John Stones

[Aidan]

Totally agree, baines is not and never will be a central midfielder. If Martinez puts him there and proves me wrong then I'll be the first to hold my hands up but he is just not the type of player who could switch to central midfield.

 

Have to disagree on that one mate, I think he has the tackling, passing and mental ability to play there.

 

Agreed, he's no Lahm though.

 

We will just have to wait see.

[zequist]

In Jags time at Everton he's averaged 29 games a season, considering we play upto 50, he missed a bit. And he's been first choice for most of that. Maybe he's more prone to injuries than we thought?

Ok, he doesn't pick up little knocks, well he might but plays through them, but when he gets injured he gets decent time out.

Cruiciate knee ligament being the biggest.

 

Jags has averaged 29 games a season only in Premier League games (205 EPL appearances in 7 years with the club) - that total doesn't include European and Cup games. And if you take out 2009-10 when he only played 12 games because of the ACL tear, his average is slightly over 32 EPL games a year (193/228, or 85% of possible games) - unless a center back is made out of stone, it's hard to ask for much more than that. That's about the same rate of appearances as John Terry had for Chelsea over his healthiest seven-year stretch (86% from 03-04 to 09-10).

 

By my count, Jags has played 240 total games with the club. 205 EPL as noted above, and 35 additional FA Cup, League Cup, and Europa League games - I don't know how many more of those games the club actually played, though, so I can't do any percentage calculations on it - someone else would have to figure out the math on that one.

[thoward18]

 

Jags has averaged 29 games a season only in Premier League games (205 EPL appearances in 7 years with the club) - that total doesn't include European and Cup games. And if you take out 2009-10 when he only played 12 games because of the ACL tear, his average is slightly over 32 EPL games a year (193/228, or 85% of possible games) - unless a center back is made out of stone, it's hard to ask for much more than that. That's about the same rate of appearances as John Terry had for Chelsea over his healthiest seven-year stretch (86% from 03-04 to 09-10).

 

By my count, Jags has played 240 total games with the club. 205 EPL as noted above, and 35 additional FA Cup, League Cup, and Europa League games - I don't know how many more of those games the club actually played, though, so I can't do any percentage calculations on it - someone else would have to figure out the math on that one.

 

 

This is all well and fine, but it still doesn't take away from the point that Jagielka is bound to miss 8-10 games. So maybe he's not particularly more injury prone than many other CBs, but he still is prone in the sense that he's inevitably going to miss some games.

 

Add to that, let's say, 6-8 starts that Distin might miss (and that could be conservative). Then let's say Coleman fatigue/injury will force Stones into 2-3 starts at RB. I think we're looking at about 17-22 starts for Stones in the EPL, plus League and FA Cups as well as Euro and he's bound to get 25-29 starts plus a handful of appearances off the bench and maybe a few call-ups to the U21s or even the national team. For me, that's a perfectly acceptable workload for a 20-year-old defender.

[Matt]

I don't think we've practiced that enough to be honest.

 

Hopefully pre season will give us a hint in to how wer're going to shape up. I wouldn't mind seeing 3 at the back with Oviedo and Coleman as attacking wing backs, with Baines in centre midfield.

Agree, but its certainly an option so long as we prepare and train for it.

 

Every time I watched us switch to this last season I thought we looked awful. Out of shape, disjointed and none of the centre halves knew what the other was doing. Maybe with a lot more practice but not on last years showings . For me anyway.

Was only once to my recollection. However, it could be argued that we played that every game because Barry would often drop back and sit between the 2 CBs and that worked fine for the most part.

 

 

Switching to a 3 at the back seems a bit on the cowardly side to me, i.e. Martinez can't make the big decision on which one to plonk on the bench so plays them all.

Or hes selecting his best players available to him. Stones likes to take the ball forward so put him in the middle and do a Barry kind of job bringing the ball forward, knowing he has Jags and Distin backing him up. Its the same as having to DCMs like last season, just that one of them is more defensively based.

[Romey 1878]

Or hes selecting his best players available to him. Stones likes to take the ball forward so put him in the middle and do a Barry kind of job bringing the ball forward, knowing he has Jags and Distin backing him up. Its the same as having to DCMs like last season, just that one of them is more defensively based.

 

If four at the back wasn't working then I could understand the argument, but it does work. It works very well for us. If it ain't broke then there's no need to fix it.

[Bill]

I agree, Our back 4 consists of 1 Irish International and 2 English Internationals.if Stones plays its 3,. we had as good a back line as anybody last season, We should leave well alone.

[Matt]

I know the back 4 work, but if you play the same system all the time you will be found out. Its about having a plan B. Im not saying it should be our new formation, Im saying it should be an alternative formation that we are prepared to use in the case we need to mix things up.

[Paddock]

 

 

This is all well and fine, but it still doesn't take away from the point that Jagielka is bound to miss 8-10 games. So maybe he's not particularly more injury prone than many other CBs, but he still is prone in the sense that he's inevitably going to miss some games.

 

Add to that, let's say, 6-8 starts that Distin might miss (and that could be conservative). Then let's say Coleman fatigue/injury will force Stones into 2-3 starts at RB. I think we're looking at about 17-22 starts for Stones in the EPL, plus League and FA Cups as well as Euro and he's bound to get 25-29 starts plus a handful of appearances off the bench and maybe a few call-ups to the U21s or even the national team. For me, that's a perfectly acceptable workload for a 20-year-old defender.

How is he "bound" to miss 8-10 games? I don't understand how you come to that conclusion?

[Romey 1878]

I know the back 4 work, but if you play the same system all the time you will be found out. Its about having a plan B. Im not saying it should be our new formation, Im saying it should be an alternative formation that we are prepared to use in the case we need to mix things up.

 

By all means work on it in training so that we have an alternative, but people seem to be saying lets go with a back three this season full stop.

[Matt]

 

By all means work on it in training so that we have an alternative, but people seem to be saying lets go with a back three this season full stop.

I just want an alternative, a prepared alternative, to keep people guessing and to be able to cope if one of the CMs get injured or suspended.

[Bill]

Our Back 4 are as good as anybody's ... :jump for joy:

 

 

 

 

 

[StevO]

 

Jags has averaged 29 games a season only in Premier League games (205 EPL appearances in 7 years with the club) - that total doesn't include European and Cup games. And if you take out 2009-10 when he only played 12 games because of the ACL tear, his average is slightly over 32 EPL games a year (193/228, or 85% of possible games) - unless a center back is made out of stone, it's hard to ask for much more than that. That's about the same rate of appearances as John Terry had for Chelsea over his healthiest seven-year stretch (86% from 03-04 to 09-10).

 

By my count, Jags has played 240 total games with the club. 205 EPL as noted above, and 35 additional FA Cup, League Cup, and Europa League games - I don't know how many more of those games the club actually played, though, so I can't do any percentage calculations on it - someone else would have to figure out the math on that one.

 

I get a lot of your point JD, but you cant take out time missed from an injury when working out how much time hes had out injured! If we take out all of his injuries then hes never missed a game.

According to Evertons own stat page hes made 199 starts and 16 sub appearances, in all comps.

http://www.evertonfc.com/stats/?mode=player_details&player_id=355

 

I'm still not saying hes injury prone, he just seems to miss a few games due to injury every now and then. sometimes for a month or two.

[StevO]

How is he "bound" to miss 8-10 games? I don't understand how you come to that conclusion?

 

I'm guessing hes come to that conclusion as he misses about 8-10 a season most seasons.

[Paddock]

 

I'm guessing hes come to that conclusion as he misses about 8-10 a season most seasons.

That is taken on average after him missing virtually a whole season. He could also go right through without missing a single game. Nobody can predict a players injuries like that. What's stopping him going all season and having a stormer.

[MC11]

Why should Stones or Distin lose their spot when they were practically solid when Jagielka was out.

 

I'm not suggesting Jagielka won't come back in because he will, based on captaincy and experience but I don't agree with it.

[StevO]

That is taken on average after him missing virtually a whole season. He could also go right through without missing a single game. Nobody can predict a players injuries like that. What's stopping him going all season and having a stormer.

 

He could, but he has never gone a full season without missing games, so its unlikely. Its unlikely any player will go a full season without missing a game, outfield players anway.

[zequist]

 

I get a lot of your point JD, but you cant take out time missed from an injury when working out how much time hes had out injured! If we take out all of his injuries then hes never missed a game.

According to Evertons own stat page hes made 199 starts and 16 sub appearances, in all comps.

http://www.evertonfc.com/stats/?mode=player_details&player_id=355

 

I'm still not saying hes injury prone, he just seems to miss a few games due to injury every now and then. sometimes for a month or two.

 

I don't think that stat page has been updated since the beginning of last season. It doesn't have enough appearances for Coleman either (it has him on 80, but after last season he should be closer to 120). Not to mention it seems to think that Fellaini, Cahill, and Heitinga are still part of the club, since it doesn't give their departure dates.

 

The reason I gave averages both with and without 09-10 is because that was a one-time catastrophic injury - the question of whether someone is injury-prone is typically a debate over chronic/nagging/recurring injuries that a player can't seem to escape; catastrophic injuries are a separate issue. Like the way James Vaughan was always "four weeks in, four weeks out" and every time he showed a flash of promise he went right back on the shelf. That's a guy who was injury-prone. Gibson seems to be injury-prone too: he's played more than 24 games in a season just twice in nine years (33 with Royal Antwerp in 2007 and 26 with us in 2013) and he's constantly in and out of our lineup with this and that.

 

The other problem with taking a games missed average as pure evidence of health is that it doesn't give us any details - like times when a coach may have held the player in reserve for strategic reasons, or because he was getting jaded from overuse, or because it was the club's third match in seven days and he just plain needed a breather. No matter how fit they are these guys are still humans, not machines.

[StevO]

 

I don't think that stat page has been updated since the beginning of last season. It doesn't have enough appearances for Coleman either (it has him on 80, but after last season he should be closer to 120). Not to mention it seems to think that Fellaini, Cahill, and Heitinga are still part of the club, since it doesn't give their departure dates.

 

The reason I gave averages both with and without 09-10 is because that was a one-time catastrophic injury - the question of whether someone is injury-prone is typically a debate over chronic/nagging/recurring injuries that a player can't seem to escape; catastrophic injuries are a separate issue. Like the way James Vaughan was always "four weeks in, four weeks out" and every time he showed a flash of promise he went right back on the shelf. That's a guy who was injury-prone. Gibson seems to be injury-prone too: he's played more than 24 games in a season just twice in nine years (33 with Royal Antwerp in 2007 and 26 with us in 2013) and he's constantly in and out of our lineup with this and that.

 

The other problem with taking a games missed average as pure evidence of health is that it doesn't give us any details - like times when a coach may have held the player in reserve for strategic reasons, or because he was getting jaded from overuse, or because it was the club's third match in seven days and he just plain needed a breather. No matter how fit they are these guys are still humans, not machines.

 

So you think he might be injury prone then?

[zequist]

 

So you think he might be injury prone then?

 

No. When someone says "injury prone", that makes me think of guys like Vaughn, Rodwell, Van Persie, Ledley King, or Michael Owen, who rarely seemed to last two months without ending up back on the treatment table with another 3-4 week injury. I've never put Phil in with that group. He'll get dinged up occasionally, like any player, but not constantly like those guys.

 

Incidentally, I am starting to lean towards adding Pienaar to that category among our current players, along with Gibson. Ol' Stevie's only managed to put in 25 or more league appearances once in the past five seasons while dealing with a whole raft of injuries (including three separate spells on the sidelines last year for hamstring and knee problems).

[Bill]

He's always going off to the African Cup or whatever its called, so he will mis half a dozen games each season. i think its only as he is getting older that the injuries come along more easily. I mean look at me, I'm injured every day.

[StevO]

No. When someone says "injury prone", that makes me think of guys like Vaughn, Rodwell, Van Persie, Ledley King, or Michael Owen, who rarely seemed to last two months without ending up back on the treatment table with another 3-4 week injury. I've never put Phil in with that group. He'll get dinged up occasionally, like any player, but not constantly like those guys.

 

Incidentally, I am starting to lean towards adding Pienaar to that category among our current players, along with Gibson. Ol' Stevie's only managed to put in 25 or more league appearances once in the past five seasons while dealing with a whole raft of injuries (including three separate spells on the sidelines last year for hamstring and knee problems).

JD, I was being sarcastic.

 

He's always going off to the African Cup or whatever its called, so he will mis half a dozen games each season. i think its only as he is getting older that the injuries come along more easily. I mean look at me, I'm injured every day.

He retired from international football in 2012. And he is only a few years behind you! Edited July 24, 2014 by StevO

[Bill]

Yeah, just a few years behind me Steve I wish.

[Matt]

Everton Football Club

2 mins ·

BREAKING: John Stones signs new five-year contract.

[MikeO]

 

Everton Football Club

2 mins ·

BREAKING: John Stones signs new five-year contract.

 

 

Brilliant news!

[MikeO]

"The last 12 months have been so enjoyable thanks to the faith that the manager has shown in me and all the players."

“It’s a big dream come true signing this contract at such an amazing club.”

“The main thing is that I have got to play well for Everton and that is my big goal.”

“I’m learning off Jagielka, Distin and Alcaraz every day. I’m getting better, stronger and wiser.”

“We want to better ourselves this season. We are aiming for the top four.”

[JoeQuince]

Woooooo!!!

 

Let's hope he's gotten all of his sloppy play and lapses in judgment out of the way in preseason though. He's been a bit of a mess. (Though, honestly, I feel a lot of that actually has come off of Hibbert not keeping up)

[thoward18]

Absolutely brilliant. What Roberto Martinez has done is amazing. New contracts for Baines, Coleman, Barkley, and Stones. Bringing in Lukaku and Besic. Getting Galloway and (eventually) Henen for the future. This club is in a very good state.

[Matt]

Absolutely brilliant. What Roberto Martinez has done is amazing. New contracts for Baines, Coleman, Barkley, and Stones. Bringing in Lukaku and Besic. Getting Galloway and (eventually) Henen for the future. This club is in a very good state.

Indeed, though I'm concerned now we've used the last of our cash. No strictly a bad thing in my opinion, having the majority of the squad (and the manager) tied down for quite a while, just need McCarthy sorted too.

[MC11]

[Paddock]

Great news.