Paddock Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I'll give him time and a chance to prove himself. Just one point though, it's easy to say what you think and be honest. Diplomacy is a skill. So is being honest about how you feel Shukes. A lot of people hide that behind diplomacy. We should hang Martinez from a royal blue gallows from the gates to the Bramley Dock on the opening game of our new ground and leave him there pickled for years to warn any other managers this is what happens if you fuck Everton over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Martinez was terrible. he gave us so much hope in the first season then destroyed it with 2 years of horrendous football. He made us into a joke and made Southampton fans and Pundits think it was a step down for Koeman coming to Everton. Martinez would have happily spouted the same old sh*te week in week out until we got relegated. I genuinly cant stand the man, he had a nice guy approach but underneath i think there was more of a horrid side to him. TBF though the board should have sacked him earlier to save him from the abuse and also he should have never got the job in the first place. He was massively under qualified. Koeman has a massive job on his hands after Martinez. its a shame that Moshiri and Koeman didnt come in as Moyes left, that team would have suited Koeman more i feel and we probably could have pushed on quicker with less needing to be changed. But at least Koeman has a few years of experience in the prem under his belt now. Romey 1878 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 ...and made Southampton fans and Pundits think it was a step down for Koeman coming to Everton. From everything I've read on here over the last few months, this simple snippet is the most hard hitting and summarises the whole situation perfectly. dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Martinez was terrible. he gave us so much hope in the first season then destroyed it with 2 years of horrendous football. He made us into a joke and made Southampton fans and Pundits think it was a step down for Koeman coming to Everton. Martinez would have happily spouted the same old sh*te week in week out until we got relegated. I genuinly cant stand the man, he had a nice guy approach but underneath i think there was more of a horrid side to him. TBF though the board should have sacked him earlier to save him from the abuse and also he should have never got the job in the first place. He was massively under qualified. Koeman has a massive job on his hands after Martinez. its a shame that Moshiri and Koeman didnt come in as Moyes left, that team would have suited Koeman more i feel and we probably could have pushed on quicker with less needing to be changed. But at least Koeman has a few years of experience in the prem under his belt now. Excellent post Dean and sums my feelings up also. And your shout that the board should have got shut earlier is spot on. In all seriousness, as much as I hate what he done to us, I didn't enjoy any of the hate channeled towards him from our fan base but I also understood why it was there. It was just a horriible situation all round for everyone. I don't think he done anything on purpose, of course he didn't to suggest otherwise is just ridiculous but the way he single handedly destroyed us and refused to accept what he was doing wasn't working and the positive bullshit he tried to spin on it constantly still stick in my throat and probably always will. I also agree that his Mr nice guy persona is in some part a mask and he does have a smarmy I know better attitude underneath. dlblue, Lowensda and Romey 1878 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Excellent post Dean and sums my feelings up also. And your shout that the board should have got shut earlier is spot on. In all seriousness, as much as I hate what he done to us, I didn't enjoy any of the hate channeled towards him from our fan base but I also understood why it was there. It was just a horriible situation all round for everyone. I don't think he done anything on purpose, of course he didn't to suggest otherwise is just ridiculous but the way he single handedly destroyed us and refused to accept what he was doing wasn't working and the positive bullshit he tried to spin on it constantly still stick in my throat and probably always will. I also agree that his Mr nice guy persona is in some part a mask and he does have a smarmy I know better attitude underneath. From everything I've read on here over the last few months, this simple snippet is the most hard hitting and summarises the whole situation perfectly. Thanks :-) This is the reason all of the 'Koeman Out' supporters frustrate me, they dont seem to realise the damage caused over the last few years and the type of job Koeman has on his hands. I dont think there are any other managers in the Prem who could do a better job with this squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Thanks :-) This is the reason all of the 'Koeman Out' supporters frustrate me, they dont seem to realise the damage caused over the last few years and the type of job Koeman has on his hands. I dont think there are any other managers in the Prem who could do a better job with this squad. Yep, not just here but blues everywhere shouting Koeman out were lapping Martinez bullshit up whlst the whole infrastructure and top 6 finishing side was dismantled piece by piece in front of our eyes. It was absolutely shocking the state of the club when he was sacked, players had no discipline, they were basically doing what they wanted he was playing them out of position some of the shite he bought was horrendous, he mis managed Barkley imo when he needed a firm hand to guide him. It was just dreadful and I still stand by the fact he got lucky in his first season with Moyes team. The only thing I'll give him credit for is Lukaku. It got that desperate people where championing him for getting us to 2 semi finals!! We've dropped down in our expectations that much with him some of our fans were calling this a success. (Disclaimer, this isn't aimed at any poster here before anyone thinks it is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I have never seen two teams in such disarray as the one taken over by Joe Royle from Mike Walker and the one taken over by David Moyes from Walter Smith. Yet they were able to put their stamp on it almost immediately. The Martinez team inherited by Koeman is a technically far superior side with experience all over the place. So what's the difference? To me there were more "men" in the other 2 teams.... Watson, Dunc, Carsley, Parkinson, Our current lot are too nice. There is only seamus who has a bit of needle about him and a gob. Essentially Moyes and Royle were able to galvanise the team to really make a difference - Koeman hasn't been able to do that with our pedestrian bunch - whether its him or the players - it hasn't happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I have never seen two teams in such disarray as the one taken over by Joe Royle from Mike Walker and the one taken over by David Moyes from Walter Smith. Yet they were able to put their stamp on it almost immediately. The Martinez team inherited by Koeman is a technically far superior side with experience all over the place. So what's the difference? To me there were more "men" in the other 2 teams.... Watson, Dunc, Carsley, Parkinson, Our current lot are too nice. There is only seamus who has a bit of needle about him and a gob. Essentially Moyes and Royle were able to galvanise the team to really make a difference - Koeman hasn't been able to do that with our pedestrian bunch - whether its him or the players - it hasn't happened. Moyes second season he finished 17th! with our lowest points total. So even if he put his stamp on it instantly, it didnt work straight away. The difference imo is the qualitiy of the league now and the money involved in the clubs compared to when Royle and Moyes took over. We are 7th (best of the rest) the top 6 are extremely strong and gone are the days of an easy 3 points against the lower teams in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Our current lot are too nice. Yep. You should be disgusting on the pitch but a gentleman off of it. Leave everything on the pitch, be a "Monster" until you leave for the tunnel. Then become gracious and humble. Perfect mix. Sibdane and Hafnia 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newty82 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Our current lot are too nice. There is only seamus who has a bit of needle about him and a gob. This is a big thing for me. They seem like good pro's. But there is no 'bite' there. It's become evident in a number of games, and one of the reasons I feel Koeman can't quite get what he wants for 90 minutes. Mentally, too many of these players are either too weak or a bit scarred from the previous regime. We need a couple more players with the attitude of a Besic/McCarthy...they go toe to toe, they don't back down, they enjoy a bit of horn locking, macho chest to chest type shit. We don't need a full team of it (oh shit no!)...but having it in the spine of the team would change it so much and energise the rest of them plus the fans. These sort of players don't allow heads to drop, they rally the team when backs are against the wall, or when the team is under pressure. I think that's what Koeman is looking for as part of his jigsaw. Romey 1878, dlblue and Lowensda 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Besic is the only one who has that nasty streak, he's been sadly missed. Koeman has given everybody a go except for Niasse, if Besic gets himself fit he will be given a go, I think he's the sort of player Koeman likes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I also agree that we are far too nice on the pitch. dlblue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I have never seen two teams in such disarray as the one taken over by Joe Royle from Mike Walker and the one taken over by David Moyes from Walter Smith. Yet they were able to put their stamp on it almost immediately. The Martinez team inherited by Koeman is a technically far superior side with experience all over the place. So what's the difference? To me there were more "men" in the other 2 teams.... Watson, Dunc, Carsley, Parkinson, Our current lot are too nice. There is only seamus who has a bit of needle about him and a gob. Essentially Moyes and Royle were able to galvanise the team to really make a difference - Koeman hasn't been able to do that with our pedestrian bunch - whether its him or the players - it hasn't happened. Team full of foreigners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 It all starts with Phil Jagielka - love the fella but he doesn't make himself known enough. Phil Neville irritated me no end with his "damn good pro" act.... at United he was in referees faces. dlblue and markjazzbassist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Yep. You should be disgusting on the pitch but a gentleman off of it. Leave everything on the pitch, be a "Monster" until you leave for the tunnel. Then become gracious and humble. Perfect mix. Completely agree. Stay within the rules but push them to the limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 It all starts with Phil Jagielka - love the fella but he doesn't make himself known enough. Phil Neville irritated me no end with his "damn good pro" act.... at United he was in referees faces. our captain leads from the bench. shambolic I hope koeman appoints someone new in the summer. Potch took it from Vertonghen and gave it to Lloris, didn't upset the locker room and Vertonghen has actually played better since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 our captain leads from the bench. shambolic I hope koeman appoints someone new in the summer. Potch took it from Vertonghen and gave it to Lloris, didn't upset the locker room and Vertonghen has actually played better since. Who's your choice of captain? Williams is obviously a leading choice, I wouldn't give it Barkley (yet) Baines is a bit too "nice", a lot like jags in the sense of you understand why they are captain but would rather someone else have it, if that even makes sense! ha markjazzbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Who's your choice of captain? Williams is obviously a leading choice, I wouldn't give it Barkley (yet) Baines is a bit too "nice", a lot like jags in the sense of you understand why they are captain but would rather someone else have it, if that even makes sense! ha Coleman for me. He always works hard for the team, and he's not afraid to stick up for his teammates. Seems to have a bit of desire about him that the rest of the team is missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddock Posted January 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Coleman also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Who's your choice of captain? Williams is obviously a leading choice, I wouldn't give it Barkley (yet) Baines is a bit too "nice", a lot like jags in the sense of you understand why they are captain but would rather someone else have it, if that even makes sense! ha Coleman, Williams, Baines in that order. If we can get schneiderlin in and he makes a massive impact I'd think about offering it to him as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlblue Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Coleman for me too.I really dont think we have many options tbh. Id like to be able to look through and Everton team and see 5-6 candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 He's also the captain for Ireland, so he already has some experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwlad Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Seamus. I think he does have a passion for the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shukes Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Seamus. I think he does have a passion for the club Exactly what a captain needs. You don't have to be the best ability wise to be a captain, but someone who leads by example wears their heart on their sleeve. Shout at your team mates when things are going wrong and encourage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC11 Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Big Leightin Coleman for me. Terrific player Left footed and Irish captain. Enough said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Martinez was terrible. he gave us so much hope in the first season then destroyed it with 2 years of horrendous football. He made us into a joke and made Southampton fans and Pundits think it was a step down for Koeman coming to Everton. Martinez would have happily spouted the same old sh*te week in week out until we got relegated. I genuinly cant stand the man, he had a nice guy approach but underneath i think there was more of a horrid side to him. TBF though the board should have sacked him earlier to save him from the abuse and also he should have never got the job in the first place. He was massively under qualified. Koeman has a massive job on his hands after Martinez. its a shame that Moshiri and Koeman didnt come in as Moyes left, that team would have suited Koeman more i feel and we probably could have pushed on quicker with less needing to be changed. But at least Koeman has a few years of experience in the prem under his belt now. I really don't get the extreme reaction - other than passion overriding logic. We didn't play horrendous football: we played entertaining football. We weren't even close to being relegated, we reached two cup semifinals, and played in Europe. Martinez' downfall was a lack of focus on defence leading to an inability to hold on to a lead. This led to clear discouragement, the players losing heart and confidence in the manager, and the fans doing the same. Let's not pretend we had two years of horrendous football near the relegation zone, because it's just not true. Yes, it's possible to have rose-coloured spectacles, but it's also possible to have shit-coloured specs, and that's what I'm seeing here. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 When it comes to captain, there's something of a contradiction here. "Coleman would make a great manager" and, too often after games, "Coleman was invisible with no spark." In other words, he's patchy. Personally, if he can overcome his recent bout of injuries, I would make McCarthy captain - someone with spirit and a determination to win. I would also say Ross, but Koeman has yet to find how to restore his arrogance and confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Leighton as captain for me. In the whole Martinez debate, I still find it strange that Bill got so much credit for appointing Moyes all them years ago, and then credit for appointing Martinez in the first year. But hasn't really taken any criticism for Martinez being so poor, or for the ridiculous second contract. Just an observation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 I really don't get the extreme reaction - other than passion overriding logic. We didn't play horrendous football: we played entertaining football. We weren't even close to being relegated, we reached two cup semifinals, and played in Europe. Martinez' downfall was a lack of focus on defence leading to an inability to hold on to a lead. This led to clear discouragement, the players losing heart and confidence in the manager, and the fans doing the same. Let's not pretend we had two years of horrendous football near the relegation zone, because it's just not true. Yes, it's possible to have rose-coloured spectacles, but it's also possible to have shit-coloured specs, and that's what I'm seeing here. This millenias biggest crock of shit goes too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shy_Talk Posted January 11, 2017 Report Share Posted January 11, 2017 Leighton as captain for me. In the whole Martinez debate, I still find it strange that Bill got so much credit for appointing Moyes all them years ago, and then credit for appointing Martinez in the first year. But hasn't really taken any criticism for Martinez being so poor, or for the ridiculous second contract. Just an observation. tbc, coming to terms with the eye faeces just dealt with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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