Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Hafnia]

53 minutes ago, pete0 said:

They are all centre midfielders but like every other midfielder in the league, bar Gana, they are able to pass the ball forward. 

Attacking mids for them teams are: Soton are 442 so no AM but used to be Tadic, Gross/Grob however you wanna spell it, Kennedy, Schurrle, and Billing. 

So who's unbalanced in their opinion, me or you? 

You are picking players who have better progressive footballing ability than Gana but absolutely no where near his work rate, ball recovery, pressing.  

Would you pick a full back  who wasn't able to tackle well and gets beaten quite often just because he pings in a nice cross when he gets forward?   Essentially this is what you are implying.

As Silva said - No one in the Everton squad offers anywhere near the level of ball winning ability he has.  Silva clearly sees this as a vital attribute and something he needs in the team. Are you saying Silva doesn't know what he's doing? 

I'm sure if Davies, Schneiderlein, McCarthy, beningame had Ganas ball winning abilities it may be them in the side ahead of Gana..... they don't though. That's why for all their marginal or substantial ball playing abilities they aren't.....  that Silva sees the ideal midfield pairing being a maestro (gomes) and a ball winner. 

 

 

[pete0]

48 minutes ago, hafnia said:

You are picking players who have better progressive footballing ability than Gana but absolutely no where near his work rate, ball recovery, pressing.  

Would you pick a full back  who wasn't able to tackle well and gets beaten quite often just because he pings in a nice cross when he gets forward?   Essentially this is what you are implying.

As Silva said - No one in the Everton squad offers anywhere near the level of ball winning ability he has.  Silva clearly sees this as a vital attribute and something he needs in the team. Are you saying Silva doesn't know what he's doing? 

I'm sure if Davies, Schneiderlein, McCarthy, beningame had Ganas ball winning abilities it may be them in the side ahead of Gana..... they don't though. That's why for all their marginal or substantial ball playing abilities they aren't.....  that Silva sees the ideal midfield pairing being a maestro (gomes) and a ball winner. 

 

 

Fuck me "better progressive football ability", you serious you do realise you're basically agreeing with me saying Gana just runs around a lot and lacks in football ability. 

McCarthy and Baningime have both been out all season, stop being a Mr Trump. 

[Hafnia]

32 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Fuck me "better progressive football ability", you serious you do realise you're basically agreeing with me saying Gana just runs around a lot and lacks in football ability. 

McCarthy and Baningime have both been out all season, stop being a Mr Trump. 

You see..... I actually post a non offensive balanced post about what gana offers and doesn't offer and you turn into a 12 year old child in response.  Mr Trump indeed.

What you actually did was create a straw man... not that you realised it cos you still don't understand what the fuck it means. 

By saying that Gana is not a progressive footballer.... did I actually say he runs around a lot and lacks a football ability??? Did I?  No I didn't.  There is your straw man... right there. 

I stated clearly that no one in the team has ganas ability in winning the ball. 

I stated that Gana does not have the same level of progressive ability as others in the team.  I didn't say he lacks footballing ability.   

 

Getting desperate now PeteO...... tell me, is he still the worst player to play for Everton???

 

 

 

 

[aaron]

You two are beyond fucking boring now.

[pete0]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

You see..... I actually post a non offensive balanced post about what gana offers and doesn't offer and you turn into a 12 year old child in response.  Mr Trump indeed.

What you actually did was create a straw man... not that you realised it cos you still don't understand what the fuck it means. 

By saying that Gana is not a progressive footballer.... did I actually say he runs around a lot and lacks a football ability??? Did I?  No I didn't.  There is your straw man... right there. 

I stated clearly that no one in the team has ganas ability in winning the ball. 

I stated that Gana does not have the same level of progressive ability as others in the team.  I didn't say he lacks footballing ability.   

 

Getting desperate now PeteO...... tell me, is he still the worst player to play for Everton???

 

 

 

 

None offensive. You're as usual trying to belittle my opinion with your lies. All you do is bullshit and bully. Constant digs all over the forum. Hadn't even looked at this thread, but again it's fitting. You're pathetic. 

3 hours ago, hafnia said:

He's basically picking atracking/playmaker footballers to take Ganas place.  Team would be about as balanced as his opinion

 

[Hafnia]

40 minutes ago, aaron said:

You two are beyond fucking boring now.

No aaron what is boring and more to the point- fucking exhausting is that PeteO is following the same old pattern of Gana slating.

I gave him the courtesy of a very balanced critique and justification of his role in the side to which he got all stropph and called me Trump.  Actually lied/created a straw man to imply I said Gana was a headless chicken with no football ability.

Then when he's been well and truly put in his place he cries offence.

Linda Nolan-esque

[pete0]

12 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Then when he's been well and truly put in his place he cries offence.

Put in my place? Okay big man 

[Hafnia]

11 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Put in my place? Okay big man 

Listen Pete.  You want to debate about Gana - do so in a mature balanced manner. But you can't.

This morning's series is a prime example of what you are all about.  You took a balanced post and got all juvenile.  You got your post addressed and dismantled and you can't handle it. 

You are like the kid getting battered at monopoly - instead of just accepting defeat and declaring bankruptcy you try and trash the board. Grow up. 

[pete0]

5 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Listen Pete.  You want to debate about Gana - do so in a mature balanced manner. But you can't.

This morning's series is a prime example of what you are all about.  You took a balanced post and got all juvenile.  You got your post addressed and dismantled and you can't handle it. 

You are like the kid getting battered at monopoly - instead of just accepting defeat and declaring bankruptcy you try and trash the board. Grow up. 

Listen? Can you be anymore obnoxious? 

Wasn't balanced at all. You lied and you tried to belittle as you didn't have a proper argument so that's what you do. 

Can't handle it? Your the one who is having a melt down. Go give your head a wobble. 

The only thing I'm a loser for is responding to you. It's not about winning and losing, it's about discussion which obviously you can't do so you lie and rant and bully until people just can't be arsed with yer. You keep thinking you've 'won' like a bratty little child people can't be arsed trying to explain. Just shout louder until everyone can't be arsed. Crack on. 

[Hafnia]

Just now, pete0 said:

Listen? Can you be anymore obnoxious? 

The only thing I'm a loser for is responding to you. It's not about winning and losing, it's about discussion which obviously you can't do so you lie and rant and bully until people just can't be arsed with yer. You keep thinking you've 'won' like a bratty little child people can't be arsed trying to explain. Just shout louder until everyone can't be arsed. Crack on. 

Sorry Pete.... I'm not syanding for this one again

It's time you start substantiating some of the things you are saying. You throw your toys out the pram to avoid answering when you are cornered. 

1. Where have I lied?

2. Where have I bullied?  Don't confuse not staying silent to your trump jibes etc as bullying. You want to mix it then you will get some back.

3. Where is the rant?  I'm continually asking you to validate what it is you say.  I can't be held responsible for your posts - don't expect me to look a gift horse in the face. You make big bold claims that Gana is shit - prove it!

 

 

[pete0]

14 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Sorry Pete.... I'm not syanding for this one again

It's time you start substantiating some of the things you are saying. You throw your toys out the pram to avoid answering when you are cornered. 

1. Where have I lied?

2. Where have I bullied?  Don't confuse not staying silent to your trump jibes etc as bullying. You want to mix it then you will get some back.

3. Where is the rant?  I'm continually asking you to validate what it is you say.  I can't be held responsible for your posts - don't expect me to look a gift horse in the face. You make big bold claims that Gana is shit - prove it!

 

 

Not even gonna waste my time. 

[Elston Gunnn]

4 hours ago, hafnia said:

.....  that Silva sees the ideal midfield pairing being a maestro (gomes) and a ball winner. 

This is the issue that most interests me now.  I’ve criticized more than praised Gana, thinking him a “risk-reward disruptor,” but no playmaker nor shotmaker.  I’m always surprised when his shot comes anywhere near the net, and so noticed his hitting the post against Brighton.

That Silva seems to think Gana/Gomes is an “ideal midfield pairing” also seems to mean he has given up on his own previously stated ideal - a 4-4-2 setup.  Did Schneiderlin’s deficiencies expose Gana’s deficiencies, while Gomes’s “maestro” strengths allow Gana to flourish?  I think there must be unanimous hope/relief on TT that the Gana-Schneiderlin pairing is gone forever.

I want more attackers and so am somewhat leery of Silva’s conversion to 4-2-3-1.  But if Gomes is indeed a maestro and Gana-rewards easily outweigh his mistakes, perhaps their control (?) of the midfield would allow Coleman and Digne to attack down the wings more frequently.  I’d think this optimistic scenario far more likely in our next 3 upcoming home matches against beatable teams than in our next 3 upcoming away matches against the current top 3.  Palfy’s claim earlier in this thread that the big boys will take advantage of Gana’s positioning/space left unmarked mistakes is still a relevant issue for me.

I don’t know where all this leaves McCarthy.  Maybe 75th minute sub when we’re protecting a lead?

[Hafnia]

19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Not even gonna waste my time. 

Really??? You seem to have an awful lot of time to waste.  I mean your quite adept at trawling through posts and using the search function when it suits you.

No ... come on. I insist.  Show me where I've lied?   It's a big shout to make amongst much all else of the shit you like to throw around calling me Trump and a straw man. Start taking accountability for the shit you post or shut the fuck up.  Seriously had enough of your nonsense.  Create all sorts of noise and when it gets too hot you start throwing accusations out.  

 

Not on. 

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, Elston Gunnn said:

This is the issue that most interests me now.  I’ve criticized more than praised Gana, thinking him a “risk-reward disruptor,” but no playmaker nor shotmaker.  I’m always surprised when his shot comes anywhere near the net, and so noticed his hitting the post against Brighton.

That Silva seems to think Gana/Gomes is an “ideal midfield pairing” also seems to mean he has given up on his own previously stated ideal - a 4-4-2 setup.  Did Schneiderlin’s deficiencies expose Gana’s deficiencies, while Gomes’s “maestro” strengths allow Gana to flourish?  I think there must be unanimous hope/relief on TT that the Gana-Schneiderlin pairing is gone forever.

I want more attackers and so am somewhat leery of Silva’s conversion to 4-2-3-1.  But if Gomes is indeed a maestro and Gana-rewards easily outweigh his mistakes, perhaps their control (?) of the midfield would allow Coleman and Digne to attack down the wings more frequently.  I’d think this optimistic scenario far more likely in our next 3 upcoming home matches against beatable teams than in our next 3 upcoming away matches against the current top 3.  Palfy’s claim earlier in this thread that the big boys will take advantage of Gana’s positioning/space left unmarked mistakes is still a relevant issue for me.

I don’t know where all this leaves McCarthy.  Maybe 75th minute sub when we’re protecting a lead?

Schneiderlein has been rightly seen by many as a liability. A passenger.

More ability on the ball than Gana in terms of range of passing but he's not arsed.  Gana was resrltructed by him.

Gana is a great deputy. Like mascherano was for Gerrard.  Get it and give it. Schneiderlein hid.  Gomes wants the ball all the time. Finds space to take the ball off someone and uses it well. Perfect pairing for me. 

[StevO]

Why doesn’t one of you just not reply, and then the other not reply. It will go away nicely. 

[London Blue]

11 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Schneiderlein has been rightly seen by many as a liability. A passenger.

More ability on the ball than Gana in terms of range of passing but he's not arsed.  Gana was resrltructed by him.

Gana is a great deputy. Like mascherano was for Gerrard.  Get it and give it. Schneiderlein hid.  Gomes wants the ball all the time. Finds space to take the ball off someone and uses it well. Perfect pairing for me. 

This for me.

Gana gets it and gives it, Gomes uses it to push us forward. 

[markjazzbassist]

2 hours ago, Elston Gunnn said:

This is the issue that most interests me now.  I’ve criticized more than praised Gana, thinking him a “risk-reward disruptor,” but no playmaker nor shotmaker.  I’m always surprised when his shot comes anywhere near the net, and so noticed his hitting the post against Brighton.

That Silva seems to think Gana/Gomes is an “ideal midfield pairing” also seems to mean he has given up on his own previously stated ideal - a 4-4-2 setup.  Did Schneiderlin’s deficiencies expose Gana’s deficiencies, while Gomes’s “maestro” strengths allow Gana to flourish?  I think there must be unanimous hope/relief on TT that the Gana-Schneiderlin pairing is gone forever.

I want more attackers and so am somewhat leery of Silva’s conversion to 4-2-3-1.  But if Gomes is indeed a maestro and Gana-rewards easily outweigh his mistakes, perhaps their control (?) of the midfield would allow Coleman and Digne to attack down the wings more frequently.  I’d think this optimistic scenario far more likely in our next 3 upcoming home matches against beatable teams than in our next 3 upcoming away matches against the current top 3.  Palfy’s claim earlier in this thread that the big boys will take advantage of Gana’s positioning/space left unmarked mistakes is still a relevant issue for me.

I don’t know where all this leaves McCarthy.  Maybe 75th minute sub when we’re protecting a lead?

i thought he said his preferred system was a 433, where did you get the 442 from?

[pete0]

3 hours ago, hafnia said:

Really??? You seem to have an awful lot of time to waste.  I mean your quite adept at trawling through posts and using the search function when it suits you.

No ... come on. I insist.  Show me where I've lied?   It's a big shout to make amongst much all else of the shit you like to throw around calling me Trump and a straw man. Start taking accountability for the shit you post or shut the fuck up.  Seriously had enough of your nonsense.  Create all sorts of noise and when it gets too hot you start throwing accusations out.  

 

Not on. 

I've already had this discussion with you. Pointed out numerous times your bullshit. Can't be arsed playing your silly games. 

[Elston Gunnn]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

i thought he said his preferred system was a 433, where did you get the 442 from?

I've probably remembered it wrong, not sure.  Still, whichever, it wasn't 4231.  I myself am satisfied that if Silva thinks he's got an ideal pairing in Gomes-Gana, we'll have a good test of it in the next 6 matches.  For me, success will be 3 wins at Goodison against mediocre teams, and maybe one draw away to the 3 big teams.  None of the results will depend solely on the play of Gomes and Gana, but they'll have a major influence, one way or the other.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

9 hours ago, pete0 said:

He's detrimental to our play. Always gives away a chance to the opposition and offers very little going forward, often slowing down the play when he recieves the ball and his off ball is even worse doesn't understand positioning to drag his man away to create space for a pass. People go on about his tackling, if he was in position he'd not have to as often and we'd win the ball back more safely. A successful tackle only takes the ball off the man with the ball it then still leaves it in play and is 50/50 if it falls to one of our players or not. 

Since Barry left there has been a huge hole in our midfield as Gana's positional sense is that bad often getting the wrong side of his man. No other team gets done through the middle like us. Last season it was embarrassing. 

McCarthy come back for only a couple of games and the difference in class shone like the sun. Night and day difference. 

 

“detrimental to our play” that is absolutely fucking hilarious

 

[Paddock]

The term pissing into the wind springs to mind on this subject Dunc, it’s utterly laughable. To not like a player or rate him is one thing but this is on an entirely different planet.

[markjazzbassist]

18 minutes ago, Elston Gunnn said:

I've probably remembered it wrong, not sure.  Still, whichever, it wasn't 4231.  I myself am satisfied that if Silva thinks he's got an ideal pairing in Gomes-Gana, we'll have a good test of it in the next 6 matches.  For me, success will be 3 wins at Goodison against mediocre teams, and maybe one draw away to the 3 big teams.  None of the results will depend solely on the play of Gomes and Gana, but they'll have a major influence, one way or the other.

yeah to be honest i'm surprised he keeps going with the 4231 as well but in a way its just a variation of the 433, 2 wide men 3 mids, so i guess 6 and a half dozen the other if you know what i mean.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

“detrimental to our play” that is absolutely fucking hilarious

 

 

2 hours ago, Paddock said:

The term pissing into the wind springs to mind on this subject Dunc, it’s utterly laughable. To not like a player or rate him is one thing but this is on an entirely different planet.

Nothing to do with not liking him. It's his positioning/movement and passing. Fluid and forward should be the aim, Gana does the opposite, on the ball he slows the attack and misses the opportunity to go forward so has to go sideways or backwards and off the ball he doesn't make the subtle runs to open up space for others to pass into which limits their options and leads to sideways or backwards passes. 

[Matt]

Can't handle anymore of this. I'll open it up when the nonsense stops.

[MikeO]

53 minutes ago, Matt said:

Can't handle anymore of this. I'll open it up when the nonsense stops.

Maybe start a new thread, "Haf and Pete's Gana discussion" where they could argue to their heart's content and reopen this for more rational non abusive stuff. Just an idea.

[Paddock]

He’s fucking boss Gana

[MikeO]

31 minutes ago, Paddock said:

He’s fucking boss Gana

Amen brother!

[barryj]

1 hour ago, Paddock said:

He’s fucking boss Gana

I agree, but Id like to hear some opposing views 

[c1982]

Excellent again today. Head to head with the best in the world at that role - not much between them today.

[Palfy]

On 10/11/2018 at 14:04, barryj said:

I agree, but Id like to hear some opposing views 

Can’t do that most will start crying again and the topic will be closed.