Hafnia Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 I think I've said elsewhere. Just tell him that he is to get the ball and first thought is run at defenders - nothing else. Let him play Street football. If a pass is on it will present itself. It's nuts... he's getting slated for 53% pass completion which is fair enough.... Lukaku had a 45% completion. The reality is this - we have 2 players who are very destructive to the opposition when they are on.... we just can't get them on. Throw mirallas and Gerry in that mix and yes.... highly frustrating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) I think it's his all round game causing the difference in opinions, todays footballers, especially midfielders have to have everything in their locker to be recognised as a decent player. It's not his passing, when he does pass, it's not his dribbling, when he doesn't run into a dead end, for me it's his tackling, or non existent tackling. He is right in the center of the game where it's all happening and i can't believe it when I see him trotting alongside an opponent without the determination to go and win the ball or at least put in a tackle. To me he is a lazy fucker and gives the impression that he couldn't give a shit. As a PS .. I can't believe how Haf continues to have a pop a Lukaku for being lazy, but has the opposite view on Barkley who is just as lazy. Just a thought Edited December 24, 2016 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c1982 Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 We have seen flashes of looking much better in the last 2 games (last 60 vs Arse and 1st 45 vs RS) - this was down to more energy with McCarthy beside Gana and Lennon/Valencia in the wing positions. McCarthy clearly isn't fit enough, Lennon/Valencia are squad players who can do that high energy job as back-up but probably don't have the quality to do it consistently at the level required. If we can improve on the supporting cast then we may see Rom and Ross fulfil their promise here. Yes they both need to work a lot harder but at the same time we need to get the best out of our 'prized' assets/ match winners by building around them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 I think it's his all round game causing the difference in opinions, todays footballers, especially midfielders have to have everything in their locker to be recognised as a decent player. It's not his passing, when he does pass, it's not his dribbling, when he doesn't run into a dead end, for me it's his tackling, or non existent tackling. He is right in the center of the game where it's all happening and i can't believe it when I see him trotting alongside an opponent without the determination to go and win the ball or at least put in a tackle. To me he is a lazy fucker and gives the impression that he couldn't give a shit. As a PS .. I can't believe how Haf continues to have a pop a Lukaku for being lazy, but has the opposite view on Barkley who is just as lazy. Just a thought Barkley is not as lazy as lukaku - not by a stretch. The fact that Lukaku is the lowest running outfield player in the league says that. I have varying issues with either player. Barkley needs to close players better - I've said this time after time. He also needs to have less clutter in his mind. Barkley's movement is very good in the transition. When we have the ball his team mates find it easy to get the ball to Ross, the same can't be said for lukaku. The annoying thing is that both players could be criticised by the manager.... yet only one is and continues to be. One needs an arm round the shoulder, the other one needs a kicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 He's around the mid pack for me. Don't think his anywhere near as bad as people are making out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 Easy target springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 I really don't know how anyone thinks he played well against the shite http://www.football365.com/news/mediawatch-oh-ronald-you-confused-kid-barkley I don't think anyone has said he played well have they? Re the defensive side, If you watch the game back you can see he spends more time looking at Rom and his own positioning with him than he does looking at the ball or the player around him. He looked to me to be so concerned with following instructions that he forgot to actually play the game. There were times that he seemed to be man marking Henderson but when the ball carrier 5 or 10 yards away moved forward with the ball he then realised he needed to defend that run but was already behind the ball and then we'll out of any reasonable position. Koeman had clearly focused Barkley on his defensive positioning but had neglected how to bring his talents into play from an attacking point of view. It's something Moyes would have done! Don't get me wrong, I'm not absolving Barkley of responsibility because he was crap but he just seemed so unsure about what he was supposed to be doing and the ping pong nature of the game completely bypassed him. You couldn't have played a game more to his weaknesses if you tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) Hey listen, if your good enough you don't need to be told how to play, you just go out and play your normal game. You should know what's needed from you.? Do you think Messi or Suarez are told how to play. Edited December 24, 2016 by Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 Hey listen, if your good enough you don't need to be told how to play, you just go out and play your normal game. You should know what's needed from you.? Do you think Messi or Suarez are told how to play. Yeah I do. That's what managers do. Players like them make it easy for the manager to give a free role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 (edited) Hey listen, if your good enough you don't need to be told how to play, you just go out and play your normal game. You should know what's needed from you.? Do you think Messi or Suarez are told how to play. Yeh they definitely so but at the same time they have more creative license than Barkley (comparing the Derby to their normal games). Edited December 24, 2016 by Bailey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 Hey listen, if your good enough you don't need to be told how to play, you just go out and play your normal game. You should know what's needed from you.? Do you think Messi or Suarez are told how to play. What do you think Koeman has been doing to Barkley since he got here, and it's not go out there and play how you want and where you want, that I believe is a big factor as to why Barkley is a shadow of his normal self, he's been shackled and is playing with fear of being Koeman's scapegoat, Long gone is the player who was allowed to go on the pitch and express himself with the freedom that made him the player with seen he can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 If Barkley played to his top form he wouldn't need to be told what to do.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 I don't think anyone has said he played well have they? Re the defensive side, If you watch the game back you can see he spends more time looking at Rom and his own positioning with him than he does looking at the ball or the player around him. He looked to me to be so concerned with following instructions that he forgot to actually play the game. There were times that he seemed to be man marking Henderson but when the ball carrier 5 or 10 yards away moved forward with the ball he then realised he needed to defend that run but was already behind the ball and then we'll out of any reasonable position. Koeman had clearly focused Barkley on his defensive positioning but had neglected how to bring his talents into play from an attacking point of view. It's something Moyes would have done! Don't get me wrong, I'm not absolving Barkley of responsibility because he was crap but he just seemed so unsure about what he was supposed to be doing and the ping pong nature of the game completely bypassed him. You couldn't have played a game more to his weaknesses if you tried. Yes they have actually. Not many but a few, and I've been baffled by it because he was terrible. He is clearly a player suffering from a lack of confidence, but if receiving instructions and having to follow them throws him so much then we have a serious problem. We all thought him being instructed would help him after Martinez. So if being told what to do is as bad as him not having help what do we do? Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 Barkley play's well when the team keep good retention of the ball, he can then interact with players around him and show off his abilities. At present we must have the lowest possession of the ball in the league, and when he does receive it he's usually to deep or has no one around him to work off. If Eddie Howe had him he would be back in the England setup. Fucking hate the shit sisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 24, 2016 Report Share Posted December 24, 2016 Barkley play's well when the team keep good retention of the ball, he can then interact with players around him and show off his abilities. At present we must have the lowest possession of the ball in the league, and when he does receive it he's usually to deep or has no one around him to work off. If Eddie Howe had him he would be back in the England setup. Fucking hate the shit sisters. And this is what people aren't seeing. They concentrate on everything he does wrong fans can't see the good he does. Getting rid would be maddness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Yes they have actually. Not many but a few, and I've been baffled by it because he was terrible. He is clearly a player suffering from a lack of confidence, but if receiving instructions and having to follow them throws him so much then we have a serious problem. We all thought him being instructed would help him after Martinez. So if being told what to do is as bad as him not having help what do we do? I don't know why people think him having more instructions would help as he looks like he has trouble tying his laces. The problems with Barkley are all between his ears. He needs help with his defensive positioning but a lot of that is about his desire to get back behind the ball and into position more than anything. Martinez let him get away with not putting in the effort to defend but he did the right thing in not trying to force him into rigid instructions. Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideliner Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Barkley has lots of talent but very little wide vision - He can dribble a ball well but his forward passing and interplay is poor - He can score a goal but makes little if any contribution in defense - He can be very sharp in an instant but his workrate over 90 min is suspect to say the least - He is like the dog who can chase a car very well but does not know what to do when he catches up with it. The huge gap between his strengths and his weaknesses makes him a very average player - sad to say. We should replace him in midfield with a proper creative playmaker to act as link between our striker and wingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Well put SL excellent post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Wasn't he our most productive midfielder last season as far as chances created and assists goes? So we think that Koeman has destroyed him somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Wasn't he our most productive midfielder last season as far as chances created and assists goes? So we think that Koeman has destroyed him somehow? Finally sanity, thanks shukes. 9 goals 9 assists but yhes shit not worth 10m ship him off. Better goals and assists than golden boy delli Alli (who also is having a bad year), must be fake he sucks sell him. FFS fickle fans, shukes is right the player is quality back him and let's hope he has a better year in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 It's all about balance. Creating those goals and assists without giving the ball away every two touches. Just because he got 9 goals and 9 assists, doesn't make him a great player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 (edited) It's all about balance. Creating those goals and assists without giving the ball away every two touches. Just because he got 9 goals and 9 assists, doesn't make him a great player. Most pro footballers would kill for those stats as a mid, and last I check you win a game by scoring a goal not making a tackle or completing a pass. He had 9 of them, and 9 of them passes. Edited December 25, 2016 by markjazzbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 It makes Lukaku a great player and he gives the ball away much much more than Barkley. There's a player in Ross and we as a premiership club should believe in our ability to bring that out. It's ok for Rom to go through a bad patch along with 70% of the team, but Ross seems to take the brunt of the stick. Does this being the local lad work more against him than it does for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 25, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 I don't know why people think him having more instructions would help as he looks like he has trouble tying his laces. The problems with Barkley are all between his ears. He needs help with his defensive positioning but a lot of that is about his desire to get back behind the ball and into position more than anything. Martinez let him get away with not putting in the effort to defend but he did the right thing in not trying to force him into rigid instructions. He has zero footballing intelligence then. Well that is just a brilliant quality for a midfielder. You could say phenomenal. Desire to get back behind the ball and into position? Christ, that's funny. Ross shows an extreme lack of desire to do either of those things 99% of the time. Martinez gave him zero instructions at a time when it was crucial for him to learn. And by learning I don't even mean the defensive side, I mean footballing knowledge in general. He's never going to get that time again so I do genuinely fear he won't even come close to what he was capable of. He's a big problem for us and probably always will be until we sell him or he retires. He's not clever enough to be a creative player and he's too weak in the mind to play at the top it seems. He needs psychological help because he has the tools, just not the mind. If we do get rid of him I'll be one of the gutted ones because I've always wanted and backed him to succeed. Sideliner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Most pro footballers would kill for those stats as a mid, and last I check you win a game by scoring a goal not making a tackle or completing a pass. He had 9 of them, and 9 of them passes. Fundamentally yes, goals win you games, but it's foolish to think that ONLY goals win you games, that's a fraction of the recipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smeghead1 Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Wow everybody has their own opinion I'm aware of that but the lads 23, Osman was still out on loan at Wolves at that age wasn't he! He's got his best years ahead of him so we sell him because he's having a suspect start to a season! Glad I drive a wagon for a living! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 You should take Barkley on then, he'll drive you round the bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 25, 2016 Report Share Posted December 25, 2016 Wow everybody has their own opinion I'm aware of that but the lads 23, Osman was still out on loan at Wolves at that age wasn't he! He's got his best years ahead of him so we sell him because he's having a suspect start to a season! Glad I drive a wagon for a living! Derby I think, but you're spot on mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted December 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 Derby I think, but you're spot on mate Let's send him out on loan then, and see if another manager won't ask him to run or track his man, or maybe have any kind of discipline. Heaven forbid he's asked to do that or the poor lad might get confused! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Blue Posted December 26, 2016 Report Share Posted December 26, 2016 What would he learn from another manager that he can't learn better under Koeman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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