Salomón Rondón

[Hafnia]

15 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Or maybe Rafa has a vendetta against said players

That must be it .... I heard Ellis Simms wears a James Rodriguez shirt in training.  Rafa was heard saying "I don't give a shit if he does score goals for fun against lads who will be in the Welsh league next year ..... He's finished. Salomon after you've finished your big Mac meal join the others for a warm down jog"

[Palfy]

18 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

That must be it .... I heard Ellis Simms wears a James Rodriguez shirt in training.  Rafa was heard saying "I don't give a shit if he does score goals for fun against lads who will be in the Welsh league next year ..... He's finished. Salomon after you've finished your big Mac meal join the others for a warm down jog"

[Palfy]

The reality is for me Norwich was a must win game the manager has made his selection based on multiple reasons, Rondon may not be fit but he has a wealth of experience that was needed in the situation the team found itself in with the 2 main front 2 players out injured, to start a young player up front on his own with no experience in the PL would be foolish there time will come but this wasn’t the time,  in context of the cruciality of the need for us to win this game to keep us on track and stop the rot, Rafa has made the choice which he has made through his knowledge of being a very good manager, I would argue that the result has justified his decision. 

[Bailey]

23 hours ago, Hafnia said:

My comments and your comments on Townsend had absolutely nothing to do with pace and everything to do with the fact you said he wasn't a very good player and never has been. 

Sorry to piss on your bonfire mate but if you wanna get prematurely negative over a player and make comments like you had scouted him and he wasnt up to scratch then you can expect pushback .... You were not even aware that he was two footed with a cannon of a left foot. Have a look back at your comments on him. 

32 is not old for a striker ....it's not like we are signing him to be a force in 2 years time, he is cover.  His athleticism is stamina, leap, strength, Distin relied on pace Rondon doesn't. 

I actually think when you do watch games or players your observations are fine, but in cases like Rondon and Townsend you've tried to blag it really. 

 

We did talk about pace in our discussions and I still don't think he is a "very good player". He certainly isn't world class either. I fully admit that my estimation of him was lower than it should have been but I also made a fair amount of positive comments about him too, especially his attitude. I did also comment that he is genuinely two footed. It is one thing being able to play with your poor foot but he is very good with his "wrong" foot, far better than I had noticed in the games I had seen him play in. Everyone knows he can strike a ball but when matters is how much that returns and throughout his career that hasn't been a lot. Certainly not something that you would call very good or world class.

I am very happy for you to piss away Haf. Unlike you I am more than happy to change my mind when new information comes to my attention. As you are aware, it is one thing seeing someone week in week out than it is to seeing them for 45 or 90 minutes here or there. If you put out an opinion, you have to be prepared to be shot at when it goes wrong and not just batten down the hatches and stick rigidly to your original opinion.

Back to Rondon. The bit you seem to miss is that he isn't just 32. He is 32 with two years playing much lower level football. Rondon is the joint 6th oldest striker in the league. Ronaldo is 36 and is clearly not the same player despite being a machine, Vardy is 34 and is losing his edge, Long is 34 and a non-entity and has been for a while, Cavani is 34 and a world class striker, Deeney is 33 and on his way out at this level, Aubamayang is 32 and world class striker and Rodriguez is 32 and also a non entity. Basically the only 4 players on that list that play regularly and are any good are world class strikers. Yes some have utilised their physical attributes but they are world class because of what lies between their ears. If 32 wasn't old for a striker, do you not think there would be more?

I do accept that I was wrong with Townsend, and to date I have been wrong about Gray, he has far surpassed my expectations, although I still think time will tell with both, however I have never written Rondon off and I have accepted he is expected to be off the pace given his time out, and I think it is an entirely fair comment to maintain at this stage that the jury is still out on whether he will get back to the level he was at for Newcastle. I do think he will do everything he can to get back to that level, but at his age and from where he has come from, it will be much harder for him to do than it would have been a few years ago.

[Hafnia]

48 minutes ago, Bailey said:

We did talk about pace in our discussions and I still don't think he is a "very good player". He certainly isn't world class either. I fully admit that my estimation of him was lower than it should have been but I also made a fair amount of positive comments about him too, especially his attitude. I did also comment that he is genuinely two footed. It is one thing being able to play with your poor foot but he is very good with his "wrong" foot, far better than I had noticed in the games I had seen him play in. Everyone knows he can strike a ball but when matters is how much that returns and throughout his career that hasn't been a lot. Certainly not something that you would call very good or world class.

I am very happy for you to piss away Haf. Unlike you I am more than happy to change my mind when new information comes to my attention. As you are aware, it is one thing seeing someone week in week out than it is to seeing them for 45 or 90 minutes here or there. If you put out an opinion, you have to be prepared to be shot at when it goes wrong and not just batten down the hatches and stick rigidly to your original opinion.

Back to Rondon. The bit you seem to miss is that he isn't just 32. He is 32 with two years playing much lower level football. Rondon is the joint 6th oldest striker in the league. Ronaldo is 36 and is clearly not the same player despite being a machine, Vardy is 34 and is losing his edge, Long is 34 and a non-entity and has been for a while, Cavani is 34 and a world class striker, Deeney is 33 and on his way out at this level, Aubamayang is 32 and world class striker and Rodriguez is 32 and also a non entity. Basically the only 4 players on that list that play regularly and are any good are world class strikers. Yes some have utilised their physical attributes but they are world class because of what lies between their ears. If 32 wasn't old for a striker, do you not think there would be more?

I do accept that I was wrong with Townsend, and to date I have been wrong about Gray, he has far surpassed my expectations, although I still think time will tell with both, however I have never written Rondon off and I have accepted he is expected to be off the pace given his time out, and I think it is an entirely fair comment to maintain at this stage that the jury is still out on whether he will get back to the level he was at for Newcastle. I do think he will do everything he can to get back to that level, but at his age and from where he has come from, it will be much harder for him to do than it would have been a few years ago.

I'm more than happy to be wrong and have held my hand up when wrong and paid out money to a good cause in being wrong .... So that's another inaccuracy there isn't it?  You must do more research bailey! 

Rondon is here as cover, he cost nothing..... Keep some perspective here. 

[Cornish Steve]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

I have never written Rondon off and I have accepted he is expected to be off the pace given his time out, and I think it is an entirely fair comment to maintain at this stage that the jury is still out on whether he will get back to the level he was at for Newcastle. I do think he will do everything he can to get back to that level, but at his age and from where he has come from, it will be much harder for him to do than it would have been a few years ago.

I've focused primarily on the fact that we should not be using actual EPL games as his fitness program. My other concern is that, for the very reasons you gave, he's going to suffer an injury in the process.

[Hafnia]

3 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

I've focused primarily on the fact that we should not be using actual EPL games as his fitness program. My other concern is that, for the very reasons you gave, he's going to suffer an injury in the process.

Again. ..... Who else can we use? We literally have no other viable option for the DCL role. 

[Palfy]

1 hour ago, Hafnia said:

Again. ..... Who else can we use? We literally have no other viable option for the DCL role. 

Agreed no one but that seems to escape the attention of those who think Rondon shouldn’t play, if though we have a natural replacement in the team with the experience to play upfront on their own, to throw youngsters on from the start in must win games isn’t the smart thing to do, by all means bring them on to give them some experience with 10-15 minutes to go, or even earlier if we are 1 or 2 down and give them an opportunity to try and change it but not from the start when you have a more viable or experienced option. 

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/salomon-rondon-suffering-after-dominic-21734438

[Romey 1878]

We shouldn't have brought in cover that can't be cover. No, we didn't know DCL and Richarlison were going to get injured when they did but we should have had someone who could come in at any time to do what they'd been brought in to do.

We made the (bad) decision to bring Rondon in as that cover and now we've just got to roll with it and hope we can get through this period.

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

We shouldn't have brought in cover that can't be cover. No, we didn't know DCL and Richarlison were going to get injured when they did but we should have had someone who could come in at any time to do what they'd been brought in to do.

We made the (bad) decision to bring Rondon in as that cover and now we've just got to roll with it and hope we can get through this period.

Its too early to call it a bad transfer. Having both DCL and Richarlison out at the start of the season, before Rondon could get match fit is just bad luck. We can only judge him once he has played a few games when match fit.

[Romey 1878]

23 minutes ago, London Blue said:

Its too early to call it a bad transfer. Having both DCL and Richarlison out at the start of the season, before Rondon could get match fit is just bad luck. We can only judge him once he has played a few games when match fit.

My point is that it was a bad decision to bring someone in who wasn't capable of being cover when we needed it. I think it was silly to bring someone in who would take time to get up to speed when injuries can strike at any time, as has been shown here.

It's bad decision making, pure and simple, and I'm sick of them because they're a regular occurrence at this club.

I'm not pissed with Rondon, I'm pissed with whoever decided to sign off on this move.

[London Blue]

1 minute ago, Romey 1878 said:

My point is that it was a bad decision to bring someone in who wasn't capable of being cover when we needed it. I think it was silly to bring someone in who would take time to get up to speed when injuries can strike at any time, as has been shown here.

It's bad decision making, pure and simple, and I'm sick of them because they're a regular occurrence at this club.

I'm not pissed with Rondon, I'm pissed with whoever decided to sign off on this move.

I agree he i not an ideal signing, but given our lack of money I dont think there were many alternatives.

[Romey 1878]

12 minutes ago, London Blue said:

I agree he i not an ideal signing, but given our lack of money I dont think there were many alternatives.

I get that, I really do, but it's so frustrating being a blue.

[barryj]

Let’s hope he’s more than just a shadow today. 

[Wiggytop]

38 minutes ago, Romey 1878 said:

My point is that it was a bad decision to bring someone in who wasn't capable of being cover when we needed it. I think it was silly to bring someone in who would take time to get up to speed when injuries can strike at any time, as has been shown here.

It's bad decision making, pure and simple, and I'm sick of them because they're a regular occurrence at this club.

I'm not pissed with Rondon, I'm pissed with whoever decided to sign off on this move.

Who of players that were available would you have brought in instead?

[Palfy]

5 hours ago, RPG said:

I think the only viable option at the moment is to try to play someone up front alongside to help Rondon. Maybe Gray or Townsend. The only problem with that is that it forces yet another formation change on us and risks upsetting the balance of the rest of the team.

For those reasons I think we may see Rondon on his own up front today with Gray and Townsend cutting inside to support occasionally.

That said, I can see the attraction of the 4-3-2-1 set up today, but a back 3 wouldn't surprise me either.

I would say you got that spot on, because as said there isn’t a Truly viable option unless you sacrifice youngsters from the off. 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, Romey 1878 said:

I get that, I really do, but it's so frustrating being a blue.

Sa la vie as a Blue.

[Shukes]

Credit today. Worked hard and gave them a few moments.

[Romey 1878]

15 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Credit today. Worked hard and gave them a few moments.

If that showing gets him credit then you can tell just how bad he's been in previous games .

[Bill]

19 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Credit today. Worked hard and gave them a few moments.

He was about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.  

[Shukes]

Bit harsh guys I’m in honest…/ which isn’t often haha… but he was better than he has been recently, at least he battled a bit. 

[Cornish Steve]

12 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/salomon-rondon-suffering-after-dominic-21734438

"His physicality has increased, his intelligence around the box has improved, his natural instinct to get into the right areas to score has been excellent to witness."

Nope. Today was a great team performance by ten men - with a pedestrian named Rondon watching his teammates perform.

[Cornish Steve]

7 hours ago, Wiggytop said:

Who of players that were available would you have brought in instead?

Right now, Dobbin, Whitaker, and (when fit) Simms.

[Cornish Steve]

5 hours ago, Shukes said:

Credit today. Worked hard and gave them a few moments.

No he didn't. He was absolutely hopeless. He missed chances DC-L would have snapped up. When we broke away and scored, where was Rondon? Puffing and panting near the halfway line. When Tom Davies had his chance near the end, was Rondon making a run? No - it was Mina, one of our defenders. Time and again, Rondon was a passenger. He's simply not improving. We can wish and hope and spur him on, but right now he's nowhere near the standard needed to play in the Prem.

How many times did I hear the commentator say things like, "DC-L would have reached that, but Rondon doesn't have the speed" or "Richarlison would have controlled that, but Rondon doesn't have the ability"? At least five times.

[Hafnia]

Just now, Cornish Steve said:

No he didn't. He was absolutely hopeless. He missed chances DC-L would have snapped up. When we broke away and scored, where was Rondon? Puffing and panting near the halfway line. When Tom Davies had his chance near the end, was Rondon making a run? No - it was Mina, one of our defenders. Time and again, Rondon was a passenger. He's simply not improving. We can wish and hope and spur him on, but right now he's nowhere near the standard needed to play in the Prem.

I thought he battled hard, funny enough so did the manager.  Very off the pace but we know this don't we .........

[Cornish Steve]

Just now, Hafnia said:

I thought he battled hard, funny enough so did the manager.  Very off the pace but we know this don't we .........

I watched him a lot today, because I want to be fair. Am I overlooking his contributions? But no. The best way to see this is to compare him and Gray. While Gray is weaving and running and making runs and dribbling the ball, Rondon is jogging aimlessly. Have you noticed that no-one passes to him? Compare that to Gray (or Doucoure): They are always in the thick of things. I really wanted Rondon to succeed today, and he was given 90 minutes, but he simply has no ability: No fitness, no speed, no anticipation, no ball control, no sense of positioning, and zero contribution to defence (because we all know forwards are only any good if they can help in defence). I say this tongue-in-cheek, of course, but DC-L really does contribute to defence.

[Hafnia]

7 minutes ago, Cornish Steve said:

"His physicality has increased, his intelligence around the box has improved, his natural instinct to get into the right areas to score has been excellent to witness."

Nope. Today was a great team performance by ten men - with a pedestrian named Rondon watching his teammates perform.

Stop frothing at the mouth Steve, those comments were about DCL.

FFS this is torture.  Shall we start slating Godfrey as being shit and a waste of money whilst we are at it?  Another player who is miles off the pace.  

We are in a situation that isn't ideal.  You wouldn't even be seeing Rondon if DCL and Richarlison were fit, read what Rafa has said. 

[Cornish Steve]

4 minutes ago, Hafnia said:

I thought he battled hard, funny enough so did the manager.  Very off the pace but we know this don't we .........

There's a sense in which his manager will want to defend his decision to bring a has-been from the China leagues. Also, he'll want to encourage the guy, too, and that's to be applauded. In the end, though, you can't defend the indefensible.

[Hafnia]

1 minute ago, Cornish Steve said:

I watched him a lot today, because I want to be fair. Am I overlooking his contributions? But no. The best way to see this is to compare him and Gray. While Gray is weaving and running and making runs and dribbling the ball, Rondon is jogging aimlessly. Have you noticed that no-one passes to him? Compare that to Gray (or Doucoure): They are always in the thick of things. I really wanted Rondon to succeed today, and he was given 90 minutes, but he simply has no ability: No fitness, no speed, no anticipation, no ball control, no sense of positioning, and zero contribution to defence (because we all know forwards are only any good if they can help in defence). I say this tongue-in-cheek, of course, but DC-L really does contribute to defence.

Steve............. Gray and Townsend had a pre season.