Arsenal (Home) Saturday 19 December

[Matt]

10 minutes ago, Btay said:

Pundits mentioning Dom hasn’t scored in 3 games now but fail to mention in those 3 wins he’s assisted 3 of the 4 goals. He’s absolutely crucial to us

He’ll have Real etc after him at this rate, so we better be getting Europe this season

[Finn balor]

Arsenal are a poor side and think arteta will be sacked this week. We weren’t great tonight but you have to put into context. We are missing arguably 3 of our best players. And others in key positions. The nucleus of a good team is there. Godfrey was outstanding and there isn’t many better centre backs than Keane around at the minute

[Bailey]

2 hours ago, MikeO said:

Sorry to pick on you in particular Bailey but Auba? Who the fuck is that? A player never managed by Mou? Winds me up in the extreme this tabloid-esque name shortening. Next our first team coach will be Fer and our manager Anc. STOP IT!

Sorry MikeO, I was just being lazy and it saves me spelling his name wrong!

[Bailey]

Well that isn't a game that will live long in the memory but we got the job done. I would say that Arsenal were probably the better side and created the slightly better chances but that isn't say much. 

As I said pre-game, Arsenal do a decent enough job through midfield and then run out of ideas and they would give us a decent enough chance at some point and that is basically how it played out. 

There isn't much to say about the players but I thought DCL was very good again, Iwobi had his moments and Godfrey, Keane and Mina were rock solid. 

Davies was sloppy for the goal, on his heels and slow to react but he was OK otherwise. Holgate was probably the worst player on the pitch. He did well on the ball but some of his defending was well below the standards of the other 3. He would be my 4th choice CB from what I have seen of him this season. Pickford made another clanger which he was lucky to get away with. That was the one he should have been punching clear not trying to collect. 

On to the next one! 

 

[Hafnia]

Arteta doing a Roberto Martinez impression post match..... Apparently they were unlucky and we defended deep etc etc

Oops Micky.... As much as it was painful watching for us at times with a patched up and gassed squad, you barely laid s glove on us till the very end. 

 

 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

Absolutely fantastic to be back in the Old Lady and surprisingly good atmosphere and another 3 points against one of the top six sides makes me a very happy chap

[markjazzbassist]

17 minutes ago, Bailey said:

Well that isn't a game that will live long in the memory but we got the job done. I would say that Arsenal were probably the better side and created the slightly better chances but that isn't say much. 

As I said pre-game, Arsenal do a decent enough job through midfield and then run out of ideas and they would give us a decent enough chance at some point and that is basically how it played out. 

There isn't much to say about the players but I thought DCL was very good again, Iwobi had his moments and Godfrey, Keane and Mina were rock solid. 

Davies was sloppy for the goal, on his heels and slow to react but he was OK otherwise. Holgate was probably the worst player on the pitch. He did well on the ball but some of his defending was well below the standards of the other 3. He would be my 4th choice CB from what I have seen of him this season. Pickford made another clanger which he was lucky to get away with. That was the one he should have been punching clear not trying to collect. 

On to the next one! 

 

They were the better side?  We gifted them their goal, the had one other chance that Pickford saved that could be classed as a potential goal.  We scored 2 proper goals (no gifting).  How were they better?

[Romey 1878]

I think we lived on the edge a bit more in this game than the previous two, but we still limited them to three (?) shots on target all game. The defence was absolutely immense, I can't fault them at all. If you can think of a superlative it applies to them. No ifs or buts about it. And that save from Pickford at the end... fuck, now that's a save you credit a keeper with. Not much to do in the game and then when something's needed he was there. We could easily have been looking at only taking a point if not for him staying on it until the end.

Second in the league, players to come back, I'm a happy blue.

[Hafnia]

22 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

I think we lived on the edge a bit more in this game than the previous two, but we still limited them to three (?) shots on target all game. The defence was absolutely immense, I can't fault them at all. If you can think of a superlative it applies to them. No ifs or buts about it. And that save from Pickford at the end... fuck, now that's a save you credit a keeper with. Not much to do in the game and then when something's needed he was there. We could easily have been looking at only taking a point if not for him staying on it until the end.

Second in the league, players to come back, I'm a happy blue.

Let's not get overboard on the save, a good solid save who I expect him or any keeper to make 8/10 times.  

I'm more arsed about his monumental fuck up again that had us all at sea for the next however many minutes.  Oh it's ok it didn't cost us a goal....  Just like the 2 against Chelsea. 

There are lots of players who aren't good enough who do decent things in a game, it finding the ones who don't make howlers.  Mignolet mk 2

 

[Matt]

Fucking ridiculous.

[Hafnia]

28 minutes ago, Matt said:

Fucking ridiculous.

No it's not. It really fucking isn't.   He made a good save at the end - is he meant to let them all in?.

Has it got so bad that a save from a cross shot is meant to erase yet another monumental fuck up in a nothing situation that relied on the cross bar to save him?  His antics are momentum changers, time after time he does it.  I wouldn't mind if it is was one in every 3 or 4 games.... It's one or two per match. 

Unreliable. 

 

[Matt]

1 minute ago, Hafnia said:

No it's not. It really fucking isn't.   He made a good save at the end - is he meant to let them all in? Has it got so bad that a save from a cross shot is meant to erase yet another monumental fuck up in a nothing situation that relied on the cross bar to save him?

Unreliable. 

 

He saved us 2 points, he didn’t cost us 2 points. Maybe if he’d caught a header that came straight him you’d be made up, but getting down low after 85 mins of not having to do a thing is “routine” so let’s focus on his 1 mistake in the game? Your criticism and blind dislike is absolutely fucking ridiculous. 

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, Matt said:

He saved us 2 points, he didn’t cost us 2 points. Maybe if he’d caught a header that came straight him you’d be made up, but getting down low after 85 mins of not having to do a thing is “routine” so let’s focus on his 1 mistake in the game? Your criticism and blind dislike is absolutely fucking ridiculous. 

Maybe you don't recognize the impact of a steady keeper Vs an impulsive one 

Can you talk me through his uneccessary dive for a header that had  already bounced 3 yards wide?  Another where he made a ridiculous Hollywood dive for a ball he needed to step and catch. 

His "one mistake"... No I actually spotted several, his footwork on balls crossed in is piss poor, never have I seen a keeper running backwards and forwards in a panic like him when the ball is in the air.

He needs to take Michael Keane out for a slap up meal cos his head is more reliable than Pickford's hands. Awful command of his area. Without the odd good shot stop I do not see what he offers 

 

I've seen more assured, composed, command from a loan keeper.  If Olsen isn't the answer I know Pickford certainly isn't.

 

 

[Matt]

Just now, Hafnia said:

Maybe you don't recognize the impact of a steady keeper Vs an impulsive one 

Can you talk me through his uneccessary dive for a header that had  already bounced 3 yards wide?  Another where he made a ridiculous Hollywood dive for a ball he needed to step and catch. 

His "one mistake"... No I actually spotted several, his footwork on balls crossed in is piss poor, never have I seen a keeper running backwards and forwards in a panic like him when the ball is in the air.

He needs to take Michael Keane out for a slap up meal cos his head is more reliable than Pickford's hands. Awful command of his area. Without the odd good shot stop I do not see what he offers 

 

I've seen more assured, composed, command from a loan keeper.  If Olsen isn't the answer I know Pickford certainly isn't.

Well considering we’re second in the table and he’s been our number one this season, I’d say he’s been pretty steady. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of a good witch-hunt. 
 

Not a single person has said he’s the answer, pretty sure all have said we need an upgrade. But to concentrate on mistakes rather than praising the good is embarrassing. By all means criticise, but (and I know this is going to sound like a fucking echo because it’s always the same) be balanced about it. Whether you like it or not, as much as his mistakes are fact, his saves are fact too and today the fact is his mistake didn’t cost us and his save saved us 2 points. Again. 
 

I know you have to have someone to point a finger at and get stuck into, which is infuriating and sad in itself, so I know I’m talking to a brick wall. But today we won because of him making that save which contributed to taking us to fucking second and you’re moaning about a mistake(s) which lead to nothing. It’s fucking ridiculous 

[Matt]

 

[Bailey]

1 hour ago, markjazzbassist said:

They were the better side?  We gifted them their goal, the had one other chance that Pickford saved that could be classed as a potential goal.  We scored 2 proper goals (no gifting).  How were they better?

Our first goal was an own goal as it was going wide and then the second was a set piece. I dont think we created another open play chance bar the goal?

They had the Nketia chance, the Willock header, Luiz hit the post and then chance at the end. 

We had 3 chances in the box and 2 of them were set piece headers and the other was the deflected goal. They had 9 including the penalty. 

Neither side really had much to shout about so it isn't much to say one was better than the other but on balance they had marginally more and marginally better chances. 

[Hafnia]

48 minutes ago, Matt said:

Well considering we’re second in the table and he’s been our number one this season, I’d say he’s been pretty steady. But hey, don’t let facts get in the way of a good witch-hunt. 
 

Not a single person has said he’s the answer, pretty sure all have said we need an upgrade. But to concentrate on mistakes rather than praising the good is embarrassing. By all means criticise, but (and I know this is going to sound like a fucking echo because it’s always the same) be balanced about it. Whether you like it or not, as much as his mistakes are fact, his saves are fact too and today the fact is his mistake didn’t cost us and his save saved us 2 points. Again. 
 

I know you have to have someone to point a finger at and get stuck into, which is infuriating and sad in itself, so I know I’m talking to a brick wall. But today we won because of him making that save which contributed to taking us to fucking second and you’re moaning about a mistake(s) which lead to nothing. It’s fucking ridiculous 

We are second in the table and that means Pickford is playing well?

I'd say it's more likely down to the fact we've got the league's top goal scorer rather than the leagues top error making keeper. 

But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good old happy clap. 

his save was pretty much bread and butter, just watched it again on match of the day,  by the way before he made that save he made a complete fuck up of a cross he allowed to roll past him, all he had to do was get down to it and the supposed 2 point saving effort wouldn't have been needed. 

I don't need anyone to get stuck into but I'm aware that criticism of over hyped players does seem to upset some.  

Ironically it was 2 years ago since Pickford did his origi flap at anfield... I can honestly say I've not seen him have a run of any games since then where he's looked anything but unreliable. 

 

so yeah, to your point, a replacement asap

 

[MikeO]

9 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I'd say it's more likely down to the fact we've got the league's top goal scorer rather than the leagues top error making keeper. 

Errors leading to goals.

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, MikeO said:

Errors leading to goals.

Not referring to errors leading to goals this season mike... You can go back further than this season of which the stats going back to 2017 put him as number 1.

The errors this season have not been punished as much by nothing other than luck of his teammates covering him.

He gets beaten by long range more than any other keeper. If have thought the upside to him being poor with aerial balls would be the ability to at least cover the goal from long range shots. 

[Matt]

30 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

We are second in the table and that means Pickford is playing well?

I'd say it's more likely down to the fact we've got the league's top goal scorer rather than the leagues top error making keeper. 

But hey, let's not let the facts get in the way of a good old happy clap. 

his save was pretty much bread and butter, just watched it again on match of the day,  by the way before he made that save he made a complete fuck up of a cross he allowed to roll past him, all he had to do was get down to it and the supposed 2 point saving effort wouldn't have been needed. 

I don't need anyone to get stuck into but I'm aware that criticism of over hyped players does seem to upset some.  

Ironically it was 2 years ago since Pickford did his origi flap at anfield... I can honestly say I've not seen him have a run of any games since then where he's looked anything but unreliable. 

 

so yeah, to your point, a replacement asap

 

 

A replacement ASAP indeed, if for no other reason than to spare my sanity and most others’ from reading OTT criticism for one of our players. But since that won’t be until summer 2021 (at the earliest, Carlo doesn’t seem to seem as worried as some of you), let’s try being positive? Just to save time and energy, if supporting an Everton player isn’t enough, so we can actually enjoy days like these where we’re 2nd in the league without all this bullshit? That’d be lovely. 

[Palfy]

We need to start looking for the positives in some of our games instead of always looking for the negatives, Pickford hasn’t cost us a single point so far and when or if he starts to we have a very good replacement in Olsen. 
It could be a whole lot worse I wonder if Sheffield United or WBA would be so critical over a mistake that didn’t have any impact what so ever on the result if they were in our position right now. 
If we were to look at the one mistake that did cost us a goal it was the Tom Davies penalty, that that we haven’t dwelled on that and dissected it till our eyes were bleeding I find refreshing and that’s how it should be when you’ve won the game and that player has contributed to that win, why dwell on the negatives, anyone would think we are at our happiest when we’ve got someone or something to moan about, just remember the easiest thing to do is to criticise for the sake of criticism, so I’d like to thank every player for another hard fought performance and most importantly another 3 points, even Tom Davies and Jordan Pickford. 

[milesey05]

Lost it in Midfield second half. I know we got the win and we have squad players who did well, but we’re going to need more against better opposition.

watched the second half again this morning to monitor Tom Davies. Lots of stop start but stats aren’t good. I understand CM can pass you by as I’ve played there. This is a position that you need to show for the ball and dictate the game. We were over run in midfield second half.

Toms touches of ball.

45-50 mins- 0

50-55- 0

55-60-1

60-65-3

65-70- 0

70-75-1

75-80-0

80-85-0

That’s 5 touches on 40 minutes. 
he then got involved.

85-90- 5

90-95- 7.

 

[Hafnia]

9 hours ago, Matt said:

A replacement ASAP indeed, if for no other reason than to spare my sanity and most others’ from reading OTT criticism for one of our players. But since that won’t be until summer 2021 (at the earliest, Carlo doesn’t seem to seem as worried as some of you), let’s try being positive? Just to save time and energy, if supporting an Everton player isn’t enough, so we can actually enjoy days like these where we’re 2nd in the league without all this bullshit? That’d be lovely. 

Sorry Matt, I'll do my best to forget all the previous errors and games like Newcastle, Liverpool etc where a seemingly good result gets thrown away by errors that he is still making but getting away with for now.  Until I can manage that you may find me criticising players who threaten a team performance/result.

I'll also try to forget the fact that a couple of us negative nellies could see the traits in winning games that led to a poor run of form which we just recovered from. 

It's not a happy clappers forum.... I'm an Everton fan and if I see things from players - be it Pickford, Tosun, Gomes etc and they aren't doing what they should be - I'll be pissed off and I'll say it..

If the Pickford flap didn't hit the post and we drew the game then I would be ok to have a go?  Nonsense. 

[Hafnia]

3 hours ago, Palfy said:

We need to start looking for the positives in some of our games instead of always looking for the negatives, Pickford hasn’t cost us a single point so far and when or if he starts to we have a very good replacement in Olsen. 
It could be a whole lot worse I wonder if Sheffield United or WBA would be so critical over a mistake that didn’t have any impact what so ever on the result if they were in our position right now. 
If we were to look at the one mistake that did cost us a goal it was the Tom Davies penalty, that that we haven’t dwelled on that and dissected it till our eyes were bleeding I find refreshing and that’s how it should be when you’ve won the game and that player has contributed to that win, why dwell on the negatives, anyone would think we are at our happiest when we’ve got someone or something to moan about, just remember the easiest thing to do is to criticise for the sake of criticism, so I’d like to thank every player for another hard fought performance and most importantly another 3 points, even Tom Davies and Jordan Pickford. 

The Davies penalty..... Bad pass by Godfrey which should have had Richarlison away, ball came in and Mina made a crap header away. Davies was less culpable IMO, swing the foot to clear and this new method of running into a players foot swung the penno.

Godfrey will learn, he shows that... He stood off for a goal we conceded.... Not seen him do it since.  Mina? Well he's just as much a liability as Pickford in many ways - erratic but it was a poor header. 

The positives are stated on the forum.... It's just some people want to clamp out criticism, and the objection to criticism makes it more of a situation than the criticism itself. 

 

 

[Matt]

I agree, nonsense. 

[Matt]

2 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

The Davies penalty..... Bad pass by Godfrey which should have had Richarlison away, ball came in and Mina made a crap header away. Davies was less culpable IMO, swing the foot to clear and this new method of running into a players foot swung the penno.

Godfrey will learn, he shows that... He stood off for a goal we conceded.... Not seen him do it since.  Mina? Well he's just as much a liability as Pickford in many ways - erratic but it was a poor header. 

The positives are stated on the forum.... It's just some people want to clamp out criticism, and the objection to criticism makes it more of a situation than the criticism itself. 

 

 

Some people eh?  don’t understand why you struggle to understand something so simple. OTT criticism, refusal to accept positives done by someone you (or others) severely dislike, then dismissing any positives,  completely unbalanced “arguments”... all this is what needs to be cut out so we can enjoy a win.

This is an excellent example though. Mina was mostly good today, doing what you’d expect of him. But imagine that was Pickford playing Minas role and you had this much contempt still. Imagine who scored the header but also created the penalty (l agree with you about Davies). Your approach would be to rip him a new one for a dodgy clearance and say it was a routine header, then go on to praise a reserves CB who played 2 games and had nothing to do during that time. 
 

[Btay]

17 minutes ago, Matt said:

Some people eh?  don’t understand why you struggle to understand something so simple. OTT criticism, refusal to accept positives done by someone you (or others) severely dislike, then dismissing any positives,  completely unbalanced “arguments”... all this is what needs to be cut out so we can enjoy a win.

This is an excellent example though. Mina was mostly good today, doing what you’d expect of him. But imagine that was Pickford playing Minas role and you had this much contempt still. Imagine who scored the header but also created the penalty (l agree with you about Davies). Your approach would be to rip him a new one for a dodgy clearance and say it was a routine header, then go on to praise a reserves CB who played 2 games and had nothing to do during that time. 
 

I might need to watch it again because I thought for a 6.5” giant he didn’t well to dive down and get anything on it. 

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Some people eh?  don’t understand why you struggle to understand something so simple. OTT criticism, refusal to accept positives done by someone you (or others) severely dislike, then dismissing any positives,  completely unbalanced “arguments”... all this is what needs to be cut out so we can enjoy a win.

This is an excellent example though. Mina was mostly good today, doing what you’d expect of him. But imagine that was Pickford playing Minas role and you had this much contempt still. Imagine who scored the header but also created the penalty (l agree with you about Davies). Your approach would be to rip him a new one for a dodgy clearance and say it was a routine header, then go on to praise a reserves CB who played 2 games and had nothing to do during that time. 
 

Imagine being critical of someone based on who they are and not what it is they have done or said eh???

Bloody Nora this forum would be full of shite with people objecting to someone's criticism based on who they are rather than what they've said. 

Oh .... Have I just found some supposed parallels with Pickford? Maybe Jordan and I aren't so different after all. 

Maybe you need to look at yourself Matt. After all I don't think I'm an island when it comes to not rating Pickford in the slightest.. you just take a personal dislike to ME doing it. 

[Matt]

yeah ok 

[Palfy]

12 hours ago, Hafnia said:

We are second in the table and that means Pickford is playing well?

I'd say it's more likely down to the fact we've got the league's top goal scorer rather than the leagues top error making keeper. 

It’s a mixture of both of those things with a lot more added to the mix as to why we are in the position we find ourselves, let’s try not to forget it’s a team game after all. 
Haf mate I don’t have a problem with criticism of any player, during the game I posted my criticism of his mistake as did you and many others, shouldn’t it be we’ve had our say move on, but with Pickford there seems to be this focused obsession to Lynch him for the most trivial things that rumble on for days after the event, I’m going to defend him especially when people come out with comments that he’s no better than a pub player to say things like that can only mean two things and nothing in between, either you hate him with vengeance or you haven’t got a fucking clue.