Matt Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 This is the most poignant thing about all this. Looks like European news reporters have succesfully diverted your attention to trivial things and convinced you to feel strongly about it. Those downvotes on my post are shocking. I feel strongly about it because I'm married to an American and my daughter is an American. I've followed global news, European, US and independent, for over 2 years on the election because how it effects my family. Regardless of the media input I already had my opinion on both candidates a long time ago, and I don't need to be told by some condescending, patronizing kid about how I my opinion was formed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I just wanted to point out that if a European thinks Trump isn't a worse alternative than Clinton, that it rather shows independent thinking rather than blind copy-pasting of newspaper/tv reporting. But I hope that what I express here, an opinion that doesn't seem popular, doesn't affect the facet through which my EFC-related posts would be viewed. I'm just interested to understand the genocide piece for me the vote is similar to brexit - it a vote of discontent. If you mistreat people they will revolt in the most vocal manner. Sibdane and Matt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirallas Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I'm just interested to understand the genocide piece for me the vote is similar to brexit - it a vote of discontent. If you mistreat people they will revolt in the most vocal manner. I'll explain in a PM, I don't think expressing my opinion in this topic is a wise idea at the moment: I don't need to be told by some condescending, patronizing kid about how I my opinion was formed. Edited November 9, 2016 by Mirallas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elston Gunnn Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I take Mirallas's point in his several posts above to refer to abortion. I infer, though I may well be oversimplying his views, that most, perhaps literally all, other issues are in comparison "trivial." I don't know absolutely for certain whether Trump is "as bad as he's made out to be." But I described him in my post above as a "sociopathic near-fascist" with multiple "ugly views." I can define a "sociopath," and Trump exactly fits the several characteristics of a sociopath. I can list 7 or 8 characteristics of historical fascism, and Trump's campaign absolutely appealed to all those characteristics. For me, even "sociopathic near-fascist" only begins to describe Trump's appalling character, personal history, and campaign. But if one sees the abortion issue as literally more important than all other issues - domestic, foreign, financial, cultural, economic, military, international, etc. - then clearly Trump's promise to put forth conservative justices who may help overturn Roe v. Wade will require one to celebrate Trump's victory over fervently pro-choice Clinton. Sibdane, Mirallas and MikeO 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I'll explain in a PM, I don't think expressing my opinion in this topic is a wise idea at the moment: Oh do explain, and also what media bias formed your opinion edit: Thanks for the PM, s'all good Edited November 9, 2016 by Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hafnia Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 freedom of opinion and speech guys..... Mirallas hasn't said anything controversial from where I'm sat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Division Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 I have to wait for the 'inside story' book to come out in a couple of months to understand just how this happened. The Brexit campaign basically won on soundbites with little to no facts... Just like Trump. Things need to be explained in a way, repeatedly, to combat this approach! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's good to be a bookie at the moment I'd imagine How many people bet on a Clinton victory? something like 80% Hahaha! Silly people. Also a good moment to be an unborn baby I'd imagine. Hopefully a number more will survive in the coming years than if Clinton were president. Never forget the important things. It's easy to make Trump look like a disaster, but it's genuinely not as bad as he's made out to be. Presidents aren't as powerful as they're sometimes said to be. The USA can be glad about this result. Lots and lots of salty comments around the internet, but that's of course a direct result of the high degree of polarization. People think it's a disaster. Nah it's not. Wow. Just wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 She is projected to win the popular vote. Strange for the democratic candidate to have won the popular vote but the democratic party to loose the white house, the senate and the house. http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13572112/trump-popular-vote-loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 for me the vote is similar to brexit - it a vote of discontent. If you mistreat people they will revolt in the most vocal manner. Spot on that's exactly what it is. Global markets are in free fall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubecula Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Clinton shot herself in the foot when she took some states for granted and didn't bother to campaign in them. Also, it seems that the Canadian immigration website crashed during the night as it was overwhelmed by enquiries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 He won't be as bad as the media have made out he will be. He also won't be as good as he would think.He used certain issues to gain support, to get the win. He got it, he did a great job of getting people on his side. Now he has the position I'd be surprised if he even tried to followed through with all of the crazy get out of our country, build a wall, ban Muslim stuff. If he carries out today's promises of new hospitals, airports and highways, built by American people with American meterials he won't be all bad.I know one thing for sure, his first 100 days will be very interesting! Mirallas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 He won't be as bad as the media have made out he will be. He also won't be as good as he would think. He used certain issues to gain support, to get the win. He got it, he did a great job of getting people on his side. Now he has the position I'd be surprised if he even tried to followed through with all of the crazy get out of our country, build a wall, ban Muslim stuff. If he carries out today's promises of new hospitals, airports and highways, built by American people with American meterials he won't be all bad. I know one thing for sure, his first 100 days will be very interesting! Same as the "leave" camp in Brexit then. Difference is he's going to be accountable unlike the "Brexiteers" who jumped ship when they got what they wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Saw on twitter that turnout was only 53% ????? No source though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Saw on twitter that turnout was only 53% ????? No source though It's always low. People don't get the day off so unless you go before or after work (if you work a nice job that affords that opportunity) or can vote early in your state, it's hard to vote. Poor people who don't have a car can't get their either, very terrible but that's how they want it. They want the rich whites voting and everyone else struggling to make it to the polls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 It's always low. People don't get the day off so unless you go before or after work (if you work a nice job that affords that opportunity) or can vote early in your state, it's hard to vote. Poor people who don't have a car can't get their either, very terrible but that's how they want it. They want the rich whites voting and everyone else struggling to make it to the polls. Didnt know.. Thats incredible though. 1 in 4 (47% of 53%) americans vote for trump and suddenly the most important man in the world thinks global warming is a hoax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevO Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Wouldn't disagree with that Mike, though I'm angry at both sides of the Brexit campaign. For me the remain camp made as many people vote for leave as the leave camp. If remain would have run on facts and honesty rather than just scaremongering they would have held more votes, and in such a tight ballot it could have made all the difference. The leave campaign pushed fears too, but I don't think they were as successful as the remain camp were failures. Anyway, wrong thread. I'm trying to feel positive about what could happen on both sides of the Atlantic. Too much negativity around and I can't influence what happens next. I'm hoping May and Trump can do a good job. Worst case i transfer to head office in Hong Kong. Love Chinese food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palfy Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 That's life I'm afraid if you can't be arsed you get what you deserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 9, 2016 Report Share Posted November 9, 2016 Worst thing today was when I came down early this morning and looked at the TV (wife was already watching) and looked at the headline band at the bottom of the screen; didn't have my glasses on on so I thought it said Clinton 278 and was much relieved until I saw the look on the other half's face. Put the specs on and it was 218. I'd actually vividly dreamt about the result so really thought sanity had prevailed. May and Trump doing a good job is about as likely as Sunderland winning the league. Right wing on the rise everywhere, frightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Steve Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Let me say that I have considerable sympathy with Mirallas' view (re abortion). For very many in this US, this single issue determines their vote. They value the sanctity of human life and, as a result, view millions of abortions as a form of genocide. Where I disagree is (i) there are times when it is justified, and (ii) a government ban would simply reopen backstreet abortions, leading in turn to more deaths. If I follow Mirallas' logic (assuming he believes the government should step in), in what other "moral" areas would the government step in? Might they forcibly detain gays and put them through "conversion therapy"? After all, Mike Pence (Trump's vice-president) is a big supporter of conversion therapy for gays. This rapidly becomes a very slippery and scary slope. Despite having witnessed, in the last few months, a lot of intolerant, even nasty, aggression from both parties and individuals, it was striking today (I flew from Atlanta to Dallas) that very few people were talking about the election. There was no gloating or "told you so" moments. For me, this was a positive: Everyone realizes they have to live together, so let's try to heal the wounds of this election process. As for what Trump might do policy-wise, I hope and pray he tones things down. The truth is, though, that I fear we're entering a different world order in the West, and we will soon be expected to conform a lot more. In the balance between freedom and security, the latter will start to win out. It's not going to be a pretty sight - especially for minorities (blacks, Muslims, immigrants, gays, the disabled, ...). Edited November 10, 2016 by Cornish Steve Mirallas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 He is the ultimate piece of shit and I'm fairly confident that "we" will have buyers remorse. How we are going from a man of amazing integrity and wisdom to a narcissistic bigot in the matter of a few months is enough to make me vomit diarrhea. The irony is that the rust belters who felt they needed a voice and are looking at a womanizing multi-billionaire who doesn't pay taxes as their savior is beyond a fucking joke. He doesn't give a flying fuck about anybody but himself, but he is an outstanding snake oil salesman. There are going to be a lot of empty promises. As for the folks saying we all need to come together and be united - sorry - not this time. Not with this low-life scum. Not gonna happen. I will refuse his legitimacy and I unequivocally reject his bigotry and hatred for the sake of my children and all of humanity. My kids already see through this asshole and have learned that being a whiny entitled cunt isn't the way forward in most cases, but unfortunately it was this time. Its time to get WAY more involved in the Democratic Party this time around. The party needs a bit of shake-up. God fucking help us. The shock hasn't really softened yet today, and boy does this one sting. Keith B 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalkpie Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chach Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) What's the big secret with the abortion/ hidden genocide post? Surely, that warrants a detailed explanation once that idea has been floated. Edited November 10, 2016 by Chach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Despite having witnessed, in the last few months, a lot of intolerant, even nasty, aggression from both parties and individuals, it was striking today (I flew from Atlanta to Dallas) that very few people were talking about the election. There was no gloating or "told you so" moments. For me, this was a positive: Everyone realizes they have to live together, so let's try to heal the wounds of this election process. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37932231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holystove Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Saw on twitter that turnout was only 53% ????? No source though Following up on this.. Trump got 1 million fewer votes than McCain and 2 million fewer votes than Romney. The fact that Trump still won, just means that Clinton was the most un-inspiring candidate ever. Some solace in this. America didn't go nuts, people just stayed home in such numbers that the nuts-part which was always there, actually won this year. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjazzbassist Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Following up on this.. Trump got 1 million fewer votes than McCain and 2 million fewer votes than Romney. The fact that Trump still won, just means that Clinton was the most un-inspiring candidate ever. Some solace in this. America didn't go nuts, people just stayed home in such numbers that the nuts-part which was always there, actually won this year. Yep if the democrats had gone with a candidate their base wanted like Bernie sanders or VP joe Biden they would have crushed trump. Glad to be an independent and not be lumped in the DNC, they are run by morons. Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwbG-AsXcAA99z8.jpg:large Sibdane and Lowensda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Following up on this.. Trump got 1 million fewer votes than McCain and 2 million fewer votes than Romney. The fact that Trump still won, just means that Clinton was the most un-inspiring candidate ever. Some solace in this. America didn't go nuts, people just stayed home in such numbers that the nuts-part which was always there, actually won this year. I talked to a bunch of folks who stayed home. They were just so indifferent towards Hillary that they didn't bother to show up. Definitely feel BOTH parties need a shakeup. I'm still surprised that the Republicans control everything. First time since 1928 that one party has controlled the 3 branches all at once. Yep if the democrats had gone with a candidate their base wanted like Bernie sanders or VP joe Biden they would have crushed trump. Glad to be an independent and not be lumped in the DNC, they are run by morons. Yep -- I really feel this was a turning point for Democrats in the election. It really should've been Sanders. I still thought Hillary would pull it off, but in retrospect it makes complete sense why she failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibdane Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Only one man can stop Trump now... https://youtu.be/k4b4W8i9J6w Edited November 10, 2016 by TonkaRoost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowensda Posted November 10, 2016 Report Share Posted November 10, 2016 Do we get the impression this'll be Trump voters in 6 months? Sibdane 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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