Ronald Koeman

[rubecula]

2 minutes ago, Newty82 said:

Cheeky bastard, !

Fuck aLL rong wiv mozts puncutation on here, Or they're grammah. Or there anything reelly.

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, rubecula said:

It shows through to me.  Grammar correct, punctuation seems to be correct,  possibly wasted on here, but nice to read

You missed a full stop at the end .

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, London Blue said:

You missed a full stop at the end .

He was off sick from school the day they covered full stops; he's all over commas though.

[London Blue]

6 hours ago, wolf8312 said:

Well nobody knows the future so I am willing to accept I may be wrong, I mean like I said we could end up getting relegated!

Yeah sure tactics are important but I seriously believe so is a positive and supporting atmosphere. If you boo your own team at half time for example, all you really end up doing is making your own team nervous, and actually fearful of their own crowd which becomes counter productive!

Imagine trying to do a job like that, waking up everyday to read how you're a dead man walking with planes literally flying past your head reading 'you suck' ! It would contaminate everything from your staff right down to the players themselves and unfortunately for managers  its a very negative consequence of instant/social media.

The negativity that can be whipped up within a matter of months, and directed against a manager these days is just astonishing, and in large part it comes from a sometimes toxic relationship between the fans, the media/social media, and the players themselves, with each feeding off, and being influenced by the other. 

David Moyes was the prime and most extreme example, of how the fans, media, and players can mutually influence one another in a negative sense, to bring about a managers dismissal, but with pretty much the same result (Van Gaul) in the end, and at great expenditure. 

We know now that the players and even his assistant manager Ryan Gigg's were undermining David Moyes at every opportunity because basically they just looked down upon him as a nobody who hadn't ever won anything. He was never given a fair chance, because the Man U players considered him beneath them before he had even walked into the dressing room. The players he brought in such as Fellani and Mata were declared to be total rubbish, by man U fans and a massive waste of money. But they were and are great players as time would tell them... 

I do honestly believe that if fans just waited a season or two before they started protesting and hiring out planes, then the manager would be much more likely to turn things around as he wouldn't be under such an enormous burden of pressure and hostile negativity. But in this day and age that just isn't going to happen I guess...

It's true that there is a symbiotic relationship between the fans and the team, one is fed by and fulled by the other. From a rocking stadium to a hate filled cauldron, atmospheres can make or break a team. I last visited Goodison for the Burnley game and the atmosphere was ok, there was no booing, but the tension was palpable, which is such a change from last season when Goodison was a fortress,  the fans were expectant, and the team full of swagger. A massive change in such a short space of time.

The question is why? I believe that when Koeman joined he gave the team much needed fitness, aggression and belief. He had a system he knew and players that made it work. This season for whatever reason he has tried to implement a system that dominates the midfield without using wide players, or pace. He insists on using two defensive midfielders, and playing players out of position to make the system work. 

The fans have watched, willed and hoped that it would work, but it has not, yet Koeman seems to refuse to change. Most fans have given Koeman time. I gave him till after the Burnley game, and having seen it live came to the conclusion that Koeman is incapable of change or leading us out of this slump. That is what infuriates fans, its the impotence of not being able to change things they know are not working. All this has led to large numbers of fans losing faith in the manager, I think the players have lost faith in the manager, and judging by the Lyon match the manager loosing faith in himself.

In this age of instant gratification, we are generally too impatient, and yes flying planes around ground with banners is a step to far. Everton fans are generally quite patient, but even we know a hopeless situation when we see it, and we are watching it now.

The added expectation added by our new chairman and his vision means that there is an added pressure for managers, but then if we want to crack the top six or four don't we need a manager who can cope with that?

 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, MikeO said:

He was off sick from school the day they covered full stops; he's all over commas though.

[rubecula]

2 hours ago, London Blue said:

You missed a full stop at the end .

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

He was off sick from school the day they covered full stops; he's all over commas though.

 

back on topic though  Koeman is under pressure, however, so is Bilic, and oddly so is Conte who won the league last season.  I think Koeman has nothing to worry about.

[Hafnia]

7 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

could have fooled me Haf, i thought that was your only motivator

Spot on....Like you being as sickly as fuck with someone your dalliance/idealistic like opinion agrees with?  

[markjazzbassist]

22 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Spot on....Like you being as sickly as fuck with someone your dalliance/idealistic like opinion agrees with?  

It’s so interesting how we each perceive others on the forum.  I get where you are coming from, then I think of MC comments about how I just agree with everyone and don’t have an opinion for myself.  Totally at odds with your perception.

 

like football, I guess we all see the forum differently.  

 

honestly haf there are many things I agree with you on.  I don’t “have it out for you”, sure every once in a while I bait you and play the wum, guilty as charged.  But on the whole you’re a quality poster (not that my opinion of you matters), but for some reason the things you and I are passionate about (Lukaku, koeman, barkley, etc) seem to always be at odds.  Eh so be it.

 

in the pensive mood tonight, apologies to the other posters for a long one.  

[Newty82]

5 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

It’s so interesting how we each perceive others on the forum.  I get where you are coming from, then I think of MC comments about how I just agree with everyone and don’t have an opinion for myself.  Totally at odds with your perception.

 

like football, I guess we all see the forum differently.  

 

honestly haf there are many things I agree with you on.  I don’t “have it out for you”, sure every once in a while I bait you and play the wum, guilty as charged.  But on the whole you’re a quality poster (not that my opinion of you matters), but for some reason the things you and I are passionate about (Lukaku, koeman, barkley, etc) seem to always be at odds.  Eh so be it.

 

in the pensive mood tonight, apologies to the other posters for a long one.  

Give yourself a slap if you call that a long post.

You want a long post? I'll give you a long post.

Hey Haf, tell us a bit about both Lukaku's and Koemans weaknesses......

[Romey 1878]

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/10/20/williams-we-are-trying-extra-hard-for-boss

[Hafnia]

16 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/2017/10/20/williams-we-are-trying-extra-hard-for-boss

Yeah him more so.... he should have been dropped like a stone. 

[wolf8312]

11 hours ago, London Blue said:

It's true that there is a symbiotic relationship between the fans and the team, one is fed by and fulled by the other. From a rocking stadium to a hate filled cauldron, atmospheres can make or break a team. I last visited Goodison for the Burnley game and the atmosphere was ok, there was no booing, but the tension was palpable, which is such a change from last season when Goodison was a fortress,  the fans were expectant, and the team full of swagger. A massive change in such a short space of time.

The question is why? I believe that when Koeman joined he gave the team much needed fitness, aggression and belief. He had a system he knew and players that made it work. This season for whatever reason he has tried to implement a system that dominates the midfield without using wide players, or pace. He insists on using two defensive midfielders, and playing players out of position to make the system work. 

The fans have watched, willed and hoped that it would work, but it has not, yet Koeman seems to refuse to change. Most fans have given Koeman time. I gave him till after the Burnley game, and having seen it live came to the conclusion that Koeman is incapable of change or leading us out of this slump. That is what infuriates fans, its the impotence of not being able to change things they know are not working. All this has led to large numbers of fans losing faith in the manager, I think the players have lost faith in the manager, and judging by the Lyon match the manager loosing faith in himself.

In this age of instant gratification, we are generally too impatient, and yes flying planes around ground with banners is a step to far. Everton fans are generally quite patient, but even we know a hopeless situation when we see it, and we are watching it now.

The added expectation added by our new chairman and his vision means that there is an added pressure for managers, but then if we want to crack the top six or four don't we need a manager who can cope with that?

 

Yeah good post man I understand what you're saying!

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, markjazzbassist said:

It’s so interesting how we each perceive others on the forum.  I get where you are coming from, then I think of MC comments about how I just agree with everyone and don’t have an opinion for myself.  Totally at odds with your perception.

 

like football, I guess we all see the forum differently.  

 

honestly haf there are many things I agree with you on.  I don’t “have it out for you”, sure every once in a while I bait you and play the wum, guilty as charged.  But on the whole you’re a quality poster (not that my opinion of you matters), but for some reason the things you and I are passionate about (Lukaku, koeman, barkley, etc) seem to always be at odds.  Eh so be it.

 

in the pensive mood tonight, apologies to the other posters for a long one.  

You are good at wumming i will give you that. 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, wolf8312 said:

Yeah good post man I understand what you're saying!

Thanks mate, I appreciate that.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

If Koeman had a plan and stuck to  it, even though it wasn't working,  we at least could see what he was trying to do.  The fact is that he is continually changing things, game to game and first-half to second-half which gives the, not unreasonable, impression of sheer panic.  The 'give him time' lobby should consider how the season is going to pan out if he continues with this strategy.

That view point , and I’m not saying you’re wrong, just goes to prove he’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t

He was getting slated for being too stubborn and sticking with the same formation / players , he changes both then gets slated for panicking

Clearly there is a problem if we are coming towards the end of October and he doesn’t know his best eleven or formation but I think that’s a consequence of making such whole sale changes

It was the perfect storm , a lot of new players needing time to bed in coupled with an absolute nightmare set of opening fixtures which has resulted in the players being sapped of any confidence

Add to that the failure to replace Lukaku and it’s easy to understand why we’re in this mess

If he has lost the dressing room then unfortunately there’s no coming back from this, but given the fight and spirit the players showed against Lyon I honestly don’t think that’s the case

I’m still firmly on the fence , I can understand the calls for him to go but personally I still think he needs more time to turn it around , the problem is I can’t see how he , or any other manager, can turn it around until we bring a decent striker in

[MikeO]

5 minutes ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

That view point , and I’m not saying you’re wrong, just goes to prove he’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t

He was getting slated for being too stubborn and sticking with the same formation / players , he changes both then gets slated for panicking

Clearly there is a problem if we are coming towards the end of October and he doesn’t know his best eleven or formation but I think that’s a consequence of making such whole sale changes

It was the perfect storm , a lot of new players needing time to bed in coupled with an absolute nightmare set of opening fixtures which has resulted in the players being sapped of any confidence

Add to that the failure to replace Lukaku and it’s easy to understand why we’re in this mess

If he has lost the dressing room then unfortunately there’s no coming back from this, but given the fight and spirit the players showed against Lyon I honestly don’t think that’s the case

I’m still firmly on the fence , I can understand the calls for him to go but personally I still think he needs more time to turn it around , the problem is I can’t see how he , or any other manager, can turn it around until we bring a decent striker in

 

Spot on.

[Quinn31]

7 hours ago, Newty82 said:

Give yourself a slap if you call that a long post.

You want a long post? I'll give you a long post.

Hey Haf, tell us a bit about both Lukaku's and Koemans weaknesses......

You forgot David Moyes 

[Newty82]

2 hours ago, Quinn31 said:

You forgot David Moyes 

Theres forum bandwidth to pay for mate!!!

[pete0]

Don't understand the argument for a striker to make the difference. The defence needs an overhaul aside from Pickford. 

Baines - too slow to do the job of a wing back. 

Keane - his movement is that slow you can anticipate everything he does. His passing is atrocious. He also can't jump, but luckily he's tall.. The only positive thing you can say about him. Simply not good enough.

Williams - getting leggy, can't jump. Performance was much improved in Thursday but not at the standard you'd want starting every week. 

Martina - good crosser. Not good enough for Soton. Not good enough for Everton.

Schneiderlin - good vision/passer when confident. Too weak, too slow, no passion, no guts. 

Gana - good energy. Can't do anything over the half way line. Gets wrong sided too easily, makes unnecessary takles because he can't position himself/read the game. 

Striker wise. Rooney is on course for 15 goals which is about what you'd expect. Should be looking at the midfields lack of contribution (again) but the defence is the major issue. 

[Cornish Steve]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Don't understand the argument for a striker to make the difference. The defence needs an overhaul aside from Pickford. 

Baines - too slow to do the job of a wing back. 

Keane - his movement is that slow you can anticipate everything he does. His passing is atrocious. He also can't jump, but luckily he's tall.. The only positive thing you can say about him. Simply not good enough.

Williams - getting leggy, can't jump. Performance was much improved in Thursday but not at the standard you'd want starting every week. 

Martina - good crosser. Not good enough for Soton. Not good enough for Everton.

Schneiderlin - good vision/passer when confident. Too weak, too slow, no passion, no guts. 

Gana - good energy. Can't do anything over the half way line. Gets wrong sided too easily, makes unnecessary takles because he can't position himself/read the game. 

Striker wise. Rooney is on course for 15 goals which is about what you'd expect. Should be looking at the midfields lack of contribution (again) but the defence is the major issue. 

And this is a nail in Koeman's coffin: If nothing else, he's supposed know what it takes to build a solid defence, yet he's really failing in this area. I understand we're missing Coleman, although his strength is more his movement down the wing, so that's a factor, but did Koeman really believe Martina was the answer? Maybe Funes Mori is more important to our defence than we realized.

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

That view point , and I’m not saying you’re wrong, just goes to prove he’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t

He was getting slated for being too stubborn and sticking with the same formation / players , he changes both then gets slated for panicking

Clearly there is a problem if we are coming towards the end of October and he doesn’t know his best eleven or formation but I think that’s a consequence of making such whole sale changes

It was the perfect storm , a lot of new players needing time to bed in coupled with an absolute nightmare set of opening fixtures which has resulted in the players being sapped of any confidence

Add to that the failure to replace Lukaku and it’s easy to understand why we’re in this mess

If he has lost the dressing room then unfortunately there’s no coming back from this, but given the fight and spirit the players showed against Lyon I honestly don’t think that’s the case

I’m still firmly on the fence , I can understand the calls for him to go but personally I still think he needs more time to turn it around , the problem is I can’t see how he , or any other manager, can turn it around until we bring a decent striker in

 

I don't know or particularly care if he's been damned  for not changing or damned for changing his tactics, what ever he does he is 100% responsible for the team and the way they play simple no ifs or buts.

For me he has been given the best opportunity of any manager we've had in the last 30 years to do something special, and in nearly 18 months in charge he has failed miserably, in fact imo he has taken us backwards, the man is an utter joke, no clue no man management no passion.

The board need to grow some bollocks and put him and the supporters out of this misery, and find a new man to evaluate what he's left us with, and give him a bit of time prepare for the January window to get in what he needs.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

I don't know or particularly care if he's been damned  for not changing or damned for changing his tactics, what ever he does he is 100% responsible for the team and the way they play simple no ifs or buts.
For me he has been given the best opportunity of any manager we've had in the last 30 years to do something special, and in nearly 18 months in charge he has failed miserably, in fact imo he has taken us backwards, the man is an utter joke, no clue no man management no passion.
The board need to grow some bollocks and put him and the supporters out of this misery, and find a new man to evaluate what he's left us with, and give him a bit of time prepare for the January window to get in what he needs.

I note that you say ‘ in nearly 18 months in charge he has failed miserably ‘ does that mean you consider last season a failure ?

If not surely my points are relevant ?

[Newty82]

I agree with shouts about the defence. As one of his 'backers' (if you like!), this has been a concern for me. Doesn't need explaining, it speaks for itself.

At the other end of the pitch, I disagree with shouts of 'if only we had that big number 9'. I don't think that guy would make much more difference, honestly don't.

The plan was based around scoring more goals from the guys just behind the striker. Koeman said himself he doesn't want most the goals from one man upfront.

And I disagree that we've bought a load of shite. These players are much better than this. But we've made wholesale changes this past year. This, I think, was another difficult thing for the club. Fans were getting restless about spending money...so it's another 'doomed if we do, doomed if we don't.

I've no doubt at all that Koeman and the players are better than this. It's just a question of can he sort it out before the club is forced to swing the axe?

I've no idea personally!!!

 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

 

 

I note that you say ‘ in nearly 18 months in charge he has failed miserably ‘ does that mean you consider last season a failure ?

If not surely my points are relevant ?

 

 

 

To be honest yes I do, I know you will say finishing 7th was a success but to me it never felt that way, and that's because we played a lot of terrible football last season some worse than this imo, but we weren't punished for our poor performances because of Lukaku's goals.

[rubecula]

I have always said that you can not win a game without scoring goals, I have no idea where the pretty passing and keeping the ball stuff took precedence but unless we get over it very quickly, we will be in deep shit.  I can not see it happening with Koeman in charge.

[Bailey]

13 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

That view point , and I’m not saying you’re wrong, just goes to prove he’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t

He was getting slated for being too stubborn and sticking with the same formation / players , he changes both then gets slated for panicking

Clearly there is a problem if we are coming towards the end of October and he doesn’t know his best eleven or formation but I think that’s a consequence of making such whole sale changes

It was the perfect storm , a lot of new players needing time to bed in coupled with an absolute nightmare set of opening fixtures which has resulted in the players being sapped of any confidence

Add to that the failure to replace Lukaku and it’s easy to understand why we’re in this mess

If he has lost the dressing room then unfortunately there’s no coming back from this, but given the fight and spirit the players showed against Lyon I honestly don’t think that’s the case

I’m still firmly on the fence , I can understand the calls for him to go but personally I still think he needs more time to turn it around , the problem is I can’t see how he , or any other manager, can turn it around until we bring a decent striker in

 

The points I would make it  reply to this are:

 

1. He hasn't been changing with a set plan. It's not like he has dropped the rubbish and played the form players. He has whipped players in and out of different systems,  changing way too many things at half time. Sometimes it happens, things don't work so you have to change it. No problem with that, however it feels like every other game we are making a big change even in system or personnel at half time or before.

 

2. On the dressing room side I'm still not convinced. They were dreary and dreadful that first half. We were a bit better coming out in the 2nd but again we were easing off when the brawl happened and everyone picked up. I don't think he has lost the dressing room as such but I'm not convinced that the players are truelly playing for their manager either.

[Hafnia]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5004409/Everton-manager-Ronald-Koeman-s-strongman-act-turns-sour.html

Ah so this is the "wait for food" issue I heard of weeks ago. 

[johnh]

GOODBYE KOEMAN.

[Quinn31]

Got to go. It's not going to get better under him. Saw plenty of fight early from the players but absolutely opened up in the second half. 

RK is clueless.

[Shukes]

Did you hear his after match interview? Worse than Martinez.