Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Palfy]

7 minutes ago, Matt said:

Could be that he’s discussing a new contract or has said he doesn’t want to leave. 

Pretty sure no ones bid for Messi over the years, does that mean he’s no good too?

I fought the was a fair question and assessment of what's happening with Gana, they could be trying to convince him his future lies here with more money, I doubt he's said he doesn't want to leave when he made it clear he wants to play at a higher standard.

And please let's not start trying to find comparisons with Messi fantasy football is on another thread , I think it maybe his age which is stopping others being interested not the money.

[Matt]

7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

I fought the was a fair question and assessment of what's happening with Gana, they could be trying to convince him his future lies here with more money, I doubt he's said he doesn't want to leave when he made it clear he wants to play at a higher standard.

And please let's not start trying to find comparisons with Messi fantasy football is on another thread , I think it maybe his age which is stopping others being interested not the money.

My point is that lack of bids for a player has absolutely nothing to do with the players ability or how highly rated they may be

[Hafnia]

Feel free to move the gana/delph posts in here Romey.  Shouldn't be deleting them. 

 

[pete0]

44 minutes ago, Matt said:

Could be that he’s discussing a new contract or has said he doesn’t want to leave. 

Pretty sure no ones bid for Messi over the years, does that mean he’s no good too?

Real Madrid apparently tried three times. 

14 minutes ago, Matt said:

My point is that lack of bids for a player has absolutely nothing to do with the players ability or how highly rated they may be

Most Everton players I can think of who were good enough for the step up have moved from us, only ones off the top of my head I can think of are Cahill and Baines who were both touted by man u. 

McCarthy would have probably fell in the bracket if not for injury. 

Of the current crop good enough Richarlison and Digne have only been here a year. I'd expect interest next year if we don't kick on. Only other player would be Pickford all the top 6 all have keepers just as good bar Spurs but lloris is solid enough for them to prioritise their money towards out field players. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

My point is that lack of bids for a player has absolutely nothing to do with the players ability or how highly rated they may be

Other clubs may feel we want too much money for a player in his 30’s. He wouldn’t be good value for the money we would want for him. 

[StevO]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Feel free to move the gana/delph posts in here Romey.  Shouldn't be deleting them. 

 

I’m trying so hard not to delete that post. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

Feel free to move the gana/delph posts in here Romey.  Shouldn't be deleting them. 

 

Feel free to post about Gana in here and I won’t. 

[Finn balor]

Cant wait till be comes back from the cup

[Matt]

8 hours ago, pete0 said:

Real Madrid apparently tried three times. 

Most Everton players I can think of who were good enough for the step up have moved from us, only ones off the top of my head I can think of are Cahill and Baines who were both touted by man u. 

McCarthy would have probably fell in the bracket if not for injury. 

Of the current crop good enough Richarlison and Digne have only been here a year. I'd expect interest next year if we don't kick on. Only other player would be Pickford all the top 6 all have keepers just as good bar Spurs but lloris is solid enough for them to prioritise their money towards out field players. 

3 times in 15 years?!  Must’ve only been any good for 3 seasons then...

7 hours ago, StevO said:

Other clubs may feel we want too much money for a player in his 30’s. He wouldn’t be good value for the money we would want for him. 

Indeed, could be an option too. But it’s still absolutely no reflection on the players ability. 

[Shukes]

9 hours ago, Palfy said:

Does that mean no one else is interested in the best stats midfielder in the Premier league, if so that surly must show he's not rated as highly by others as he is here which is hard to understand when you consider the amount of people who sing his praises.

Now you are being an internet troll haha. Here is no way you actually mean that. 

Come in Palfy out your stirring stick away and play fair.

[Palfy]

4 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Now you are being an internet troll haha. Here is no way you actually mean that. 

Come in Palfy out your stirring stick away and play fair.

your right to a degree there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Hafnia]

8 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

Feel free to post about Gana in here and I won’t. 

It shouldn't have been deleted in the first place.

Let's see if your mardy stance is consistant eh.... I very much doubt it. 

[Romey 1878]

1 hour ago, hafnia said:

It shouldn't have been deleted in the first place.

Let's see if your mardy stance is consistant eh.... I very much doubt it. 

It's been requested many times for people to stop posting Gana shite all over the place, ruining other threads.

Not everything that goes off topic is bad, it makes threads fun when it happens under certain circumstances, but when the same arguments are being made about a player that aren't needed or relevant then it gets a bit boring for people to read all over the place. So I will be deleting any bickering about Gana that isn't relevant to the thread or where the discussion is at in that thread.

[Deacs]

15 hours ago, Palfy said:

Fucking Uganda I think I could have won that

Lol and not spilt a drop of your pint while doing it either

[Sibdane]

20 hours ago, Palfy said:

Fucking Uganda I think I could have won that

Still doesn't take away the fact that he won of the match. There were 21 other players that could have won it, just so you know.

[Matt]

35 minutes ago, sibdane said:

Still doesn't take away the fact that he won of the match. There were 21 other players that could have won it, just so you know.

Potentially more if you include subs

[Palfy]

7 hours ago, Romey 1878 said:

It's been requested many times for people to stop posting Gana shite all over the place, ruining other threads.

Not everything that goes off topic is bad, it makes threads fun when it happens under certain circumstances, but when the same arguments are being made about a player that aren't needed or relevant then it gets a bit boring for people to read all over the place. So I will be deleting any bickering about Gana that isn't relevant to the thread or where the discussion is at in that thread.

If a post isn’t threatening abusive or racist surly there’s no good reason to delete it, move it to the relevant thread if it upsets you by all means, but to delete it is to take away ones right to debate and what use is a forum that doesn’t allow debate, it takes at least two people to debate so if there was dialogue they are doing what the forum was intended to achieve, that fact that they were going over old ground shouldn’t give you the right to delete because of your personal preference, they and others may enjoy it because you don’t should be of no consequence. 

[Matt]

12 minutes ago, Palfy said:

If a post isn’t threatening abusive or racist surly there’s no good reason to delete it, move it to the relevant thread if it upsets you by all means, but to delete it is to take away ones right to debate and what use is a forum that doesn’t allow debate, it takes at least two people to debate so if there was dialogue they are doing what the forum was intended to achieve, that fact that they were going over old ground shouldn’t give you the right to delete because of your personal preference, they and others may enjoy it because you don’t should be of no consequence. 

When it’s debating it’s fine, and we’ll try and move the offending posts. When it’s bickering, sniping and baiting it’s not, and we’ve learnt from years of experience that letting it get out of hand is in no ones interest. 

There wasn’t only 1 post deleted so far as I can tell either and this isn’t the first time, sure as shit won’t be the last. It’s got nothing to do with personal preference, it’s about protecting the forum. If people want to engage in tit for tat, they can take it to PM and sort it out between themselves - the rest of the forum doesn’t have to suffer for it. 

[Hafnia]

Its an absolute joke.

The debate wasn't unhealthy or tiresome.. my post was around role vs position and the difference.

Complete and utter piss take which you got wrong Romey and far too power happy and mardy. The fact other mods agree means nothing to me.  Yes sometimes posts can be irritating but on this occasion we weren't going over old ground.... it was around Delph, similarities to Gana and how a CM can have different roles.

Piss take as I said.  I haven't posted much of recent and will likely do less so. 

You need to look at how you want this site to be seen.  Mardy giggly old boys network going on and it's not good. 

 

[Matt]

13 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Its an absolute joke.

The debate wasn't unhealthy or tiresome.. my post was around role vs position and the difference.

Complete and utter piss take which you got wrong Romey and far too power happy and mardy. The fact other mods agree means nothing to me.  Yes sometimes posts can be irritating but on this occasion we weren't going over old ground.... it was around Delph, similarities to Gana and how a CM can have different roles.

Piss take as I said.  I haven't posted much of recent and will likely do less so. 

You need to look at how you want this site to be seen.  Mardy giggly old boys network going on and it's not good. 

 

The old clique, power hungry mods bullshit again? Sigh. 

He did what he thought was right. Mods supported the decision. Deal with it. I expect this to be deleted too, since it’s nonsense and taking things off topic again. 

As has been said; got a problem with someone, take it to PM or let it go

[MikeO]

As an aside...

[markjazzbassist]

i love gana, what a player

[MikeO]

6 minutes ago, markjazzbassist said:

i love gana, what a player

Was a great goal, Senegal the first team into the semis. 

[MikeO]

https://www.beinsports.com/us/afcon/video/gueye-gives-senegal-lead-over-benin/1239178

(You probably need to put yourself in the US to watch)

[markjazzbassist]

49 minutes ago, MikeO said:

https://www.beinsports.com/us/afcon/video/gueye-gives-senegal-lead-over-benin/1239178

(You probably need to put yourself in the US to watch)

great goal.  senegal have some good players on paper.  koulibaly, gana, mane, balde, and then ok players like kouyate and niang.  i hope they win the AFCON, talent is there.

[Matt]

The previous off topic posts will be responded to via PM tomorrow.

[Shukes]

1 minute ago, Palfy said:

Your a good person Shukes and healthy to be around in a mentality way, i much prefer you taking the piss out of me than agreeing with me when it comes to Gana, you know the saying threes a crowd

Just glad you see it that way mate. From now on I’m Gana try be more understanding! And I love you to mate, but not in a Gueye kind of way

[Palfy]

1 minute ago, Shukes said:

Just glad you see it that way mate. From now on I’m Gana try be more understanding! And I love you to mate, but not in a Gueye kind of way

Bollocks I was just getting in my car to come and see you think I'm Gana give it a miss.

[Shukes]

3 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Bollocks I was just getting in my car to come and see you think I'm Gana give it a miss.

Here you go again... suggesting Gana misses! Stats show...... ahh I suppose they show your right there haha.

[Elston Gunnn]

I’m not a big Gana fan, but his stats surely are often impressive, and obviously he’s highly regarded by most.  Some months back we got into a discussion of his play in terms of risk-reward.  For whatever (biased? uninformed?) reasons, I have tended to notice his risky moves.  I’ve thought his great ability to disrupt opponents sometimes produces an unhelpful disruption to his own team.  In this sense, although I demur from signing on to all of their Gana-deconstruction, I’ve thought pete0 and Palfy make sensible points about his sometimes being out of position, and about the dangerous consequences of his unremitting chance-taking.

I’m not here to try to convince anyone that Gana is grossly overrated.  But looking forward, I do wonder whether Gana is the right “fit” with Gomes, who is, to me, a wonderful player.  Is it possible that Schneiderlin — or preferably a more talented player “like” him — would be a better pairing with Gomes?  (If Gana is sold, I guess this is a moot point.)  Gomes is box-to-box, right?  In a 4-2-3-1 setup, he’s nominally a DM.  But he’s no DM; he’s a “controlling CM.”  We want him consistently moving forward, holding off defenders with his strength and ball-control, producing pinpoint, attacking passes.  Gomes probably isn’t a particularly good defender at all.

My view is that Gomes should be given free rein to initiate and control Everton’s offensive movement.  In this — my — overriding scenario, he needs a partner to “sit” back, no or very little box-to-box stuff, in front of the CHs, especially when either Coleman or Digne is going forward.  Gana’s no “sitter.”  Indeed, he’s not just box-to-box, but touchline-to-touchline, byline-to-byline, a chaotic, if often exhilarating, disruptor.  But he’s incapable of staying back near the CHs.  That’s not who he is.  He can’t do what I think straightforwardly needs doing.

Although Gana is a truly exciting individual player, I suspect Everton’s producing exciting team-football depends more on Gomes’s controlling play, Richarlison’s maturing consistency, the Bernard-Digne partnership, Sigurdsson’s sneaky goals, and a new striker.  Schneiderlin is certainly not the player Gana is, but he or an upgrade at Sitter-DM might produce a better flow, a different, more effective offensive excitement.

We want goals.  Gomes is the key to getting the ball to players in places where they can produce shots.  Is Gana the ideal partner for Gomes?  I am skeptical.  No player can do what Gana does.  But maybe what Gana does isn’t what Everton needs doing.

I readily concede, finally, that Gomes’s wanting to play for Everton, contrasted with Gana’s somewhat dispiriting if easily understandable desire for CL football, furthers my enthusiasm for building our top-4 near-future project around Gomes.