MikeO Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist? - no premiership experience - some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better. - no european experience He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though! As Mark pointed out earlier though, we're in a very different position to the one we were in eleven years ago so we don't need or want someone to do the job Moyes did, it's already been done. We need someone to (try to) move us to the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Without banging the drum again Di Matteo won the Champions League, would you think that experience would suit us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenosetoffee Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) These are the odds at the moment for the manager job. Top 20. Roberto Martinez 15/8 Neil Lennon 7/2 Gus Poyet 8/1 Alan Stubbs 16/1 Vitor Pereira 20/1 Malky Mackay 20/1 Mark Hughes 20/1 Duncan Ferguson 22/1 Phil Neville 25/1 Ole Gunnar Solskjaer 25/1 David Weir 28/1 Stuart McCall 28/1 Rafael Benitez 33/1 Martin O'Neill 40/1 Michael Laudrup 40/1 Harry Redknapp 40/1 Dougie Freedman 40/1 Martin Jol 40/1 Roberto Di Matteo 50/1 Steve Clarke 50/1 Roberto Martinez record - better defenders at Everton though http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/clubs/managers/profile.overview.html/roberto-martinez Michael Laudrup - 40/1 - http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/clubs/managers/profile.overview.html/michael-laudrup Mark Hughes - Just for shits and giggles http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/clubs/managers/profile.overview.html/mark-hughes Harry Redknapp compared to Hughes - bare in mind Redknapp shits money up the walls whenever he can. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/clubs/managers/profile.overview.html/harry-redknapp Edited May 15, 2013 by bluenosetoffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 That's one sorry list of names Mike for a club like ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 They have a strong side Tonk. They might not be all well known, but if you take a close look there is quality. Maloney, Mcarthy, Beausejour, Kone, and Di Santo are all strong players in my mind. None of these players play across the back line except for Beausejour, and he's no Baines by any means.. I definitely wouldn't consider them a strong side. Wigan may have been relegated under Martinez, but I don't believe that reflects his quality. He's also won a trophy and Wigan is in Europe now, which was our main focus before this season started. Everton is a superior team with superior players than Wigan. They don't run the same risk of relegation. Pundits have been expecting Wigan to be relegated for years. Matt and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Lennon second favorite then, one behind Martinez - who suffered a club relegation last night - then Gus Poyet (?), and the list got more ridiculous as it went along. Say what you like, but having names like (proper managerial names like) O Neill and Redknapp lagging behind runners such as Alan Stubbs, Hughes and Ferguson (!), that's a bit of a dumb list I'm afraid. Fuck knows where this is going to end. We could have Doris Day as new manager by start of new season the way things are headed, but some of those names, if not placements, are questionable to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Martinez in his time at Wigan has only managed 15th and 16th places, and eventually relegation. His playing days were mediocre with mediocre clubs, and his managerial record at this level suggests the only reason Everton would hire him, is because he is used to not having money; hardly a great reason. Assistant perhaps, but not manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Fair enough to say most people only wanted Martinez for getting a club (an unfashionable club let's be fair) to an FA cup Final, and actually going on to win the damn thing. He's not the first name in recent years to have taken lesser recognized clubs to an honor or trophy or recognition, so what in that respect makes him so much greater. Ok he did well, it was a very good achievement this season, a great one, in actual fact, in getting the FA cup for Wigan, but that's just over four or five months, six or seven games against different level of opponents where anything can occur, get a bit of luck, go a long way, whereas the league season is spread over nine months and week in week out against not to greatly different caliber of opponents, and the fact of the matter is, Martinez, in those nine months, couldn't keep his club up, and FA cup win or not, some will rightly see him as a failure. Say again, I hope we don't get him. And if he is indeed favorite for the vacancy, well that's a bit of concern this end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) I've made my points -- as have others. We'll just have to wait and see who the next manager is and then look at the end of next season to see who's right. Edited May 15, 2013 by TonkaRoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 I've made my points -- as have others. We'll just have to wait and see who the next manager is and then look at the end of next season to see who's right. It still raises a smirk when you remember the panic some were in - and must be now - that when Moyes finally vacates (as he has) the club will be in free-fall and suffer a relegation or very near miss. Ok, the stabilizers may be off, now Moyes has gone (or will go) and there's a bit more freedom to roam than the usual restrictions when the Scot finally clears his desk, and it may a be a little rocky at first with a new name in charge, but it's ridiculous to even envisage the club will be relegated now safety-first Davie has taken employment elsewhere. Just saying no panic, that's all But as you rightly said, it's all just talk at the moment. We still await who will takeover from Moyes - and somebody, somewhere, will be upset with the choice you can be sure - but the proper time to maybe address this is when the actual individual has been disclosed and then we can let loose Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFC-Paul Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Av both Villa and Liverpool wanted Martinez. I'm not sure what any managers playing career has to do with it but Moyes Fergie Mourinho Where hardly house hold names. To say he's assistant material is very harsh on his abilities then to suggest Round who is just that is baffling.. Round has shown very little of himself in any managerial regard apart form the odd post match interview and has no high end experience in the hot seat what so ever. Moyes was an unknown quantity at the time but was given time to develop the squad and himself in the process and we are past the point now of taking a risk on an unknown as we did back then. Martinez is not my first choice but I can see why he his others and I do think he could do a good job here if given the opportunity. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) I just think using Wigan as a benchmark is a bit unfair in regards to Martinez's ability. Edited May 15, 2013 by TonkaRoost barryj and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Martinez in his time at Wigan has only managed 15th and 16th places, and eventually relegation. His playing days were mediocre with mediocre clubs, and his managerial record at this level suggests the only reason Everton would hire him, is because he is used to not having money; hardly a great reason. Assistant perhaps, but not manager. As I have mentioned before, his points tally across those seasons averaged less than one point per season worse than the 3 years before he was at Wigan who at that point were spending much more on wages and transfers. His managerial record also has an FA Cup winner which isnt bad for an 'assistant' manager. This 'assistant' manager also took your beloved Moyes' team apart in our own back yard with a bucket load of injuries and far less resources. The same man who then executed the perfect game plan to beat City in the final itself. I don't deny that Martinez has some frailties but he has a lot of positives with the way he handles his players, his philosophy of how the game should be played and his ability to win big games. He may or may not build upon the foundations built by Moyes but he is the best domestic candidate that I can see alongside Laudrup who probably wouldn't come here anyway. StevO, Sibdane and Toffee_in_LA 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) Moyes took us as far as he could and we should thank him for that. If anybody thinks a new manager, whoever it may be, can take us any further, they must be living in cuckoo land. Like moyes himself at Man Utd, the only way we can go is down, i'll be happy if we get in the top 10 next year. How are we expected to compete with Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs, and liverpoo, they will spend Hundreds of millions on top Players, so we have no chance of going any further than we already have. Edited May 15, 2013 by Bill Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalziel Kane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 We have a chance of going further in the cup tournaments William. Moyes departure will see to that, and you would expect the next name in charge to be a little more adventurous. An improvement on going static nearing finals if we can manage it and no big game nerves as we have seen before under his tenure. Ok it's all about opinions and there will be debates and argument, but can't really change that thinking. It's not always down to money in order to win something, as Laudrup and Martinez have proved this season, or buckets of cash or investment in order to succeed, although a helping financial hand, in order to compete is what the club could use, but there you are. But as Tonka Roost said before, maybe the thing to do here, is simply wait for the new name to be disclosed and then we can make proper judgments, as everything's a bit up in the air at the moment and things remain unclear as to where our immediate future lies with regards to a new name and a fresh challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 As I have mentioned before, his points tally across those seasons averaged less than one point per season worse than the 3 years before he was at Wigan who at that point were spending much more on wages and transfers. His managerial record also has an FA Cup winner which isnt bad for an 'assistant' manager. This 'assistant' manager also took your beloved Moyes' team apart in our own back yard with a bucket load of injuries and far less resources. The same man who then executed the perfect game plan to beat City in the final itself. I don't deny that Martinez has some frailties but he has a lot of positives with the way he handles his players, his philosophy of how the game should be played and his ability to win big games. He may or may not build upon the foundations built by Moyes but he is the best domestic candidate that I can see alongside Laudrup who probably wouldn't come here anyway. So he earned less points, and, got them relegated, but hey ho, we'll have him. Whoever gets the job at Everton should be the most proven and best, of all the candidates. If that proves to be Martinez, great, but there are lots of managers in the world, and Martinez has not earned the opportunity in my eyes. I couldn't give a toss if they have won a cup. Managing a Prem team over 38 games is very different, and Martinez has done shite in his time in the Prem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) So he earned less points, and, got them relegated, but hey ho, we'll have him. Whoever gets the job at Everton should be the most proven and best, of all the candidates. If that proves to be Martinez, great, but there are lots of managers in the world, and Martinez has not earned the opportunity in my eyes. I couldn't give a toss if they have won a cup. Managing a Prem team over 38 games is very different, and Martinez has done shite in his time in the Prem. Moyes guided Preston's promotion to Division 1; Martinez guided Swansea to the Championship. Edited May 15, 2013 by TonkaRoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Moyes guided Preston's promotion to Division 1; Martinez guided Swansea to the Championship. We're a long way from 1992 Tonk. We are now 'easily' the best team we've had since our league winning side. We now need experience, as experience is what held us back from taking the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 We're a long way from 1992 Tonk. We are now 'easily' the best team we've had since our league winning side. We now need experience, as experience is what held us back from taking the next step. But you suggested Steve Round? Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 But you suggested Steve Round? I 'asked' how you would feel. I think Round is a bright cookie, but I didn't 'suggest' he became manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romey 1878 Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 I 'asked' how you would feel. I think Round is a bright cookie, but I didn't 'suggest' he became manager. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 One Question: 11 years ago who would have put David Moyes on their shortlist? - no premiership experience - some success with Preston NE, but their were plenty of other championship teams doing better. - no european experience He obviously had the right skills to do a fantastic job though! I think Martinez is a similar mould and he would be my choice. If we selceted an experienced (top division and european) and successful with a large transfer/wage budget and European I think it would be a very expensive mistake with us probablyt ending up the next Leeds Utd. Moyes would probably not have gotten the job, had our situation in 2002 reflected our situation in 2013. Such is the great job Moyes has done. He hasn't just done it for a season or 2 either, but he has made us believe we can win the league again, when all feared relegation. To use his low status, as a new manager in 2002, to signify that it will be ok to install another low status manager is bonkers. We are about to replace a man who has been courted by possibly the top club in World Football, because he has shown he is a remarkable manager. Moyes is not the same manager as he was 11 years ago, and we are not the same club. If we want to take the next step forward, we need to be absolutely confident that the right man will be employed. It should not be somebody that we like, but somebody that knows how to do the job, and if it costs us a few quid, so be it. Sell somebody, and get the right man. Romey 1878, StevO and Matt 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) So he earned less points, and, got them relegated, but hey ho, we'll have him. Whoever gets the job at Everton should be the most proven and best, of all the candidates. If that proves to be Martinez, great, but there are lots of managers in the world, and Martinez has not earned the opportunity in my eyes. I couldn't give a toss if they have won a cup. Managing a Prem team over 38 games is very different, and Martinez has done shite in his time in the Prem. I don't see how you can say he has done shite in his time in the prem. I for one think he has done a very good job with a low budget, terrible attendances and he gets them to play a decent style of football. I think you need to look at his time at Swansea as well as Wigan. He (along with Sousa) transformed them into the club they are today. His team on winning the league, easily out scored every other club and the goal difference was huge. I believe it's important that we build on what Moyes has started and simply by looking for the same 'style' of manager we won't progress. We also need a manager who has the right characteristics for this great club. I don't want a whinger, blame everybody except themselves type of person. Everton need another loyal, intelligent, hardworking and tactical manager. Martinez fits this criteria. As long as we don't get Lennon I'm happy (& of course Hughes!) Edited May 15, 2013 by barryj StevO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 I think we need to remember that Everton, unfortunately, aint a choice for real top managers. By this I mean poor finance, dated stadia, not in europe and still likely to have to sell to buy. So the list of possibilities may seem poor, but who else is there? None of the 'top line' managers who can look forward to Champions League football will be interested...so how many does that rule out across europe? And the next lot of '2nd tier' managers will have their teams in the Europa next season, that probably rules out another lot across europe. So, after that, we have to pick the 'best of the rest'...but this means they most likely dont have fantastic record...probs aint won a cup, might have had the odd promotion from a lower league, maybe finished mid table with a unfancied team on a strict budget. Its not gonna be a household name is it? And whoever it is wont be every fans choice. Im still a Martinez fan on the basis of the fact he has kept Wigan up for 3 years longer than they have been, plays good football, is very highly regarded by football EXPERTS (surely this says something in itself?), but also, and quite a strong point, he is still only 39 and has so much more to offer. But, my 100% support to whoever it ends up being. barryj 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Roberto Mancini is the manager we should get because he won the league last year and he spends loads of money on boss players, Martinez is poo cos he got relegated and his team has no star players on FIFA 13. Matt and StevO 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Piss taking aside, mourinho or SAF would struggle to get that Wigan team doing better than Martinez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Roberto Mancini is the manager we should get because he won the league last year and he spends loads of money on boss players, Martinez is poo cos he got relegated and his team has no star players on FIFA 13. Don't spoil a decent debate with sarcasm. We both know if Martinez gets the job and he doesn't get off to a flyer, he'll be in your crosshair by Christmas, and hung drawn and quartered by spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Roberto Mancini is the manager we should get because he won the league last year and he spends loads of money on boss players, Martinez is poo cos he got relegated and his team has no star players on FIFA 13. Exactly. Thats what Avin seems to think. Mancini is dead good and that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blueboy122 Posted May 15, 2013 Report Share Posted May 15, 2013 Don't spoil a decent debate with sarcasm. We both know if Martinez gets the job and he doesn't get off to a flyer, he'll be in your crosshair by Christmas, and hung drawn and quartered by spring. Who would you have over Martinez then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avinalaff Posted May 16, 2013 Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 Exactly. Thats what Avin seems to think. Mancini is dead good and that. I do ? Who would you have over Martinez then? Ha ha, it would be somebody less popular with the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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