Ronald Koeman

[Paddock]

Leighton as captain for me.

 

In the whole Martinez debate, I still find it strange that Bill got so much credit for appointing Moyes all them years ago, and then credit for appointing Martinez in the first year. But hasn't really taken any criticism for Martinez being so poor, or for the ridiculous second contract.

Just an observation.

Kenwright should be sacked on the spot for giving him that contract but it's never going to happen.

[Paddock]

 

I really don't get the extreme reaction - other than passion overriding logic. We didn't play horrendous football: we played entertaining football. We weren't even close to being relegated, we reached two cup semifinals, and played in Europe. Martinez' downfall was a lack of focus on defence leading to an inability to hold on to a lead. This led to clear discouragement, the players losing heart and confidence in the manager, and the fans doing the same. Let's not pretend we had two years of horrendous football near the relegation zone, because it's just not true.

 

Yes, it's possible to have rose-coloured spectacles, but it's also possible to have shit-coloured specs, and that's what I'm seeing here.

If you think beating Stoke 3-2 with 8 minutes to go then getting beat 4-3 or Bournemouth 2-0 and 3-1 and drawing 3-3, Chelsea, getting hammered by the likes of Sunderland, finishing 11th 2 seasons running and having our worst home record ever despite having nowhere near our worst squad ever is entertaining football then that's yur right but don't be shocked when people call it out as totally unacceptable.

 

It's not extremism or passion talking it's knowing thatthat isn't anywhere near acceptable for our football club.

[Shukes]

Entertainment my football is playing in a way that entertains though... not results.

We were known as possibly the most entertaining team in the premier. Neutrals loved us. Now they find us boring.

 

So you would rather go out of both cups in the first round than get to two semi finals? You find going out first hurdle exciting? Two way coin really.

 

Myself? I would rather us climb the league and do better in the cups, maybe win one. Martinez wasn't good enough.

But the football was entertaining then and not this boring roll over and have our belly rubbed stuff.

 

I am hoping that now Koeman has a few more jigsaw pieces we will see his real style come out and it will be a mixture of attacking but defensively solid football.

 

Here's hoping!

[Romey 1878]

I'd argue that during season two and three of Martinez' reign we were not entertaining for the most part to be honest. First season, yes, entertaining in the extreme. I loved going to Goodison, even if we didn't win I'd know that most games we'd play open, expansive football and have a good crack at it. But after that? Goodison became a morgue, and not only because we weren't winning - the football was sterile, it was slow, pedestrian and mind-numbing to watch. I'd dread going to watch us, there was more talking amongst the fans than I've ever heard before because people were just not interested in watching the football in front of them.

[Lowensda]

I'd argue that during season two and three of Martinez' reign we were not entertaining for the most part to be honest. First season, yes, entertaining in the extreme. I loved going to Goodison, even if we didn't win I'd know that most games we'd play open, expansive football and have a good crack at it. But after that? Goodison became a morgue, and not only because we weren't winning - the football was sterile, it was slow, pedestrian and mind-numbing to watch. I'd dread going to watch us, there was more talking amongst the fans than I've ever heard before because people were just not interested in watching the football in front of them.

 

Absolutely this.

[Paddock]

I'd argue that during season two and three of Martinez' reign we were not entertaining for the most part to be honest. First season, yes, entertaining in the extreme. I loved going to Goodison, even if we didn't win I'd know that most games we'd play open, expansive football and have a good crack at it. But after that? Goodison became a morgue, and not only because we weren't winning - the football was sterile, it was slow, pedestrian and mind-numbing to watch. I'd dread going to watch us, there was more talking amongst the fans than I've ever heard before because people were just not interested in watching the football in front of them.

Exactly. Both my kids stopped wanting to go. Can you imagine being 8 and 7 (at the time) being football mad but not wanting to go the match?

 

That's what Martinez brought. Dross, shit crab stryle pass back football. 80% possession and 1 shot on target.

[StevO]

I've said for a long time, possession based football leads to bad atmospheres. There's no highs and lows to get the crowd up, no aggression on the pitch to get it in the stands. It's just boring.

[Shy_Talk]

Apologists and revisionists. Shameful.

 

Goodison initially with ructions of discontent slowly turned to outright seething dislike and booing, lots of it, not the side, not individual players simply the gaping anus that was pretending to be a manager.

 

#Legacy

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/the-toe-poke/65/post/2870184/everton-cancel-awards-night-after-sacking-roberto-martinez

 

Daft clown outfits (prophetic?), EGM misuse, protests over Kirkby...it's some going when eventually the club listened to the support who were turning up to the end of season awards to protest the fraud managing the side. Imagine it had all gone ahead. What a fiasco.

 

And somehow undercover reds are having a laugh trolling, blues are on a wind up, or the fraud and his cronies are continuing to post support for his legacy as crack-pot manager, "entertaining football" what a joke, it very much appears to me a last ditch clutch at straws to legitimise criticising Koeman. Sad.

[Sibdane]

Apologists and revisionists. Shameful.

 

Goodison initially with ructions of discontent slowly turned to outright seething dislike and booing, lots of it, not the side, not individual players simply the gaping anus that was pretending to be a manager.

 

#Legacy

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/the-toe-poke/65/post/2870184/everton-cancel-awards-night-after-sacking-roberto-martinez

 

Daft clown outfits (prophetic?), EGM misuse, protests over Kirkby...it's some going when eventually the club listened to the support who were turning up to the end of season awards to protest the fraud managing the side. Imagine it had all gone ahead. What a fiasco.

 

And somehow undercover reds are having a laugh trolling, blues are on a wind up, or the fraud and his cronies are continuing to post support for his legacy as crack-pot manager, "entertaining football" what a joke, it very much appears to me a last ditch clutch at straws to legitimise criticising Koeman. Sad.

 

zzzzzzzzz

[Paddock]

I've said for a long time, possession based football leads to bad atmospheres. There's no highs and lows to get the crowd up, no aggression on the pitch to get it in the stands. It's just boring.

Steve, the football was just dreadful. Everyone has a right to like and dislike whatever they see, I accept that but what we witnessed mostly during Martinez was dull tip tap football that was awful to watch.

 

And people are moaning about Koemans brand.

[aaron]

Apologists and revisionists. Shameful.

 

Goodison initially with ructions of discontent slowly turned to outright seething dislike and booing, lots of it, not the side, not individual players simply the gaping anus that was pretending to be a manager.

 

#Legacy

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/the-toe-poke/65/post/2870184/everton-cancel-awards-night-after-sacking-roberto-martinez

 

Daft clown outfits (prophetic?), EGM misuse, protests over Kirkby...it's some going when eventually the club listened to the support who were turning up to the end of season awards to protest the fraud managing the side. Imagine it had all gone ahead. What a fiasco.

 

And somehow undercover reds are having a laugh trolling, blues are on a wind up, or the fraud and his cronies are continuing to post support for his legacy as crack-pot manager, "entertaining football" what a joke, it very much appears to me a last ditch clutch at straws to legitimise criticising Koeman. Sad.

His first season was entertaining football though some of the best football I saw us play was that season.

Do you get paid to post shite about Martinez? Honestly give it a rest with the personal attacks on him. Yes he was shite but you don't need to constantly post bollocks about him, we get it, you hate him, well done, move on from him.

[StevO]

I agree Pad, me and my mate would be sat back in our seats. If I'm sitting back I'm not being entertained. Edge of the seat is where I want to be. Didn't get that in year two and three from Roberto.

I think Koeman will have us playing at a higher tempo and with more aggression, getting the crowd up.

The Arsenal game was the first time I felt that for a couple of years.

[Lowensda]

If I'm sitting back I'm not being entertained.

 

I can't physically sit back with our similar sized guys beside me. I wasn't on the edge of my seat because I was being entertained...

[Shy_Talk]

His first season was entertaining football though some of the best football I saw us play was that season.

Do you get paid to post shite about Martinez? Honestly give it a rest with the personal attacks on him. Yes he was shite but you don't need to constantly post bollocks about him, we get it, you hate him, well done, move on from him.

 

No doubt about it, the majority of the first season was good, but, out of the league cup (3rd round) to Fulham, and volleyed out of the fa cup QF 4-1 to Arsenal.

I'm not immune, I let myself believe for a minute or so that this was it - on the cusp of greatness again, oddly enough it was beating Arsenal 3-0 at Goodison, it was in our hands and I fell for it. palace at home and saints away and that was it. Fifth. (we had gotten hugely lucky at sunderland, og Brown)

So far as 'shite about martinez' unfortunately for you the truth hurts. so far as my "constantly post bollocks about him", the facts speak for themselves, someone pipes up with how great we were under his stewardship I'm gonna be there to remind them just how awful it was. He turned us into the naff wigan side he moulded that shipped record goals, so for all this 'we were the neutrals choice' thats a load of pap as well, its our support that needs entertaining and having success brought to us.

 

The current 'entertaining' arguement is an illusion to put pressure on Koeman with, fraudo was bobbins and started off with a much sturdier side than Koeman has been tasked to fix. We crawl out of fraudo's nuclear winter together or we stay stuck in the wilderness for another few decades. Apologists, it's up to you.

[Shukes]

Apologists and revisionists. Shameful.

 

Goodison initially with ructions of discontent slowly turned to outright seething dislike and booing, lots of it, not the side, not individual players simply the gaping anus that was pretending to be a manager.

 

#Legacy

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/the-toe-poke/65/post/2870184/everton-cancel-awards-night-after-sacking-roberto-martinez

 

Daft clown outfits (prophetic?), EGM misuse, protests over Kirkby...it's some going when eventually the club listened to the support who were turning up to the end of season awards to protest the fraud managing the side. Imagine it had all gone ahead. What a fiasco.

 

And somehow undercover reds are having a laugh trolling, blues are on a wind up, or the fraud and his cronies are continuing to post support for his legacy as crack-pot manager, "entertaining football" what a joke, it very much appears to me a last ditch clutch at straws to legitimise criticising Koeman. Sad.

What are you actually talking about?

 

If you read the posts I don't think I have saw one single person prefer Martinez over Koeman.

 

But a lot of people can't see the difference that Koeman has made YET! ... sorry that's wrong, we're out of both cups at the first hurdle and around the same points as last year.

 

Just because people can see through the compensation etc. Doesn't make them Martinez appologists.

 

All I know is that up until this point our football has been deject of any passion, heart or effort. Neutrals find us boring....or at least the ones I talk to....and commentators find is mundane....even our own beloved ex players.

 

That is unnaceptable for me. Everton has a history and we need to get back to writing more of it, not just fading away.

[markjazzbassist]

I liked Martinez and wanted him here before we hired him. loved the first year. struggled through the second year but backed him. third year I wore tired and wanted rid.

 

if he had fired that assistant of his (Graeme jones) and hired a proper manager to help with the defense I think he could have been quality. turned ross and Gerry into good players, and lukaku, barry, McCarthy, Holgate, foulds, etc good signings.

 

no reason to torch the guy, he left, leave him be.

[Shukes]

Same here. I stuck by him up until last season then I just lost all confidence in him. Never seemed to have a plan B which was worrying.

But I think he gave it his best, he just isn't up to this standard.

[London Blue]

Same here. I stuck by him up until last season then I just lost all confidence in him. Never seemed to have a plan B which was worrying.

But I think he gave it his best, he just isn't up to this standard.

This

[MC11]

Moyes final season was just as good football as Martinez first!

[markjazzbassist]

Moyes final season was just as good football as Martinez first!

 

except once he'd "accepted" the united gig and that last run of games were shambolic, you could tell he didn't care anymore.

[London Blue]

Moyes final season was just as good football as Martinez first!

Really? I grant you we played some good football that season, but nowhere near as attractive, attacking, or at times dominating we played under Martinez in that first season. At times we played breathtaking stuff, especially the 3-0 drubbing we gave Arsenal at GP.

[Shy_Talk]

What are you actually talking about?

 

If you read the posts I don't think I have saw one single person prefer Martinez over Koeman.

 

But a lot of people can't see the difference that Koeman has made YET! ... sorry that's wrong, we're out of both cups at the first hurdle and around the same points as last year.

 

Just because people can see through the compensation etc. Doesn't make them Martinez appologists.

 

All I know is that up until this point our football has been deject of any passion, heart or effort. Neutrals find us boring....or at least the ones I talk to....and commentators find is mundane....even our own beloved ex players.

 

That is unnaceptable for me. Everton has a history and we need to get back to writing more of it, not just fading away.

 

Koeman is having to cut the decayed flesh from this Everton body, the poison that fraudo infected the squad with is not easily healed, we have good players that have been undermined in their respective games by the conman, instilling new belief, restructuring confidence, and having the squad enjoy playing again is no overnight job. Some of the players look shot, some will never regain their best performances, the scorched earth policy of the last regime is almost total and quite simply put Koeman is a godsend for having us top half and slowly turning the squad around.

 

Thank the lord the youth setup produced a few lads fraudo didn't brainwash, that we've made it to another window and are shuffling players in as well as out, so what if this season is a write-off, it was always going to be that way because of the paid-off-prick.

 

Theres quite a lot of this view (on here but elsewhere too) that Koeman hasn't changed all that much, well we aint shipping goals like we used too and have lost once in the league at Goodison. That's not job done, but by fuck its a start,the only realistic start that could have been made.

 

It's quite out of order laying into Koeman this early, so when it happens i'mgoing to be only too happy to callout fraudo time and again. As Koeman rights the many wrongs in the side, the calls of failed improvements and passionless displays will die back. It's an awful shame more weren't calling out fraudo as early as they are Koeman now, we definitely would not have had to take so many steps backwards to stop the rot before we can start to move forward.

 

I never thought my fellow Evertonians would end up demanding success instantly like so many know-nothing tit-heads that infest so many other clubs, we've come through a massive illness and the healing is still happening, bad medicine or not alls we can do is take it for now and reassess come the summer.

[Shukes]

so you think Martinez was the stronger character than Koeman.

 

At first I thought you were quite witty and sarcastic, but now I think you really believe your own bullshit haha.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

[Hafnia]

 

Koeman is having to cut the decayed flesh from this Everton body, the poison that fraudo infected the squad with is not easily healed, we have good players that have been undermined in their respective games by the conman, instilling new belief, restructuring confidence, and having the squad enjoy playing again is no overnight job. Some of the players look shot, some will never regain their best performances, the scorched earth policy of the last regime is almost total and quite simply put Koeman is a godsend for having us top half and slowly turning the squad around.

 

Thank the lord the youth setup produced a few lads fraudo didn't brainwash, that we've made it to another window and are shuffling players in as well as out, so what if this season is a write-off, it was always going to be that way because of the paid-off-prick.

 

Theres quite a lot of this view (on here but elsewhere too) that Koeman hasn't changed all that much, well we aint shipping goals like we used too and have lost once in the league at Goodison. That's not job done, but by fuck its a start,the only realistic start that could have been made.

 

It's quite out of order laying into Koeman this early, so when it happens i'mgoing to be only too happy to callout fraudo time and again. As Koeman rights the many wrongs in the side, the calls of failed improvements and passionless displays will die back. It's an awful shame more weren't calling out fraudo as early as they are Koeman now, we definitely would not have had to take so many steps backwards to stop the rot before we can start to move forward.

 

I never thought my fellow Evertonians would end up demanding success instantly like so many know-nothing tit-heads that infest so many other clubs, we've come through a massive illness and the healing is still happening, bad medicine or not alls we can do is take it for now and reassess come the summer.

El fraudo nearly stole in on 4th place and did deliver 2 semi finals whichever way you look at it.

 

Was I happy with him? 1 good season - 1 poor season and the decider was poor so off he went.

 

Not one person can tell me they were onto him in the first season.... 99% of fans were singing of martinez's dream etc.

 

If they were calling him a fraud then they had that based on what?

 

The second season was shite but he had bought himself the chance of a third.

 

 

Onto koeman.... Let's not all get excited because he's spent £32m in january which looks like being £44m.... he hasn't improved us a great deal.

 

He fannies around with formations like he's playing a video game. I don't mind experimenting but when you find something that works - let the other team work you out... do t be trying to nullify them. It reminds me of moyes setting up against blackpool to nullify charlie fuckin Adam.

 

Simply put - i will reserve judgement on koeman but I've seen enough to concern me. One of which is that he doesn't look arsed in being here.

[Shy_Talk]

El fraudo nearly stole in on 4th place and did deliver 2 semi finals whichever way you look at it.

 

Was I happy with him? 1 good season - 1 poor season and the decider was poor so off he went.

 

Not one person can tell me they were onto him in the first season.... 99% of fans were singing of martinez's dream etc.

 

If they were calling him a fraud then they had that based on what?

 

The second season was shite but he had bought himself the chance of a third.

 

 

Onto koeman.... Let's not all get excited because he's spent £32m in january which looks like being £44m.... he hasn't improved us a great deal.

 

He fannies around with formations like he's playing a video game. I don't mind experimenting but when you find something that works - let the other team work you out... do t be trying to nullify them. It reminds me of moyes setting up against blackpool to nullify charlie fuckin Adam.

 

Simply put - i will reserve judgement on koeman but I've seen enough to concern me. One of which is that he doesn't look arsed in being here.

 

Nearly wasn't nearly enough.

 

Moyes delivered a final and parts of the support still hate him, the two semi's fraudo got us too ought to have been managed much differently.

 

There were calls the moment fraudo was appointed that Wigan fans were over the moon with him leaving, he couldn't set a defence, he only had one style of playin his locker etc.

 

I knew he was a wrong-un when we went to our old home, remember, January 28th 2014. That side, that setup, risking players just back from injury and expecting to stroke the ball around so easily, utter mania. It never occured to him that sometimes the draw can be the focus and not losing means the other side doesn't win.

 

I haven't taken to Koeman, his honesty has been refreshing but also grating, I don't like the Niasse treatment, I don't like the tampering that you've mentioned, but his task is massive and I don't believe he was properly prepared for the size of this job. Calling him out over Schneiderlin, Lookman and possibly Belfadil seems a touch harsh as none have actually played a minute for us yet, heres hoping if Belfadil is signed that he is to us what Pelle was to saints. (also, you can have a read about the state of the dutch side in the early 90's that Koeman was part of)

 

[note: I wonder how signings and transfers out will be spun, Walsh the king ofthe successes and Koeman gets to wear the underachievers]

[Shy_Talk]

so you think Martinez was the stronger character than Koeman.

 

At first I thought you were quite witty and sarcastic, but now I think you really believe your own bullshit haha.

 

Each to their own I suppose.

 

Is that for me? Not sure where strength of character comes from. One things for sure, if belief in ones self won leagues fraudo would have singlehandedly won everything. Sadly his self belief was his undoing and as the ship sank he was still barking orders for more speed.

[Bailey]

Fucking hell lads, Martinez is done now let's move on.

[StevO]

Fraudo, El Fraud, Clown Shoes, Manure!

 

Shy Talk, I get your passion mate. Nothing wrong with that. We're not kids. The stupid names just make you look like a dick head.

[Shukes]

 

Is that for me? Not sure where strength of character comes from. One things for sure, if belief in ones self won leagues fraudo would have singlehandedly won everything. Sadly his self belief was his undoing and as the ship sank he was still barking orders for more speed.

Not gonna argue anymore after this...or discuss, but I'm surprised you think that Martinez is such a strong character that he could branwash the likes of Jags, Barry, Baines etc. Who are seasoned internationals.

 

Anyway, everyone else is right...Martinez is gone, let's move on.

 

At this moment I am feeling slightly optimistic that Koeman could be shaping us a little. Let's see how the team lines up and what difference it makes.

[markjazzbassist]

http://www.espnfc.us/chelsea/story/3037845/jose-mourinho-sacking-cost-chelsea-8-3m-pounds-6-7m-pounds-spent-on-adidas-deal

 

fire elstone immediately. mourinho buyout 8.3m, Martinez 12m.