2019/20 Pre-season.

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

For you to have watched Digne and Kean you must watched nearly every Juve and Barca game. 

Kean played 533 minutes for Juve last year. 

Digne was a bit part player and only got 13 minutes against any of the other known teams over there. Zero mins against Madrid. 

As for Bernard his last cap was 2014. His only full game was the 7-1 Germany defeat. 

Gomes had a big money move but was known as a flop. 

They've all been good signing for us (Kean pending) but none of them come with the profile of Walcott. 

Kean I found out about from the racism he suffered and then watched some of his matches on you tube and on cable tv.

I have watched all the world cups going back to Italia 90!!

When I was checking out Barca I saw Digne and and a few others that I thought were trapped in the Barca second 11 syndrome and would do well in the prem league.

Wallcot maybe had a profile up to 2015/16, after that he played allot less for both Arsenal and England.

[Wiggytop]

On 03/08/2019 at 23:27, pete0 said:

We don't need 5 new players, we need a manager who knows more than one tactic. 

Can't disagree with this statement, but your argument that Allardyce is a better manager is difficult to understand, his only tactic was to sit back and suppress every team regardless of their ability, and try and nick a 1-0 win. His often used saying " younhave to respect the point" says all about him. I can't remember which game as they all blurred into the same dirge, but it took nearly 45 mins for us to have a shot, when JonJoe blazed a long distance shot over the bar.. Allardyce the better manager oh the irony.

[nogs]

On 04/08/2019 at 13:34, pete0 said:

I don't see why Silva should get an easy ride when he's taken over a relatively easy task and failed. 5 points more with essentially 9 out of 11 players better and a stronger bench.

Silva did not have an easy time taking over the squad he inherited. Nor did Brands. The previous 12 months had seen the club make arguably the biggest mistakes recruitment wise in its history, tear apart a solid squad and replace it with an unbalanced expensive mess created by a DoF and manager working on completely different wavelengths. Your numbers about how many 'better' players Silva had at his disposal last season also seem to be going up for some strange reason. 

Truth is the season hasn't even started and you're already doing everything you can to prove how knowledgeable you are by slagging off the manager rather than just supporting the club. I really hope we sign Zaha and a CB and are 4th at Xmas just to hear what you come out with then. 

[Sibdane]

6 hours ago, nogs said:

Silva did not have an easy time taking over the squad he inherited. Nor did Brands. The previous 12 months had seen the club make arguably the biggest mistakes recruitment wise in its history, tear apart a solid squad and replace it with an unbalanced expensive mess created by a DoF and manager working on completely different wavelengths. Your numbers about how many 'better' players Silva had at his disposal last season also seem to be going up for some strange reason. 

Truth is the season hasn't even started and you're already doing everything you can to prove how knowledgeable you are by slagging off the manager rather than just supporting the club. I really hope we sign Zaha and a CB and are 4th at Xmas just to hear what you come out with then. 

Pete would say it's because we don't have Gana in midfield and how he called it.

Also, Allardyce would have us in 3rd.

[plaidharper]

16 hours ago, pete0 said:

For you to have watched Digne and Kean you must watched nearly every Juve and Barca game. 

Kean played 533 minutes for Juve last year. 

Digne was a bit part player and only got 13 minutes against any of the other known teams over there. Zero mins against Madrid. 

As for Bernard his last cap was 2014. His only full game was the 7-1 Germany defeat. 

Gomes had a big money move but was known as a flop. 

They've all been good signing for us (Kean pending) but none of them come with the profile of Walcott. 

I try to watch as many Barca games as possible.  Knew about Mina, Gomes, and Digne.  Out of those three I was the most excited about Digne.  The reason he didn't get minutes was because he never played the 'Barca' way.  Digne is great at getting down and putting in crosses but that is not the 'Barca' way.  They just want a Jordi Alba clone which Digne will never be. Same goes for Adriano before that. In fact they brought in another left back this summer (Junior Firpo) and if he doesn't fit the style will most likely be gone in a year or two.  It really is just as simple as that and a huge gain for us.

As for Kean, I do not watch a lot of Italian football but he did score game winners that put his name in the news and at that point you do not have to be an avid watcher of Juve, just a person who reads online. 

As for the profile of Walcott... why do you think it is big?  Digne has won more trophies.  Right now Walcott has more national side appearances (47 vs 25) but Walcott is older and finished in that regard whereas Digne could surpass that 47.  What do you mean by profile?

[pete0]

9 hours ago, nogs said:

Silva did not have an easy time taking over the squad he inherited. Nor did Brands. The previous 12 months had seen the club make arguably the biggest mistakes recruitment wise in its history, tear apart a solid squad and replace it with an unbalanced expensive mess created by a DoF and manager working on completely different wavelengths. Your numbers about how many 'better' players Silva had at his disposal last season also seem to be going up for some strange reason. 

Truth is the season hasn't even started and you're already doing everything you can to prove how knowledgeable you are by slagging off the manager rather than just supporting the club. I really hope we sign Zaha and a CB and are 4th at Xmas just to hear what you come out with then. 

In struggling with to see the counter argument here. You acknowledge the mess, so how can you credit the manager with the better more balanced squad yet dismiss the one who finished in exactly the same spot in the league with the much worse squad. 

3 hours ago, plaidharper said:

I try to watch as many Barca games as possible.  Knew about Mina, Gomes, and Digne.  Out of those three I was the most excited about Digne.  The reason he didn't get minutes was because he never played the 'Barca' way.  Digne is great at getting down and putting in crosses but that is not the 'Barca' way.  They just want a Jordi Alba clone which Digne will never be. Same goes for Adriano before that. In fact they brought in another left back this summer (Junior Firpo) and if he doesn't fit the style will most likely be gone in a year or two.  It really is just as simple as that and a huge gain for us.

As for Kean, I do not watch a lot of Italian football but he did score game winners that put his name in the news and at that point you do not have to be an avid watcher of Juve, just a person who reads online. 

As for the profile of Walcott... why do you think it is big?  Digne has won more trophies.  Right now Walcott has more national side appearances (47 vs 25) but Walcott is older and finished in that regard whereas Digne could surpass that 47.  What do you mean by profile?

Global recognition. Walcott was the main attraction for when we were in Africa. 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-create-buzz-theo-walcott-16519551

[nogs]

13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

In struggling with to see the counter argument here. You acknowledge the mess, so how can you credit the manager with the better more balanced squad yet dismiss the one who finished in exactly the same spot in the league with the much worse squad. 

Yeah I've noticed you struggle with counter arguments a lot. It was a joke we finished 8th under Allardyce. We were lucky we weren't the only team in the Premier League that played some utter shite that season. Burnley qualified for Europe, enough said. 

I credit Silva over Allardyce because the recruitment has been better since he's been here and the football has shown signs of heading in the right direction. Tosun is a flop and Walcott has always been massively overrated, he's also now over the hill. Allardyce would also never have been able to work under a DoF like Brands who has made clear his philosophy is on players under 25 who can be coached to improve. 

But hey, you keep wishing Fat Sam was here. He isn't, he's part of the history of the club now, Silva is our manager regardless of what you think or say, there's a new season upon us, the squad is getting towards the overhaul it badly needed - I'd have thought there's reason to be looking forward, not backward. 

[MikeO]

29 minutes ago, nogs said:

But hey, you keep wishing Fat Sam was here. He isn't, he's part of the history of the club now...

Not for me, he's a very short term mistake on legs that we quickly corrected by binning him; anyone writing the history of the club in 100 years time will give him less than a sentence.

[Finn balor]

Silva and marcel have had to delve and sort through Martinez, koeman and baron Von greenbracks tenure. That’s a lot of shite, overpaid and stupid decisions just financially. You then have to put into context balancing the squad. It takes at least three or four windows for a manager if they can to get a squad they want. We all have no idea the details of how to sign a player or what it involves these days. I’ve heard farhad had someone in his ear before we got marcel that made him go for fat twat and it kills me he was here. His interviews after the match saying about how the supporters were booing him as he  smirked saying well I can’t put the ball in the net it’s up to the players. Pete remember that?  Worst football I’ve seen from a manager at our club. 

[pete0]

49 minutes ago, nogs said:

Yeah I've noticed you struggle with counter arguments a lot. It was a joke we finished 8th under Allardyce. We were lucky we weren't the only team in the Premier League that played some utter shite that season. Burnley qualified for Europe, enough said. 

I credit Silva over Allardyce because the recruitment has been better since he's been here and the football has shown signs of heading in the right direction. Tosun is a flop and Walcott has always been massively overrated, he's also now over the hill. Allardyce would also never have been able to work under a DoF like Brands who has made clear his philosophy is on players under 25 who can be coached to improve. 

But hey, you keep wishing Fat Sam was here. He isn't, he's part of the history of the club now, Silva is our manager regardless of what you think or say, there's a new season upon us, the squad is getting towards the overhaul it badly needed - I'd have thought there's reason to be looking forward, not backward. 

Statistically last year was easier to get points. 

The recruitment is Brands not Silva. Why couldn't Allardyce work with Brands? 

4 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

Silva and marcel have had to delve and sort through Martinez, koeman and baron Von greenbracks tenure. That’s a lot of shite, overpaid and stupid decisions just financially. You then have to put into context balancing the squad. It takes at least three or four windows for a manager if they can to get a squad they want. We all have no idea the details of how to sign a player or what it involves these days. I’ve heard farhad had someone in his ear before we got marcel that made him go for fat twat and it kills me he was here. His interviews after the match saying about how the supporters were booing him as he  smirked saying well I can’t put the ball in the net it’s up to the players. Pete remember that?  Worst football I’ve seen from a manager at our club. 

That lot of shite you talk about Alladyce managed to drag them to 8th. If they were so shite how did Alladyce manage to get 8th and how is Silva a better manager when he could only muster the same with a much better squad?

[Sibdane]

Just now, pete0 said:

Statistically last year was easier to get points. 

The recruitment is Brands not Silva. Why couldn't Allardyce work with Brands? 

That lot of shite you talk about Alladyce managed to drag them to 8th. If they were so shite how did Alladyce manage to get 8th and how is Silva a better manager when he could only muster the same with a much better squad?

You do understand that signing better players doesn't immediately mean an instant turn around in fortunes? Players take time to gel as do tactics, as is evident by the form at the end of the season.

And Brands wouldn't work with Allardyce, because he's a single-point grabbing manager with no vision towards the future.

 

[Palfy]

21 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

You do understand that signing better players doesn't immediately mean an instant turn around in fortunes? Players take time to gel as do tactics, as is evident by the form at the end of the season.

So based on your view that the end of last season is the reality of where we now find ourselves we should easily finish 3rd if not pushing for 2nd.

[Finn balor]

27 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Statistically last year was easier to get points. 

The recruitment is Brands not Silva. Why couldn't Allardyce work with Brands? 

That lot of shite you talk about Alladyce managed to drag them to 8th. If they were so shite how did Alladyce manage to get 8th and how is Silva a better manager when he could only muster the same with a much better squad?

We had a much better squad in your opinion? Agreed? Did all the other teams just stop buying players? Do you concede that all the teams above us and beneath us invested aswell? So what’s your point?

[pete0]

27 minutes ago, Sibdane said:

You do understand that signing better players doesn't immediately mean an instant turn around in fortunes? Players take time to gel as do tactics, as is evident by the form at the end of the season.

And Brands wouldn't work with Allardyce, because he's a single-point grabbing manager with no vision towards the future.

 

We were fine start of the season. Digne, Zouma, Richarlison and Gomes all walked into to the side no problems compare them to the players who they replaced and it was an instant step up. Mina wasn't out of place during his cameos either. Only one that needed some time was Bernard but he had Digne helping compared to DCL and Martina on the left last year. 

[pete0]

4 minutes ago, Finn balor said:

We had a much better squad in your opinion? Agreed? Did all the other teams just stop buying players? Do you concede that all the teams above us and beneath us invested aswell? So what’s your point?

Pickford plus one year experience. 

Coleman fully fit. 

Keane fully fit. 

Zouma over Williams/Jagielka. 

Digne over Martina/unfit Baines. 

Gomes over Schneiderlin 

Gana = Gana (although he did try harder once PSG come in). 

Richarlison over any player that had a go on the left last year. 

Walcott = Walcott 

Sigurdssen = Sigurdssen 

DCL plus one year experience. 

That's more than just a little improvement. I doubt any club comes close to how much we did. 

Any one point is based on league points. Just look at man u they were an absolute mess yet got top six as those beneath were easier to beat this year. Bottom 5 nearly 20 more games between them. Top 2 picked up an extra 15 points between them. Last session was an easy one and I would put more blame on the manager than the players for us not doing better. 

[plaidharper]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

In struggling with to see the counter argument here. You acknowledge the mess, so how can you credit the manager with the better more balanced squad yet dismiss the one who finished in exactly the same spot in the league with the much worse squad. 

Global recognition. Walcott was the main attraction for when we were in Africa. 

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-create-buzz-theo-walcott-16519551

Hahaha. Did you read that article? They are saying that Walcott is sadly the biggest draw.  Would assume that because our players with actual profile were playing in summer tournaments with the aim to win trophies or on extended vacation instead of being in Kenya. 

"Theo Walcott will be the biggest name for local fans but Everton's trip to East Africa this weekend might not generate the same kind of excitement as their previous game in the region."

 

[pete0]

4 minutes ago, plaidharper said:

Hahaha. Did you read that article? They are saying that Walcott is sadly the biggest draw.  Would assume that because our players with actual profile were playing in summer tournaments with the aim to win trophies or on extended vacation instead of being in Kenya. 

"Theo Walcott will be the biggest name for local fans but Everton's trip to East Africa this weekend might not generate the same kind of excitement as their previous game in the region."

 

That or Rooney is a much bigger attraction last time round. 

[plaidharper]

6 minutes ago, pete0 said:

That or Rooney is a much bigger attraction last time round. 

Well duh. 

Rooney off to Derby County now.  Was actually at the DC United game last Sunday.  Brutal.  5-1.

Edited August 6, 2019 by plaidharper
addition

[Palfy]

I really don't understand the Walcott animosity when he came on against Werder he was one of the better performers, those who didn't see that obviously didn't watch or are completely blind to what is a good performance.

[pete0]

34 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I really don't understand the Walcott animosity when he came on against Werder he was one of the better performers, those who didn't see that obviously didn't watch or are completely blind to what is a good performance.

He's the popular choice for the fall guy. Apparently we're mad for thinking and it was Gana even though we gave a comprehensive argument. Walcott is crap because everyone says Walcott is crap, oh and Alladyce bought him so he can't possibly be good. Don't let something like his performances, goals, assists and workrate sway you otherwise, the majority have spoken. 

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's the popular choice for the fall guy. Apparently we're mad for thinking and it was Gana even though we gave a comprehensive argument. Walcott is crap because everyone says Walcott is crap, oh and Alladyce bought him so he can't possibly be good. Don't let something like his performances, goals, assists and workrate sway you otherwise, the majority have spoken. 

What’s strange is that the manager sees him at the moment as a good player, so much so he played in front of Lookman, yet the majority who slag off Walcott also think Silva is the dogs bollocks, which is strange when he constantly plays someone so shit over better players in their eyes. 

Now I know you don’t rate Silva that much Pete and that’s your prerogative, for me I haven’t got an issue with him and this season will tell us whether his direction and plan are working. 

But if he played Walcott who I thought was shit over players I thought were good then I would have an issue with his ability to manage, so it does amaze me that all the Walcott haters don’t confront Silva for picking him, they don’t even mention it when discussing how much they think Silva is a great manager. 

[London Blue]

4 minutes ago, Palfy said:

What’s strange is that the manager sees him at the moment as a good player, so much so he played in front of Lookman, yet the majority who slag off Walcott also think Silva is the dogs bollocks, which is strange when he constantly plays someone so shit over better players in their eyes. 

Now I know you don’t rate Silva that much Pete and that’s your prerogative, for me I haven’t got an issue with him and this season will tell us whether his direction and plan are working. 

But if he played Walcott who I thought was shit over players I thought were good then I would have an issue with his ability to manage, so it does amaze me that all the Walcott haters don’t confront Silva for picking him, they don’t even mention it when discussing how much they think Silva is a great manager. 

I really rate Silva, but think he got it wrong over Wallcot in the second half of the season. From December onwards Wallcot was inconsistent at best, and more often than not poor. Which is a shame as he was one of our best players in the first half of the season.

I guess Silva chose him over Lookman because despite his inconsistencies, he was a more experienced and smarter player. Personally I would have liked to see Lookman given more games but there is a reason Silva is a manager and I just play champ manager! 

[Aidan]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Pickford plus one year experience. 

Coleman fully fit. 

Keane fully fit. 

Zouma over Williams/Jagielka. 

Digne over Martina/unfit Baines. 

Gomes over Schneiderlin 

Gana = Gana (although he did try harder once PSG come in). 

Richarlison over any player that had a go on the left last year. 

Walcott = Walcott 

Sigurdssen = Sigurdssen 

DCL plus one year experience. 

That's more than just a little improvement. I doubt any club comes close to how much we did. 

So we had mass changes, is that what you're saying? Mass changes = time to adapt. 

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

Just look at man u they were an absolute mess yet got top six as those beneath were easier to beat this year.

Man United have a much better squad than ours. 

[Palfy]

3 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Personally I would have liked to see Lookman given more games but there is a reason Silva is a manager and I just play champ manager! 

But you’ve answered your own question Silva didn’t get it wrong and Walcott isn’t poor, unless you concede Silva is making poor decisions, but what is clear is you can’t have it both ways. 

At the moment I trust Silva and I trust his judgment on Walcott and Lookman, I also trust he new what he was doing when he let Gana go and let’s be honest he didn’t have to if he truly considered him to be pivotal to his plans he would still be here. 

[pete0]

54 minutes ago, Palfy said:

What’s strange is that the manager sees him at the moment as a good player, so much so he played in front of Lookman, yet the majority who slag off Walcott also think Silva is the dogs bollocks, which is strange when he constantly plays someone so shit over better players in their eyes. 

Now I know you don’t rate Silva that much Pete and that’s your prerogative, for me I haven’t got an issue with him and this season will tell us whether his direction and plan are working. 

But if he played Walcott who I thought was shit over players I thought were good then I would have an issue with his ability to manage, so it does amaze me that all the Walcott haters don’t confront Silva for picking him, they don’t even mention it when discussing how much they think Silva is a great manager. 

It feels like he's got a get out of free card from any form of critism purely for not being Sam Alladyce. Weird subs and no plan B are big worries for me. There seems little adaptation going into the matches too with us playing the same players in the same formation with the same tactics almost every week. We've got Palace first game of the season and I hope to god we don't start with the obvious eleven trying the same thing we did at the end of last year. For me we should go 442 from the off with Tosun up top or if we are going 451 use Davies as he gets on the ball more than Sigurdssen and has more control over the tempo of the game. 

41 minutes ago, Aidan said:

So we had mass changes, is that what you're saying? Mass changes = time to adapt. 

Man United have a much better squad than ours. 

Which players needed time to adopt? And even if they did, was their performance worse during the adaption period worse than the player they come in for? 

Bear in mind we had changes last year and the year before too. 

Man United are a bigger mess than us. De Gea was poor last year and Pogba only turned up for half a season. Other than them two Lukaku is quality but they have a manager who is preferring a system with Rashford who's not as good as DCL. Matic used to be great but his legs have gone, they need a whole new back four. Martial is hit and miss and Lingard isn't good enough. 

[London Blue]

33 minutes ago, Palfy said:

But you’ve answered your own question Silva didn’t get it wrong and Walcott isn’t poor, unless you concede Silva is making poor decisions, but what is clear is you can’t have it both ways. 

At the moment I trust Silva and I trust his judgment on Walcott and Lookman, I also trust he new what he was doing when he let Gana go and let’s be honest he didn’t have to if he truly considered him to be pivotal to his plans he would still be here. 

As I said I rate Silva but I would liked to of seen Lookman given a proper run in the team. 

But with the benefit of time to reflect I think Walcott was the best option because of his experience, and because Lookman cant of been tearing up trees in training as we sold him.

Having said that I still maintain that Walcott was poor in the second half of the season, but the best option we had, until we went Bernard, Siggy, Richarlison, DCL in attack. Then Theo was on the bench. 

[StevO]

Can we stop confusing formation and tactics, really hurts my head. Though we very often played the same 433 formation our tactics varied throughout the season. 

Walcott is still a very good footballer. 

Silva seems to be a very good manager but time will tell. 

Sam has been average at best since he left Bolton, he was shite at best when he was at Everton. 

One thing is for sure, we have a new stadium on the horizon and we are trying to buy better players and aren’t selling our best to fund it, yet still there is discontent. Evertonians are miserable cunts. 

[StevO]

29 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Rashford who's not as good as DCL. 

You’re taking the piss now!

[pete0]

19 minutes ago, StevO said:

Can we stop confusing formation and tactics, really hurts my head. Though we very often played the same 433 formation our tactics varied throughout the season. 

Walcott is still a very good footballer. 

Silva seems to be a very good manager but time will tell. 

Sam has been average at best since he left Bolton, he was shite at best when he was at Everton. 

One thing is for sure, we have a new stadium on the horizon and we are trying to buy better players and aren’t selling our best to fund it, yet still there is discontent. Evertonians are miserable cunts. 

Rarely did we sway from 4411. With the only variation being Richarlison or Bernard, with Richarlison liking to cut in whereas Bernard looked for the overlap or Sig. DCL and Sigurdssen pressed from the front and Gana ran like a headless chicken every game. 

There were tweaks when we were winning/losing like long balls to DCL to knock on to Walcott who was further forward for the knock on/counter, but overall there was very little tactics wise. We were very predictable and the main tactics didn't create enough clear chances, biggest reason for me why we didn't crack the top 7 and were held by the likes of Crystal Palace. 

17 minutes ago, StevO said:

You’re taking the piss now!

Both have similar stats yet United play for Rashford to be the main outlet whereas we use DCL to get the best out of the midfield. People moan about DCL not being clinical enough, they'd have a fit watching Rashford. 

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, StevO said:

Can we stop confusing formation and tactics, really hurts my head. Though we very often played the same 433 formation our tactics varied throughout the season. 

Walcott is still a very good footballer. 

Silva seems to be a very good manager but time will tell. 

Sam has been average at best since he left Bolton, he was shite at best when he was at Everton. 

One thing is for sure, we have a new stadium on the horizon and we are trying to buy better players and aren’t selling our best to fund it, yet still there is discontent. Evertonians are miserable cunts. 

I totally agree every player who as left the club under the reign of Brands wasn’t good enough to be here for a reason.