans who want everything inside a season have meant that clubs go for proven quality or big names these days. too much money involved to take a risk like that Cornish Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 1 minute ago, patto said: If I was Unsworth I'd be looking for another job after reading this it's very disrespectful to him and other members of staff. And Koemans reaction to the winning goal is very worrying I think there's problems within the club. And to downplay the under 23s is awful. Players have signed because of Koeman no doubt about that. As for Koeman not celebrating, I'm not fussed, he has never been an emotional and probably never will be, its not who he is. I care about him being an effective manager. We will know how good he is if he gets us playing well and getting results over the coming weeks and months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 Just in relation to that video after a Niasse goal - does anyone know which goal it was? Because he definitely celebrated his second goal on Saturday. So if it was after the first goal I'd say it was because he was annoyed at how we were playing at the time and it was a "but, ok" moment I don't know the man though. Matt and Paddock 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Just in relation to that video after a Niasse goal - does anyone know which goal it was? Because he definitely celebrated his second goal on Saturday. So if it was after the first goal I'd say it was because he was annoyed at how we were playing at the time and it was a "but, ok" moment I don't know the man though. heard he cursed out barkley during the second celebration, get rid already nyblue23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 I care more about how he gets his players playing than how he attracts players.... who don't perform. i don't think Koeman has ever been considered one of the top manager, and I'm not convinced players have joined because of him, but rather for the vision he put forward to them... which is Everton's vision not koemans. these players also credited Bill and Bob for joining us. Does this mean we have one of the top chairmen and ... we'll whatever he is haha. ots the vision and ambition of the club that attracts players, managers just push that vision out. Then they should get on with their jobs and pick a team and formation that wins matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said: Just in relation to that video after a Niasse goal - does anyone know which goal it was? Because he definitely celebrated his second goal on Saturday. So if it was after the first goal I'd say it was because he was annoyed at how we were playing at the time and it was a "but, ok" moment I don't know the man though. It was the first goal. And he takes his right hand out of his pocket and thumps his fist up and down a few times. But that doesn't matter of course! Yet again you guys are clutching at desperate straws to throw what ever you can at the bloke. You don't need to. You've got enough actual factual stuff you can use against him just now...selections, formations, performances, results. Unless you've seen Koeman celebrate a goal like Dunc did at any time, at any club, as a manager, then the mud definitely doesn't stick. Paddock, Romey 1878, markjazzbassist and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 4 hours ago, hafnia said: Is Duncan acting like a hooligan there? Or is he merely euphoric at watching a player chucked on the scrap heap show the type of passion that we need from an Everton player and bring us back into a game? Whilst the manager responsible for his abandonment and disgraceful treatment trudges with his hands in his pockets. When did dalglish act like a hooligan? Personally I think you are talking crap about moyes and mourinho. Maybe you missed the amount of times mourinho has ruined the knees of his suit by sliding on the pitch or moyes doing his 50 yard stare with both fists clenched. Maybe you like managers who act as sanitised and as passionless as the football they serve up. He celebrated the winner like a kid; maybe he just thought, "thank fuck for that" when we equalised. This argument carries no weight whatsoever. Romey 1878, Matt and markjazzbassist 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, MikeO said: He celebrated the winner like a kid; maybe he just thought, "thank fuck for that" when we equalised. This argument carries no weight whatsoever. This is what I was trying to get at with my post but you put it much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 To be fair it's just a bad camera angle. i think his right arm is punching the air... well more of an uppercut to the ribs, but a punch all the same. He also seems to be smiling as he walks off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 ...and don't forget his post match comments. He couldn't have praised Niasse more than he did. Combined with his comments about him around the Sunderland game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 (edited) I don't think any 1 negative is enough to say get rid..... but when you list them then unfortunately it doesn't paint a good picture. 1. His handling of Barkley... none stop criticism whilst others were getting off with it 2. His treatment of niasse. 3. His inability to use players like Kenny, Davies and DCL correctly - dropping them when they earned a place and sticking to his favourites 4. His continued insistence on setting us up with poor tactics and the same ineffective team 5. Red baubles on a Christmas tree.... that clinched it. 6.not celebrating goals and looking miserable Edited September 25, 2017 by Hafnia Mike told me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, hafnia said: I don't think any 1 negative is enough to say get rid..... but when you list them then unfortunately it doesn't paint a good picture. 1. His handling of Barkley... none stop criticism whilst others were getting off with it 2. His treatment of niasse. 3. His inability to use players like Kenny, Davies and DCL correctly - dropping them when they earned a place and sticking to his favourites 4. His continued insistence on setting us up with poor tactics and the same ineffective team 5. Red baubles on a Christmas tree.... that clinched it. So you admit you were wrong over the goal celebration thing as you left it off the list? (But you just don't want to say it out loud) Matt, markjazzbassist, Paddock and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted September 25, 2017 Report Share Posted September 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, hafnia said: I don't think any 1 negative is enough to say get rid..... but when you list them then unfortunately it doesn't paint a good picture. 1. His handling of Barkley... none stop criticism whilst others were getting off with it 2. His treatment of niasse. 3. His inability to use players like Kenny, Davies and DCL correctly - dropping them when they earned a place and sticking to his favourites 4. His continued insistence on setting us up with poor tactics and the same ineffective team 5. Red baubles on a Christmas tree.... that clinched it. I don't necessarily agree with all those things but I do agree that there is a bit of an 'accumulation effect'. Time will tell though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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