NyarkosLeftToe Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 He's far better linking up play than Lukaku, better in the air depsite being a few inches shorter. He just does not get knocked off the ball - at all, he uses his strength whereas Lukaku seems off balance. Give Lukau 5 years - give him 10 years - that touch of his is here to stay. Lukaku is quicker, Bony has a better strike on him. In short Bony is ideal for our play. Say we got him for 20 mil have him for 5 years then sold him at age 30/31 for probably what 3/5 mil? Same with Lukaku but sold him at 25/26 for 20/25 mil? You think Bony would score/create more goals than Rom to justify that difference? He would have to be a 25/30 goal a year striker for us. I just don't see it, but I hope if we get him I'm wrong and you're right. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 Say we got him for 20 mil have him for 5 years then sold him at age 30/31 for probably what 3/5 mil? Same with Lukaku but sold him at 25/26 for 20/25 mil? You think Bony would score/create more goals than Rom to justify that difference? He would have to be a 25/30 goal a year striker for us. I just don't see it, but I hope if we get him I'm wrong and you're right. Basically who do I think will be best for us, bony... IF lukaku somehow improves markedly then he could be that man. For me bony is a player who could go on to be exceptional. lukaku I don't believe will improve as much. The rest of it is all financial, we need a man who scores goals and links play. Bony is that man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted June 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 It's all irrelevant really as it's very unlikely either one will be an Everton player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 It's all irrelevant really as it's very unlikely either one will be an Everton player. Yeah. Whenever I think of it, I still can't see us being able to spend £20-£25 million on one player...not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm still not having this about a player not being able to improve his touch. Any aspect of muscle memory, which is effectively what it is, can be improved. If my Dad can learn to play a guitar at 62 from scratch, doing something he has no experience with at all, then an athlete can improve one single individual part of his game at 20/21. I hope we get to see it in a blue shirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm still not having this about a player not being able to improve his touch. Any aspect of muscle memory, which is effectively what it is, can be improved. If my Dad can learn to play a guitar at 62 from scratch, doing something he has no experience with at all, then an athlete can improve one single individual part of his game at 20/21. I hope we get to see it in a blue shirt.I feel the same. Muscle memory is indeed involved. The moat technical drummers don't peak at 16/17/18, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 http://sportsnscience.utah.edu/musclememory/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 The moat technical drummers don't peak at 16/17/18, whatever. It's always difficult to play the drums under water, no doubt about that ! Kudos to your dad Ste, brilliant to take on a new instrument at that age; and the pain he's suffered in his left fingertips (assuming he's right handed) must've been really nasty. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 It's always difficult to play the drums under water, no doubt about that ! Kudos to your dad Ste, brilliant to take on a new instrument at that age; and the pain he's suffered in his left fingertips (assuming he's right handed) must've been really nasty. Ugh. proofread, proofread, proofread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 (edited) It's all very well looking a good player when things are going your way, when the team play nice easy through balls and you aren't needing to show other fundamental attributes. This has been my beef with lukaku since late last year. This has nothing to do with ronaldo, who is effectively a one man team. Lukakus contribution barring goals is not good enough. A modern day Tony cottee is not what we need, at £20m plus I'll pass. I am starting to think you might be right that Lukaku might not become the player I hoped as he may not develop technically. He's still a good player but it was noticeable for Everton too. But Ronaldo isn't a one-man team. In fact he's been their worst player in the decisive games of the last few tournaments (Spain twice and Germany) and he was posted missing in the initial group of qualification. He wouldn't even have been in the playoffs if not for his team-mates. He's hardly a one man team when Portugal have had a solid defence for ages now (until the other night) and Moutinho is a top midfielder. It's an excuse for Ronaldo and does a disservice to his team-mates. Even at the last Euros he was poor in three of the five games. His problem is that he relies on service like that he receives at RM and in the play-off games. When he doesn't get it he's quite ordinary. As for Bony, he's a very good player who I like but he seems very much a flavour of the month. He's hardly a clear improvement on Lukaku. People here talk about Bony like he's Drogba ffs. Edited June 18, 2014 by Nikica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 18, 2014 Report Share Posted June 18, 2014 I'm still not having this about a player not being able to improve his touch. Any aspect of muscle memory, which is effectively what it is, can be improved. If my Dad can learn to play a guitar at 62 from scratch, doing something he has no experience with at all, then an athlete can improve one single individual part of his game at 20/21. I hope we get to see it in a blue shirt. Agreed, I've seen it happen over the course of months and years and that's at a lower level - players can definitely improve their touch imo. If guys I know who play twice a week can improve, why can't Lukaku when he trains or plays every day? Of course he's playing at a higher level but he's far better than the players at our level so it balances oot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 No to Bony over Lukaku. On this point, I very much agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'm still not having this about a player not being able to improve his touch. Any aspect of muscle memory, which is effectively what it is, can be improved. If my Dad can learn to play a guitar at 62 from scratch, doing something he has no experience with at all, then an athlete can improve one single individual part of his game at 20/21. I hope we get to see it in a blue shirt. Learning to play a guitar and being able to control a football "well" are different though Steve. (Fair play to your Dad BTW) Theres a massive amount of information being processed when a ball is going towards a player, "where do I want it to drop" "what will I do next" "how fast is it going" "do I need to change position"... For me one of the biggest problems with Rom is his balance. He is rarely in a position to use his size and strength effectively as he is often off balance. Struggling to maintain balance means zero chance of controlling a ball. He just looks all over the place when a ball is hit at him. Conversely look at the best touch from a centre forward I have seen - Berbatov. The man is languid, feet rooted till the very last few metres of ball flight where he basically kills the ball. Often criticised for being lazy, I seen him as being one of the best hold up players and number 9's and its down to his touch. Lukaku isn't near having the quality of touch to make the most of his awesome physical potential. At best it may get ok, he just doesn't have it - like I can't do a drop shot in squash or tennis despite years of trying - some just have that ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 Its not just my opinion regarding the early maturity of co-ordination. I know I have quoted Arsene Wenger on this, but I know Joe Harts dad used to throw balls at him from a young age as a P.E Teacher he knew it was when he would develop the motor skills at the most optimal time. Developing basic coordination through movement stimulus is a must, with the eventual goal of developing sport-specific coordination in the teenage years. Coordination itself however, is a global system made up of several synergistic elements and not necessarily a singularly defined ability. Balance, rhythm, spatial orientation and the ability to react to both auditory and visual stimulus have all been identified as elements of coordination. In fact, the development of good coordination is a multi-tiered sequence that progress from skills performed with good spatial awareness but without speed, to skills performed at increased speeds and in a constantly changing environment. As Joseph Drabik points out in his book ‘Children & Sports Training’, coordination is best developed between the ages of 7 – 14, with the most crucial period being between 10 – 13 years of age. The ability to optimally develop coordination ends at around the age of 16. As stated in my above post, controlling a football off the deck probably requires the most variables for the brain to process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted June 19, 2014 Report Share Posted June 19, 2014 I'll pass on the message Mike. He was a mechanic for most of his life, so he already had tough skin so wasn't so bad. Was the tendons in his hands that gave him the most trouble. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brett Angel Posted June 22, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well done Rom lad. After this WC is over we're gonna get you for 10mil less. Mirallas, nutmegwolf203, Matt and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee_in_LA Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Belgium's strikers have for the most part been starved for service, however Lukaku for the most part has not done much to make himself open for the ball. He linked up a couple of times in the 1st half but in the 2nd, he was a ghost. Then again, so was Belgium's team up til the 80th minute. Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood81 Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Well done Rom lad. After this WC is over we're gonna get you for 10mil less. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 His ball retention is shite, sorry but it is. £20m my arse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 His ball retention is shite, sorry but it is. £20m my arse... Agree. I wouls say £15 mil with add ons based on goals per playing time. Also additional pay for CL qualification. If Chelsea Tate him that highly they won't be worried with the add ons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 22, 2014 Report Share Posted June 22, 2014 Agree. I wouls say £15 mil with add ons based on goals per playing time. Also additional pay for CL qualification. If Chelsea Tate him that highly they won't be worried with the add ons. Years ago when we were shite I was desperate to sign branco, ravanelli the sort of players who are proven.... I'll be honest lukaku pisses me right off. He's in that bucket as far as I'm concerned. He has very much to prove imo. 1 in 2,.21 years old yeah yeah yeah. Too many get carried away by his goals scored, I recall the games where he went missing and showed naff all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Haf saw his chance and he took it StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nikica Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Haf saw his chance and he took it That's him got one over on Lukaku already then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Years ago when we were shite I was desperate to sign branco, ravanelli the sort of players who are proven.... I'll be honest lukaku pisses me right off. He's in that bucket as far as I'm concerned. He has very much to prove imo. 1 in 2,.21 years old yeah yeah yeah. Too many get carried away by his goals scored, I recall the games where he went missing and showed naff all. Sibdane, Toffee_in_LA and BlueBlood81 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 This is where football is a very strange game indeed. I'm going to use Tugay as an example... Everyone is now subscribing to the whole Andrea Pirlo is a master without many actually really knowing why, (I guess it makes them sound good in the pub) - but he is a very good footballer, brains, technique, vision. Now Tugay... just doesn't have the same glamour does he... however, as it was brought to my attention, get some footage of his games - exceptional talent. I'm not here to say Tugay is better than Pirlo - but I am here to say certain players prosper and some suffer by reputation for reasons other than talent. Lukaku is the new emperor without clothes - Michael Owen was that man a while ago. Players who bump up their stats scoring braces in games where they get the run of the green but go missing and offer very little when marked smartly. They end up with plaudits when some sees 1 in 2 on a piece of paper. Give me the 1 in 3 Peter Beardsley - a forward who rarely had a bad game and never went missing - who could do it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Matt Posted June 23, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'd agree with Michael Owen (always said he was a flash in the pan, like Torres), and Tugay (loved watching him though he could be a dirty player). I'd still take a chance on proven potential rather than a one-season "wonder" like Bony. Benteke is the same to me; great 1st season, ok second (though I know he had injury problems). Not going to argue that Lukaku can be frustrating, all kids developing are (Barkley not releasing passes and holding onto the ball, Gerry too many tricks, Stones occasionally too casual). When he's not being frustrating and banging goals in, a key aspect of a striker, he's very exciting. Romey 1878, MC11, Quinn31 and 3 others 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Angel Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Go and get Remy and end this argument. Will always be a threat in any game and is proven. Don't care if he's older than lukaku. You make it sound like we'll keep these players for five years or more. Wake up please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 Go and get Remy and end this argument. Will always be a threat in any game and is proven. Don't care if he's older than lukaku. You make it sound like we'll keep these players for five years or more. Wake up please! I agree with that, if Remy came to us and banged in 20 goals - which I believe he would do his value would be £25m and we would get offers for him. I like the look of Origi - I know he has had 2 games but he looks an immense athlete and has a better touch and link up play about him than Rom IMO. His value will be £15m+ no doubt after this world cup. Matt and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 I agree with that, if Remy came to us and banged in 20 goals - which I believe he would do his value would be £25m and we would get offers for him. I like the look of Origi - I know he has had 2 games but he looks an immense athlete and has a better touch and link up play about him than Rom IMO. His value will be £15m+ no doubt after this world cup. Agreed on the whole with the Origi comment, but my concern is still that hes unproven. Not to mention his price will be overly inflated due to his 60mins / 2 goals performance (which isnt enough time to judge the lad). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted June 23, 2014 Report Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Remy wants to play in the Champions League.... Redknapp said he'd spoke to him and he's looking for a move to a CL club only. Edited June 23, 2014 by MiguelCotto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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