Bailey Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Spot on StevO markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 If we want to see the best of Ross Barkley he needs to be supported at Goodison. On the road he gets very minimal criticism, and we all know how sensitive he is to criticism. Especially when it comes from the fans, that's what hurts him more than anything. He isn't going to toughen up in that sense, that's just how he is. He needs to feel loved, he just doesn't get that from the Goodison crowd anymore. The expectations of our crowd is just ridiculous. He can't score a worlds every week, he will make mistakes, but he is affected by them more than anyone. If any of the boo boys at Goodison saw another Evertonian getting grief in a pub or being picked on or getting beaten up I'm sure they would help out. But they see one of our own on the pitch having a hard time and they make it worse. I don't understand it. He's not perfect, he does need more coaching, his workrate does need to step up, and he can improve his game. He needs our help to do it though, I can't think of any other player in my lifetime that's needed the support of the crowd as much as the support of the manager, but Ross does. Spot on. It's almost barbaric. The crowd can sniff any mental weakness on a player and that's it... the bigger the expectations the worse. Look how Cleverley was treated by the mancs... the successor to scholes from the youth set up. It's like a pack mentality... the kids pick and pick till their victim responds with their fists. Is it jealousy? Is it the fact that he should be stevie g? I don't know.... but put the right players around him and he will flourish. Tom Davies for starters, a energetic striker who creates pockets and defensive indecision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 27, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 If we want to see the best of Ross Barkley he needs to be supported at Goodison. On the road he gets very minimal criticism, and we all know how sensitive he is to criticism. Especially when it comes from the fans, that's what hurts him more than anything. He isn't going to toughen up in that sense, that's just how he is. He needs to feel loved, he just doesn't get that from the Goodison crowd anymore. The expectations of our crowd is just ridiculous. He can't score a worlds every week, he will make mistakes, but he is affected by them more than anyone. If any of the boo boys at Goodison saw another Evertonian getting grief in a pub or being picked on or getting beaten up I'm sure they would help out. But they see one of our own on the pitch having a hard time and they make it worse. I don't understand it. He's not perfect, he does need more coaching, his workrate does need to step up, and he can improve his game. He needs our help to do it though, I can't think of any other player in my lifetime that's needed the support of the crowd as much as the support of the manager, but Ross does. As much as he frustrates me I never get on his back during a game (or tweet him abuse like some muppets). I mean, what's the point? He only personal things he, or any player for that matter, needs to hear is encouragement and praise. When they're bad they know it more than anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Completely Mark. When you've fucked up you already know it, don't need 35,000 knob heads telling you. If I was an opposition player I'd be made up with that. The lad who sits next to me must be about 18 stone but constantly shouts fat arse at Barkley, as well as spending half time telling people that Barkley was in town last night doing coke and smoking until four in the morning. Like no one at the club would notice him turning up a mess or find it in club urine tests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Completely Mark. When you've fucked up you already know it, don't need 35,000 knob heads telling you. If I was an opposition player I'd be made up with that. The lad who sits next to me must be about 18 stone but constantly shouts fat arse at Barkley, as well as spending half time telling people that Barkley was in town last night doing coke and smoking until four in the morning. Like no one at the club would notice him turning up a mess or find it in club urine tests. Yeah I bet the 18 stoner had trials when he was 9 and still feels aggrieved that he wasn't the local boy made good. No one realises how good these players actually are. Had one lad in our year at primary school - very good player. Played in the Everton cup (wirral primary schools vs liverpool schools)... and he said there was a kid playing for the Liverpool schools who was like something he'd never seen before. Completely messed his head up as he thought "I'm not good enough" The other lad Robbie Ryder? What happened to him?.... well he took his mums maiden name "fowler"... That's the difference in levels. You get a load of lads who think they came close. Nowhere frigging near. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) The problem is if he needs everybody to love him before he puts in a performance he shouldn't be in the game. It's a game for men not a game for crying little boys, pull yourself together lad and earn your money. Not the sort of bloke I'd like beside me in the trenches. Edited December 27, 2016 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 The lad is given a ridiculously bad time. I don't like lukaku.... that's a fact but I would see my arse if fans treated him the same way as barkley. There is something inherently wrong with the way barkley gets treated. I think it a comes down to what he looks like and where he comes from. The fans see a 6ft 3 scouser with legs and chest like a gorilla play like a ballerina.... they want him to be this snappy cross between gerrard, Keane, viera and Zidane. When they see this big kid be a bit lightweight it brings thd bully out of them.... they sniff the weakness like some urchin serving a life term in Walton. Out of all of those players the closest he is to - is Zidane. The first 3 would give their left bollock for Barkley's ability. Depends how painful it is to only have one bollock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Depends how painful it is to only have one bollock. Dixie dean had one... maybe gave the other to be a goal machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) The problem is if he needs everybody to love him before he puts in a performance he shouldn't be in the game. It's a game for men not a game for crying little boys, pull yourself together lad and earn your money. Not the sort of bloke I'd like beside me in the trenches. Big difference between needing to be loved and not wanting to be abused. I actually think the lad is brave as fuck. It takes bottle to continually put yourself out there to be slated whilst being sensitive to it. Too many fans want him to be the tough scally with skin like a rhino. Edited December 27, 2016 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 The problem is if he needs everybody to love him before he puts in a performance he shouldn't be in the game. It's a game for men not a game for crying little boys, pull yourself together lad and earn your money. Not the sort of bloke I'd like beside me in the trenches. he's not a soldier bill, he's a footballer. not sure why these kind of statements keep coming up, he's not your mate, he's an athlete and they all need different motivation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Every player on the pitch gets abuse at sometime or other. Show a bit of spirit, guts, and determination and the abuse would stop, he's the only one who can provide it. I'm looking forward to the next time I can give him my MOTM vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 As much as he frustrates me I never get on his back during a game (or tweet him abuse like some muppets). I mean, what's the point? He only personal things he, or any player for that matter, needs to hear is encouragement and praise. When they're bad they know it more than anyone. Yep this for me also. Doesn't matter who the player is, I always encourage. We sit front rom so we get the wingers and full backs standing by us all the time. We're lucky where we sit it's been the same 15-20 in our direct block and none of us get on the players back, we all shout and clap encouragement no matter what. Not because we think it'll make a difference but because we want them to know even if they are playing shit we're stil 1000000% behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Too right Pad. Our lads should be out there knowing everyone in the crowd would fight for them, it gets to the opposition. The Arsenal game was a perfect example of it, the crowd got behind the team 100% and it all came together. 12th man and all that, it makes a difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 Every player on the pitch gets abuse at sometime or other. Show a bit of spirit, guts, and determination and the abuse would stop, he's the only one who can provide it. I'm looking forward to the next time I can give him my MOTM vote. I have a post it on my laptop waiting! I won't let you get away with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 The problem is if he needs everybody to love him before he puts in a performance he shouldn't be in the game. It's a game for men not a game for crying little boys, pull yourself together lad and earn your money. Not the sort of bloke I'd like beside me in the trenches. Oh jesus, not back on a military downer again are we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 It's a man's game lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) Men aren't just people in the military mate, you should know that. And all military men should be classed as "men" . You should also know that. We're not dinosaurs, footballers are technical players these days. The tough hard men can't compete these days because the professional players are harder to be bullied. Bloody changed my phone to an iPhone haha does what it wants. Edited December 27, 2016 by Shukes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted December 27, 2016 Report Share Posted December 27, 2016 It's a man's game lad. War is? Trenches for goalposts, heads and volleys with a stray grenade, thin red line of the offside call, barrage from the left of me wingers on the right here I am stuck in the razor wire with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Jags had to throw him a hanky to wipe his eyes cos he thought the fans were booing him. The military reference was simply to say I think he's a bit of a pussy, he should just man up and get stuck in. We've had quite a few players here who didn't have half the skill he's got, but they showed pride in the shirt, run around a lot, and threw in a few tackles for good measure. If he thinks people are booing him they are doing it for a reason, and he's the only one who can shut them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 But it's the military references that don't add up. I know loads of lads who joined the army to get away from normal life after being bullied. People are people and being a soldier doesn't make you tough. It's what your made of that makes you tough, not your call in life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Bravery isn't the ability to take endless amounts of shit and let it bounce off you.... that isn't what makes you tough. Bravery is knowing that you are putting yourself into a situation that you do not like - not running away but facing it... getting knocked down and getting up again. This lad is as brave as fuck. Because i'll be honest.... the shit I've heard aimed at him I would stick two fingers up and say fuck the lot of ya. The fact that he frustrates fans - yeah I get it. The fact that he gets shit even when he's doing the right things - shows a deep rooted issue at the heart of many fans. People should be wanting him to do well.... it seems far too many enjoy watching him get shit. It's all very similar to what happened to osman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I'm not arsed if he loses the ball trying to make something happen. He can't win with some fans in that aspect they moan if he passes it sideways, but booh if he takes a risk and loses if. My gripe is the other side of his game, when he doesn't have the ball. He's two seconds behind everyone, so he's chasing shadows and when we do get the ball back he's not in the right place. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I'm not arsed if he loses the ball trying to make something happen. He can't win with some fans in that aspect they moan if he passes it sideways, but booh if he takes a risk and loses if. My gripe is the other side of his game, when he doesn't have the ball. He's two seconds behind everyone, so he's chasing shadows and when we do get the ball back he's not in the right place. I'll be honest - defending as an attacking mid is difficult. You feel like you are moving house and your the only person not carrying something. When you defend as a centre forward you look to pin the centre halves. When you defend as a defender you mark the attackers. The attacking midfielders position is a conundrum. Merson was talking about it on fantasy footy. It's the hardest tactical position on the pitch - the free role. Sounds lovely but it's not. The lad needs clear instructions - he isn't clever enough to do the off the ball work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete0 Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 The lad needs clear instructions - he isn't clever enough to do the off the ball work.Bingo. To make him even more frustrating he is instinctively the most natural footballer on the pitch when he's fired up, but his mentality doesn't let him tap into it often enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 I'll be honest - defending as an attacking mid is difficult. You feel like you are moving house and your the only person not carrying something. When you defend as a centre forward you look to pin the centre halves. When you defend as a defender you mark the attackers. The attacking midfielders position is a conundrum. Merson was talking about it on fantasy footy. It's the hardest tactical position on the pitch - the free role. Sounds lovely but it's not. The lad needs clear instructions - he isn't clever enough to do the off the ball work. It's knackering too as you are constantly ahead of the ball. When we get on the ball he is looking to break forward but when that move breaks down at the next pass, he is then the wrong side of the person he should be marking and then he has to acknowledge the turn of possession, stop, turn and then get back into position. I play at the back and defending in that position is easy, when I pushed forward in the game for a bit of fun, I could easily get into space and make myself available but then when they won the ball back I was out of the game completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) It's knackering too as you are constantly ahead of the ball. When we get on the ball he is looking to break forward but when that move breaks down at the next pass, he is then the wrong side of the person he should be marking and then he has to acknowledge the turn of possession, stop, turn and then get back into position. I play at the back and defending in that position is easy, when I pushed forward in the game for a bit of fun, I could easily get into space and make myself available but then when they won the ball back I was out of the game completely. Exactly... it's a complete headfuck. Easiest position on the pitch to play? Defensive mid or full back. Absolute piece of piss positional wise. As an attacking mid I would find myself in 2 minds all the time. You can stay forward and stop one of their players joining an attack - then one of your team mates go nuts at you "get back".... you het back and therefore allow more of their players to get forward. I would sooner barkley becomes a second striker when the opponents defence has the ball. Press like fuck. Once they get past into midfield he drops between the defensive and midfield line waiting for us to get possession again - keeping Rom splitting the centre halves. I think his ability to find space to take a pass is exceptional. Edited December 28, 2016 by Hafnia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Exactly... it's a complete headfuck. Easiest position on the pitch to play? Defensive mid or full back. Absolute piece of piss positional wise. As an attacking mid I would find myself in 2 minds all the time. You can stay forward and stop one of their players joining an attack - then one of your team mates go nuts at you "get back".... you het back and therefore allow more of their players to get forward. I would sooner barkley becomes a second striker when the opponents defence has the ball. Press like fuck. Once they get past into midfield he drops between the defensive and midfield line waiting for us to get possession again - keeping Rom splitting the centre halves. I think his ability to find space to take a pass is exceptional. If you played for a team that dominated it wouldn't be so bad because the likelihood is that you would be on the ball again petty quickly but it games that go end to end you have no chance of regularly getting yourself into the 'right' position and the more you try the worse it gets. At least if you just play as a lazy attacker or sit deeper and more as a midfielder you will be in position half the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Big difference between needing to be loved and not wanting to be abused. I actually think the lad is brave as fuck. It takes bottle to continually put yourself out there to be slated whilst being sensitive to it. Too many fans want him to be the tough scally with skin like a rhino. There are two separate issues here. There is the guy who is having an off-day, works his balls off but nothing goes right. Then there is the guy with all the talent in the world but wont put the effort in. I will give 110% support to the former but reserve the right to slate the latter, particularly if he is a pro footballer earning 60k a week. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Jags had to throw him a hanky to wipe his eyes cos he thought the fans were booing him. The military reference was simply to say I think he's a bit of a pussy, he should just man up and get stuck in. We've had quite a few players here who didn't have half the skill he's got, but they showed pride in the shirt, run around a lot, and threw in a few tackles for good measure. If he thinks people are booing him they are doing it for a reason, and he's the only one who can shut them up. So, in trench warfare who do you fancy bunking up with out of the current squad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnh Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Coleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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