Goodbye To The Gravy Guzzler

[Hafnia]

8 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Blah blah blah, little bit of strawman in, blah blah blah. Come back when you have an explanation instead waffling like a Conservative. 

Don't know why I'm bothering but pretty sure most on here admitted how great Barry was in the middle, he did have a wobble second season were his legs looked completely gone but then got back into form. Barry if anything carried Gana, Schneiderlin looks out of sorts as he's no Barry, he's not good enough to carry Gana most players aren't. No surprise Schneiderlin's best game, the derby, Gana was on the bench for the first hour. 

We're talking central midfield and Baningime has been available for all 3 managers. All could've played him. Alladyce is on a short term contract, less incentive to take the risk and play kids. As for the other positions Walsh and Koeman could have bought replacements it's not like they happened in the season other than Baines who is old and should have already BSK replaced. 

Don't know why you brought the Brighton game up? You gonna make some shit up and claim I said it again or you just going on a strawman tangent? 

Any how, struggling to see anything about why the midfield is sliced open every week or how Barry is out isn't the reason. Crack on. 

 

Every time you bring up strawman it gets more and more bizarre.... you still don't understand a strawman argument do you? Stop embarrassing yourself.

Ok.... I will try and help you. Strawman argument:-

PeteO:-  Everton are in a poor position because they let Gareth Barry go.

Hafnia (strawman response):-  oh great yeah.... let's have a team where the minimum age is 36 and they all get pissed up and steal taxis.

Moving on...  Gareth Barry - I was 100% behind him signing for us.  I was clear from the off that he would be a great signing and he was. BUT Gana Only looked good because he was next to Barry?  What about the games where he got man of the match next to Tom Davies? The 1-1 derby for example where he was excellent. No Gareth Barry there.... and no schneiderlein.

You did state that Rooney was a better DM than gana after BHA.... and most on here stated "let's see how Rooney does against a good midfield".... proof incoming.

[pete0]

18 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Every time you bring up strawman it gets more and more bizarre.... you still don't understand a strawman argument do you? Stop embarrassing yourself.

Ok.... I will try and help you. Strawman argument:-

PeteO:-  Everton are in a poor position because they let Gareth Barry go.

Hafnia (strawman response):-  oh great yeah.... let's have a team where the minimum age is 36 and they all get pissed up and steal taxis.

Moving on...  Gareth Barry - I was 100% behind him signing for us.  I was clear from the off that he would be a great signing and he was. BUT Gana Only looked good because he was next to Barry?  What about the games where he got man of the match next to Tom Davies? The 1-1 derby for example where he was excellent. No Gareth Barry there.... and no schneiderlein.

You did state that Rooney was a better DM than gana after BHA.... and most on here stated "let's see how Rooney does against a good midfield".... proof incoming.

Only thing I've got to be embarrassed about is bothering responding to you. After pulling teeth your big argument is one match from over a season ago. Great argument, Barry didn't play and he got a motm for running around. How does this explain why we get carved open every week now? 

Feel free to quote me. Just checked and as far as I can see I praise the midfield for being able to keep possession without Gana (as I always say Gana hides and makes it hard for us to move the ball forward, and if he does get the ball he goes backwards or takes too many touches killing the fluidity). Any how, how is this relevant to us missing Barry? 

[Hafnia]

5 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Only thing I've got to be embarrassed about is bothering responding to you. After pulling teeth your big argument is one match from over a season ago. Great argument, Barry didn't play and he got a motm for running around. How does this explain why we get carved open every week now? 

Feel free to quote me. Just checked and as far as I can see I praise the midfield for being able to keep possession without Gana (as I always say Gana hides and makes it hard for us to move the ball forward, and if he does get the ball he goes backwards or takes too many touches killing the fluidity). Any how, how is this relevant to us missing Barry? 

It was this season 1-1... holgate/firminho incident.... you really need to brush up on your facts. 

How is missing Gareth Barry relevant to allardyce more to the point?  Are you saying that if we had Gareth Barry in our side now we would look better?  He's finished - it's over. The ultimate professional has taken to getting pissed before games etc. 

You see your problem peteo is you try to be so different in order to try and prove that you seem to know more than others. Gana isn't the worst midfielder - nor is he the best midfielder. He's not the most exciting... He is a player who needs to play alongside someone who complements his game.

The issue isn't the fact that Gareth Barry is no longer that player but the fact that Morgan schneiderlein has been used instead.  Alongside Rooney and/or Davies gana is far better. 

[Bailey]

53 minutes ago, pete0 said:

He's nearly 40, he carried Gana last year, can't expect him to carry 10 more this.

He's only got 4 yellows compared to 10 last season albeit having played 2 games less. A lot of his yellows were covering for teammates. 

I don't think they would, at the start of the season I said Barry and Davies should be our starters as they're our best two. No comment on Barkley Klaassen as they are AMs. They're not the reason we're getting demolished through the middle every week. 

The midfield leaves huge gaps behind them. Rooney is at fault for giving the ball away easily or not having enough legs and then there's Schneiderlin the shithouse, but for the most part it's Gana as he's never goalside. 

You are missing the point Pete with your comments in bold. Barry is one the most booked Premier League player for a reason and isnt for the 12 months he spent playing alongside Gana.

He has consistently been booked a lot each season so your point regarding the amount of bookings is moot.

AMs do count because if you are up against another 3 central players in midfield, which you do most weeks in the Premier League, you will be outnumbered 3 v 2. AMs need to defend and keep their shape as much as any other player in the midfield. This is definitely the case for both Koeman and Allardyce.

The midfield does leave huge gaps behind them but your reasoning is wrong. The gaps show problems with the structure of the team. The midfield cant get close enough to the strikers for us to control possession and at the same time they cant get close enough to the defenders to protect them. Our CBs have made a habit of dropping deeper and deeper, the striker has stayed forward and the midfield are trying to cover too much ground, getting caught out of position. Gana probably does get the bum deal a lot because he is the only one with the energy and legs to try and get forward and try and get back. Its the same type of thing that got Barry caught out so much last season.

[pete0]

44 minutes ago, hafnia said:

It was this season 1-1... holgate/firminho incident.... you really need to brush up on your facts. 

How is missing Gareth Barry relevant to allardyce more to the point?  Are you saying that if we had Gareth Barry in our side now we would look better?  He's finished - it's over. The ultimate professional has taken to getting pissed before games etc. 

You see your problem peteo is you try to be so different in order to try and prove that you seem to know more than others. Gana isn't the worst midfielder - nor is he the best midfielder. He's not the most exciting... He is a player who needs to play alongside someone who complements his game.

The issue isn't the fact that Gareth Barry is no longer that player but the fact that Morgan schneiderlein has been used instead.  Alongside Rooney and/or Davies gana is far better. 

No quotes. Proof incoming indeed. 

You never stated what season. Facts? Motm gets given by many outlets hardly gonna trawl through all them. Pretty sure he's not been my motm for any game this season. Before you say bias, I've voted many times for Jags who I've always said isn't good enough. I'd like to say I'm fair, can you say the same? 

I'm saying the midfield Alladyce has been gifted is shite. Managers can't magically turn shit into footballers. Why has the midfield gone to pot? Only change I can see is Barry not being there (McCarthy was injured most of last season). Davies come in for Gana and we looked well better, so could argue Davies make a difference as well but he's tended to play the am position this season. One misdemeanour in 20 years, through the book at him. Don't see how that negates his performances for us. If he was in our side would be be as shite? No. As for being over the hill, he's played as much for WBA as he did for us. Any how, why is the midfield now giving away chances so easily? I say because Barry was important and done a fantastic job, without him Gana's positioning is exposed. You say.... Still waiting for a proper answer without the straw and irrelevant chat. 

Already covered this you absolute bore, I'm not arsed about knowing more than others. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean they're after attention. As far as I can see I'm pointing out the obvious, and with time I'm pretty sure most will come round to seeing the player I see. As for attention seeking please see the Haf thread, sorry I mean Lukaku thread. 

He's played with all 3 and there's no difference. Why does the midfield get demolished when Schneiderlin isn't there? It's no different, he's still not goalside and he's still giving away needless fouls and not showing for the ball. 

[pete0]

38 minutes ago, Bailey said:

You are missing the point Pete with your comments in bold. Barry is one the most booked Premier League player for a reason and isnt for the 12 months he spent playing alongside Gana.

He has consistently been booked a lot each season so your point regarding the amount of bookings is moot.

AMs do count because if you are up against another 3 central players in midfield, which you do most weeks in the Premier League, you will be outnumbered 3 v 2. AMs need to defend and keep their shape as much as any other player in the midfield. This is definitely the case for both Koeman and Allardyce.

The midfield does leave huge gaps behind them but your reasoning is wrong. The gaps show problems with the structure of the team. The midfield cant get close enough to the strikers for us to control possession and at the same time they cant get close enough to the defenders to protect them. Our CBs have made a habit of dropping deeper and deeper, the striker has stayed forward and the midfield are trying to cover too much ground, getting caught out of position. Gana probably does get the bum deal a lot because he is the only one with the energy and legs to try and get forward and try and get back. Its the same type of thing that got Barry caught out so much last season.

His average booking was one every 210 minutes before that his highest average was ever 280 minutes. I'd say that's quite a significant change. Gana is never in position and it costs him and his teammates a lot of bookings. It's embarrassing that a professional is less than school boy with his positioning. How many free kicks does he give away simply by not being goalside and then having to come in from behind?

Most teams play two cm and one DM. I don't see how the am can be responsible got the two behind them being caught out so easily. 

Gana barely moves forward. He stifles the attack not making runs to create holes. He's out of position as when they have the ball he runs to the ball without considering what's going on around him or instead of tracking his man. Often gets wrong side or leaves huge gaps. Makes it so easy for the opposition to get into our final third through the middle. In all my life I've not watched a team get done through middle as easy as us. 

[Shukes]

Guys guys.... let’s not turn this into another Gana thread. 

Hes so good, he has his own

[Hafnia]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

No quotes. Proof incoming indeed. 

You never stated what season. Facts? Motm gets given by many outlets hardly gonna trawl through all them. Pretty sure he's not been my motm for any game this season. Before you say bias, I've voted many times for Jags who I've always said isn't good enough. I'd like to say I'm fair, can you say the same? 

I'm saying the midfield Alladyce has been gifted is shite. Managers can't magically turn shit into footballers. Why has the midfield gone to pot? Only change I can see is Barry not being there (McCarthy was injured most of last season). Davies come in for Gana and we looked well better, so could argue Davies make a difference as well but he's tended to play the am position this season. One misdemeanour in 20 years, through the book at him. Don't see how that negates his performances for us. If he was in our side would be be as shite? No. As for being over the hill, he's played as much for WBA as he did for us. Any how, why is the midfield now giving away chances so easily? I say because Barry was important and done a fantastic job, without him Gana's positioning is exposed. You say.... Still waiting for a proper answer without the straw and irrelevant chat. 

Already covered this you absolute bore, I'm not arsed about knowing more than others. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean they're after attention. As far as I can see I'm pointing out the obvious, and with time I'm pretty sure most will come round to seeing the player I see. As for attention seeking please see the Haf thread, sorry I mean Lukaku thread. 

He's played with all 3 and there's no difference. Why does the midfield get demolished when Schneiderlin isn't there? It's no different, he's still not goalside and he's still giving away needless fouls and not showing for the ball. 

Seriously Pete....  if posting on a forum was wearing a t shirt you would be one of these 15 year old kids walking round with a Ramones t-shirt on. 

Secretly deep down inside you love Ed Sheeran like half your mates but you just wanna be that little bit smarter so you pretend to like a group you don't know fuck all about or like.... just to be smarter and relevant.

Your continued accusation of me using straw man arguments despite me CLEARLY  demonstrating what a strawman argument is ... (and if you had any understanding you would realise that I don't bother with that).  If I used strawman arguments I would be fine with being told that I do that.... just like I would if you more accuately called me a pompous condescending prick (which is far more accurate).... but your inability to not understand what it is you are stating just adds further proof to the fact that you will happily babble on about shit for the sake of being different. 

Back to San allardyce... apart from the fact that he lost world class Gareth Barry who would single handedly got us into top 6 despite having no full backs for all of the pre allardyce season has been SHIT.

His team selections are shit

His tactics are shit

His interviews are a disgrace

His treatment of the young lads is a disgrace

But it's all ganas fault apparently. 

 

 

 

[London Blue]

1 hour ago, pete0 said:

No quotes. Proof incoming indeed. 

You never stated what season. Facts? Motm gets given by many outlets hardly gonna trawl through all them. Pretty sure he's not been my motm for any game this season. Before you say bias, I've voted many times for Jags who I've always said isn't good enough. I'd like to say I'm fair, can you say the same? 

I'm saying the midfield Alladyce has been gifted is shite. Managers can't magically turn shit into footballers. Why has the midfield gone to pot? Only change I can see is Barry not being there (McCarthy was injured most of last season). Davies come in for Gana and we looked well better, so could argue Davies make a difference as well but he's tended to play the am position this season. One misdemeanour in 20 years, through the book at him. Don't see how that negates his performances for us. If he was in our side would be be as shite? No. As for being over the hill, he's played as much for WBA as he did for us. Any how, why is the midfield now giving away chances so easily? I say because Barry was important and done a fantastic job, without him Gana's positioning is exposed. You say.... Still waiting for a proper answer without the straw and irrelevant chat. 

Already covered this you absolute bore, I'm not arsed about knowing more than others. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean they're after attention. As far as I can see I'm pointing out the obvious, and with time I'm pretty sure most will come round to seeing the player I see. As for attention seeking please see the Haf thread, sorry I mean Lukaku thread. 

He's played with all 3 and there's no difference. Why does the midfield get demolished when Schneiderlin isn't there? It's no different, he's still not goalside and he's still giving away needless fouls and not showing for the ball. 

A midfield of Siggy, Davies, Gana with Morgan, Rooney, is pretty good and enough to be top 8.

[Cornish Steve]

8 hours ago, pete0 said:

He's [Lookman] played over 45 minutes twice from 10 games. Played no part in their big games and mostly only started because they were saving their big players for cup games. He's missed the big games completely Bayern and Dortmund. So the teams he's getting minus against are championship level. He'd have learned a lot more playing 90 and battling for the play offs with Derby. 

Which must be why Leipzig is trying to make his move permanent.

[Cornish Steve]

On 20/04/2018 at 09:40, Palfy said:

Blame Moshiri he's a fucking prick regardless of whether he's got money or not he can fuck off, because if he can't see the damage that fat cunt Allardyce is doing to this club then he's not a football man, so he can only be here to rape the club of money when the grounds built and the value of his shares rocket.

My old man always said never trust an Arab, mind you he was in the 2nd world war and they changed sides like changing their pants, but I'm beginning to get that feeling with Moshiri I don't trust him or his judgment.

Forgive me, but I must take you to task for your appalling comment, for several reasons:

1) Iranians are not Arabs (just a little fact-checking would have revealed this).

2) Moshiri is a British citizen, and I would suggest we give every citizen the same respect regardless of ethnic background.

3) My old man was very much a racist too, but that wouldn't justify me being one. He was wrong, and I told him as much.

Now I've got this off my chest, I hope we can move on and forget you ever wrote this.

[pete0]

54 minutes ago, hafnia said:

Seriously Pete....  if posting on a forum was wearing a t shirt you would be one of these 15 year old kids walking round with a Ramones t-shirt on. 

Secretly deep down inside you love Ed Sheeran like half your mates but you just wanna be that little bit smarter so you pretend to like a group you don't know fuck all about or like.... just to be smarter and relevant.

Your continued accusation of me using straw man arguments despite me CLEARLY  demonstrating what a strawman argument is ... (and if you had any understanding you would realise that I don't bother with that).  If I used strawman arguments I would be fine with being told that I do that.... just like I would if you more accuately called me a pompous condescending prick (which is far more accurate).... but your inability to not understand what it is you are stating just adds further proof to the fact that you will happily babble on about shit for the sake of being different. 

Back to San allardyce... apart from the fact that he lost world class Gareth Barry who would single handedly got us into top 6 despite having no full backs for all of the pre allardyce season has been SHIT.

His team selections are shit

His tactics are shit

His interviews are a disgrace

His treatment of the young lads is a disgrace

But it's all ganas fault apparently. 

 

 

 

Ramones have one great song, which is one more than Ed Sheeren (although he is good at writing pop). You just remind me of Theresa May, you made up a fact and that you will quote me on it... Yet no action. 

Now you're strawmanning about strawmanning. Incredible. Still awaiting your argument, what you're basing your opinion on. So why are the central midfield getting done like kippers week in week out? If not Gana/Barry, what has changed? Why are we the easiest team in the league to attack? 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, London Blue said:

A midfield of Siggy, Davies, Gana with Morgan, Rooney, is pretty good and enough to be top 8.

I'm talking centre mids so wouldn't include Sigurdssen. 

We've been through three managers and struggling to get top 8. Main reason we're top half is thanks to Pickford and freak goals from an outcast. 

[Bailey]

7 minutes ago, pete0 said:

I'm talking centre mids so wouldn't include Sigurdssen. 

We've been through three managers and struggling to get top 8. Main reason we're top half is thanks to Pickford and freak goals from an outcast. 

He has played in central midfield though.

[Hafnia]

19 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Ramones have one great song, which is one more than Ed Sheeren (although he is good at writing pop). You just remind me of Theresa May, you made up a fact and that you will quote me on it... Yet no action. 

Now you're strawmanning about strawmanning. Incredible. Still awaiting your argument, what you're basing your opinion on. So why are the central midfield getting done like kippers week in week out? If not Gana/Barry, what has changed? Why are we the easiest team in the league to attack? 

What is strawmannning about strawmannning.  I desperately need you to explain this one to me.

 

[Makis]

24 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Now you're strawmanning about strawmanning. 

You seriously need to check what a strawman argument is.

[MikeO]

3 minutes ago, Makis said:

You seriously need to check what a strawman argument is.

 

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, Makis said:

You seriously need to check what a strawman argument is.

I've given him a clear example on several occasions.

It reminds me of an ex colleague who had a place as a team leader.....  she challenged me to be more pacific.  I corrected her "it's specific"..... to which she said don't be so predantic.... to which I replied "it's pedantic".

 

Comedy gold.

 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Bailey said:

He has played in central midfield though.

Only behind the striker as an attacking midfielder. 

[pete0]

1 hour ago, Makis said:

You seriously need to check what a strawman argument is.

It's a poster who chats shit and makes up facts and never backs them up. Still waiting for the Rooney is better than Gana stuff I apparently said. 

[pete0]

56 minutes ago, hafnia said:

I've given him a clear example on several occasions.

It reminds me of an ex colleague who had a place as a team leader.....  she challenged me to be more pacific.  I corrected her "it's specific"..... to which she said don't be so predantic.... to which I replied "it's pedantic".

 

Comedy gold.

 

Clear example? One motm against Liverpool really explains why we concede so many changes through the middle... 

[Hafnia]

13 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Clear example? One motm against Liverpool really explains why we concede so many changes through the middle... 

I repeat.  Can you tell me what strawmannnng about strawmannnng is. 

Btw gana has had a few motm games this season.... no where near as many as last year but. .. yeah strawmannnng about strawmannnng please...

[Bailey]

37 minutes ago, pete0 said:

Only behind the striker as an attacking midfielder. 

No he has definitely played as a CM from the start of one game and also been dropped back into that role late in games too. All Allardyce I think too.

35 minutes ago, pete0 said:

It's a poster who chats shit and makes up facts and never backs them up. Still waiting for the Rooney is better than Gana stuff I apparently said. 

I'm pretty sure that's not it, but Ill leave that to someone else.

[MikeO]

48 minutes ago, Bailey said:

I'm pretty sure that's not it, but Ill leave that to someone else.

 

[London Blue]

18 minutes ago, MikeO said:

 

The "Trump" maxim.

[pete0]

2 hours ago, Bailey said:

No he has definitely played as a CM from the start of one game and also been dropped back into that role late in games too. All Allardyce I think too.

I'm pretty sure that's not it, but Ill leave that to someone else.

According to transfermarkt he's only played there once, against Arsenal. 

[Shukes]

8 hours ago, pete0 said:

According to transfermarkt he's only played there once, against Arsenal. 

Don’t be fooled into following stats, your own eyes will tell you more

[Shukes]

Was a joke by the way!

[Paddock]

16 hours ago, Cornish Steve said:

would

 

16 hours ago, pete0 said:

I'm talking centre mids so wouldn't include Sigurdssen. 

We've been through three managers and struggling to get top 8. Main reason we're top half is thanks to Pickford and freak goals from an outcast. 

Because we’ve had no full backs or striker to hold the ball up for almost a full season. It’s not hard to understand Pete. It’s no coincidence we’ve stopped getting battered since Tosun, Coleman and Baines have bedded back in. It’s fuck all to do with the central modfield pairing- they’ve been chopped and changed all season and left exposed by having one full back who isn’t good enough to play right back playing left back and a young lad who’s not good enough for prem football playing right back and the striker is that isolated it just keeps coming back at us.

[Romey 1878]

21 hours ago, Blueblood78 said:

If i was sam (& not at any point am i saying i resemble him in anyway as for 1 id need to be quite of few stone heavier) & i had any ounce of pride or point to prove. Because we are safe & for the next 4 games y doesnt he just tell the lads to go out & play with a bit of freedom. Give the players who lok like hav a bit of motivation & eagerness in training a run out & see wat happens.Better than goin for 0-0 draw. Roll on 5-0 win against newcastle?

He basically said this is what would happen when we reached 40 points, and safety. It hasn't though - we're still treated to the same negative tactics, the same negative subs, the same writing off our chances before a ball has even been kicked.