Michael Keane

[Romey 1878]

Dier's very versatile - he's shit in two positions, not just one.

[Gwlad]

In a way I'm pleased he's not to be at risk of injury in a crappy international and can kick on after the break helping us get the highest finish we can.

[Shukes]

10 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Dier's very versatile - he's shit in two positions, not just one.

Hahaha post of the year! Tickled me that one.

[MikeO]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-england-rio-ferdinand-decision-20223867?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange

[Matt]

47 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-england-rio-ferdinand-decision-20223867?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=exchange

Strange world when he makes sense 

[Bailey]

I think Godfrey has shown he is too inexperienced at the top level and wouldn't be in the plans for the Euros.

With Keane, I think it is more playing style than anything else. At international level you aren't going to drop deep and head ball after ball away. Southgate wants to play out from the back and with a high line (at the moment) and you wouldn't pick Keane for that job. I wouldn't pick Mings for it either though because he is in the same mould.

[pete0]

Just seen the goal again and it's not even amateur level. Holgate and Mina both get torn apart for much less. He done similar twice earlier in the game as well. 

If we make the top four I reckon he'll be the first player out the door. Good thing for him he's doing his best to make sure that doesn't happen. Fucking joke of defender.

[Matt]

34 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Just seen the goal again and it's not even amateur level. Holgate and Mina both get torn apart for much less. He done similar twice earlier in the game as well. 

If we make the top four I reckon he'll be the first player out the door. Good thing for him he's doing his best to make sure that doesn't happen. Fucking joke of defender.

When you don’t like a player you don’t half go for them, don’t you?  

[Romey 1878]

He really was poor for their goal but he's not the only one culpable for it, and that is something that happens a lot to us this season. When one player messes up you expect another to clean that mess up because they're switched on, but we have players that compound a previous mistake.

[Tonsta]

Criticism of Holgate & Godfrey only happens when they are asked to play FB they are CBs and should be judged when playing there proper position.

Where as Kean always plays at CB,  and his criticism is justified. 

[StevO]

He saved many a goal this season, so I won’t be too concerned by him. I’m more concerned it wasn’t 3-0 at that point. 

[dunlopp9987]

4 hours ago, Tonsta said:

Criticism of Holgate & Godfrey only happens when they are asked to play FB they are CBs and should be judged when playing there proper position.

Where as Kean always plays at CB,  and his criticism is justified. 

Would have to disagree with ya there, friend. We praised Holgate yesterday for his performance at CB, and you better believe we've criticised his performances at CB too

[Palfy]

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

He really was poor for their goal but he's not the only one culpable for it, and that is something that happens a lot to us this season. When one player messes up you expect another to clean that mess up because they're switched on, but we have players that compound a previous mistake.

Totally agree everyone will mess up and when it happens, others need to read or expect it can happen and place themselves in a better position to deal with it, teaching people to read the game is one of the hardest things to do, the players who have that instinct are the better players and that is what separates them from the average players, unfortunately we still have a few to many in the average category. 

[Tonsta]

4 hours ago, dunlopp9987 said:

Would have to disagree with ya there, friend. We praised Holgate yesterday for his performance at CB, and you better believe we've criticised his performances at CB too

What i meant was Holgate never gets to settle in one position, he is constantly asked to swap positions, and i think that does not help him at all, Keane always plays CB.

But yes Holgate has had poor games at CB.

[London Blue]

He was good yesterday, his passing was pretty accurate. 

[Bailey]

I don't think he does a lot wrong for the goal. He has to come inside to cover Schlupp and potentially Zaha. He doesn't know whether or not Mina is going to get across and can't take the risk that he is. 

Keane might be the one left looking awkward at the end but there were many others that could have stopped that goal.

[pete0]

14 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I don't think he does a lot wrong for the goal. He has to come inside to cover Schlupp and potentially Zaha. He doesn't know whether or not Mina is going to get across and can't take the risk that he is. 

Keane might be the one left looking awkward at the end but there were many others that could have stopped that goal.

He completely abandons the goal scorer, the player he's meant to be marking. 

If he doesn't know Mina is going the ball that's another negative against him. Keep marking your own man and if in doubt give your teammate a shout.

[Btay]

20 hours ago, StevO said:

He saved many a goal this season, so I won’t be too concerned by him. I’m more concerned it wasn’t 3-0 at that point. 

If it were Mina or Holgate they would be getting ripped apart though instead of finding excuses for it. 

Keane’s had his best season by far this year, really started to show himself as a top team defender but he has plenty of moments in him that really make you wonder - unfortunately for him most have cost goals and even points.

[StevO]

55 minutes ago, Btay said:

If it were Mina or Holgate they would be getting ripped apart though instead of finding excuses for it. 

Keane’s had his best season by far this year, really started to show himself as a top team defender but he has plenty of moments in him that really make you wonder - unfortunately for him most have cost goals and even points.

There are people who have issues with players and find fault in whatever they do. 

I don’t personally have an issue with any of our centre halves, and doubt I’ve ripped any of them apart or found excuses for them. I don’t mind which of the four play, but I do believe Keane has been the best of them this season. I like all of them. 

That said, I don’t put that goal down to one player making an error. That goal was coming. We were under more and more pressure as the game went on. We were conceding chances, we weren’t keeping hold of the ball in midfield and we didn’t hold up the play when the ball got to the forwards. The team as a whole gave that goal away as far as I’m concerned. No individual error. 
 

While we’re talking about Keane specifically, which moments lead to goals and costing us points? Genuine question. Because all that’s coming to my mind is the hundreds of blocks, headers, clearances and tackles. I honestly can’t remember him costing us points. 

[Hafnia]

Michael Keane has been one of our better centre halves if not the best this season.

Does this mean ball watching will be eradicated from his game or that he won't make mistakes?  No.  

I can't find fault with his attitude to the game or our club.  I wish I could say the same for Holgate, who is arguably a more gifted athlete and ball player.

The issue we have is that we have 4 decent centre halves and no top quality centre halves.  This is why we need to get koulibaily - you could partner him with any of the other 3/4 and make them look far better. 

You can argue cases of who should play between any of the other 4 and not have too much disparity.  You couldn't argue about it if we got koulibaily - that's where we need to be at.  He would probably kick Richarlisons arse over the the free kick bollocks too. 

 

This whole "oooh Keanes made a mistake let's try and paint his whole season as a mistake riddled affair and forget his top perfoances where I picked A N Other for motm when they quite clearly weren't" is just shit.  I haven't been a Pickford fan and it may take alot for me to trust him.... Does that mean I shouldn't vote or recognise his best games? No. That would make me a prick.... And whilst I may be a prick if like that to be for other reasons and not my inability to be fair. 

[Bailey]

18 hours ago, pete0 said:

He completely abandons the goal scorer, the player he's meant to be marking. 

If he doesn't know Mina is going the ball that's another negative against him. Keep marking your own man and if in doubt give your teammate a shout.

This is just wrong. As a defender with 3 players on your agenda, you have to mark the most dangerous space, which he did. If he stays wide there are easy balls between him and Mina to Batshuayi (especially as the defensive line is straight) and there is the shorter ball to Zaha to burst into the space between Mina and Keane.

 

5 hours ago, Btay said:

If it were Mina or Holgate they would be getting ripped apart though instead of finding excuses for it. 

Keane’s had his best season by far this year, really started to show himself as a top team defender but he has plenty of moments in him that really make you wonder - unfortunately for him most have cost goals and even points.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but if it is you will see I have blamed Keane for plenty of goals this season. He has just been left carrying the monkey on this one and the easy thing to do it blame him instead of looking at why he was left in that position.

[pete0]

Find it mad you're trying so hard to justify it. He doesn't mark the space. He goes to the ball.

To even say he goes to block that pass raises even more questions. On what planet is the best option to block a pass further away from goal leaving a player unmarked in the box the right thing to do?

Then again you thought Gomes weren't too blame last week when he didn't stay goal side. Keane's this week is just as bad. It's stuff you'd shout at a school boy level, yet we've got blokes getting paid a £100k a go week doing shit you wouldn't see in a Sunday league.

 

[Shukes]

5 hours ago, Bailey said:

This is just wrong. As a defender with 3 players on your agenda, you have to mark the most dangerous space, which he did. If he stays wide there are easy balls between him and Mina to Batshuayi (especially as the defensive line is straight) and there is the shorter ball to Zaha to burst into the space between Mina and Keane.

Agreed. He try’s to split them. If he stays with his man, he makes it an easy decision for the other attacker. Coaches teach defenders to make the attacker make the decision.

Split the attackers and make the angle as difficult as possible, makes a pass more difficult and usually creates indecision.

[Bailey]

3 hours ago, pete0 said:

Find it mad you're trying so hard to justify it. He doesn't mark the space. He goes to the ball.

To even say he goes to block that pass raises even more questions. On what planet is the best option to block a pass further away from goal leaving a player unmarked in the box the right thing to do?

Then again you thought Gomes weren't too blame last week when he didn't stay goal side. Keane's this week is just as bad. It's stuff you'd shout at a school boy level, yet we've got blokes getting paid a £100k a go week doing shit you wouldn't see in a Sunday league.

 

At that moment the least dangerous person is Batshuayi. He has the tightest angle to goal giving the keeper the best chance of making the save. 

Even if you don't agree with that, what do you think about these:

1. Should Davies get closer to Milivojevic?

2. Should Godfrey / Siggy track Zaha?

3. Should Schlupp be allowed 5 yards of space in all directions just outside our 18 yard box? 

4. Should the goalkeeper be diving towards his near post?

Those 4 points all refer to really shoddy defensive decisions for a team defending a 1-0 lead. The first 3 decisions all combine to impact Keane's decision making where he is faced with at least a 2 v 1 situation with Batshuayi and Zaha, but potentially a 3 v 1 situation if Mina cant get close enough to Schlupp. 

 

[Btay]

10 hours ago, Bailey said:

This is just wrong. As a defender with 3 players on your agenda, you have to mark the most dangerous space, which he did. If he stays wide there are easy balls between him and Mina to Batshuayi (especially as the defensive line is straight) and there is the shorter ball to Zaha to burst into the space between Mina and Keane.

 

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but if it is you will see I have blamed Keane for plenty of goals this season. He has just been left carrying the monkey on this one and the easy thing to do it blame him instead of looking at why he was left in that position.

Not aimed at anyone in particular mate just a general statement.

Think we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this

[pete0]

8 hours ago, Bailey said:

At that moment the least dangerous person is Batshuayi. He has the tightest angle to goal giving the keeper the best chance of making the save. 

Even if you don't agree with that, what do you think about these:

1. Should Davies get closer to Milivojevic?

2. Should Godfrey / Siggy track Zaha?

3. Should Schlupp be allowed 5 yards of space in all directions just outside our 18 yard box? 

4. Should the goalkeeper be diving towards his near post?

Those 4 points all refer to really shoddy defensive decisions for a team defending a 1-0 lead. The first 3 decisions all combine to impact Keane's decision making where he is faced with at least a 2 v 1 situation with Batshuayi and Zaha, but potentially a 3 v 1 situation if Mina cant get close enough to Schlupp. 

 

Because he's being marked. As soon as Keane moves he makes him the most dangerous and hands them the goal on a plate.

1. Davies. No, he's in a bank of 4 with the rest of the midfield and goes to close when necessary. Any fan blaming him either knows nothing about football or is a shit fan who blames him for everything.

2. Yea, and they'd be getting moaned at if Zaha had any influence in the goal. But he never.

3. That's on Gbamin for not seeing the run and cutting the passing lane. Still very unlikely to concede from that position with Mina closing down.

4. How's the keeper meant to know what way to go with such little time to react? He has to gamble. You're blaming the keeper for not saving a one on one blast from 10 yards away?

The first two don't impact at all. Keane reacts to the third one but he shouldn't. He should have left it to Mina. The amount of points he's lost us is the difference between champions League football or not. 

[StevO]

14 hours ago, pete0 said:

The amount of points he's lost us is the difference between champions League football or not. 

So you’re putting this one down to him, fine. But what other lost points are you putting down to Keane?

Also, how many points gained and points won are you putting down to him?

Do you allow him the equaliser against Liverpool? Does he get the one against West Brom that put us 3-2 up? How about the winner against Wolves? 
 

If you’re going to call him out for points lost (I do want to see what anyone considers lost points from him) you also have to take into account points gained. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, StevO said:

So you’re putting this one down to him, fine. But what other lost points are you putting down to Keane?

Also, how many points gained and points won are you putting down to him?

Do you allow him the equaliser against Liverpool? Does he get the one against West Brom that put us 3-2 up? How about the winner against Wolves? 
 

If you’re going to call him out for points lost (I do want to see what anyone considers lost points from him) you also have to take into account points gained. 

Already said both Man u games.

Says a lot when you're pointing out goals as things a centre half has done well. 

What matches has he done more than what you'd expect from any average centre half?

[StevO]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Already said both Man u games.

Says a lot when you're pointing out goals as things a centre half has done well. 

What matches has he done more than what you'd expect from any average centre half?

It doesn’t say a lot, but if he does things that costs goals but scores them too it should all be taken into account as it all relative to the points the team gets. 

So just the two United games then? That’s not so bad, dropping points against the second best team in the league. I’ll take that. 
 

He has performed well enough to be considered above average. You must be the only person who hasn’t seen a massive improvement in him this season. Of our four centre halves hes clearly been the best one. If you can’t see that then it’s obvious he is just another player who you don’t like and therefore will never give credit and will always look to criticise. 

[pete0]

16 minutes ago, StevO said:

You must be the only person who hasn’t seen a massive improvement in him this season. Of our four centre halves hes clearly been the best one.

He's better than the utter dogshit he was when he first came, but my nan could have done a better job than he did his first season. Now he's average at best. 

Better than them? Our biggest game this season just happens to be the one he was dropped for. 

22 minutes ago, StevO said:

So just the two United games then? That’s not so bad, dropping points against the second best team in the league. I’ll take that. 

Were did I say that? I said off the top of my head. Gonna apologise for being manipulative and trying to twist it?