Weirdness Abounds (or the Idrissa Gana Gueye Thread)

[Palfy]

4411, 433, 3511 or even 352, Silva has said he favours a 443 but we have witnessed many systems under him, surely the most important thing is that players are good enough to adapt to different formations and positions, the one player who has really impressed me is Richarlison, he seems to adapt to all systems and positions. 

[Palfy]

2 minutes ago, Palfy said:

4411, 433, 3511 or even 352, Silva has said he favours a 443 but we have witnessed many systems under him, surely the most important thing is that players are good enough to adapt to different formations and positions, the one player who has really impressed me is Richarlison, he seems to adapt to all systems and positions. 

That was a bit off field I know, but hey anything the stops the Gana wars. 

[pete0]

33 minutes ago, StevO said:

We don’t play 4411 though, ask Marco and he will tell you he plays 433.

i don’t know why you would want them to play like another team does, or like we played maybe 8 years ago. The game evolves, coaches come up with new patterns and new tactics. 

Schneilderlins skill set is to sit back and mop up, he’s very very good at it. But it’s not what Marco is asking for. He’s asking for a disrupter to play along side his play maker in Gomes who will dictate the midfield. 

The positional set up is almost identical. Sigurdssen is the closest to the striker. He's not sitting next to Gomes and Gana. Likewise the wingers get forward but no more than they did under Martinez (Koemans never had the pace too). Only major difference is the pace of play. Martinez and Koeman were both slower in the build up and not as one dimensional down the wing. 

The OS isn't showing the average positions for me but I'm sure it'll look more like 4411, from memory Sig is close and sometimes further forward than the striker, and Gana slightly a head of Gomes. Often with Digne close to Bernard much like the Pienaar Baines tandem. 

50s in Fulham start an attack. It finished with a goal after Gana reacts to the ball on 55s and leaves his man/a big hole in midfield. There's a situation like this in almost every game, doesn't always result in a goal conceded but it's one of the main reason me and a few others are so adamant he's not good enough. 

https://youtu.be/GRqD48MQMpY

[Palfy]

5 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Interceptions.

No words needed now is there.

Thank God for that I don’t think I could handle another ineligible statement.

 

3 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The positional set up is almost identical. Sigurdssen is the closest to the striker. He's not sitting next to Gomes and Gana. Likewise the wingers get forward but no more than they did under Martinez (Koemans never had the pace too). Only major difference is the pace of play. Martinez and Koeman were both slower in the build up and not as one dimensional down the wing. 

The OS isn't showing the average positions for me but I'm sure it'll look more like 4411, from memory Sig is close and sometimes further forward than the striker, and Gana slightly a head of Gomes. Often with Digne close to Bernard much like the Pienaar Baines tandem. 

50s in Fulham start an attack. It finished with a goal after Gana reacts to the ball on 55s and leaves his man/a big hole in midfield. There's a situation like this in almost every game, doesn't always result in a goal conceded but it's one of the main reason me and a few others are so adamant he's not good enough. 

https://youtu.be/GRqD48MQMpY

Like I said Pete we have played various systems and you are right, but he does favour 433, but he has played 5 at the back on 4 or 5 occasions. 

I don’t understand why some managers come out with statements like that, just go with what you feel is right for each game. 

[pete0]

7 minutes ago, Palfy said:

Thank God for that I don’t think I could handle another ineligible statement.

 

Like I said Pete we have played various systems and you are right, but he does favour 433, but he has played 5 at the back on 4 or 5 occasions. 

I don’t understand why some managers come out with statements like that, just go with what you feel is right for each game. 

If you've got an AM you're not playing 433. There's no way anyone would describe Bernard as a left forward either, we play the overlap on the left. He's either a winger or a left midfielder. Both our wings have a full defensive duty, you see them defending next to the fullbacks. 

[StevO]

43 minutes ago, pete0 said:

The positional set up is almost identical. Sigurdssen is the closest to the striker. He's not sitting next to Gomes and Gana. Likewise the wingers get forward but no more than they did under Martinez (Koemans never had the pace too). Only major difference is the pace of play. Martinez and Koeman were both slower in the build up and not as one dimensional down the wing. 

The OS isn't showing the average positions for me but I'm sure it'll look more like 4411, from memory Sig is close and sometimes further forward than the striker, and Gana slightly a head of Gomes. Often with Digne close to Bernard much like the Pienaar Baines tandem. 

Martinez and Koeman will also tell you they played 433. 

It’s not about heat maps or average positions, it’s about the managers game plan. 

[StevO]

10 minutes ago, pete0 said:

If you've got an AM you're not playing 433. There's no way anyone would describe Bernard as a left forward either, we play the overlap on the left. He's either a winger or a left midfielder. Both our wings have a full defensive duty, you see them defending next to the fullbacks. 

Forget any idea of AM, CM, DM, it’s much more fluid than that on the pitch. This isn’t Football Manager, players have various responsibilities and tactics to play out in different parts of the pitch. The manager will more than likely tell you that Gomes, Gylfi and Gana all play in the middle, they just have different responsibilities. 

There is no difference between a left winger and a left forward, the same as there is no difference between a left back and a left wing back. The difference is in what they are asked to do by the manager, that’s all.

we seem to want to complicate the position and they have to be put into a certain category or position, a manager of an elite level football team won’t give two shits about if a player is an AM, or CM, or DM. They’ll just be a midfielder in the managers eyes. Football is a simple game, until people complicate it. 

[pete0]

6 minutes ago, StevO said:

Forget any idea of AM, CM, DM, it’s much more fluid than that on the pitch. This isn’t Football Manager, players have various responsibilities and tactics to play out in different parts of the pitch. The manager will more than likely tell you that Gomes, Gylfi and Gana all play in the middle, they just have different responsibilities. 

There is no difference between a left winger and a left forward, the same as there is no difference between a left back and a left wing back. The difference is in what they are asked to do by the manager, that’s all.

we seem to want to complicate the position and they have to be put into a certain category or position, a manager of an elite level football team won’t give two shits about if a player is an AM, or CM, or DM. They’ll just be a midfielder in the managers eyes. Football is a simple game, until people complicate it. 

Exactly they all have different roles, those roles are then shoehorned into terms depending on their position and responsibilitues, such as attacking midfielder, making it easier to discuss than the centre midfielder who's more advanced than the other two centre midfielders, that would be madness. Sigurdssen is clearly an AM he's more advanced than the two behind him and his responsibility is pressing from the front. Sigurdssen isn't rotating with Gana and Gomes, he might on the rare occasion slot in if ones caught forward but we're not playing total football. Our players all have their own positions. You can then add a tag to their position such as Gomes may be referred to as a ball playing DM, nothing to do with football manager it's just an easy quick way to say he sits and dictates play. His role, his position. 

Difference between a left wing back and a left back is they former gets forward more they have more responsibility to attack. Walcott at times played as a right forward for us when usually when we were winning, he'd stick forward but I can't think of a single game tactically that we went 433. 

[StevO]

32 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Exactly they all have different roles, those roles are then shoehorned into terms depending on their position and responsibilitues, such as attacking midfielder, making it easier to discuss than the centre midfielder who's more advanced than the other two centre midfielders, that would be madness. Sigurdssen is clearly an AM he's more advanced than the two behind him and his responsibility is pressing from the front. Sigurdssen isn't rotating with Gana and Gomes, he might on the rare occasion slot in if ones caught forward but we're not playing total football. Our players all have their own positions. You can then add a tag to their position such as Gomes may be referred to as a ball playing DM, nothing to do with football manager it's just an easy quick way to say he sits and dictates play. His role, his position. 

Difference between a left wing back and a left back is they former gets forward more they have more responsibility to attack. Walcott at times played as a right forward for us when usually when we were winning, he'd stick forward but I can't think of a single game tactically that we went 433. 

Well that’s been fun, I disagree, but now I want to get a shower and go to bed. 

Sweet dreams Pete. 

[pete0]

14 minutes ago, StevO said:

Well that’s been fun, I disagree, but now I want to get a shower and go to bed. 

Sweet dreams Pete. 

Have a good night. 

[Bailey]

We defend more akin to a 442 in my opinion as both DCL and Siggy would start high up the pitch but as StevO said somewhere its all largely irrelevant. 

You have both mentioned players and their responsibilities but all I see is the natural differences in the players. If we look at Gana, Gomes and Morgan in those positions, Gana is the one more likely to naturally press, Gomes is more situational and Morgan is naturally suited to sitting a little more. In the same situation they are all expected to do the same thing, whether it be the left channel, right channel or straight down the middle. You cant have say Gana rushing out of position if Gomes is stuck upfield with no cover in midfield. Likewise you cant have Schneiderlin sitting if the rest of the side is pressing and his man is left in acres of space to play through the press. 

[Matt]

It’s as if phases of play mean nothing reading back...

[AlbanyNYToffee]

Does Gana take a break after AFCON or come straight back in? Any break would surely rule him out to start the season as he wouldn't be back until a week before the season starts. 

[MikeO]

1 hour ago, AlbanyNYToffee said:

Does Gana take a break after AFCON or come straight back in? Any break would surely rule him out to start the season as he wouldn't be back until a week before the season starts. 

Has to have some sort of a break, interesting to see how long it'll be; think three weeks will be the bare minimum.

[Finn balor]

Depends. He might have a month on the beach before the tournament? Maybe a week off after it? 

[Finn balor]

Maybe PSGs problem anyway 

[AlbanyNYToffee]

'DELPH NO GUEYE REPLACEMENT' 

Everton boss Marco Silva has insisted the signing of Fabian Delphfrom Manchester City does not mean Idrissa Gueye is set to leave the club.

Delph joined on a three-year deal for a fee believed to be £9m on Tuesdayand is expected to compete for a midfield berth at Goodison Park after spending much of the end of his time at City as a makeshift left-back.

"Gana (Gueye) is still our player and, of course, if we lose Gana then we have to sign a player to replace him because you are talking about one player playing almost all of the games in our squad," Silva said.

"If it will happen then we have to replace him, it is not because we have signed Fabian Delph."

 

The fact he says 'if we lose Gana' means it's likely to happen. He is one of my favorite players in the squad, however i think selling to PSG is best for EFC and the player.  

[MikeO]

Brilliant play from Gana there to set up a Senegal attack from which they got a penalty, decision probably rightly changed by VAR. Don't deserve to be behind though Senegal, much the better team.

[MikeO]

Shame that, crazy deflected goal after two minutes then Algeria park the bus, it was the only shot they had the whole game. Senegal 62% possession and eleven shots but nothing up front; unaccountably Mané has 8.51 on the player rater on the BBC (I say unaccountably but obviously LFC fans influenced) because he was a waste of space and Gana is rated second best player on the pitch, despite all said Liverpool fans voting him down no doubt. Feel sorry for him as I'm sure all Blues will. I hope.

[Shukes]

Shame for him, had a good tournament. They just didn’t do enough in that last third though.... remind you of a certain team?

But I think he can hold his head high.

[MikeO]

14 minutes ago, Shukes said:

Shame for him, had a good tournament. They just didn’t do enough in that last third though.... remind you of a certain team?

But I think he can hold his head high.

32 fouls from Algeria; only four minutes injury time at the end despite six second half substitutions (30s each supposedly) and long delays for VAR and an Algerian player having a nasty cut after a clash of heads, insane. Not that I think it'd have made any difference, they could still be playing now and Senegal wouldn't have scored.

[c1982]

 

[Palfy]

So it looks like Delph was bought in after all to replace Gana. 

 

[c1982]

6 hours ago, Palfy said:

So it looks like Delph was bought in after all to replace Gana. 

 

We will 100% sign a replacement should we sell Gueye. Delph will be vital in the transitional period and as a squad member generally. Look at the bigger picture.

[duncanmckenzieismagic]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-idrissa-gueye-fascinating-transfer-16614837

[Finn balor]

Still think that’s cheap for him. We should be looking for £40 at least. Fucking Fred goes to united for £52 mill!!??

[MikeO]

4 hours ago, duncanmckenzieismagic said:

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-idrissa-gueye-fascinating-transfer-16614837

"Of course, if PSG aren't willing to meet the asking price then no problem, as everyone would be thrilled to see the tackling tornado....stay and be part of an improving, hungry squad."

Not quite "everyone"

Good article though, sums up the dilemma well. 

 

[Haiku]

3 hours ago, Finn balor said:

Still think that’s cheap for him. We should be looking for £40 at least. Fucking Fred goes to united for £52 mill!!??

Mate, Gana is 30 years old. 35 mil is fine. Look what we bought Gomes for.

[markjazzbassist]

Hell of a price for a guy we bought for 6m. I love gana he has been one of my favorites, I will miss him but I wish him the best as he plays for the team of his dreams.

[Finn balor]

44 minutes ago, Haiku said:

Mate, Gana is 30 years old. 35 mil is fine. Look what we bought Gomes for.

Tyrone mings went to villa for £26 million. Just seems to me we sell to low